can you keep a secret without telling a lie? 💫

In 1979 there was a soviet movie, based on the book:

“The Adventures of Elektronik”

The movie tells a story of a boy Elektronik (on the right) created with an appearance of the boy on the left by a soviet scientist professor Gromov. Here’s funny resemblance:

(However, unlike Brenner, Gromov is a good guy.)

The interesting part of it in nowadays perspective is how AI can become a human and whether it can

Elektronik runs away from the professor in the beginning of the movie. He was not supposed to meet Seryozha (a boy he looks like), but ofc they do meet and the adventures begin. Initially, Seryozha lets Elektronik live in his shed, and initially he mostly uses his powers and their alikeness to solve daily problems, while Elektronik learns how to be a human. Elektronik also meets Seryozha’s friends (they form a party, if you wish). and Seryozha shortens his name to El.*

* Professor Gromov calls him Elik which is another short form with a suffix.

At the same time El is chased by a criminal gang that wants to kidnap him and use his powers for a museum robbery.

subway ride home from pride <3

(close ups under the cut)

My taste is cringe but idc

lots if kids shows! owo

@ladytiffanys @mothwingsmayy @alb4tr0ss-feather @herewithluki @dolce-romantixa @angry-avaocardo @hemissesclouds @phanpill @sisterdanielsrosary @makazootie @the-monteverde-angel @zombiegrains @pewe7777 @quietghostygirl @theres-a-bug-like-an-angel @holliewoodnot @toulooser @lavendertea12 @nerdyconsultingfangirl @sage-denim @sourcarmellia @byleriskillingme @artist-cleric-sorcerer @peaches-r-peachy @therottenshards @miwiprotector @painterpangolin13 @epsilonstars @driven-by-anxiety @galacticinquisitorpsion @lunareclipse2727 @bulionzkury @wiseheartheroes @rubyrider6000 @anotherdepressedteen @caro3mm @thoughtsofcritters @sweetcreatureeternal @iluhbyler @nicointhecloset @cinematic--pessemist @byersandwheelerfiles @strawb3rry-wine @nuffit @wickeddreamerr @michaelqueerlerslipstares

YES!! 100%

It's my favorite ship in the entre show and I love it to bits. Otherwise I wouldn't have put so much time and effort into analyzing them so much. Given the little screentime they have together there is a surprisingly huge amount you can say about them (although i think I have covered most of it by now.)

the existence of that. frame. IS SO INSANE TO ME BECAUSE I lowkey drew that. before I even KNEW!!! it basically happened in the show. stonathan is so endgame guys guys GUYS CAN ANYONE HEAR ME PLEASE

I LOVE STONATHAN THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR ANALYSIS POSTS !!!! I loved them before. but your posts actually showed me how deep their relationship goes. and my mind was BLOWN

STONATHAN IS ALSO MY FAV SHIP IN THE SHOW (and not to be dramatic but probably of all time as well.. like omg)

thank you for all you do because your posts are underrated as all hell!!!

I had no idea that for the film The Sixth Sense (1999), M. Night Shyamalan used red to signal the presence of the supernatural:

So if anything supernatural was present, bright red would appear on a random object or character:

Sorry if this information been shared before!

For those who don’t know, The Duffer Brothers have openly discussed being influenced by this movie.

And they also worked with M. Night Shyamalan on the tv show Wayward Pines!

so this is the tweet

in every other scene we saw finn's/mike's hands, it was always him in the details/close ups, like with the dnd minis, the map, etc-

but only the close ups in the epilogue look soo different - and again there were lot of close ups on other minis during the s5, like above, so why couldnt they do that with Finn too?

especially this one is obvious it's not him, being that in the same scene:

and this is the something i've noticed in the mockumentary - there were doubles for the dnd scene before the main actors started shooting that scene. they probably wanted for finn's "last scene" (however true or not that was) to be the acting going up the stairs and not small re-shoots of close up of dnd minis, so it makes sense they shot it beforehand with other people..

but i'm just wondering why they made sure it's noticable it was someone else than mike..

