I am the delusional byler. fear me.

So she’s on a spaceship reading a book called “The Third Mind”

(not sure if it’s related to another project)

Extremely CG coded!:

The Third Mind concept doesn’t remind me of anything at all..

among other things... sweet...

This is what I'm talking about, here:

(this is why i had to go rewatch the whole season for OTL)

(5x1, with Mike and Holly in the school, with Will's voice-over from the next scene, explaining what the felt during the connection of Vecna spying on Holly and Will being close to the hivemind)

(5x4, the important here is the black screen that was quite long (after the car crash for the context), with Joyce's voice speaking on the radio)

(5x4, Max talking about being cursed by Vecna, while the Upside Down military base (where El and Hopper had just been close to) is still on the screen. again, for quite a long time while Max is already talking)

(5x4, Derek saying "the day of reckoning has arrived" while Hopper is center on the screen after saying how proud he is of El. It feels really ominous and important - especially to finding out what he did during his military service and what horror's still plague him, his sacrificial plans, all that still not being completely resolved by the end of 5x8)

(5x5, the kids in Henry's mind prison. although the first part of that scene Henry was already in the frame, he was voicing over the speech as the kids are gathered around him on the couch, and the lines about how he will bring the others into their home was on screen when Max was in the focus, spying from afar..)

(5x5, Joyce talking about connecting Will back to the hive mind while the whole radio tower is on screen. not sus at all)

(5x6, and this one here is why this post was created - Jonathan's voice-over talking about worrying if Dustin's theory might be wrong, something I feel could be taken both as Dustin's first assumption about the 'shield generator' star wars reference, but also to the wormhole theory he was reading from Brenner's journal.. it feels really like Dustin might not be really at his best this season..)

(5x6, then there's this one. the episode 5x6 is interwoven with Will being tortured by Vecna, who's trying to find someone/something in Will's mind, and I feel we're still being misled by what is his actual goal there. The black screen doesn't add much weight that he'd be searching for Max, when it could be easily edited over any other black screen, which had been quite a few in this season, so timeline wise.. it could travel around, actually... (something about Will-o-wisp and being tricked on the wrong path))

(5x7, As Vecna is putting Holly back into the Mind Flayer's cocoon, Sullivan's describing how there's no stopping Vecna with fire or bullets.. a great foreshadowing how bad the finale was when they actually somehow overpowered the spider-Mind Flayer with, you guessed it, fire and bullets, yeah.)

(5x7, Hopper's distrust of Kali, again. But the lines would actually be interestingly placed at the end of the finale, when it's time for El to move on maybe with her sister.. and Hopper finally learning to properly trust them both. much to think about.)

(5x8, part 2 of why this post got made. this one's really self-explanatory. they should hurry the fuck up, i mean.. c'mon, Duffers, we're still waiting here)

A Part #2 of my post about TB and ST connections. With pictures and possibilities. (I have a part 3 I'm thinking of doing about Mike, Will and the bus stop)

WARNING. Spoilers for The Boroughs ahead.

Sam's conversation with the Duchess ( who had 2 itty bitty silver cats on the headboard behind her) It feels important. And for some reason, even though in parts it could relate to the MF and in parts to Will, I kept thinking about how much it felt like she could be talking about Eleven.

D: She told me all about you S: Who? D: That's the question. She appears different to all of us who see her. Always someone from our past, like a daughter,

or a sister or…

S: Wife?

D's gf: haha. He thought he was seeing a ghost!!

S: What is she then? D: She doesn't know. She doesn't even know her name.

D:But the folks who drink her blood call her Mother.

S: What does she want from me? D: For you to save her. She's running out of time. She's been crying out to you for help, even the damn birds could hear her,

but you're too stubborn to listen.

S: Why me? D: Well you weren't the first choice. But up until now the only people who could hear her were like me. Those of us lost in time.

We're not strong enough to do what needs done. But then you came along. The loss of your wife split your mind. (Will explaining the split in his mind that allows him "true sight" Like being caught between two slides)

You've got one foot stuck with us now and the other, in the day she died.

Mother doesn't experience time in a straight line either, Sam.

S: I don't care. I won't save her. She killed Jack D: That was an accident. She's in pain just like you. You want to help your friends? Save her. The choice is yours. Anger…or forgiveness. Choose.

(2 Choices)

S: crying I just want to get out of here.

D: The 5:15 bus, will take you where you need to go. (5+1+5=11 btw)

and also Will the Spy

Walk with me....

I believe I have found something. Just in case I haven't said it before, I don't think Jancy is endgame for a lot of reasons. The most undeniable one is WSQK. It hints at a relationship between Steve and Jonathan instead. I made a post about it here. Also read @strange-anni's reblog. It's really good.

Here is what I noticed....

We all said that this meant that the canon couples would be Jopper, Byler and Jancy? Well, if you look at where El, our protagonist is standing, she separates Jopper and Byler from Jancy. Even the huge heap of smoke in front of her separates Jancy from the rest.

What does Jopper and Byler have in common? Well, their relationships were built over time. A random person (Murray) didn't tell them they were meant to be together before they started loving each other. Jancy, on the other hand, are trauma-bonded. Nancy says it herself in S2 when she wonders why they only communicate when they need to get things done. I've also been wondering if Nancy ever spoke to Jonathan before Will went missing. Jonathan usually picks Will up from the Wheeler's but we don't see anything between them not even a glance to indicate there was something there. It was Will and then Barb's disappearance that brought them together.

Take a look at this.....

Jopper and Byler to El's left then Jancy to El's right.

Remember that El normally bleeds from her left nostril....

On El's (L's) side equals good/safe/real

On the R side I think could possibly indicate a Code Red.

On the right side with Jancy, you see a helicopter above and they are usually used to rescue people suggesting to me they (Jancy) both need to be rescued from their conformist relationship. Their situation is an "emergency" but don't fret, Steve and Robin will come to their rescue soon...

Conclusion

Every day, I get more confident that Byler, Ronance and Stonathan have been hinted at throughout the show just like Korrasami here and would eventually become canon, that is if death is out of the equation for these characters. I'm really excited! Woker things is canon.

