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I will say, good on Millie for daring to so publicly disagree with the duffers about her character. she really said, "âď¸ um actually, will and kali are the people that most understand el so jot that down"
started rewatching stranger things so i can properly rewrite s5 in my fanfic that has no queer baiting, as few plot holes as i can manage, and an actually good ending. any requests about things i should add that people wish were in s5?
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Concept idea that's been rolling around in my head for a few days. Someone else can use. If ya want.
What if when Vecna caught Will, Will woke up different again. Like last time, Vecna/MF have a hard time pretending to be normal so I think the team would notice right away.
Meaning he would wait until he was alone to slip away from them and out of the radio tower.
Joyce and Mike would go downstairs to greet Hopper, El and Kali and they'd come back up and somehow he's gone. Big WTF moment. Everyone else agrees to search around quickly and El decidedly goes in search of him in her mind. Needless to say, the concern grows when she can't seem to get a hold of him and he keeps slipping away.
El rushes to tell the others which will lead to them going to the bath at the cabin. She wastes no time getting ready.
Unbeknownst to them, Will is also heading to the hospital for Max. Will just strolls in there, eyes focused right past the receptionist who kicks up a fuss. She has to call security over the intercom. Security is in the middle of dealing with Robin when they hear it. Will just so happens to turn the corner right then.
At first, Robin is relieved. Oh, Will woke up! But... something is off. He keeps on walking even as the guards try and stop him. One of the guards lay a hand on him and almost immediately, the guys neck is twisted and he falls to the floor. Dead.
The other guard, freaked out, moves to grab his firearm (or whatever weapon he may be carrying) but it's too late, the same thing happens to him. Maybe even worse.
Robin and Vickie are stunned to silence, staring at the dead guys on the floor. Robin is too scared to even look at Will. Is she next? Is Will gonna kill them? What is going on?
When she finally looks up, Will is gone. Rather, not gone, but well away towards the elevator and the doors are closing. She connects the dots, she's not sure how she knows but he's DEFINITELY going after Max!
It's a race to Max's room. Unlike with the demodogs, they can't warn Lucas over the intercoms. There's no time to make a phone call. She has to run up the stairs and beat him to Max's room.
Will makes it to Max's floor, but I feel Will would be fighting back. For a moment after he steps out of the hallway, Will makes a big effort to resist. There aren't many people around but if there were, Will would be seen grabbing his head and screaming. Possibly blood flowing out of his nose.
Unfortunately, this round Vecna wins. Will continues down the hallway but not as steadfast as before. He makes it to Max's room, prepared to strike but... she's not there.
Inside, Will is so relieved it gives him strength to fight back again. Another battle ensues. Will's ears start to bleed from the effort. Unfortunately, Vecna wins the second round as well but not as easily.
He hears a door slam in the distance and goes to follow.
It was the stairwell. Lucas is carrying Max on his back as they rush as fast as they can down the stairs with her body. Vickie is explaining that they need to go all the way to the bottom and escape out the back to employee parking.
Above them, they hear the stairwell door open and slam shut. Heavy footsteps and labored breathing follow. They can even see a hand holding the railing on the way down. Will's hand. I feel like I've seen a scene like this from a movie but not sure what.
Anyway, they rush even further, deciding to abandon the stairs and exit on a random floor. Surely Will won't be able to guess which one. They go to the elevator. Pretty sure there's only 1 elevator per elevator shaft so he won't be able to get on with them or anything. Unfortunately, he'd be able to see where they're going/went if he also goes to that elevator and looks at the buttons or numbers.
Back in the tub, El is searching in the darkness, looking for Will. She finds him in an expected place. He's in front of the elevator, waiting and waiting for his turn. El calls out to him, but he doesn't answer. When she gets up closer, she can truly see his condition. Bleeding nose and bleeding ears at this point, eyes straight forward and unfocused.
She shakes him, trying to snap him out of whatever trance he's in, but it doesn't work. She informs everyone back at the cabin what is going on. They offer suggestions with no luck.
But eventually, Will does finally say something.
"Stop me." and "Max."
The situation with Will's trance, disappearing, his location and his words finally make sense. She relays this to the others. I guess Hopper and Mike decide to go to the hospital to help via the hearse. Joyce and Kali stay behind with El.