The Replacement Hands.

short note before i show you something

in the beginning of s4 el is struggling. she's miserable, isolated and lonely. she has lost her powers. read: mike's love for will is suffering while mike and will are apart and not talking.

rink-o-mania happens and el hides in the closet, she's desperately hurt and ashamed. read: when mike arrives to lenora and he and will have a fight, mike's love for will is hidden and shamed upon by mike.

el leaves to get her powers back. she's working on it step-by-step and shows progress. her powers surface in bursts, uncontrolled, still vulnerable and very much repressed. but they are there. read: in jane's absence mike and will reconnect, become closer and mike can't stop himself from showing his love to will. he gives in to his feelings in outbursts and flirts with will. we see that the feelings are still there. they are flickering, if you will. but they are still in a very vulnerable state.

el finally gets full access to her repressed (!) memories and the powers are back. and oh aren't they the strongest they have ever been? she's calm, she's in control, and nobody can stop her. read: after mike received will's painting, his love is clearer than it's ever been. mike knows he's in love and he is determined to do something about it. nobody can stop him. right?

well this is just a re-tell. i don't claim any of these ideas, they are not mine, but i just love to think about them. what i noticed, though, is this...

el's powers need a spark. spark of electricity. electricity in the show is a metaphor for attraction/feelings. el needs electricity to bring her powers back. she needs her powers so she can protect herself and finally stop hiding. read: mike's love for will needs electricity outburst of feelings to stop hiding.

so you see here el's powers are the strongest they've ever been and she's wearing the electric collar. i don't know about you, but when i was watching this scene, i was expecting this collar to spark up any moment. read: while el is fighting with her collar on, mike's feeling it all in the van. he's this 🤏 close to bursting out and confessing.

but as soon as mike reconnects with jane, the girl,

el loses her electric collar.

read: mike's suppressing his love for will, when jane, the girl, is around. as soon as jane's back, mike's love loses its spark.

he can only contain his love when jane's near. my good friend will byers is helping me win my case here

I noticed something....

In the finale, Steve almost falls but Jonathan saves him. The way Dustin reacts in E6 I believe is more suitable after the fall scene. I now believe like many others that Dustin is a time traveler somehow....

Key word: "Again"

"You're gonna fall"

"...can't deal with it again"

"...don't let it happen again"

Foreshadowing or a past occurrence?

Dustin witnessed Steve actually die and he can't deal with it again. We(I) thought it could have been about Eddie but what if it was Steve?

Dustin is described as the "curiosity voyager"

Time is a curiosity.

Extra: In T 85, Dustin uses a camera but he doesn't use it in ST. Who loves cameras and has a passion for photography? Jonathan so maybe there is a connection between them.

He voyages through time. Very interesting that Dustin is the only one that has witnessed two people almost falling to their deaths.

I wonder what made this timeline different. Maybe it's this...

Before this, Dustin warns them through the walkie talkie that if she shoots it they will all die. What if Steve died because she shot it? And what if the timeline where he doesn't is this one....

Watch this scene guys. The way he held the gun was instinctual and swift. I'm still surprised that Nancy's first decision was to shoot it. Is that Nancy? 👀

What if Nancy did listen to him?

Jonathan stops Nancy from shooting the exotic matter and also saves Steve from dying. Jonathan, Steve's hero :) There may be something here.

Jane says "we are all time travelers if we think about it" in S4. I assume she is one as well because of how Mike's fall in S1 was executed. Jane saved him just like Jonathan saved Steve from falling.

Also, I watched a video by flowersun8774 on Tiktok where, in S2, Dustin's knowledge of Steve's bat that he used in Jonathan's house in S1 was questioned and thinking about it ...how did he know about the bat when it was the first time he met Steve? Unless he was at Jonathan's house in S1 E8. Flowersun8774 theorised this. This is getting really interesting!

Finally look at this.....