Oh um okay this picture of Barb at her parents’ house the same episode that Max first appears in right right right right with the same long red hair

Right right right right right

Like when Will went missing and a kid who looked exactly like him but a little different (and a girl) went missing… but he didn’t actually die

In the Hollands’ house (with all of this clock ticking in the background) right right right right right

AND Mr. Clarke introduces Max as Maxine like our old pal Mr. H1V calls her right

Elder Brains are stored in brine pools.

The thing above Hawkins Lab reflects like pool water at night.

Elder Brian's have access to memories.

This is the characters inside the Mindflayer making one Elder Brain. Minus Creel, big scary guy, Lucas, who is aware and choosing to stay, hello Dimitri in Russia plot line, and Erica, who was smart enough to avoid getting caught.

Meaning somewhere the characters are all in their own baths. In fact, I bet all of Hawkins are in baths. It would allow the Elder Brain to maintain safety, keep the military away, give Hopper his job back no questions, let Jonathan go to school, Nancy have her dream career, Steve to get what he desires, Lucas gets his love story, Max does not need to be disabled, Dustin gets to attend college, and Mike gets to marry Jane. A fairytale ending at the price of the water supply. Because the Abyss just happens to not have water, and that's the future if the Elder Brain and Vecna continue down this path.

With that said. What if a character woke up and realized they were under water? How would they locate the others?

Sonar.

What if this is the wave, is a sonar wave, from the future, the epilogue we saw. Using the Elder Brain water against the Elder Brain. Sending out a sonar wave to the past because their friends are lost on the other side of the wall.

Who is meant to tear down the Wall?

Season 2 Episode 1 - Murray Bauman (MB) talking about the conspiracy of the Russian infiltration of Hawkins, the alien theory he had at one point and Hopper basically says “oh yeah you hear about Santa Claus?” Mike refers to him as Santa in S5

At this point, we thought Martin Brenner (MB) died in Season 1 Episode 8. We thought that Papa died, and we see Murray enter the picture, who later is called Santa Claus. Santa Claus also known as Father Christmas.

Again, the only person able to move in and out of Hawkins in S5. The one bringing them supplies and food to the rest of our team, who knows just as much about what the military is doing. Why?

Dungeons & Dragons starts out being the framework the Party understands the supernatural with. Slowly but surely, Dungeons & Dragons became how the characters (and audience) actually understand the supernatural elements within the show.

I don’t know enough about The First Shadow to extrapolate here, but I wish I could :/

I think that Henry (who I’m thinking is still alive & connected to everything) is using Camazotz & A Wrinkle in Time to show the Party that whatever is actually controlling the narrative can make it look like something familiar. Something they can understand. The same way Season 5 is showing the audience that whatever is actually controlling the narrative can make it appear as whatever it needs to in order to be believable.

Henry and the show are making off just enough that the characters can figure it out themselves, but not enough that the actual big bad™️ is able to adjust accordingly.

As in, the Elder Brain = IT = Mind Flayer = Shadow Monsters = the Three Headed Thesselhydra

But it's a pretty unclear theory with no real distinction between a timeline restoration and a memory journey like the ones that Holly and Max took to escape Camazotz. That was mostly because I don’t see that much of a distinction. Vecna and the Mind Flayer are probably the ones responsible for the timeline disruption if there is one unless the writers decide to introduce an even worse villain. At the very least, they've facilitated it. They’ve also created whatever mind prison the characters are all trapped in. I’m still unclear on the details, but if there's any chance at repairing the timeline and/or escaping the mind prison, I think that Will and Mike would need to revisit the memories Vecna has of them. Will is an obvious choice to make this journey. However, I do think that Mike would have a crucial role in this as well. He is the "key," as Hopper would refer to him, but I also think that Mike is just as entangled in the supernatural plot as Will is, even if it's just by association.

I want to revisit and alter that theory just a little. Not enough to change my point – I still believe that the argument at Rink-o-Mania is just as important as the Snow Ball. However, I made my point based on signal interference and memory recency and not necessarily what we’ve been shown in season 5. That being said, I still firmly believe that there has to be some sort of forgiveness and healing. A successful journey through memories can’t just be reliving uncomfortable or traumatic moments. A timeline restoration or an escape from a false reality – whatever it is – isn’t just about acknowledging that something went wrong along the way. The characters need to actually repair the damage and heal. I believe that we are shown this in season 5.

There's another point that I forgot to mention because it didn't occur to me at the time. Two times in season 5, we saw Max lay in a course to escape Camazotz. Her first attempt to escape was through music like she had done in season 4. Her second attempt was recreating the experience with Holly. I think that each attempt failed, or at least the second wasn't as successful as we're led to believe.

In episode 4, we get our first look at Max's route to escaping Camazotz. Max told Holly that once Lucas started playing music for her, she stumbled on a memory of herself. It was the day Henry cursed her. The starting point of Max's escape was Henry's first memory of her. From there, she let the music guide her. However, following the music took her through terrible memories until it finally led her to the worst one: The night Henry killed her. Once she fought through that traumatic memory, she ended up in what appeared to be the original Mind Lair. Since Playgate, we've all kind of agreed that something was very off about the season 5 Mind Lair compared to the one we saw in season 4. This could be because it was quite literally a stage and not the real one at all. The artificial-looking mindscape was the indication for us that all of season 5 might be a play, but it might have also been a clue that Henry created this moment specifically to deceive Max. Max would interpret the red mindscape to be the final stretch before escaping. If Henry truly is pulling all the strings in season 5, I think that goal would be something he'd anticipate.

If we look at the sequence of events, Max was using an old tactic. A tactic that I believe Henry expected and was prepared to override. After volume 1, I haven't been able to let go of how Henry gave Holly her favorite song in Camazotz. I believed this was a clue to the audience that Henry had gotten stronger and figured out how to override the power of music. I had some really good discussion about this with other fans and sparks-olivarpente pointed out the duality of music. Music can either be freeing or dangerous depending on the context. Music can unlock parts of the brain, as we learned in season 4, but in terms of memories, it might actually be a hindrance. Sometimes a song reminds someone of a sad time in their life and it can draw them back into those feelings of despair.

That was how we saw it play out in season 5. Once Max heard "Running Up That Hill," it took her to the memory of when Henry cursed her. Then, it guided her through terrible memories until the night he killed her. On this journey, she also saw the times Henry impersonated her mother and Billy, and then her first terrifying escape. In season 4, "Running Up That Hill" helped Max focus on positive memories enough to fight off Henry, but in season 5, it took her to a very dark place. So, although music helped Max escape before, it might've actually hindered her escape in season 5. In other words, Henry might have discovered how to reverse the positive effect music has on his victims.

