Me explaining to anyone that will listen that Kylo and Finn were set up to be narrative foils and how they had the most interesting dynamic and potential
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@finnhux
Me explaining to anyone that will listen that Kylo and Finn were set up to be narrative foils and how they had the most interesting dynamic and potential

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John Boyega’s Finn’s adorable face.
Star Wars: The Force Awakens directed by J.J. Abrams
The idea that Anakin Skywalker was being gaslighted is not a controversial statement. Anyone who has seen the prequels or the Clone Wars series knows that Palpatine was gaslighting the shit out of Anakin, but here’s the thing. He wasn’t the only one. Half of why Palpatine’s gaslighting was so damn effective was because Anakin was already being gaslit by the Jedi long before Palpatine ever got his mitts on the kid.
Before we get into examples, lets talk about what gaslighting is. Gaslighting is a type of manipulation wherein the gaslighter tries to undermine the gaslightee’s subjective reality in order to replace it with their own. This can happen both at the interpersonal level (you’re crazy if you think I hit you) and at the societal level (police shoot unarmed Black men because of bad apples, not systemic racism). Common gaslighting tactics include straight up lying; making false promises; vigorous denials coupled with righteous indignation; playing the victim; and insisting that the actual victim is crazy, confused or over reacting. Some symptoms of gaslighting include lack of confidence, general state of confusion, lapses in memory, accepting the gaslighter’s version of reality before one’s own, pervasive feeling that something is wrong both with oneself and the situation, trouble making decisions, and constantly questioning one’s own emotional state.
Now that we know what gaslighting is, let’s get to the receipts. I’ll be sticking with the current canon of the films and cartoons, but I’m sure there are plenty of examples to be had from the old EU and current tie-in material.
Keep reading
Friendly reminder that Padme had a subplot in Episode III where she was going against Palpatine’s actions and she, Bail Organa, and Mon Mothma (her only appearance in the prequel trilogies) basically formed the early version of the Rebel Alliance, but the entire thing was deleted.
Apparently this subplot was cut at the last minute because Lucas wanted to keep the focus on Anakin, but tbh this would have strengthened Anakin’s storyline as well as the film overall. In the final scene of the subplot, Palpatine starts sowing seeds of doubt in Anakin about Padme’s loyalty to the Republic and to Anakin himself, and it helps show that not only did the Empire begin in ROTS, but so too did the Rebellion.
Plus, it has the added value of reinforcing how Palpatine essentially had full control of the Republic long before it formally became the Empire; by the time he declares himself Emperor, the title is little more than a formality. The Petition Of The Two-Thousand is a blacklist that Palpatine can use in the early years of the Empire to scapegoat any political opponents and eliminate them, silencing any opposition. It also gives Padme and clear and powerful legacy in the history of the Rebellion, almost as a martyr.
Finally, we have the artistic value - the contrast between Anakin and Padme, as their politics divides them and they each help to form the Empire and the Rebellion respectively, culminating in the final symbolism of them lying on their respective operating tables clad in black and white.
Also a friendly reminder that Padme also had a subplot where she was beginning to see the evil in Anakin and was actually working with the Rebellion to kill him before it was too late,
REMEMBER THIS SCENE? Remember how sappy and forced the dialogue was?
According to someone who worked on ROTS, there was supposed to be a reveal right after their sappy talk where Anakin leaves and members of the consul come out, revealing that Padme is working with them to try and see Anakin’s motives and whether he is turning to the dark side or not, basically turning Padme from a lovesick girl to an informant who is betraying her husband for the greater good
REMEMBER THIS SCENE AS WELL?
According to the same guy, the original scene would be Padme coming to the planet after Anakin kills the younglings to assasinate Anakin for the Rebellion while there is still time to do so (here’s the original scene art for it)
According to the cast member, as the two are embracing, Padme has a knife in her hands aimed at Anakin’s jugular, knowing the situation and almost accepting that he has lost Padme, he at first doesn’t say anything, basically saying ‘ok then, kill me’. But at the last minute Padme breaks the bond because she realizes she can’t kill the man she loves, this anakin kills her.
This would have done so much not only for Padme’s character, but also for the movie’s overall plot and story and I will be forever angry at Lucas for cutting it! Like…what the hell was he thinking?????
Lucas too far up his own ass to think
A man, a dragon– I love you! Whoever you are. Let it be as you wish. Just don’t go now.