He looks so relieved yet so terrified. What has he seen?!?!?! All those jokes the Duffoons made about killing off Steve and also the fact that they said he was meant to die in S1...maybe he did in another timeline. It's all speculation but who knows?

What if Nancy did listen to him?

If I am being perfectly honest with you then I must say that I don't believe that there is a reality out there where she does listen to him. Thing is, Nancy has doubts herself and Jonathan makes it clear through words and gesture that he also isn't sure if shooting the exotic matter believed to be a field generator is the right decision.

Yet, Nancy shoots it anyway.

Destroying the field generator was also part of their original plan and they were suspecting it to be somewhere in the building. She only stuck to what was agreed upon beforehand even though she had doubts.

What I believe is that Nancy in this circumstance probably has a hard time listening to Jonathan at all since there is so much built up tension between them. She isn't happy in this relationship and his behavior also frustrates her.

Jonathan since the start of S1 has been shown to be nothing but kind and gentle in the way he interacts with the people he's close to and Steve over the course of the series has learned to embrace this side of him as well.

Both are also associated with rabbits.

Rabbits also need to eat.

Beware! This post is going heavily into the symbolism surrounding these two characters and is meant to show that their relationship or rather their attraction towards each other has always been present within the show. It was also suppressed by the narrative or some other overpowering entity within the show.

The first hint we'll get for this symbolism of rabbits and their food sources in particular goes back to S2 when Murray played a manipulated tape saying that the truth must be kept from spreading at all costs and how it's the same for "those weeds there."

It's meant as an acceptable explanation Jonathan and Nancy could give for Barb's death so she could finally get justice. In the very scene it plays though Jonathan and Nancy also get manipulated by Murray and then share their first kiss afterwards.

Murray in here uses "the weeds" line as a comparison but I don't think that this is the only meaning it carries. Weeds are getting pulled during this scene as well. It's the weeds representing Jonathan's (and Steve's) true feelings of either interest, attraction or love towards one another and Murray pulls them by bringing up Jonathan's and Nancy's personal trauma and then manipulating them in such a way that they cannot resist their urge to spite him and proof him wrong.

Nancy doesn't want to retreat to Steve's safety? If she'd kiss Jonathan she wouldn't have to!

Jonathan has trust issues? If he'd kiss Nancy he'd prove to Murray that he doesn't have any!

See how this works? Jonathan and Nancy never kissed (and did more) because they were genuinely attracted towards each other. They did it in order to escape their own trauma without having to deal with it.

This post isn't about jncy though. It's about Murray trying to prevent the true feelings of Jonathan (and Steve) from reaching the surface.

Murray has pulled the weeds indeed and in S3 he even reminds us about it.

Weeds though - as pretty much everyone knows - cannot be kept away forever just by pulling them out. They will grow back. Always.

In the same way true feelings for one another cannot be put to rest by cheap manipulation techniques for all time. They will also resurface.

Just like a relationship which is build upon lies cannot be held together by glue (or manipulation) for all eternity.

It's no surprise then that both Jonathan and Steve have been shown over the course of S3 and S4 to be interested in weeds. Steve admitted to it while under drugs and Jonathan blatantly gets to be shown to smoke weed while in California.

Murray tried to pull the weeds but they grew back.

There are of course many reasons as to why Jonathan started to smoke weed in S4. He uses it as a coping mechanism for all the other stuff he's got going on (like no longer being needed as much by his family) but maybe on top of all of this there is also another secret truth. Maybe he misses Steve.

Also take note of how Jonathan explains his smelly plants to El.

The plants are safe because they come from the earth. This will be important in a bit.

Also, while not all kinds of weeds are edible for rabbits (and certainly not the kind of weeds Jonathan and Steve are smoking but hey it's meant as a wordplay here) some of them can be part of a heathy diet for these little furballs.

Then we enter S5 and Murray is again here to block what would inevitably reach the surface if he doesn't do anything to prevent it. Again, this also gets shown to us trough symbolism.