There could be another hint about this. In “Dear Billy,” the arrangement of “Running Up That Hill” is pretty suspicious. For the arrangement, the song repeats the first part of the bridge. “Come on, baby. Come on, darling. Let me steal this moment from you now” was played twice. It can seem like the sound designers extended the bridge so that the song would sync with the events on screen. However, I would argue that there was really no need to extend the bridge. Instrumental sections were already included in the arrangement to ensure the song would align with the sequence. Also, the sound designers could have easily started the song at an earlier moment. Repeating the first part of the bridge sounds jarring if you knew the song before this scene. It has no variation – it sounds like a scratched record getting hung up on a groove and repeating itself.

I think we can find another clue about this situation in Will’s dialogue from episode 7 after his experience with Henry. He explained to Joyce how he took control in the MAC-Z by focusing on happy memories. Will found a crack in Henry’s power and exploited it. However, it didn’t work a second time. In the MAC-Z, Will used his memories of when he was a kid. Concentrating on the happiest moments in his life is how he defeated the Demogorgons. After being captured, Will thought he could repeat this, but Henry “found a way past it.” Since volume 1, I’ve been under the assumption that Henry helped Will unlock his powers as a test. But a test for what? I’m not sure yet. If we go with the idea that Henry is like a learning computer, he could be testing the characters to gather information about them and recalculate his plan to secure victory.

If any of this is true, we can probably find a general theme from these moments. A second attempt at something doesn’t guarantee success. Something that worked before might not work the same way again. The message here could be don't be too reliant on one solution.

Henry staging the Mind Lair himself seems a bit implausible considering that he was quite angry at Max on both escape attempts. But what better way to maintain the ruse than to chase her around as if he were preventing a real escape? It already seems like he lied about needing Will to locate Max’s body at the hospital. That’s definitely not all he needed Will for (unless that whole plot really was that stupid). Why couldn’t he be lying about the Mind Lair too? At the very least, there is something off about Max's first attempt to escape Camazotz. I think that we do have pretty solid evidence that Henry has manipulated the power of music. I believe that when he gave Holly her favorite song in Camazotz, it was both to test his new abilities and the writers' way of taunting the audience. It showed us just how powerful Henry was becoming throughout the season. Additionally, I believe that the writers' have been telling us since season 4 how Henry thinks and schemes. By season 5, he finally figured out how to steal "Running Up That Hill" from Max. He might have trapped her with that song.

But I believe that there was something off about the second escape as well. Whether it was Henry all along or not, I think the writers have given us some clues about the route out of Camazotz and why Max’s escape might not have actually worked.

In season 5, Max was under the impression that reliving traumatic memories was the route out of Camazotz. She believed in it so much that she repeated the process with Holly. This would be her relying on one solution. On the second attempt, it worked, and Max and Holly escaped. However, I think the show might have hinted that the escape wasn’t permanent. Moments after Holly escaped, she was yanked back in by Henry. I know that this happens pretty often in stories in order to build tension – the hero thinks they've finally gotten the advantage only to be outsmarted by the villain. But I think that we can also interpret this to mean that none of the characters can outrun Henry for long. When Holly escaped, there was enough time for Nancy to see her before she was recaptured. In the show, this was to let the characters know that Holly was taken back into Camazotz after Max woke up, but it could also be a clue for us. 

After Holly is recaptured, Nancy explained the situation to Mike. She said, “It was like something had a hold of her, but you couldn’t see anything. It was him. Vecna. It had to be.” Remember, Henry had this new, gross thing that he would do with his arm. He could extend it like a vine. Maybe all of that can be tied together. Maybe in some instances, Henry can extend his mind and simply yank his victims back in even after they think they’ve gotten away (like after the final battle).

I also believe that the show could be trying to tell us something when Max woke up. She told Lucas that she never needed the music, she just needed him. It was very sweet, and something I would expect her to say. It both represented her character growth and her bond with Lucas. It’s also generally a good idea to progress your story and change how solutions worked in the past. Between volumes 2 and 3, many fans in the Byler community pointed out how this is consistent with the show’s theme about love winning over hatred and fear. On Max’s first escape attempt, the portal in the mindscape closed when Lucas let go of Max’s hand, not when the music stopped. Max didn’t need music this time, she needed Lucas and her love for him. 

But that line is also why I kept questioning how music works within the show. Henry gave Holly her favorite song. “Running Up That Hill” took Max through traumatic memories rather than happy ones. And in the end, Max said that she didn’t even need it. It seemed like there was something more to this puzzle. It can seem insignificant, but the first clue I got that something went wrong with Max’s escape was how the show plays “When It’s Cold I Like to Die” when she woke up. That was the song that was played when she died. The creators use the song during this moment as if it had never been turned off. It played over her last moments of consciousness, then it was paused while she was in a coma, and it resumed when she woke up. Why? In season 1, “When It’s Cold I Like to Die” was the song that played over Will’s revival, so it sort of makes sense why they played it when Max woke up. But they played it when she died first. Her revival, the one that was similar to Will’s, had already happened in season 4 when El restarted her heart. Why are they playing it again in season 5?

None of this is to say that there wasn’t any value in Max and Holly’s journey. A lot of good character moments came from that plot line. Not everything was wrong, and the things that might have gone wrong were not their fault. Nor is it necessarily a bad message. I just believe that the show could be using this plot line to tell us that reliving trauma doesn’t mean you’ve healed from it. I think that Max and Holly making their escape by fighting through trauma only for Holly to be yanked back into Camazotz could be a representation of the cycle of trauma. Henry himself can represent the effects of trauma, and defeating him isn't just cutting his head off. Healing isn’t just about reliving the hardships and pushing through to survive. It takes effort, time and forgiveness. We saw a glimmer of this when Max encouraged Holly in episode 6. Holly needed to forgive herself for not being able to rescue her mother or Max. This could be the show telling us that whatever happens with Mike and Will in the future would have to include forgiveness if their story has any chance at being repaired.