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this cast is the best
I hate listened to a reylow podcast that youtube recommended me and I just listened to a couple of reylows going on about how Finn isn't Rey's equal. They insist that because Finn is standing of the lower step during his confession scene and looking up at Rey that is JJ showing us that Finn isn't her equal. And they insist that Kylo is bowing to Rey in knightly worship in the "interrogation" scene. Other gems include that Finn needs her to "babysit" him. But you know they /swear/ they love Finn
It’s funny they should mention that scene, because I’d been thinking for a while how strongly Finn and Rey’s parting scene on Takodana reminded me of the parting between Rodrigo and Jimena from El Cid (1961).
I mean here’s the woman, climbing up on a higher step and turning to face the man for a Very Important Conversation just before he leaves we know you watched the scene over and over and were just itching to try it Rey you extra bitch
The woman tells the man how unhappy she is with his decision to go.
The man, in words or gesture, confesses his feelings for the woman. This part comes near the end of the conversation in El Cid but at the middle in the TFA scene, since Finn unlike Rodrigo must tell the truth of himself first.
The man makes a heartfelt request to the woman, and that’s exactly what it is–a request, respecfully presented without any pressure as opposed to “I can take whatever I want” or “I’ll destroy her”. As seen below, the woman refuses his request freely and without repercussions.
In each case the woman refuses, asserting her own needs and feelings, while also reiterating her unhappiness with the man’s leaving. This is greeted without any rancor or even a repeat request on the man’s part.
The man says good-bye with complicated feelings. He knows he’s leaving the woman unhappy and she doesn’t want him to go, but he does what he has to do. And she lets him, without threats or coercion, because when you love and respect someone you also respect their decisions.
That doesn’t mean she’s not sad as hell, of course. She climbs down from the steps she was standing on, the better to watch him go.
And she watches and watches, so sadly…
While the man in turn can barely bring himself to go, and looks back at her before he leaves for good.
Finn standing on a lower step than Rey is in fact a very recognizable romantic/knightly trope with the knight gazing up at his lady in adoration. It’s pretty much a mirrored version of the El Cid scene, as seen above. THAT is what knightly worship looks like.
Also, Kylo “bowing” to Rey? Nah, we’ve seen this before, a man invading a woman’s personal space after tying her up, only for her to ridicule and rebuff him (putting under a cut for potentially triggering content and also Hunchback of Notre Dame gifs):
Keep reading
The idea that Finn isn’t Rey’s “equal” is so sickeningly racist. You don’t see fandoms saying a white man is not an equal to a white woman. I’ve never seen anyone go “Han isn’t Leia’s equal” even though she was from a royal family and he was a smuggler. Their different social statuses are acknowledged, but not equals? HanLeia commentary says the opposite.
I highly doubt anyone ever interpreted that scene from El Cid as Charlton Heston not being Sofia Loren’s equal.
And it’s not about Force Sensitivity, either, although that’s a good proxy for race, considering that, at this point, being FS is interpreted as having superior blood (no matter that Rey’s parents were allegedly worthless drunks). But no one’s saying Poe isn’t Rey’s equal – quite the opposite, despite their limited interaction.
It’s antiblackness, full stop.
Finn was an elite Stormtrooper, not a Janitor
Almost all enlisted soldiers are responsible for sanitation at least once in their careers unless given certain privileges that are not standard. It doesn’t matter if it’s fiction or in reality, most of the people serving in the military, will work sanitation at least once in their military career.
As a Stormtrooper, Finn was so damn good, both Hux and Phasma considered him the best in the entire Order. Phasma claimed he was Officer material. Hux wanted to make him a Captain one day! Finn carried the FN corps and his squad as the best soldier to the point where he could complete simulated missions on his own.
Fun fact, Finn might have “moped the floors” of The supremacy after the day was over, but what was his actual job on the ship?
He served as one of the executioners.
There are many things about Finn that he hasn’t divulged yet, mostly because he is ashamed of his time in the First Order and Lucasfilms refuses to give him a novel or comic series detailing his past.
The only reason Finn wasn’t already a ranking soldier by the time TFA rolled around was because of his compasion. During an earlier mission on a mining colony, Finn and his squad were ordered to gun down a large group of protesters. Finn was the only one that refused. The worst part is? Phasma had lied to Finn, telling him the mission was against the New Republic soldiers, not civilians.
That’s right! Jakku wasn’t his first mission! And this isn’t a continuity error, that story was told in the Before the Awakening novel. While everyone was celebrating a successful mission, Finn was back in the simulator alone, training and slowly coming to the rea that he could never be like the other Troopers. Both JJ and John were aware of this story.
Finn told Rey he made the choice not to kill for the First Order during his first mission, he never said that his first mission was on Jakku.