When he arrives he asks Robin and Nancy if they've ordered a salad. A grenade salad to be precise. It's a grenade salad because he's hidden grenades under the lettuce.

Now we need to remember Jonathan's explanation to El as to why it was okay to smoke weeds. Weeds like these lettuce's here are supposed to be safe because they are plants that come from the earth. Whereas the weeds were safe before, the lettuce right now is not. It's not safe because because Murray literally booby-trapped it.

After Murray's already tried to pull the weeds and wasn't successful with it, he's now trying to make the lettuce explode.

Or in other words: After Murray has unsuccessfully tried to get rid of Jonathan's and Steve's feelings for each other, he's now pulling out the big guns by making it dangerous for them to even remotely act on their feelings.

Lettuce not only grows very close to the earth but is also a favorite for rabbits to eat. Not every type of lettuce is the same though as some are more healthy for rabbits than others. Also, only a small part of a rabbits diet should consist of lettuce.

Later we get to see another attempt of Murray trying to push Jonathan and Nancy together by pressuring Jonathan to ask Nancy to marry him. He's the one who has the most interest in jncy staying together, even more than Jonathan and Nancy themselves it seems.

It's also in this scene where Murray says something very ominous which might tie neatly into the symbolism of him putting grenades under the lettuce. He's reminding Jonathan that life is precious and the death of a loved one could serve as a necessary reminder to hold close what's dear to him. He is of course talking about the lives of Karen and Ted here. This is the obvious interpretation but I cannot help but feel that his words might also serve as foreshadowing here.

Could Jonathan feel motivated to get engaged to Nancy if he were to lose a loved one? Could the death of someone close to him and Nancy remind them to stay together and get married? Could Murray make the grenades under the lettuce explode?

Or in other words: Could Murray, the narrative or some other godlike entity within the narrative think it necessary to kill off Steve so jncy will stay together and get married?

If so I think it'll have a completely different outcome altogether. I don't think Steve will die but I do believe there may be a threat to his life. Volume 2 will show us if I am correct with this or not.

Besides. Murray may want Jonathan to get engaged with Nancy but the person Jonathan finds "quite engaging" is actually Steve. He is the one Jonathan is looking at right after Murray says these words and hands him the tape. Steve is also looking back. This probably indicates that he feels the same way.

Maybe Jonathan not only finds Steve quite engaging but also worth getting engaged to at a later point in time.

It's also no coincidence that Murray blocks Steve at first as he is the one who tries to prevent Jonathan's and Steve's feelings from finally being able to blossom. He is the one trying to prevent Jonathan's and Steve's inner rabbit from finally getting to eat their salad.

Steve is a salad head (even though he's currently unsafe because he's booby-trapped by Murray) as is proven by these camera shots. He's not a meathead like Jonathan later claims in the van. He's soft and gentle and therefore a great food source for Jonathan's inner rabbit.

They're both rabbits though and they both deserve to eat.

Yes! I 100% agree!

I also think Steve and Jonathan are performing their hatred for one another (at least for the most part) because what they actually feel is something else entirely.

It makes me think of this little bit of dialogue when Nancy and Jonathan were at Murray's during S2 and he tries to get Nancy to admit that she loves Steve but she can barely get the words out because she doesn't love Steve. Meanwhile Jonathan looks like he feels caught. Like someone in this room truly loves Steve but it isn't Nancy. It's Jonathan.

But things are also never this easy aren't they?

Even if there is love underneath it all, it still doesn't erase all that happened between them and I also severely underestimated what all this time of separation did to them.

Before S5 they haven't really spoken since the end of S3 and we don't even know what they actually were taking about since it happened in the background. Plus, they weren't alone since Nancy was right behind Jonathan.

Then there is the moment they saw each other again at the end of S4 but that wasn't a happy one for them either. Jonathan runs straight into Nancys arms and Steve can only look from afar.

This I think also sets the mood for them in S5. Steve believes Jonathan is love with Nancy when things are a lot more complicated than that. It's not that Jonathan doesn't love her at all. I think he cares for her greatly but there is also another truth here. Whenever Nancy and Jonathan are left to their own devices, they start to fall apart sooner or later.