It’s still unclear to me how Camazotz got blended with the real world enough that Max's second escape seemed to work, but I have an idea that season 5 doesn’t take place entirely within a false reality. The characters were only partially in a dreamworld like a Viewmaster caught between two slides. Camazotz might be the first representation of this underlying narrative. The dreamworld comes in waves. The portal out of Camazotz is real one moment and fake the next. Some events happened while others were completely imagined. Maybe one day it’ll click and I can write a real theory on that, but for now, that’s all I have.

In my first theory about this, I argued that the Rink-o-Mania memory would be like the outermost ripple from the source. The source would be the Snow Ball in this case. There are other ripples, other wrinkles in time to repair before reaching the source at the Snow Ball. However, if we use Max’s journey in Camazotz as an example, it could actually begin with Henry’s first memories of Mike and Will. There has to be something more to the beginning of season 5 other than just foreshadowing what would happen to the 12 children. Think about the cold opening in season 2 with Kali. We saw Kali use her powers to outrun the cops in episode 1. The story then came back around, and she repeated this tactic again at a pivotal moment in episode 7. That doesn’t happen in season 5 with its cold opening. Only a fraction of the scene comes back later in the story. It foreshadowed the fate of the 12 children, and Henry took Will back to the library, but it was never truly addressed the way it needed to be. There has to be something more to it. Henry’s first memory of Will might be when he finally captured him in the Upside Down. And I believe that Henry’s first memory of Mike is through Will’s eyes when Will was possessed in season 2. What this means moving forward, I’m not sure yet. I don’t know how Will and Mike would stumble on these memories if they do at all. But I do know that it can’t just be a simple observation of these memories. There has to be a complete healing process before they can truly escape whatever this nightmare is.

And I still think a healing process would begin at Rink-o-Mania. What happened out in California is still crucial to the story and has to be a part of whatever happens next, right? At Rink-o-Mania specifically, there’s too much about letters and vulnerability for the story not to circle back on this moment. And I also believe that a healing process has to include Will and Mike understanding how they have hurt El. They will need to repair their relationship with her as well as with each other before whatever happened in season 5 can be fixed. To be clear, this is not me blaming them for their actions. What makes Stranger Things a great show is how nuanced and real the relationships are. The characters are all human and just learning how to navigate their lives. Their actions are understandable even when they’re flawed. My point was always that these moments can’t just be acknowledged, they need to be healed. I believe that Mike and Will need to correct their mistakes and forgive themselves. A great way to start this process is understanding what went wrong out in California before going to the source at the Snow Ball.

While confronting traumatic memories is generally a good thing, I think that Stranger Things is showing us how the characters are stuck reliving them – not truly processing them. Max and Holly both escaped, but there could be some clues in the show that they actually didn’t. At least, not in a way that they would need to. Camazotz is a place of repression, trauma and uncertainty. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to interpret a message about what it looks like to relive trauma but never process it. Max and Holly journeyed through Camazotz using traumatic memories, but that might not be the true route out of the nightmare. Although I’m not sure what exactly it would look like, I do still believe that healing from trauma and hardships is actually the characters' way out of this hellscape, nightmare world. I think that throughout the whole series, we've been shown what tools the characters will need to break out. Honesty, forgiveness, friendship and love are still very powerful qualities in the show. Their trauma doesn’t just need to be observed in memories, it needs to be healed in some way.

I feel like I'm melting because of the heat, but this kind of snowball isn't helping me to cool down at all... I mean, that's probably the best piece of evidence I'll ever find. Yes, actual evidence.

There's only a few steps left to reach that part, so let's start with the video. As always, you'll find my detailed analysis below. Related Posts: 5/5 Sync, Part 1, Part 2, Part 3

▷ ▷ ▷ ▷ ▷ ▷ ▷ ▷ ▷

▶ Calling Will's Name

The first timeline shows Will having a vision in the Abyss, while the second one shows him having another vision at the Mac Z.

Both times Mike's calling Will's name and trying to get to him. He's not able to do so at the Mac Z because the soldiers are holding him back. But there's no reason he can't touch Will's arm in the Abyss - except it's the same reason.

▶ "Resist it."

In the upper timeline Henry's reliving his trauma, watching his younger self interacting with the scientist in the cave, right after gaining his new powers. The lower timeline shows Will after hijacking Vecna's powers and killing the three Demos. Both the adult Henry and Will are dressed very similar and raise their heads to see what happened.

The cave scientist is giving warnings: "You must resist it. It will consume you. It will consume all." This leads to scout Henry looking at the scientist, stretching out his hand and killing the man, getting a nosebleed right after. At the same time Will's looking at Mike, getting a nosebleed too.

Tbh, this was was the first scene I synced of Season 5/5, making me reshape the rest of it. And it's still one of the scariest ones for me, I don't fully understand it, but I know it must be something dark. My first thought was that Will killed Mike and... and that was the first time I thought about Mileven being the better option. Ô_o

But despite the fact that both young Henry and Will used their powers for the first time here, powers they didn't had before, they react completely different. When Henry stretched out his hand his palm was facing downwards, Will's was facing upwards. Henry was in absolute shock after killing someone, which is a very valid reaction, but Will was very calm and didn't acted surprised at all.

▶ (Not) Deciding Between Two Options

Timeline one shows El and Mike's last goodbye, while timeline two shows the group discussing Erica's and Lucas' plans. We'll focus mainly on the second one.

Erica's plan is building a new telemetry tracker, seeking help by the 'biggest nerd' in Hawkins. But there's more than one nerd in Hawkins, for example Will - who helped Dustin to set up the antenna for the telemetry tracker. So why not ask him first, he's right there. Why are we forgetting him again? In short - Erica's plan is 'Will.'

Mike's the only one reacting to this, saying that 'her plan' could work. But he's hesitant about this, looking at Robin for approval. Robin, another gay character that he barely knows... while Will's standing on the other side of him... Very interesting choice, Michael.

Lucas' plan is 'El' - which makes his comment for the Mileven kiss even funnier: "As I was heating up my popcorn, I thought about Billy in the sauna." Wild combination. When El's about to die, Lucas is talking about the particles, to heat them up and bringing them back to live. He's suggesting to bring Mileven back.

Mike, who's standing in the middle (in between both options), doesn't seem to be enthusiastic about it. He keeps quiet, looking for the reactions of the others. Only when Joyce's suggesting to try both, throwing two darts and playing for a bullseye, he silently agrees with the others. He still cares a lot about what other's might think about him, still trying to fulfill their expectations. Maybe that's why the other Mike just wouldn't stop calling El's name. That boy's costing me my last nerve, omg...