Finn tried to bury that mission down, but Slip’s death, accompanied with all of the innocent slaughter, brought him right back there in a fit of PTSD.
Why do so many assume Finn is some helpless cinnamon roll that needs rescuing? Finn is one of the best soldiers on both sides of the war.
Look back on both TFA and TLJ and pay attention:
Finn is an expert marksman and almost never misses a shot with any blaster or range weapon.
Finn is familiar with all of the weapons counting Starkiller base, the mini Death Star canon, and all Range and Melee weapons.
Finn memorized the layouts of both Starkiller base and Snoke’s ship the supremacy, to the point that he was able to re-create a map of them for the resistance. That, or he managed to make duplicates, which is equally as impressive since he was never caught for it.
Finn defeated Captain Phasma, the literal best soldier in the First Order.
Finn didn’t just hold Kylo off, he fought Kylo on even ground, impressed him with his lightsaber skills enough that forced Kylo to use even more of the dark side to beat him. Mind you this was Finn’s first fight against Kylo. How did Poe and Rey fair against Kylo their first time? Got caught without landing a hit.
Finn isn’t a coward
I’m not really sure how not wanting to murder innocent civilians = coward, and I don’t think I want to know.
I’m also not sure how wanting to not fight with a Volunteer militia after already saving the galaxy and getting your spine almost severed = coward.
Finn did not join the First Order. He was abducted from his family and forcibly indoctrinated into the FO.
Finn never joined the Resistance, but he damn sure helped them more than any other soldier.
Finn saved Poe from more torture and execution.
Finn saved Rey from the First Order Stormtroopers that were looking for BB8, then immediately after saved her from an air strike that only he recognized.
Finn, after rightly wanting to just live a life away from war, returned and warned Han Solo and the others about the attack on the New Republic, before he even knew Rey was gone.
Fin fought outnumbered alongside side Chewie and Han with a freaking lightsaber.
Finn planned out the mission to destroy Starkiller base with the Resistance and led it.
Finn prioritized the mission over saving Rey, and only decided to look for her when his portion of the mission was done.
Finn dueled Kylo Ren, grandson of Darth Extra.
Then right after that he planned to go find LUKE SKYWALKER on his own and warn Rey and Him About the attack on the fleet.
He then volunteered to save the fleet from death, because only he knows how to sneak in to the First Order’s ships.
Let’s not even talk about how the plan almost worked.
Or how Finn beat the helm out of other trained Stormtroopers and Phasma.
Or even how Finn motivated the resistance to take a final stand against the First Order.
And his suicide run to destroy the mini Death Star canon.
Let’s not forgot how everyone overlooks the fact that unless the Reysky theory is true, Finn had a closer and longer relationship with Han Solo than Rey did!
We have Han praising Finn, because he notices he’s clearly still going through something internally.
Han literally giving Finn fatherly advice, because he knows Finn’s already fallen hard for this independent, violent woman Rey, and Han has plenty of experience thanks to Leia with dealing with that stuff.
Finn fighting alongside Chewie and Han against a platoon of Stormtroopers and each of them protecting the other with their life.
Han encouraging Finn and giving him confidence when he was around people that would have shot him on sight if he was in his Stormtrooper armor.
Then there was the time Finn, Han and Chewie went on a suicide mission behind enemy lines together to destroy Starkiller base and save Rey.
Then of course there’s Han being Finn’s mood killer, and probably the only time I’ve seen Rey roll her eyes at Han.
And finally Finn did indeed react to Han’s death by choking out “Solo” and his fight with Kylo was more than just protecting Rey, but avenging his friend and comrade Han.
Let’s not forgot how Leia instantly hit it off with Finn, thanked him for saving Poe, and praised his bravery for leaving the First Order. In hindsight, Leia probably wished Kylo was more like Finn.
And let’s also remember how not only did Finn know exactly who Luke Skywalker was in TFA, but he was literally only person in the entire Resistance who stepped forward and wanted to fight Kylo with Luke. BARE FUCKING HANDED I MIGHT ADD!
My favorite thing to hear is how people like Kylo because he’s a victim of child abuse and he’s suffering with the thought of hurting others.
Kylo is NOT a victim of child abuse. Y’all can keep editing his wookipedia page to say he is, but all forms of canon disagree. Ben Solo had a happy and loving family, and he loved them. Kylo’s life went down hill when he sided with Space Hugh Hefner.
Wanna see a real abuse victim who’s dealing with the pain of watching innocents die?
Finn, the enslaved soldier who was stolen away from his family to fight for a fascist organization in a conflict he didn’t start, is having a PTSD panic attack because the closet thing he had to a friend just died in his arms and he had to watch as a group of innocent civilians, men, woman, and children, were slaughtered in front of him. Mind you, this is the second time according to canon he’s seen this happen.
