long post ahead n im trying to phrase this in a way that sounds agreeable and not absolutely deranged but like i have a hard time w the way ppl apply modern perceptions of consent and the modern age of consent to historical societies, relationships n individuals. which like, dont get me wrong, the age of consent exists for a reason and dont fuck minors, but it does get trickier when ur talking abt ppl who had v different views of consent n who can consent than we do today yknow. like re: the hadrian/antinous post - there r some cases where i dont think labeling historical ppl as "pedophiles" is v useful or even accurate. like in those societies a 15-17 y/o, even if not considered a "fully grown" adult, was considered an individual who could consent to sex with who we consider "legal" adults in a way a 10 y/o couldnt. esp like since if ppl decided to raise the age of consent/adulthood to 21 tomorrow, millions upon millions of ppl would instantly become pedophiles, victims of pedophilia, child brides and child soldiers. even tho in our perception, a 18-21 y/o is an adult who can consent to sex, who can get married and join the army.
if ur talking abt someone who lived centuries ago who married a 16 y/o girl when he was 30 its not rly helpful or even appropriate to label him a pedo bc in that society, a 16 y/o was considered a woman at a marrying age. esp since in this scenario the fact that he is a man and she is a woman, that he is her husband and she is his wife, that he owns her and she is his property, that his consent matters and hers doesnt, is by far a larger power imbalance in the relationship than the fact shes considered a minor by our modern consent laws. like a lot of times when ppl talk abt historical relationships they like to focus on the fact that the younger partner is a few months or years from being considered a legal adult by our modern laws, when different power imbalances like gender, class, race, ethnicity, status, etc. were far more influential on the nature of said relationships.
like esp considering the hadrian/antinous debacle, the fact that antinous was technically "underage" (16-17) when they became lovers, but was still considered a partner thats able to consent within the culture, is the major thing ppl have an issue w w their relationship n not the fact that idk. antinous was from a region that was actively occupied by the roman empire n hadrian was literally the roman emperor the most powerful man in the empire that was actively occupying it. that there r sources that claim that antinous was of a far lower class, even some sources that speculate that he was enslaved. i said this in a different post but its so jarring to me to see how detached many westerners r from the concept of war n occupation that they hold sexual violence to a completely different standard than imperialist violence or general war related violence to such a degree that their main issue w The Butcher Of Judea is that he was in an intimate relationship w a teenager who was absolutely considered a sexual partner capable of consent within the societal context! but whatever
rly rly good addition ty !
[ID: tags by tumblr user dieinct: #this is true but i also want to gently push back against the idea that because teens could consent to sex that we shouldn't discuss the fact #that e.g. their ability to consent was contingent on fitting into a cultural idea/category that did to a certain extent dehumanize them. #i.e. teen boys could consent to sex which positioned them as someone their older partners had power over. #like this is basically what you said about early marriage. but i do think it's relevant that there's absolutely not a whisper of equality #between them anywhere and that people doing work on male homosociality spend much of their career grasping at literary straws #bc homosexuality had an inherent power imbalance within it. that is less to do with AGE tho age is a factor. #and much more to do with. how masculinities were constructed and that masc'y in gay dynamics required the subjugation of a younger partner. #or an enslaved partner etc etc etc. like this absolutely isn't about the AGE of consent except insofar - as you mention! - age becomes #something of a proxy for the actual societal imbalance around power. that definitely does still exist. #anyway. good post op. /end ID]
