this is an old post ik but i wanted to explain why so many people who experienced programming are polyfragmented systems
there is no required type of trauma to be diagnosed with C-DID/polyfragmented DID but there are things that make it more likely such as:
1. experiencing trauma from a young age (younger than required for DID to develop, like from infancy or toddlerhood)
2. having multiple abusers
3. having multiple âtypesâ of trauma or experiencing multiple unrelated traumatic events (such as being abused at home and having a childhood illness or experiencing physical abuse form your parents and sexual abuse from a teacher)
4. experiencing things that are very complicated or confusing for a child
so while not all programmed systems develop C-DID, it is common just because things like having multiple abusers or experiencing multiple types of trauma are causes of polyfragmentation as well as common experiences for programmed systems.
common alpha programs (base programs/starting programs that create the structures for other programs) can cause systems to split. some programmed systems (like myself) are programmed to split extremely easily and/or are constantly splitting fragments. for us we split fragments all the time and if they arenât used theyâre absorbed by preexisting alters. we also have an internal handler that can force splits, so like if she doesnât like how an alter is behaving she can split them into smaller aspects of their personality and rearrange them to be different.
splitting is common during trauma and stress, so when you go through something like torture and programming you will naturally split more than a system with less complex trauma.
complex DID also involves complex internal structures which are often programmed.
not all programmed systems will be polyfragmented. their programmers could have intentionally made them a small system (or just one without a lot of fragments or complex internal structure), their mind could have simply not decided it was necessary to keep the body safe, the system could have developed before the programming and maintained the original structure, the system could have been older, their programming could have been outside of the âtypicalâ structure of programming and so they may have no gone through all of the risk factors i mentionedâŚthere are infinite reasons why a programmed system would not be polyfragmented. most that iâve met are but itâs in no way a given
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âYouâre so strong for surviving!!â I feel more weak than anything. My body deteriorates every fucking day because of my trauma. I canât eat. I can hardly drink. I canât go to the bathroom nothing. You think Iâm surviving? No. Iâm slowly dying. I always have been. It gets worse everyday. Iâm not strong for living through something.
If you think itd be "fun" to start a cult, or even just to join one knowingly, block me.
If you call things a cult just because you dont like them, block me.
If you call things a cult just because its a group of people following something harmless you consider abnormal, block me.
If you talk or write or mame art about cults without doing at least the bare minimum research, block me.
If you think that people who survived cults are lying, block me.
If you think that cults are a made up phenomenon, block me.
If you deny something is a cult just because it doesn't look violent and scary from the outside, block me.
If you blame cult survivors or call them liars for staying in the cult, or returning to the cult after leaving, block me.
I have my reasons, but also I am seeing a LOT of cult support online recently. Either direct support, joining them, people desiring to become a cult leader, or watering down what cults actually are. This may just be my own page, but whatever. The point stands. Its not fucking funny. Never was and never will be.
Take it seriously, do your research before pretending to know what you're talking about, and have respect, or block me.
Non survivors of ramcoa will here the more extreme and âunbelievableâ stories from survivors like âI was abducted and raped/tortured by aliensâ and not peal back the layers of why someone might remember something like that happening. Abusers will simulate all sorts of unbelievable senecios to put their victims through, while wearing elaborate costumes in sets designed to look like different locations. Itâs not that the victim didnât go through said experience, itâs just the victim was tricked into believing it happened a different way so they wouldnât be believed
(This post is agreeing with OP, just in case that isnt clear. "You" is not directed, it is the general "you".)
Other similar things we have heard of include fake surgeries, fake injuries, fake body deformities or even changing their species etc, using prosthetics and accurate sets of operating rooms and such.
Also, reminder; these people know exactly what theyre doing. The victim re-examining their memories, even if they are CLEAR memories, will probably not be able to tell that theyre constructed - because thats the whole point.
Sets are made to be as accurate and believable as possible, costumes are realistic and believable to the victim, sensory inputs are controlled to fully immerse the victim in the scenario. Because the POINT is for the victim to believe them when nobody else will.
Also, existing programs can be triggered to cover up, change or remove any giveaways like being moved to and from the set, preparation, conflicting memories, or their own beliefs.
Please do not shove these stories to the side just because it sounds like nonsense to you or because they "don't make sense" or "sound like lies" - thats the point. Think HARD about it before you dismiss them.
TW: light discussion of trauma anniversaries in the context of programming.
Mostly just an annoyed ramble, but wanted to TW just in case.
Being a programmed system with a less common trauma anniversary relating to rituals and such sucks because everyone's like "Oh be careful around systems during Halloween :( they could get triggered!!!"
Which is fine and all, I don't mind this AT ALL. Do whatever you see fit.
But ours is related to Christmas, not Halloween. And the second it turns November (it starts in early October tbh, but it gets SO much worse as soon as Halloween is over), everyone's ranting and getting excited about Christmas, and it just sucks that people don't consider other religious holidays as trigger potentials be ause nobody ever seems to take us seriously when we bring it up.
Everyone wants to talk about warning or avoiding orange, black, purple, etc, avoiding themes of Halloween creatures and whatnot. But if we mention that red white and green together, or those specific angel figurines, or the music, make us get triggered? Then we just get called some variation of a party pooper.
Its not a huge deal for the community I guess, but for us it really is.