I’m tired of Finn being erased in this franchise, because of some bull excuses to cover up their racial preference. Finn is the co-protagonist of the sequel movies, and that’s not changing, especially since JJ Abrams and John Boyega are back together for IX.
Kill Ben
FinnReyRose
A woman in a wedding dress, Rey, lies wounded in a chapel in El Paso, Texas, having been attacked by the Deadly Knights of Ren Assassin Squad. She tells their leader, Kylo Ren, that she is pregnant with her fiance’s baby. He shoots her in the head.
No one leaves the Knights of Ren alive.
Finn had been running late to his own wedding. A mistake that saves his life when Kylo Ren and his band of killers fill the church with bullets and leave after murdering the Bride. The unsuspecting Groom bursts into the chapel to find everyone in attendance dead…except for his heavily pregnant wife to-be, Rey. Reeling from the death of their unborn baby and facing the knowledge that his wife will possibly never wake up from her coma, Finn joins forces with Rey’s old flame and former partner in crime, Rose Tico, to kill Ben Solo.
Adam Driver as Ben Solo in Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2017)

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like my major issue with kylo ren discourse and other villain discourse on this site in general is the extreme polarity where, on the one hand, you have people rushing to relegate all atrocities he’s ever committed, all his propensities for darkness and violence, to parental abuse, whereby ben solo is separated from kylo ren, and the former is utterly, innocently tragic while the latter is an evil that needs to be purified, and on the other you have mass outcry against the very idea of kylo ren, and these banal moralistic conclusions about him embodying Evil Fascism School Shooter Nazis, such that the only acceptable response to the character should be a desire to see him utterly destroyed, and i hate both sides of this equation because each camp is ultimately afraid to do what villains require us to and that is hold things in tension, accept contradiction, concede that there aren’t any easy answers, that sometimes good people are victims who eventually turn into abusers, and their victimization doesn’t excuse or edify their evil actions, but neither does it mean their victimization should be erased, and there are no easy answers, and trying to rehabilitate a villain back into the moral system of the world they reject is just as reductive as wanting any threat to the moral system to be thoroughly destroyed. characters like kylo operate best when we allow them to teach us something about the world, something complex and irreducible and difficult that can’t be easily slotted into redemptive romance or irredeemable evil. there’s a reason villains exist in fictional worlds, and we should strive to learn from their existence rather than negate or destroy them.
my version of TLJ
@iceandbone @finallygaveintothesirencall
This would have been much better than the actual movie.
That would’ve been awesome
No, they can’t do that! It might have given Rey some character or emotion to her part! And having a Maul (look alike) would have been too cool! Can’t have any of that in a disney film!
We could’ve had it aaaaaallllllllll
These are not the legitimate concerns you were looking for.
why are star wars planets more boring than earth and our solar system like sure we’ve seen desert, snow, diff types of forest, beach, lava, rain, but like…
rainbow mountains (peru)
red soil (canada/PEI)
rings (saturn’s if they were on earth)
bioluminescent waves
northern lights (canada)
salt flats (bolivia, where they filmed crait but did NOTHING COOL WITH IT except red dust?? like??? come ON)
and cool fauna like the touch me not or like, you know, the venus flytrap.. and don’t get me started on BUGS like… we have bugs cooler than sw aliens
BASICALLY like???? come on star wars you had one (1) job where are the cool alien species
I KNOW!! I did a report on filming locations in Star Wars last year and just made a list of places that looked so surreal they could make a convincing other planet. You covered some on my list but if I could just add a couple more:
Tsingy di Bemaraha, Madagascar
Zhangye Danxia, China (similar to the Rainbow Mountains in terms of appearance)
Chocolate Hills, Philippines
Giant’s Causeway, Northern Ireland
So many missed opportunities with cool ass things on Earth, Lucasfilms smh…
Earth is effing amazing!
Quebrada de Humahuaca, Argentina
Lake Retba, Senegal
Tepui, Venezuela
Tianzi Mountains, China
#damn earth is cool#also shit this hit 6k?#and for all the comments going “but this would destroy the ecosystem”#a) cgi b) cgi has advanced since the prequels and used in moderation could be cool c) this is just pointing out that earth is badass#yet lucasfilms keeps using the same 3 flavors of planet#the prequels were almost all cg and some places were entirely computer created giving that unnatural feel#if you cg in an actual place once in a while you can still get it to look cool without destroying an ecosystem (via @wearethesparkk)
You’re absolutely right!
