my thoughts are based upon channeling Apollo though fumes and my asks are always open for business /// my posts are in no way an analysis or even a proper research, just my notes
ao3-
characters
henry
Henry is not Nietzsche’s übermensch , henry in love , dirty Missouri past , the not so mysterious guy , having a secret relationship with henry , Henry’s manipulation (romantic) , Henry’s obsession with death , why is henry attractive?, Henry and camilla is Henry a gentleman; why homer? why camilla?
charles
the twins
camilla
why camilla enjoyed her relationship with charles, is she a misogynist (?) , the twins , Henry and Camilla
richie (dick)
Richard and his violence
thoughts
beauty is terror (?) , honest thoughts medieval beauty
commentary , bunny and Henry , tsh and employment hypocrisy in tsh
posts I love
charles, done by someone who shouldn’t be allowed to talk about his backside but gets him SO RIGHT, henry and immobility same dude, bunny the Madonna and the whore
ps Just to clarify, my posts are never aimed at any individual or specific interpretation — I like exploring ambiguity in literature and I enjoy discussing multiple possible perspectives. My posts are never aimed at proving one reading is ‘correct’ let alone moral. Everyone’s welcome to enjoy the book in the way that resonates with them.
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Rare aesthetic: having date night in your hotel room then your insane and abusive brother bursts through the door to kill your boyfriend who then shoots himself in front of you
Girl I'm sorry but your "comeback" analysis is such a stretch that it starts from out of your ass and ends in Oz.
Camilla was not the symbol of purity or order. She was messy, her life was messy, engaging with her was inherently complicated because of Charles. Richard romanticized her but Henry knew exactly what she was like. She trusted him implicitly and spent more time with him. This whole idea of Henry seeing Camilla as a piece of aesthetic as well not only cheapens their relationship, but is logically impossible. Henry was the one she trusted with all the fucked up things in her life, he witnessed everything firsthand. At worst, he might've thought she was fragile and needed protection. But that would actually be true about her in the situation itself, he respected Camilla's likeness with himself too much to think of her to be fragile and weak as a person. She's the one who was more like Henry and went down with him to check if Bunny was dead and potentially finish the job.
Henry used the fear he held over Charles from the murder to finally extract Camilla from him and his abuse because Charles was deranged in a very possessive and violent way about Camilla even before the whole thing went down. This could be seen as him considering himself the hero in the story. Less "The order being restored" and more "the Perseus rescue". He was in excellent spirits, sleeping with her in the hotel, etc. Also, he did act like a romantic towards Camilla. It negates his apparent rigid view you described.
I understand that the book is very aesthetic even if people deny falling for it with foam at their mouths and that it's tempting to find ancient Greek parallels in everything but sometimes it doesn't work. Or at least, your points in this case came off as weak and not applicable. I agree with what you said about Homer and Nolan's movie, and the father/dad parallels. But it doesn't go with "why did he love Camilla?". At least not in the way you explained it. Maybe it could work more with Julian and Henry from a slightly different angle.
That is not to say you can't post whatever you want. Tumblr is all about silly little rants. It's still better than the shitposts Secret History tags are filled with. Sorry if this ask is going to sound mean. I don't mean to be mean, I just found the post funny and confusing and I love discussions.
I like discussions too and while I do think of this ask a substantive critique, that doesn’t take away the fact it’s wrapped in unnecessarily abrasive rhetoric.
However you do have offered enough in it to think about —and while I dont accept its conclusions let alone your tone— let’s humour this definitely not insulting ask of yours.
Your point is valid and based on the novel-yes.
Henry rescues Camilla, sleeps with her, spends money on her, and tries to free her from Charles.
I do not deny that their romantic relationship is canon. It is.
It is the conclusion we reach however where we disagree.
Your conclusion is that Henry does those things and therefore, he loves her.
What I’m saying is that those actions don’t, by themselves, convince me that Henry experiences love in the way most readers assume.
Of course the novel gives us evidence that Henry and Camilla have a romantic relationship. Whether that relationship is emotionally deep, psychologically healthy, or reciprocal is much murkier.
Based on the novel
Henry’s primary emotional attachment arguably is Julian. Julian’s approval shapes his worldview more than anyone else’s.
Henry is capable of compartmentalizing horrific acts. Planning Bunny’s murder with remarkable composure tells us something about how he processes morality.
His emotional life is extremely inaccessible. We almost never see him articulate vulnerability.
His suicide is difficult to reconcile with a straightforwardly romantic reading. He shoots himself in front of the group—including Camilla. Some readers see this as self-sacrifice. Others see it as a final act of control. The text supports debate.
Henry is a remarkably emotionally opaque character and based on all that I’m not persuaded that Henry’s feelings for Camilla resemble the emotionally intimate, psychologically transparent love many readers attribute to him.
I cannot see him a gentleman,
As to: Henry knew exactly what she was like.
That’s a fair point but knowing someone deeply and relating to them through an idealized framework aren’t mutually exclusive. People often understand others intimately while still fitting them into a worldview or narrative.
Henry projects into Camilla simply because we all project into other people. Projecting into others isn’t necessary bad or immoral and we don’t have to make it in order to show henry’s emotional superiority to Richard’s.