"Show me." El says.
Anyway, the team at the hospital make it to the basement and try to open the doors out to the back, but for some reason it's locked or blocked off.
Crazily enough, the doors to the basement fly open. It's Will, looking even worse for wear, how many internal battles happened between the last one and now? Who can say.
Robin, Vickie and Lucas quickly hide. Their hiding spot is not very hidden given Lucas is playing Running Up That Hill and Will isn't a dumb demodog. They all sit there, panicking and gulping as Will's footsteps draw near.
Inevitably, Will walks up right to them as they cower. Lucas tries to look tough but at the sight of one of his best friends covered in and dripping from his eyes, nose and ears, he's shaken.
Will speaks, it is his voice but clearly something or someone else speaks underneath.
"Found you." he says simply, like this has all been a game of hide and seek.
As Will slowly raises a shaky hand towards them just as Lucas tenses up to do something rash. Who knows what Lucas plans to do, but it'd be suicide to even try, but he WILL try.
Before any blows can be exchanged, another internal battle ensues. More head grabbing. More Will screaming and stumbling around much to their confusion.
I can't really envision what's going on in Will's head during these battles. Maybe it's still tied up with Vecna over him like we saw in the show.
In that moment, El appears behind him. She immediately pulls him off and away from Will, throwing him across the library. In real life, Will suddenly collapses to the ground, back in the trance he was in when Lucas and Robin saw him last. All of them are too concerned to approach him yet in case it's a trick.
El gets to Will to check on him, but he doesn't wake up.
Vecna gets up and returns. It seems like a mini showdown is about to occur, but Vecna decides it's not worth it and leaves.
In the aftermath of this event, I think it'd take a little longer for Will to wake after all that stress. Hopper and Mike would arrive to help them evacuate the hospital.
I have some thoughts that from here, Will and El would be able to use this to venture into Vecna's mind and help Max and Holly (and the other 100 kids)
Robin pays attention to other people's behaviors and personalities, so she mentally picks out music she thinks they'd enjoy. Especially since she's a dj now.
Genuinely, we're all here because we like this show, we like theorising and we like byler.
Stop making fun of people for thinking the Duffers are good writer, that the documentary is fake and for believing that something is coming.
Stop making fun of people for thinking the Duffers are bad writers, that the documentary is real and for believing that nothing is coming.
And please please please stop talking down on people, insulting the byler community and acting like you are the only person who "gets it". There is no obvious right way to interpret this.
It's not that difficult and some humility would be nice.
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Anya is live and ready to show you everything. Watch her strip, dance, and perform exclusive shows just for you. Interact in real-time and make your fantasies come true.
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ok here is a massive post of all the evidence iâve seen for conformitygate on tiktok, twt, tumblr, etc. maybe itâs insane but remember this is just for fun!! lmk if i missed anything :)
interviews/promo
millie said in an interview that the finale would be meta, like a play within a play; we havenât seen that yetÂ
st twitter posted âvecna WILL payâ after the finale was released. someone asked why they used future tense and they replied âđŤ˘â
wsqk posted that volume 3 is lost
crossword was posted with the words waterfall, goodbye, dragons, believe, and dungeons, all around âgraduationâ. last letters spell out âlenses,â see below about the graduates in sunglassesÂ
countless cast and crew members said the painting would be addressed and it wasnâtÂ
the duffers were advertising this huge plot twist in the finale and there wasnât oneÂ
wsqk hinted at sm scenes that didnât happenÂ
the duffers said we would find out how the bolt on the byers door unlocked in s1 but we never didÂ
on twitter, netflix posted like the title screen for every episode and then made a blank post after ep8
lines/quotes
âyour memory of what happened might be foggy, confusedâ
âno wonder everyone was so clueless, itâs a tranceâ
âi donât believe in coincidences. not anymoreâ
âitâs like thereâs a missing of the puzzle. a big piece.â âyeah well the pieces are in vecnaâs mind!â (mike sees an incomplete rainbow puzzle in the hospital, he needs to find this piece of himself)
âis this real? is vecna messing with us again?â
âthis makes no goddamn sense!â
âi got so turned around i actually ended up right back at the beginningâ (max in vecnaâs memories) the epilogue is the same scene as the beginning of the showÂ
âeverything you see, none of it is real!â
âthatâs it? comfort and happiness? could you be more trite?â this is how the duffers ended their show. theyâre calling their own ending trite. itâs not the real endingÂ
âthis isnât like one of your campaigns, you donât get to write the endingâ then the epilogue is mike doing literally thatÂ
scene details
small details change; max told holly this is a sign theyâre in henryâs mind
door handle in the basement is on the other side in the epilogue than it was in the first episodeÂ
guy filming graduation is in a shirt that says duffers, the duffers are filming us
in the credits, âJK95â is written. just kidding, episode 9 season 5
steve calls derek âthomasâ in the epilogue baseball game. he should know derekâs name. this is a false memoryÂ
vecna took 12 kids and exactly 12 graduating students are wearing sunglasses; this may be covering their eyes in a trance or showing that they canât actually see whatâs going onÂ
on her journey, el is in a blue jacket with a yellow backpack facing a rainbowÂ
the electricity dial changed from gray to red, like how the carousel on the playground changed from yellow to gray, itâs a sign of being in vecnaâs memoriesÂ
at graduation, everyoneâs hands are positioned like vecnaâs, and how billyâs were positioned when he was possessedÂ
in his graduation speech, dustin yells about screwing conformity but the show ends with literally everyone conforming. nancy looks like her mom, mike looks like his dad, max gets angry in dnd and breaks things like billy would, will is in a leather jacket like lonnie and smoking like joyce, etc. they all look like their parents that vecna went to school with. he had clearer images of their parents than them so thatâs how they all look in the epilogueÂ
a board game called whatzit is seen in the wheelersâ basement AND hopâs cabin. vecna is still there Â
heroes has played twice before in the show; when they found wills body and thought he was dead and when they thought hopper was dead. heroes plays again in the credits. it always plays at a fakeout death. vecna didnât really dieÂ
someone is holding up a blank poster at graduationÂ
background characters at enzoâs are watching us, the audienceÂ
in their campaign with eddie, they thought theyâd killed vecna but they really hadnâtÂ
orange is the schools color when henry went there, but it no longer is. however everyoneâs graduation robes are orange. in nancyâs spinoff book it explicitly talks about her graduating in green robes, but vecna would only remember it as orangeÂ
in the epilogue, the shot outside the wheelers house of the sprinkler is the exact same as in s1. scenes are being reused, vecnaâs making up memories from what he hasÂ
in the wsqk, the floor looks just like the chess board that el and henry played on. henry is playing them all like chess pieces
robin describes hawkins we being different than she remembers in the epilogueÂ
robins style completely changes in the epilogue. she doesnât even look like herself
nancy drops out of emerson, her lifelong dream?Â
henry breaking the fourth wall at the dining table like weâre the children in his mindÂ
never revealed the significance of november 6
in the epilogue gay bar, lights are flickering behind will.Â
why do jonathan nancy robin and steve have their whole epilogue scene? that was never really a friend group. but vecna might assume it was because they were all the same yearÂ
there is a tick of vecnaâs clock then a heartbeat sound before mike hallucinates being in elâs mindÂ
max literally could not have graduated with them
in his coming out scene, will says he likes milkshakes at melvalds but they only had those in vecnaâs time. and will says he likes getting lost in the woods. no?? thatâs his trauma???