Not to mention how they went after John Boyega for a full year before TFA even came out. But y'all were falling over yourselves to defend Adam Driver because someone called him ugly once. And let’s not rule out the white women who are just as complicit as their male counterparts. Y'all are trash too.
But funny how its fandoms having a mostly teen girl fanbase that get called the most “cringey”and annoying fanbase while star wars; which has a mostly male fanbase is upto this type of shit everyday and is never acknowledged. I dont care weather harry potter fangirls “need to stop making everything about harry potter and read another book”.Girls who write their hogwarts houses in their bio or “make their entire personalities about the fandom they are in” are the LAST thing we need to worry or make fun about when fandoms like star wars,marvel,GOT etc has been getting away with harassing people of color/other marginalized people who are creating the fandom content.
Its sad that so many of even the “woke” bloggers here too are more invested in making fun of teen girls for having simple interests than those white cis and straight members of these fandoms who harass media creators for trying to introduce more diversity in the content.If you want more diversity in your movies,shows etc, then you first have to call out the people who are harassing the creator from doing so.
How can you make a list like this without including the guy whose hate for his inclusion was so rampant that it made national news? I’m going to need people to remember two things: 1) The hashtag #BoycottStarWars was created in large part because John Boyega was cast in TFA and 2) There wasn’t a single person from Lucasfilm or Disney that publicly came to his defense, that I can remember. We even have a person in this very comment thread that still seems mad that Finn is and was always meant to be a main character.

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lots of posts about ahsoka mentoring rey.
not enough posts about ahsoka mentoring finn even though they have far more experiences in common (raised by militaristic organisations from a very young age, were noted to be prodigies, both defected from said organisations, fought their ex-superiors after defecting)
AND the climax of both the ahsoka/vader and finn/phasma fight was the destruction of the mask leading to a sliver of vader and phasmas faces being seen. thw parallels… and ahsoka was good friends with rex and is clearly going to get chummy with sabine, both defectors from the empire… what im saying is they should start a club
anyway reys animated sw series mentor with whom she shares a hard early life of scavenging… who’s displayed the same pull to the dark side… who’s probably eaten as many poorly cooked rats as she has… is ezra bridger.
“Traitor!”
Ok but I feel like this guy knew him and I want that story
Need to know the relationship between Finn, this stormtrooper, and the one that died in Finn’s arms.
I already read a fic that gave the dying trooper designation FN-2003. I need some fanon to fill in the gaps.
FN2187 was popular and his defection pierced the hearts of the entire fn troop
YOOOOOOOO I HAVE THE CANONICAL ANSWER FOR THIS AND I’M SEEING ALL THESE TR-8R POSTS I CANNOT STAY SILENT.
Greg Rucka’s Star Wars novel Before the Awakening is A) Quite good and B) Explains much about Finn’s stormtrooper training and social circle leading up to the movie.
In a nutshell:
Finn was trained in a squad of four boys: Him (FN-2187), Nines, Zero and Slip.
Nines and Zero have nicknames based on their alphanumerical designations (Zero’s is FN-2003, likely used by the ficcer mentioned above, Nines ended in 9s, etc.). Slip was called slip because he was a fuckup.
Turns out, most troopers have nicknames
Why does FN-2187 not have a nickname? Because nobody really likes him. An older trooper tells him straight to his face: he’s an outsider. It just happens to some troopers.
Why is this extra tragic? Is it because Finn’s a shitty trooper? NO. He’s actually top of his little trooper class. He’s the fucking bomb, with a blaster, with tactics, with hand-to-hand weapons. Phasma’s got extremely high expectations for him. (what a fuckin mary sue amirite)
So why is this actually extra tragic? What’s Phasma’s one problem with him? Finn cares too much. He cares about keeping his squad alive.
He cares about going back for his friends more than the mission objective SOUND FAMILIAR?
So Phasma tells him to stop coddling Slip or face consequences. He does.
And then: the skirmish on Jakku. A trooper dies and Finn loses his final shred of faith in the First Order. Who is that trooper? PROBABLY SLIP, IT REALLY SEEMS LIKE. Basically Finn’s brother, even if he never really fit in with his squad.
And then: the first thing Poe does is give him a nickname based on his alphanumerical designation JUST LIKE HIS TROOPER FAMILY, NINES AND ZERO AND SLIP, WHO NEVER LIKED HIM ENOUGH TO GIVE HIM ONE.
IN CONCLUSION the trooper in the gifset above who recognizes Finn on sight (and who has been meme-nicknamed TR-8R) is likely Zero or Nines.
IN CONCLUSION finn my bby D: