#massacregate

meanwhile, time is frozen in the room since the beginning of the scene till the very end

in case you question whether clock had shown any other time: yes, it had in any different scene.

here I could assume that they speak only for a few minutes, and time not being changed that much is not a big deal but… it was going on for sixteen! fucking minutes. yes, including the parts with Nancy which, though, was technically still his continuous monologue to Eleven. And even w/o those parts, it’s quite long and the feeling of the scene doesn’t give “it’s been just a minute”.

1983

The room where this gate was opened in s1 looks very different but this shot with El in front of the red rift tags the association along. And I don’t fully get it. Ig when I binge-watched for the first time, I thought this was shown as a revelation how the first gate was opened. But the massacre happened four years earlier. Apparently, I had also forgotten that 1x06 showed the first gate. Or was this one the first? (Also it was closed right away.)

And Henry ended up in the Abyss, but the UD (was created and) froze in 1983. (👈 And this is revealed in the same episode, 4x07, where the massacre happens, so they couldn’t just forget anything about it, it’s connected mythology.) So…

?

?

One more reason to question truthfulness of “memories” El live through in Nina is her endless dialogues with One. I understand that while she’s in the memory, she keeps her identity (s4!El), but the memories that we see in fact happen in 1979, which was four years before we met s1!El, this girl:

who barely could speak and understand concepts of social interactions; however, what we see in Nina contradicts earlier canonical events, as kids bully her, threaten, and in general communicate and interact, which also should be questioned for the same reasons: if the Lab wanted to keep their “pets” at the certain level of social adjustment, they wouldn’t let them know how to be social in the first place, — however, there is a thing that right away contradicts my observation, which is… the “duels” that obviously can affect relationships within their group, making kids hostile to each other, which also seemed quite deliberate.

But my point still stands, they do seem way more social with each other than the way Eleven was portrayed in s1 (and I remind you once again, this so called memory takes place FOUR years before season one!), and that’s either a massive plot hole, or (hopefully) it indicates that these are no actual memories, but fabricated ones, having nothing to do with the reality as it was, brought there to make El believe that what she sees is (was) true. But who knows, right… as I see it, the tone of communication within a group seems to be not that easy to depict less social than it was shown, but at the same time it looks too social anyway, so Idek… but what I do know is that I don’t believe what I see.

Especially! given all these interactions with One regarding Papa or, of course, the climatic one where he shares complicated concepts about his perspective, his story, even his suggestion to her, which s1!Eleven (1979!Eleven+4 years) would never even understand. It’s stated that she was raised as a weapon (object), but he communicates with her as with an equal, which is not just misleading but impossible for the eight year old wild girl she was. Still mostly an object and barely a human even when she was already twelve.

nah, this shit can’t be serious

subtract four years and you’ll get a reshaper of the world in question — the girl from 1979 who supposedly stood and listened to the whole speech he held, grasping all the nuances, right

This “no” is charged with understanding of the situation and that Henry is evil. But the reply belongs to s4!El, not to pre-s1!El. Mb it’s a plot hole ofc, but I can’t ignore it since I’ve noticed it:/