bts not matching up with actual s5, meaning thereâs more scenes we havenât sceneÂ
in a bts shot of joyce at enzoâs sheâs wearing a completely different outfit than she is in the finale that we see. this outfit is joyceâs 80s style so it likely wasnât just winona out of costumeÂ
on instagram, noah posted a photo of the dnd binders lined up in a different order than they were in the epilogue. in this order, the letters line up to spell âx a lie,â dimension x is a lie
bts shot of mike giving will the âfor willâ mixtape that there was sm merch for but it was never in the show, as well as the letter that ends in âlove mikeâÂ
in a bts shot of will in the gay bar, he has a completely different hairstyle and he has an earringÂ
they announced a soundtrack that included many songs that were never played, like âjust like heavenâ and âbicycle raceâ
dnd lore
in the credits, will is listed as an illusionist, not a sorcerer. the wearer of the eye of vecna can see through illusions. will is possessed and vecna is casting illusions through him.Â
this makes will the eye of vecna. mikes hand is twitching in many shots which could make him the hand of vecna. the holders of the eye and hand are deeply connected, like mike and willÂ
henry is missing an eye when he first arrived in dimension x and he is shot in the hand as a child. the eye and hand of vecna are both significant in dnd, so clearly this was intentional but is never addressed Â
a false hydra is a monster in dnd that convinces its victims of false memories, and that things that never happened actually did. if mike is its victim, this could explain everything off in the finale and his misguided theory about elâs survival. we need another ep to address thisÂ
when you cut off a false hydraâs head, two grow back, and this hurts the dungeon master (mike) the most. joyce cut off vecnas head and mike suffered the most in the epilogue
âif someone known to the target is killed by the false hydra, the target may believe that their deceased acquaintance had merely gone on a journey somewhere far awayâ this is exactly what mike imagines for el, making him the targetÂ
the false hydra was the monster in wills paintingÂ
mikes campaign theory
season 5 mirrors mikeâs DND campaign from season 1, which dustin explicitly called full of plot holes and with a confusing ending. the duffers are acknowledging that s5 is full of plot holes and had a confusing endingÂ
in s1, mike tells karen theyâd been playing for 10 hours then asks for 20 more minutes. season 5 was 10 hours and 20 minutes. this cannot be a coincidence because on 1/1/26, netflix extended runtimes of all vol1 episodes by 3 minutes SO THAT the season would be exactly 10hr20m Â
the audience is mike who is vecnaâd
mike is the only one looking at us in promo posters
stranger things insta story said âto our fans, youâre the heartâÂ
lucas says to mike âis this real? is vecna messing with us again? this makes no senseâ
robin, lucas, and mike are talking about how vecnaâs victims are all in a tranceÂ
lucas is fans who figured out the twist, mike is us, robin is the duffers explaining everything in this sceneÂ
when will is unconscious on the couch and joyce is with him, we get a shot of lucas behind them and another shot of mike behind them. lucas and mike are standing in the same spot in their respective shots but the background is completely differentÂ
robin used the âi think weâre alone nowâ record to represent holly, which is the same song vecna gave her and knew she loved. how would robin know this? she doesnât; this is a vecna trance which is how we have this detail
wills song is âshould i stay or should i goâ by the clash from the combat rock album. robin pulls out london calling by the clash, which is the wrong record for will. mikes memories are getting mixed upÂ
vickie is not in the epilogue and her and robin donât have their enzoâs date, although joyce and hopper do. the end of rovickieâs relationship is very ambiguous. however if this is all in mikes mind, mike doesnât know rovickie is dating which is why this wouldnât be included. and vecna doesnât know vickieÂ
we all know the mindflayer âlikes it cold,â but itâs from dimension x, a desert planet. you would think dimension x would be cold then. itâs not because itâs made up in mikes mind and he didnât think of that detail in his subconsciousÂ
all of netflixâs january 1 releases hint at mike being vecnaâd: they are mike epps: delusional, the big fake, the brave, etc
when they came out of the ud and were met with military, a soldier knew mikes name. how is that possible? Â
thereâs so many reasons mikeâs perception of elâs death dont make sense. how could she have brought him into her mind when the kryptonite was stifling her powers? how could kali have made an illusion of her when she died from a bullet wound a while before? and even if she hasnât died from that, the explosion in the upside down started in the lab where kali was so that wouldâve killed her too. she wouldâve been dead when weâre supposed to believe she was casting an illusion of el.Â
real finale will be 1/7
netflix posted on vol2 release day saying âyour future is on its way. #WhatNext January 7, 2026â
joyce was proven to be right about will not being dead 7 days after he disappeared (1/7 is 7 days after the finale)
in the credits, a dice rolled on a 7
the very first 1on1 mike and will scene is âthe roll. it was a 7â
and thereâs also just so many more plot holes and things that werenât addressed that need more screen time to resolve
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