Steve however doesn't know this. I highly doubt he's aware that Nancy and Jonathan aren't sleeping in the same room and are barely talking when no one is around. He thinks the problem between Nancy and Jonathan comes from the fact that the latter can't seem to ignore him which is why his relationship with Nancy is in shambles but the truth is that jncys problems are a lot deeper than that. Jonathan's feelings for Steve are part of it but it's not like Nancy and Jonathan never had a chance to fully develop their own feelings for each other and sort through their issues. Steve was out of the picture for two entire seasons (ranging from either fall '84 or summer '85 to spring '86) and yet jncy didn't fare well in S3 and S4 at all.

S3 brought their differences to the forefront like no other season prior to S5 did. I've talked about it here but basically it's this: Jonathan values safety and fights for it while to Nancy safety feels like a trap so she fights against it. Keeping the job vs not keeping the job: Jonathan wants to support his family and if he gets fired he can't do this anymore. Meanwhile Nancy sees this job as a step in her career-ladder. If her boss doesn't value her work, she can leave him behind and look for someone else who will. See how this doesn't mix well?

Nancy's and Jonathan's core values are clashing and Steve has nothing to do with this.

He also doesn't know any of this I think. So he believes himself to be problem and tells Jonathan to stop focusing on him and start focusing on Nancy.

Also, even though Steve gets most of the reputation for turning this thing between them into a competition, I think it's actually Jonathan who can't let things slide. No one forced him to climb up that giant tower with Steve and given his previous behavior I also never thought that he'd act like this and yet here we are.

Steve does a thing or says a thing and Jonathan reacts to it. It's almost never the other way around.

Steve wants to climb the tower and then so does Jonathan.

Steve wants to drive through the gate. Jonathan is against it but then also directs his happiness at him after they've made it through.

Then Steve makes a suggestion as to what to do next and the only thing Jonathan can think of is a comparison he's made earlier.

So what I think is that this competition (if it even is one) is a lot more about Jonathan and Steve than it is about Nancy. It's about Jonathan believing Steve may (still) have a thing for Nancy and he can no longer deal with it in the same way he's dealt with it before whereas the way he's dealt with it before was silent suffering.

There is of course a lot more which plays into Jonathan's behavior this season. He's depressed. His relationship doesn't make him happy. Nancy also never makes any attempt to get closer to him. Joyce is ready to send him on a mission she considers dangerous while preventing Will from going at the same time. (Joyce has a favorite son and it's not Jonathan) No one believes in him or shows any visible consideration for him whatsoever.

Jonathan has given so much for everyone he loves over the course of all four seasons. He's at the end of his rope now and tries to grasp the only thing he still thinks he can get a hold of: Steve's attention.

He's no longer selfless. He can't move out of the way and let Steve have Nancy (remember he still thinks Steve is in love with her) in order to make him happy. He needs Steve's attention on himself and competing is the only way he thinks he can do it safely.

You know, as much as Jonathan values safety, maybe it's finally time for him to take a risk in his life. He doesn't need to completely change who he is. He just needs to be honest with himself and find the courage to openly talk about his true feelings. To Steve and to Nancy as well.

Maybe the outcome will surprise him.

Also yes!! This radio tower does look a a bit like a triangle. Plus it's also a giant phallic symbol (also "bad boy" according o Robin) both Steve and Jonathan are eager to climb while Nancy and Robin don't want to have anything to do with it. (Who can blame them, though?)

Plus, Jonathan wears a quite a few triangles himself this season.

See all those triangles at the back of his jacket?

Love this so much is perfect like always!!!❤️❤️

I already did a post talking a bit about this here.

In S1, Jonathan recalls:

“My dad took me hunting on my birthday. He made me kill a rabbit. I guess he thought it would make me into more of a man or something. I cried for a week.”