▶ The Basement And The Snowball

Finally we reach the scene with the best evidence.

In the first timeline El's still busy exploding with the Upside Down, in the second one Dustin and Steve are investigating the basement of Hawkins Lab.

Dustin is searching for a magic shield generator, but now he calls it a treasure instead. Steve's getting mad at him for not keeping his metaphors 'straight.' During the time they finally find the rainbow room in the basement, we see the Wheeler house collapsing above.

That's our next metaphor already: Mike's basement. The rainbow room. It's about staying closeted, only letting gay stuff happen in the basement. Don't ask me about what stuff exactly, I don't know. But maybe you noticed that this is the third time we've come across this metaphor during this series. It was always about Mike, every single time. And it's about him this time again (Steve = Mike).

Steve finds a maze with two balls in it, he's picking one up and calls it 'treasure,' just as we get to see El again in the other timeline. If this one is 'treasure' aka 'El,' that means the ignored ball is the 'magic shield generator' aka 'Will.' More metaphors.

Dustin's getting mad at Steve now, saying that's the perfect spot for him with his arrested development and that he's going to search the rest of the basement. As he says this the flashlight beam's illuminating the rainbow behind him. Actually Dustin's mad at Mike for staying in the rainbow room / basement with his maze and not getting out to explore.

Steve (Mike) is making fun of the metaphors Dustin's not keeping 'straight.' He calls his idea 'made-up bullshit,' just as we see El for the last time.

In the second timeline we switch to Nancy and Jonathan now. Jonathan worries that Dustin might be wrong this time. Wrong about Steve (Mike) staying in the rainbow room? He says that "this place is dead" when El finally dies or vanishes. Okay, bye El.

When the terrible noises finally stop Nancy says to Jonathan: "Might as well search this place." This is about 'the other Byler' exploring. When Jon says "Hey" both Nancy and Mike react to it (Nancy = Mike; Jonathan = Will).

Jon asks if he did something to piss her off, but Nancy (aka Mike) gets defensive and blocks. Nancy says "Now there's a tone because you're being ridiculous" and somber piano music starts playing for Mike, who's watching the ruins of the gate. Tone-deaf Tammy (El) is gone now, huh?

Now Jonathan's asking if he was being ridiculous downstairs, right after we had a scene of the rainbow room in the basement. Nancy answers this with "You mean when 'you' and Steve started up your 'macho crap' again?" Since Dustin was downstairs with Steve, that means Dustin = Jonathan (= Will). Therefore the 'macho crap' means exploring, not being stuck to being straight and being gay outside of 'the basement.' Why is this so complicated, omg?

Nancy said that they "should stick to the usual" but Jon's pointing out that she hesitated back then. Mike was considering to change things, to explore, but decided to stick to the usual instead.

Jonathan's repeating "I know you, Nancy. You hesitated" while he's looking at her. On the other screen we see Will looking into Mike's direction. That's our final hint for Jonathan = Will.

They talk about the importance of Nancy's missing sister, which happens to be Mike's sister also. Oh, and Will's sister just went missing too, well...

Jonathan tells Nancy how scared he is after everything that has happened. He doesn't know what's on 'the other side' of any of this. At the same time we see the camera zoom in slowly on Mike and we see him shedding a tear. Will and Mike are both scared of being together outside of the basement aka 'the other side.'

He goes on, saying they need to be a team like they used to be. Nancy answers that they still are but Jon doesn't agree. " Not anymore." Meanwhile the other timeline's showing a black screen only, but we can hear a rhythmic beating. They're getting nervous.

A quick reminder, in season 4 Mike was referring to him and Will being a team. As far as I remember Jon and Nancy never used that term for describing themselves. But correct me if I'm wrong.

Nancy asks Jonathan if he wants to solve all of their relationship issues there. In the upper timeline the epilogue starts. We see a hole in a wall, getting fixed at the moment. The camera zooms out, showing a scaffolding around the building.

Jonathan answers "I just want you to stop running away from me." ... To stop... running away? Wait a minute. Mike ran away from home in the epilogue. He was sitting on a bench, watching the same building that we see right now. Even thought we can't see him right now, he's probably already there...

Finally "Smalltown Boy" is being mentioned, omg!? The first track of Mike's official character playlist, which disappeared out of nowhere and was never played in the show. The song text is basically just "run away, turn away," but it discusses the oppression of closeted gay youths. That's just fitting perfectly right now. If you want to listen to it (again) I'll link you the YouTube video here.

Jonathan wants Nancy to start being honest with him, but she only says: "Oh and that's what you've been? Honest with me?" She knew he was lying to her. Mike knows that Will lied to him. And what's the one thing Will has lied about? Right. The painting. His feelings.

Okay, so what about the snowball? As Nancy's talking, "Landslide" by Fleetwood Mac starts playing in the other timeline. Let's take a look at the song text, even though we don't hear it.

"I took my love, took it down I climbed a mountain and I turned around And I saw my reflection in the snow-covered hills 'Til the landslide brought me down"

A landslide on a snow-covered hill? Some would call that an avalanche.

"Oh, mirror in the sky What is love? Can the child within my heart rise above? Can I sail through the changin' ocean tides? Can I handle the seasons of my life?"

Oh, we've seen the child within Mike's heart a lot. It's Holly! Also the seasons of life... why are there falling leaves in the back if it's May? That's the wrong season. And if Mike's mental season reached fall already, you know which season will come next. Winter. Snow.

"Well, I've been afraid of changin' 'Cause I've built my life around you But time makes you bolder Even children get older And I'm getting older too"

Mike's afraid of changing and his heart literally is a boulder, a homonym for bolder.

Here are the links to the song and the whole song text.

Okay, so we have a song referring to the 'snowball turning into an avalanche' so far. We won't stop here.

Jonathan says that he's been honest, but Nancy noticed that he hesitated. "And that hesitation was the size of a Mack Truck." Have you noticed the lamp? What does it look like to you? I mean, we only see a white ball, the camera's moving upwards, past it... Could've easily been avoided, if it weren't meant to be intentional...

Connected with the song that's our literal snowball rolling down the hill. The size of a Mack Truck. You could say the size of a Fleetwood Mac Truck. You don't even need the 5/5 Sync to see the snowball. It has always been there, very obvious but still unnoticed. You only need the Sync to understand what it's about.

So yeah, Will's lie about his feelings is the snowball. And that snowball just started rolling down the hill. Why would the epilogue start with the snowball if there's no avalanche yet to come? Looking at the trees we've only reached fall, not winter. And how can a show end when there's a whole season still missing?

A season and some paintinggate payoff. ↪ BTW, I just noticed another detail about "Landslide." Let's compare it to the text of "Never Ending Story."

"Turn around" - "I turned around" "Look at what you see" - "I saw my reflection in the snow-covered hills" "The mirror of your dream" - "Oh, mirror in the sky"

Why does it sound like the songs are having a conversation? There's so much evidence only in the last 30 seconds, what the hell is happening here???

● ● ● ● ● ● ● ● ●

Be honest with me, did you notice the snowball in the epilogue? I mean, maybe that was common knowledge already and that info just went past me? I absolutely can't trust my ADHD brain with this. I feel like sometimes is see everything and nothing all at once.

I just saw a quick thing on TikTok about the end credits calling Ted a "Steward" and Karen's maiden name being Childress

ie a Steward takes care of something that isn't his and Childress is a name for someone who runs an orphanage and, well, takes care of kids that aren't actually theirs.

Weird right? Putting that together, it kind of implies that at least some of their kids aren't theirs.

Also, it brings back one of my earlier questions of what the heck does Ted do for a living? He is literally ALWAYS in the house with Karen. It doesn't matter what time of day it is, he's right there. He sleeps a lot and always in his living room chair instead of with his wife, since season 1.

He watches a lot of tv, just like the agents did in season 4. Clearly he isn't an agent because he was really bad at dealing with the demogorgan situation-Karen seemed more capable-but maybe he did work for the lab in some capacity? Seriously, why was he always home and always in a suit?

Anyway, it got me thinking back to a couple of things related to Hawkins being a larger lab experiment

The TFS news articles at the end calling for pregnant women volunteers (and all the pregnant women in 5)

Karen telling Nancy she thought she was switched at birth

Lonnie never being in a single scene with Will and only showing up when he thinks he's dead. Lonnie referring to Jonathon as his son but showing zero concern or interest for Will.

Owens calling Joyce and Hopper "Mom. Pop." when coming in to check on Will in 2. It's weird, because why did he say that? No one was ever pretending Hopper was Will's dad and Owens knew the score. But he definitely says Pop not Hop. I checked several times.

Papa and then Hopper both attempting to be a parental figure to El while simultaneously isolating her. Hopper calling her a science experiment in 1 and betraying her location to the lab in exchange for Will, but then keeping her hidden in the cabin while still keeping things quiet for the lab. (Being left with a tv is nicer than being forced to kill cats and spy on Russians, but she is still locked up and isolated in both cases for extended periods of time) .... Bonus, even though he takes care of her and Owens helps him adopt her, the way he tells the story of Sarah in both 2 and 5 feels so upsetting. "Sarah? Well, Sarah's my daughter." and "Sarah, my daughter? She was brave." etc. Not she was my daughter too. The language is always very distancing from El, if that makes sense. "You are like Papa!"

Terry Ives saying "No" in the mindscape when El says "Mama, it's me, Jane. I'm here now. I'm home."

The older teens with no parents. Constantly hearing about but never seeing Steve's parents. Constantly hearing about but never seeing Robin's mother. Both becoming caretakers/mentors for the younger party members.

This is just a family bonus. Everyone talking about an uncle for some reason, even when it seemed superfluous to the story. Holly. Erica. Robin. Steve. And Eddie having one.

We only see one photo of him and Will together, in the first episode. In the other photos, Jon is always alone

Joyce says that he acts like he's all alone out there in the world

He tells Nancy that he wasn't around when his parents loved each other (he often says things like "I wasn't there", "I'm sorry I wasn't here")

Nancy basically calls him Oliver Twist

And in S4 there's this very subtle connection between the lyrics of California dreamin' ('I got down on my knees'), when El, Will and Jon are in the shot, and the article about the game

"Johnny (can't read the last name) fell to his knees and began to cry as though he were a child abandoned by his parents"

Other interesting things about children and parents

Max doesn't even know where her father is

"Father and daughter missing"

This line

Joyce and Hopper being called mom and pop a lot, directly, or indirectly

Pop for El, but also for Will

I still want to know why El screams Pop and not Papa in this flashback, and why nobody has ever asked who her biological father is

(Suspicious minds doesn't count. Hopper tells El that you couldn't be born without a mother, but not a single question about the other parent? It's sus. So, either El isn't a real person, and I hope it's not that, or her father is one of the men in the show)

There is much more, like the many mentions of brothers and sisters, and twins, and another possible meaning of Karen's last name, Childress, a town in Texas, named for George Childress (in the synopsis of TFS, Henry is George Smith)

"Childress, located in the southeastern corner of the Texas panhandle, owes much of its existence to another Plains community known as “Henry.”

Part 32: White Queen vs. Red Queen

PART 1 HERE | PART 2 HERE | PART 3 HERE | PART 4 HERE | PART 5 HERE | PART 6 HERE | PART 7 HERE | PART 8 HERE | PART 9 HERE | PART 10 HERE | PART 11 HERE | PART 12 HERE | PART 13 HERE | PART 14 HERE | PART 15 HERE | PART 16 HERE | PART 17 HERE | PART 18 HERE | PART 19 HERE | PART 20 HERE | PART 21 HERE | PART 22 HERE | PART 23 HERE | PART 24 HERE PART 25 HERE | PART 26 HERE | PART 27 HERE PART 28 (1/?) HERE | PART 29 (2/?) HERE | PART 30 (3/?) HERE PART ♾️ HERE | PART 🤫 HERE | PART ❤️👬 HERE

*Heads up, you're gonna wanna check out Parts 24 - 30 for context.*

🏳️‍🌈 HAPPY PRIDE MONTH, LOVEWINNERS 🏳️‍🌈

I finally have another Bobgate post, but I swear it seems I can never post without referencing the dazzling and incredibly sharp @junos-orbit, who made this observation a while ago about references to roses on the show: the White Rose (York), the Red Rose (Lancaster), and the two parties clashing in what became known as the War of the Roses (between Henry and Edward 👀).

This war, mind you, was a struggle for succession between *family* that dragged the entirety of England into a bloody civil war.

And on ST, we've been unknowingly witnessing a different kind of civil war -- a *Cold War* -- between another White and Red Rose --

Mother Goose (Tharizdun) and the Mind Flayer.

Mother and daughter on the outs, using Hawkins, Indiana as their battlefield and chessboard.

And using our characters as their pawns.

If you didn't already gather from the title, the White and Red Queens are characters from Lewis Carroll's Through the Looking Glass, who battle each other via, you guessed it, a game of chess.

The book marks Alice's second adventure in Wonderland (talk about a world flipped upside down) where she lands in the middle of a chess game as a pawn and encounters arbitrary rules, riddles, and puzzles that defy logic (#conformitygate AND #puzzlegate? 👀)

Here we see clear Alice in Wonderland references in ST5.

I still haven't wrapped my brain around who from ST is meant to parallel who from the extensive cast of characters in TtLG, who all play as chess pieces in the game (you can check it out via the link if you want to try for yourselves).

However I do know who the White Queen and Red Queen are --Mother Goose and the Mind Flayer, respectively.

In Through the Looking Glass, Alice meets the White Queen, who is initially searching for her daughter, Lily.

Like Lilith, the White Queen advises Alice to practice believing impossibilities: "Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast".

But Alice finds the White Queen odd -- because she lives backwards in time.

Here's where I tell you to check out Pt 2 of my Thing theory where I explain how I came to this conclusion, but tldr; I think "the Abyss/Dimension X" isn't in a different dimension at all -- it's planet Earth, MILLIONS of years ago.

That's why all the dinosaurs. + The MG = Lilith/God theory going literal

Mother Goose has been messing with space-time to find her lost daughter.

And then you have the Red Queen --

Often confused with the more villainous Queen of Hearts -- another example of duality when it comes to the MF.

While not a villain in Through the Looking Glass, the Red Queen is the story's antagonist. At the end of the book, Alice turns against the Red Queen, whom she "considers as the cause of all the mischief", and shakes her until the queen changes into her own pet kitten.

Her "bad side" and "good side" -- from spiders to butterflies.

Carroll once described the differences between the two "red" queens:

"I pictured to myself the Queen of Hearts as a sort of embodiment of ungovernable passion – a blind and aimless Fury. The Red Queen I pictured as a Fury, but of another type; her passion must be cold and calm – she must be formal and strict, yet not unkindly; pedantic to the 10th degree, the concentrated essence of all governesses!"

What are governesses meant to do?

Educate. Teach their charges the hard lessons of life, and dole out punishments when they've been naughty. HMMM....

Another thing to note about the Red Queen is that Alice is amazed by her ability to run at breathtaking speeds, yet somehow remain in one place.

A major event in the book is the Red Queen Race, a literary moment that has since been used to describe a number of phenomena, such as

The Red Queen Hypothesis in evolutionary biology describes how species competing with each other end up co-evolving at increasingly rapid speeds in just to survive. Otherwise, they'd go extinct.

And because they're evolving at the same time, no one species ends up gaining great advantage over the other. In other words -- it's a zero-sum game.

However, there are two aspects of evolution attributed to the RQH that may end up proving relevant to ST --

The evolution of sex and the evolution of aging.

Love and time -- the very things all our characters are fighting for and against, respectively.

And speaking of time --

A TIMELINE OF MG & MF IN THE ST-VERSE

**TFS Spoilers Ahead! Though if you made it this far, we're wayyy past spoiler alerts** (also credit to @henrysglock, whose #pattyflayer posts helped me form this timeline)

If the events of TFS are correct (lmao), then here's what I'm guessing most likely happened between MG and MF:

Once upon a time, millions of years ago, two ancient astronauts, a family of aliens -- Mother and Child -- discovered a planet devoid of life and made it their home. Little by little MG imagined, willed, and created life in her Garden of Eden -- the demo-creatures...

Until one day...

1943: The Philadelphia Experiment/Project Rainbow went wrong, transporting the USS Eldridge through time to --

Millions of Years Ago: "Dimension X/the Abyss", the world MG and MF had made home -- planet Earth. The frightened soldiers start shooting; the demo-creatures rightfully attack back.

1943: The ship returns to its proper time, in the same Dimension X, kidnapping the Mind Flayer in the process and separating her from her mother. If the story sounds familiar, it's basically the prologue to the Persephone myth, when the goddess of springtime is stolen from her mother's field and dragged to the Underworld. Or maybe you're thinking about Patty Newby, who learns she was kidnapped, taken from her mother by Principal Newby (a veteran).

1943 - 50s: Over the course of at least a decade, the Mind Flayer was experimented on -- effectively tortured -- by U.S. scientists and military in Rachel, Lincoln County, Nevada **where Area 51 is located.** Dr. Martin Brenner was among those scientists. We learn his father, Captain Brenner, was the sole survivor of the Philadelphia Experiment and allegedly came back a changed man, near-vegetative, with an entirely unique blood type. We also know he is trying to replicate what happened to his father (like Dr. Carrington in The Thing from Another World).

Rachel, NV is also where Henry Creel lived at the time, and where he was attacked by a Russian spy escaping through the cave/mining system with a briefcase, carrying an "alien stone" that showed Henry a vision -- a message from, not the MF like we've all been assuming, but from MG:

1959: The Creels moved to Hawkins and Henry met Patty Newby, who implored him to help her find her mysterious mother. Although their "romance" ended in tragedy, Henry was able to give Patty her mother's location: The Stardust Casino at *300* Las Vegas Blvd. An address in the literal cosmos.

***FYI, Vega is the name of the brightest star in the constellation Lyra. The link I included has a list of MANY stories that thematically tie into what I've encountered through #bobgate/#puzzlegate as a whole, but some highlights: Vega means "falling" or "swooping eagle" in Arabic (Mike connection?), and it also known as the Harp Star, for those who have seen the references to "Jack and the Beanstalk" and moral relativism in my Puzzlegate posts).

???: After an unknown amount of time, Patty (post-injury, using a cane) REUNITES with her mother in a touching scene.

Happy ending right?

Except something clearly happened between them since then, because the Mind Flayer has been wreaking havoc across Hawkins via Vecna and the rest of her Hive Mind like a child throwing a temper tantrum, forcing Mother Goose to step in and create a campaign of her own via Mr. Clarke, Mike, and El, with one objective:

Bring her kid back home.