And also dear anon…you open your message by calling my opinion a stretch that starts —allegedly— from my ass and ends in oz and then conclude by calling it confusing and funny but apparently you have no desire to come across as… mean. That’s an ambitious goal I won’t lie. Hope it worked out for you.
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Henry loves Homer but why? Yes he is a classics student but why not chose Thucydides for example with his gorgeous syntax? What is in Homer’s epics worth loving for Henry?
It’s a sentiment I never quite understood.
In school we studied Homer two years in a row first with iliad and odyssey followed by Helen (Euripides’s fanfiction on Homer) and yet the story has always felt emotionally sterile and mildly discomforting when it came to its relationships especially the Odysseus/Penelope love. I never understood it, I never felt the love that supposedly had Odysseus fight with gods and waves to return back to. And the same emotions I felt when it comes to Henry/Camilla.
And yet Henry LOVED Homer. Apparently he loved Camilla too.
I found the reason why while counting the atrocities in Christopher Nolan’s new Odyssey, specifically the scene when they had Telemachus call Odysseus “dad”. “Dad” not “father”. A sad directional choice that contradicts the very system of morality Homer’s Greece had.
archaic Greek epics are deeply role-oriented worlds.
Odysseus is a
father
husband
king
host
warrior.
Penelope is
a queen
mother
wife
household preserver
lineage protector.
And in Homeric logic, role was identity. To fulfil your role excellently was meaning.
We often interpret their romance as proof of devoted soulmates, of romantic longing, emotional intimacy.
Odysseus had everything taken and given to him and yet all was for him a distraction from his only goal and desire to return home. To Penelope.
However the emotional core isn’t necessarily:
“I miss you specifically as an emotionally fulfilling individual and will do everything to return to you”
but mostly something like
“the order of the world is broken until rightful roles are restarted”
His absence from home was an and if he wouldn’t return it’d be a violation to his world order and a personal failing to his roles as king/husband/father.
It all sounds utterly unromantic to modern audience because modern culture fetishises authenticity and emotional individuality.
We want “dad” not “father”. We want intimacy over structure. We want Odysseus to “long” for Penelope not the place she occupied in his life where he’s a king/father/husband.
We search for emotional reciprocity, phycological intimacy and individuality beyond function.
“Dad” = emotional familiarity, personal closeness, private affection.
Same relationship. Different metaphysics. And which one does Henry lean towards? Which one does he LOVE? The one that keeps his hands clean from any emotional vulnerability.
Now that is not to say that there is no emotion in the epics. There is and plenty of it. Odysseus weeps for Penelope. Penelope cries herself to sleep. Hector embraces Astyanax. The emotions are real—they’re just expressed through the framework of duty rather than replacing it. Homer doesn’t separate the individual from the role.
Henry seems fascinated by systems where identity is predetermined and morality is structural rather than emotional. He admires civilizations where your obligations tell you who you are, because then you never have to ask the terrifying modern question: What do I actually feel?
Camilla, to Henry, often occupies a similar position. She isn’t simply “Camilla.” She’s beauty, order, permanence, purity—almost an idea rather than an emotionally negotiated relationship. Loving her resembles loving Homer: it’s admiration for something perfectly ordered and aesthetically complete.
Modern audiences instinctively translate that into intimacy. We want “dad,” not “father.” We want Odysseus to miss Penelope because she is Penelope, not because without her he cannot be husband, king, or master of Ithaca.
Henry never seems interested in that translation.
He doesn’t seek relationships that demand emotional vulnerability. He gravitates toward structures that make vulnerability unnecessary.
So why be first a man or a lover when you can be a role?
(((((and in the book regarding Henry outing himself
“It wasn’t from desperation that he did it. Nor, I think, was it fear. The business with Julian was heavy on his mind; it had impressed him deeply. I think he felt the need to make a noble gesture, something to prove to us and to himself that it was in fact possible to put those high cold principles which Julian had taught us to use. Duty, piety, loyalty, sacrifice”))))))))))
Oh Bunny how you would’ve loved being a stay at home wife but we know he would suck at being one because that mf does not clean.
So instead he tells Henry to hire a cleaner for him (cus he’s definitely not paying for one himself) which would then cause henry to go up to Richard and ask him if can clean Bunny place up which Richard agree to do it to get good Henry points.
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whenever i remember ‘the secret history’ is set in the 1980s, i like to think of camilla having a blazer with massive shoulder pads, richard getting a mullet (which very quickly is cut off when he goes to hampden), and bunny having the most gaudy Hawaiian shirts.
Francis' biggest flaw is his attachment to comfort above all else. he doesn't have to get married. he could rebel by letting his family cut him off, get a job (and it's the 80s, a basic education could get you a livable wage back then) and support himself, Richard even suggests it, but he is ultimately unwilling to abandon his class bound comforts for true happiness, making him as trapped by his own actions (or in this case lack of action) as the rest of the group
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DARE I SAAAYYY this is going off purely charles being described as the most attractive of the group and my yearning for yuri, but: judy flirting with camilla in freshman year thinking she’s charles ! and only realizing when camilla speaks ! and judy going all red and going “oh no i thought you were—“ and camilla (who is also described to be jealous) getting irritated and asking her what she wants with charles. cue enemies to lovers yuri DOES THIS MAKE SENSE