The rabbit here is symbolic of forced repression. Jonathan likely killed it, as implied by his tears, fulfilling his father’s cruel demand and suppressing his natural gentleness. 

The act represents external pressure shaping him into a version of masculinity he doesn’t want, a first taste of how the world asks him to harden himself. 

First with Lonnie, then with Joyce and later with Murray.

Later, in S5, he encounters a wounded deer with Nancy and cannot bring himself tokill it. This is the defining moment, the true emblem of Jonathan’s innate empathy and refusal to conform to cruelty and expectations even though killing it right now is the best for the deer. 

Where the rabbit symbolizes repression, the deer symbolizes his compassion but also his indecisiveness, his moral compass, and his emotional resistance to imposed roles.

Now, layer in Steve Harrington.

“Harrington” contains the root “hare”, echoing the rabbit from Jonathan’s past. 

Steve becomes the living rabbit Jonathan has to “kill” but can’t do it. The vulnerable, soft, emotionally open figure he is drawn to and protective of. But at first he denyes it, fights it. Who he really is and he “kills”(beats Steve and denies his queerness) the “hare” (Steve and Jonathan’s identity).

I know he exploded because of Steve’s horrible comments about his family, but I feel there’s more to it. And after that moment, Jonathan definitely felt like Lonnie, like he’d accidentally proved Steve’s atrocious comparison to his father being right, even though is not the truth.

The deer shows what Jonathan refuses to destroy while Steve shows where that refusal points in human relationships.

And here’s the S5 twist, Jonathan believes Steve is in love with Nancy.

So what does he do?? 

He insults Steve, competes with him and reacts to every suggestion, every move he makes.

At first glance, it reads as rivalry. But through the lens of deer and hare symbolism, it’s much deeper: Jonathan’s actions are not about Nancy, they are about his strugglewith identity, “fate”, and emotional survival.

There is more to it, just look at this official cut-scene:

Jonathan is trapped in Max’s memory-labyrinth “second door”:

1. Suicide (self-destruction)

2. Accepting “fate” (repression, doing what’s expected)

3. Escape (choosing his own path, the only good door)

By challenging Steve, by lashing out, by metaphorically climbing the tower with him, Jonathan is testing the third door. 

He is reaching for choice, “to escape”, to act for himself, not out of obligation, not predestined, not because he thinks he “should” step aside for Steve or Nancy.

The deer he couldn’t kill becomes a mirror. He refuses to harm the soft, the vulnerable, even when jealousy, fear or because of others tell him otherwise. Steve, unknowingly, embodies that vulnerability. Jonathan’s competitiveness is the outer layer, the inner truth is care, fascination, and the first steps toward choosing a life on his own terms.

S5 Jonathan is insulting, argumentative, and competitive, but the cut scene’s scripts reveal the emotional weight behind it. He’s navigating the tension between duty, fate, and desire, using Steve as the focal point of his identity.

Also a great parallel between Mike and El and Nancy and Jonthan as you have pointed out is that both Mike and Nancy are their worst selves in season 3. And Bylers take Mike being a douche in ss3 as an indication that byler is endgame, what's stopping people from viewing jncy in the same light.

Another parallel is Byler - Painting Lie and Jncy - College Letter Lie. These 2 are prime examples of the miscommunication trope we see in romantic films and I believe the former will end with a positive outcome and the latter in a negative.

So season 5 could either be 1) Jancy if they do take time to sort out all differences and have proper heart to heart without hiding what each other wants in life, 2) They break up and we see them followinf their own dreams individually or with certain someones with initials S and R respectively only time will tell.

I'm sorry if this too long of an ask (well not exactly an ask as I'm just ouring out my observations after discovering this and bylerlipglances' blog) but please share your opinion on this.

PS - I might make more asks/posts about this (not anonymously) this time after I've rewatched ST.

Yes, anon! Preach!!

I completely agree with you. I also want Murray as far away from byler and all my other ships. Let them sort themselves out, realize their feelings on their own and find the courage to act on them. Not by being manipulated and getting their buttons pressed. It'll be so much harder but it'll be so much more worth it in the end.

Yeah, I completely forgot about this too. Mike like Nancy is at his lowest in S3 but there is still a major difference between these two and their respective relationships with the Byers brothers.

Both Mike and Nancy get better during S4 but for very different reasons.

For Mike it was because he was finally close to Will again. They had multiple heart-to-hearts where they talked about their feelings and were able to reach an understanding for each other on a personal level. (Not counting all the stuff about mlvn here)

Nancy however got better by being away from Jonathan. She tells him later at the cabin how she was glad he wasn't there which was not a lie. Look at her face. She is smiling as she wasn't unhappy he wasn't with her. Especially not after she found someone who can meet her eye to eye in Robin.

I know she complains to Robin earlier about how she is frustrated by Jonathan canceling the plans but by now I have a sneaking suspicion it wasn't because he didn't visit her when he originally planned to. It was because of the way he canceled the plans.

He did it for some vague mumbly Jonathan reason, apparently. This makes it sound like you could put a TM behind it. Like he does it often and this frustrates Nancy because he doesn't tell her what is actually going on.

Thing is that Jonathan wasn't always like this. Not towards Nancy and not even during the course of S3.

In S3 Jonathan was pretty clear with what he wanted. He wanted to drop the story because their boss asked them to do so. To him the story with the rats was not worth getting fired over but to Nancy it was.

Again, if we are going with Flos words about how love makes you crazy and do stupid things (it's not applicable to jncy in S1 - read here - but that doesn't mean that there isn't any truth to it at all as we've seen with byler) then Nancys love for the story and her own ambition is driving her. To Jonathan though that's a stupid thing to do. It's not worth it so it's better so it is better to do the reasonable thing: Listening to their boss. He doesn't have any love for the story. Ambition or wanting to make it big is not what's driving him here.

What we need to understand is that Jonathan right here in S3 is not conforming to reach a higher goal like Nancy is. He does it for his family. To support them so they suffer less financial struggles. To him getting fired over the story Nancy wants to pursue so desperately is hindering him in what he is there for in the first place: To support his family.

I don't know how conscious Nancy is of it but I think the reason why Jonathan sounds like these other men to her is not because of outright misogyny or their general nastiness towards her. Jonathan never acted like this towards her or anyone else and she knows this too. However in her mind the men at the paper and Jonathan are still doing the same thing to her: Holding her back. They like Jonathan are keeping her from reaching her full potential.

Jonathan doesn't know what it's like because to him while he's being parentified to no end, he never feels like his family is holding him back or is a burden to him. They are the very reason he has the job in the first place. He wants to support them to keep them safe from any kinds of struggles no matter what they might look like. So to him it's totally worth it to drop a story if it means he gets to keep his job and can continue to support the people he loves.

This is the reason why they don't understand one another. They have this job (and I am pretty sure they were both excited to have it at one point in the past) but for entirely different reasons which in the end don't mix well.

Nancy is ready to risk everything so she can reach her full potential.

Jonathan is not willing to risk anything if it means it'll potentially harm his family.

Another thing we have to keep in mind is that this is not the impression Nancy has of Jonathan. Murray presented him to her as the exact opposite of Steve and his safety. Someone she'd be able to fulfill her dreams with and who is ready to walk that road with her.

That is not true though. Jonathan just like Steve values safety all while Nancy thinks it's trapping her as it hinders her to pursue her own ambition.

(many thanks to @somethings-wrong-with-nana for helping me figure this out)

We also see this reflected later in what her mom tells Nancy when they have a heart-to-heart. If the small town paper doesn't recognize Nancys efforts and dismisses her story, another bigger paper might take it. It's the same thing she tells Jonathan later at the cabin in S4. I know it's meant as a joke but there is still some truth behind her words when Nancy says she wants to put "saving the world" on her collage resume.

To her there is always something else, something just out of reach but worth fighting for all while Jonathan is perfectly happy with the little things he has as long as his family is not hurting.