But what -- or who -- could have driven this wedge between Mother and Daughter?

As always, the answer is MEN.

We first see signs of this in S2 Ep 7: "The Lost Sister", when Kali and El's first one-on-one scene begins with Kali's doubts that El's "Policeman" Hopper is the family she needs: "We'll always be monsters to them."

Their emotional reunion is quickly soured by Kali's desire for revenge against the Hawkins Lab workers responsible for her (and Jane and Terry's) captivity and torture -- "the bad men".

While El shows Ray, the (male) lab tech they track down, mercy for the sake of his daughters, Kali's pain has festered beyond any leniency:

El: "They were kids." Kali: "Does that excuse that man's sins? Were we not also children?"

Kali tells El that after she escaped Hawkins Lab, she went into hiding and found a home and family like "[El] and [her] policeman," but that it didn't last. We never learn who this family is and why it fell apart.

But maybe Nikki and Anna Baxter can tell us.

It seems the only reason Nikki moved to Hawkins in the first place was because her Mom wanted to be with her evil scientist boyfriend, Daniel, who stole Anna's genius research re: regenerating life for his own experiments -- without understanding the full consequences of them.

And just as quickly as they've arrived, they're leaving again -- again because of Anna's relationship with Daniel, which is now falling apart.

Rightfully, Nikki is pissed -- she's tired of being dragged around at her mom's whim all the time, being unable to put down roots... or make friends. But this is what her mom does.

Hm... that's a weird way to phrase it, but okay.

Huh... *looks around nervously*

And poor Mike and El are caught in the middle... foreshadowing?

Let's put a pin in that for now.

It's interesting to see that Anna is the one always going when Nikki wants to stay, but we see a reversal of roles with the White and Red Queens:

The White Queen/Mother is literally stuck in the past, wanting to find and reconnect with her daughter.

The Red Queen/Daughter is too ahead of her time, perpetually misunderstood, always running, but literally getting nowhere. Perhaps unaware she too needs to evolve and grow up a bit to survive (and I say this in she's still a child, like our main Party). Perhaps living with (and running from) the fear she will grow up to be just like her mother.

From "Pre-Oedipal Shaw":

"In Too Good to Be True, Shaw speaks directly about these mothers and daughters through The Patient -- a daughter who has run off with a would-be jewel thief to escape both her mother and the life to which she fears she herself is doomed: 'My dream has become a nightmare. My mother has pursued me to these shores. I cannot shake her off. No woman can shake off her mother. There should be no mothers: only women able to stand by themselves, not clingers...'"

Tale as old as time. Btw, Jonathan ate with that one.

I'll make a final comparison I've made before between --

Mother Goose and the Arthurian White Queen -- Guinevere, whose name literally means "White Fay."

And the Mind Flayer and Guinevere's nemesis, the "chaotic-good, chaotic-evil" enchantress Morgan Le Fay.

Seemingly diametric opposites: classic "good girl" vs "bad girl" dichotomy at play. But it's all a lie.

Because, while Queen Guinevere is meant to represent the ideal woman of Camelot -- pure, devoted, and submissive to her husband, King Arthur -- she is best known for her affair with his best friend, the knight Sir Lancelot, which ultimately leads to Camelot's downfall.

I literally don't blame you, girl. We all know Arthur's gay for Merlin.

Meanwhile Arthur's *half-sister* Morgana -- originally a healer, whose name literally means protector -- is the outcast with the bad reputation because unlike her Christian counterparts at court, she is still in touch with the old pagan ways, practicing magic and not giving AF about her "virtue" and people's thoughts on her or her sexuality.

She does, however, have major beef with Guinevere for breaking up her relationship with her first love, and from then on vows to torment Guinevere until she is driven mad or dies of fright.

This enmity eventually expands to her own brother, Arthur, and the Knights of the Round Table, who she calls out for their falsity.

Some of her best-known plots:

Kidnapping Lancelot

Plotting against her brother's life by planting a false Excalibur, only to be foiled by the Lady of the Lake (El, do we think?)

Poisoning the lance that killed Sir Tristan!!!

And, of course, the famous Green Knight plot where she created an elaborate illusion/prank to expose the cowardice of the Knights of the Round Table and frighten poor Guinevere to death (it didn't really work, aside from helping Sir Gawain... evolve).

But all this to say, the Red Queen's -- the Daughter's -- righteous fury toward her Mother, the White Queen, and Mankind as a whole, has taken over and she is hankering to punish those upholding a system of conformity and lies --

OFF. WITH. THEIR. HEADS.

But, while we know to be scared of the Mind Flayer, I think we should be scared of Mother Goose too.

One final association with the Red Queen Race?

The relentless arms race that's been evolving between the major powers of the world since WWII, but most prominently during the Cold War (one that hasn't actually ended if the present moment is any indication).

Each nation building their arsenal of weapons, motivated to grow it because other nations are doing the same thing. Everyone paranoid by the silent threat of nuclear annihilation, yet simultaneously comforted by the fact that any leader crazy enough to try it, and any leader crazy enough to hit back, would be MAD (guaranteeing Mutually Assured Destruction). [Given who's in office rn? Yeah, we're in trouble.]

An entirely manmade problem, but it seems Mother Goose is ready to cut bait on Planet Earth, her "failed experiment", and hit the Big Red Button as soon as she has the MF back with her.

But clearly the Mind Flayer's "experiment" is not over -- she's still the governess punishing our Party for their lies with her illusions, maybe hoping they can learn their lesson... and end this with new friends?

But what might bring Mother and Daughter together again?

Well, you know what they say -- "the enemy of my enemy is my friend."

Who is their shared enemy?

Kali: "You're now faced with the same choice, Jane. Go back into hiding, and hope they don't find you. Fight, and face them again." El: "Face who?" Kali: "The man who calls himself our father."

That's right -- the ultimate and final Big Bad:

Dr. Martin Brenner -- Man the Destroyer

Stay tuned.

I just kinda can’t believe she doesn’t know about Byler’s ~special~ bond, AND how Mike feels about Will’s…

Also, WHY can no one get ahold of the Byers? Yes, Joyce has a telemarketer job, but I feel like it’s got to be deeper than that.