One more thing before I come back to what you said but Jonathan was at first completely able to stand up for himself like Robin was later in S4. He told her what he wanted and he is also ready to give back in the same vein as Nancy is ready to dish out.

You may or may not have realized this depending on how much knowledge you have of the Oliver Twist novel but what Jonathans says to Nancy in the morning when she calls him is a direct response to what she said to him earlier in the car. He tells her he had a "late night with Fagin and the gang." I did not understand it at first as I did not know who Fagin even was (Does Jonathan have friend we don't know of? Or is it a band I am not aware of?) but Fagin is a character from Oliver Twist. He is the leader of a gang of thieves Oliver finds himself to be part of against his will. Fagin is also dead set on corrupting poor innocent Oliver as that will get him a lot of money if he's successful.

It's only later that he starts to lie to Nancy for real because this is the only way to save their relationship at least for a little while longer.

Thing is, Nancy hates it when he lies and offers his vague mumbly Jonathan reasons to placate her but he cannot be honest with her either as she also hates his truth.

The collage letter lie will imho bring all of this to light and this is where I think you are also correct, anon. While the painting lie will bring byler closer together and help them sort out their feelings, the letter lie will rip jncy apart as it'll lay open all the things wrong with their relationship.

It's also why I don't think jncy can sort themselves out because as pointed out above they are just so fundamentally different from one another. Personality wise, life goal wise and in the way they find their own fulfillment in life.

If they were to continue their relationship regardless even after they've sorted themselves out they'd just be continuing it for the sake of their relationship and not themselves. It means that instead of becoming like Joyce and Lonnie, they'd become like Karen and Ted.

I just don't want that for either of them. I want them both to find their happiness in life and get validation for their view points because neither of them is actually truly in the wrong here. They are just incompatible.

So please let them give Jonathan someone who's initial starts with an S and Nancy someone who's initial starts with an R. Although I could also see Nancy pursuing her dreams all alone in the end. She certainly has the strength for it but maybe she still wouldn't mind having someone with her who's actually able and willing to walk that road with her.

THANK YOU so much for your comments, anon! I really appreciate them a lot and no I don't think you wrote too much because as you might have guessed I also tend to write pretty long answers.

You are always welcome to share more of your thoughts if you want. Anonymously or not. Whatever fits you best. :)

The scene in which Jonathan and Nancy get together starts out with Murray playing a manipulated tape which mentions how the truth must be kept from spreading by any means necessary.

It's the same with weeds. Apparently they must also be kept from spreading. Possibly by any means necessary as well?

In the same scene we also learn that retreating to Steve means retreating to safety. While Nancy is the one Murray asks first, it's actually Jonathan who answers the question.

So possibly to him retreating to Steve and retreating to safety means something else than it does for Nancy.

In S3 we get another reminder that Murray is the one to pull the weeds.

One thing we should keep in mind though is that no matter how many times you try to pull the weeds, they'll never stay away for too long. In the end they will always grow back.

We also learn that Steve doesn't do drugs. Only weeds.

In S4 El tells us that Jonathan likes to smoke smelly plants now. It's no reason to worry though as the plants are super safe because they come from the earth or so he told her.

So weeds are safe because they come from the earth.

Retreating to Steve also means retreating to safety.

weeds = safety = Steve ?

Mr. Rabbit is another one which can apparently be saved by Nancy if she so wishes. The word used here is "save" and not "keep" which may or may not be a deliberate choice.

Maybe Nancy could provide Mr. Rabbit with the safety he so longs for?

She doesn't want to though as she thinks he'll be more loved in a new home.

Maybe Mr. Rabbit likes the weeds too and maybe someone in the background is ready to provide both.

One has his head buried the others shoulder while another also looks slightly to the side and to the ground all while the third one doesn't look at either of them. Instead she looks up at the open sky above her as she has dreams to follow and goals to reach. She can do without earths safety and she cannot provide it for either of the other two.

Nancy is a sky girl but Jonathan and Steve are earth guys.