Doesn't help that the body's birthday is around that time too.
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A common miscommunication I've seen inside and outside OEA spaces is the comparison of conditioning and programming. This is only made further complicated by the fact they exist on a similar scale, where not all conditioning is programming, but all programming is conditioning. This post serves to point out the differences between the two. Any sources may contain triggering content.
Programming
the far end of conditioning
The process of programming can be defined as "systematic torture that blocks the victimâs capacity for conscious processing, and then employs suggestion and/or classical and operant conditioning to implant thoughts, directives, and perceptions in the unconscious mind, often in newly-formed trauma-induced dissociated identities, that force the victim to do, feel, think, or perceive things for the purposes of the programmer. The objective is for the victim to follow directives with no conscious awareness." This is also referred to as Trauma-Based Coersive Mind Control, Torture Based Mind Control, or Trauma Based Mind Control (TBMC). [1]
TBMC within the community can refer to things outside of just programming. Because of this, when not referring to programming, the general term 'Mind Control' (MC) will be used to avoid confusion.
Programming uses the dissociative capacity of children, through extreme abuse and suggestion, to create alters to specifically serve the programmers needs. The purpose of programming is to have these alters respond to cues or triggers to make them perform specific acts. Ideally, the victim will not know what's going on, and a majority of the abuse will be hidden from them. [2, pg 437]
Conditioning
a natural process
There are many types of conditioning, however when comparing to programming and MC, we are more than likely referring to Classical, Operant, and Fear Conditioning. [3 pg 69, pg 88-90][4, pg 5 ] For this reason, this is what I'm going to focus on. I'm going to try my best to make this simple to understand!
Conditioning does not have to be purposeful. At its base, it's a natural process all people go through based on their environment. For example, your phone is initially a neutral stimulus, but a notification sound (conditioned stimulus) now triggers an emotional response (conditioned response.) This is an example of classical conditioning. [5]
A very simple definition of Classical Conditioning is "an unconscious process where an automatic, conditioned response becomes associated with a specific stimulus." [6]
A very simple definition of Operant Conditioning is "a method of learning that uses rewards and punishment to modify behavior." [7]
A very simple definition of Fear Conditioning is "when initially neutral stimuli, such as tones, lights, or distinctive environmental settings, are paired with aversive stimuli such as electric shocks or loud noises, which reflexively activate unconditional fear responses." A subset of Classical Conditioning. [8]
Conditioning can be considered the base for all mind control, while not being harmful in itself. Conditioning is a natural process that affects how we react and learn to our environment.
Still confused on the differences? Don't worry, we'll compare them now.
Comparison
All programming is conditioning, but not all conditoning is programming
The most important differences between these two concepts are:
1. Intentional and conscious actions (abuse)
2. The usage of dissociative parts (creating, organizing, programming)
3. Age of victim (Child, adult)
Programmers rely on multiple types of conditoning to control their victims on a higher scale. However, this relies on the creation and use of dissociative parts of a child, while conditoning by itself doesn't.
A good example of this is fear conditoning in PTSD. For example, say someone was attacked (unconditioned stimulus) by a short man (neutral stimulus). They then become fearful of other short men (conditioned response), despite knowing they're of no harm. This also happens in many other disorders, such as other anxiety disorders and OCD. [9]
The conditioned response here was not created purposely, nor did it use dissociative parts, and is possible at any age. This means it doesn't meet the requirements for programming.
But this doesn't account for purposeful actions, as may occur in abuse, so let's go over that next.
Purposeful conditioning (an example for the purposes of thought reform) has been documented in prisoners, war captives, and other abuse victims. [1]. These things are also common in cults and other high control groups, however conditioning can occur outside of organized groups.
An example of this is a victim having a conditioned behavior to 'walk on eggshells' around their abuser to avoid outbursts. In a more extreme example, prisoners of war may go through torture under the hands of their captors. This torture may focus on changing their beliefs or making them act a certian way- however, it would be an example of conditioning, not programming. This is due to the fact that programming must begin at an early age with the usage of dissociative parts. [10][1]
Despite all of this, conditioning can result in symptoms similar to programming, as they are very similar. For example:
1. The urge to go back to abuser(s)
2. False beliefs given by abuser(s)
3. Amnesia regarding abuse
etc..
The difference is the triggers and automatic reactions present in programming won't be possible from conditioning alone. If any pre-requisite isn't established (age, purpose, parts), it is not possible for conditioning to become programming.
--
Tldr: Programming is one of the most complicated versions of mind control. It utilizes conditioning and dissociative parts to make child victims perform automatic tasks according to their abusers. However, conditioning (and mind control) isn't inherently programming. A conditioned victim at any age may perform their abusers commands through terrified submission, religious indoctrination, torture, or other forms of Mind Control. These experiences are similar, but different to programming.
Myths and Misinformation
1. "Accidental' Programming.
1a. Due to the fact that it is possible to accidentally condition a person, some people have taken to assuming that programming can be accidental. This is untrue. All programming is purposeful, organized and conscious by those doing it. An abuser will need to know what they're doing in order for programming to be sucessful. An abuser does not have to know the specific science behind programming to know what they're doing works.
2. Programming is the only type of 'Mind Control.'
2a. Programming is a severe and sophisticated form of mind control, but it is not the only type, and certainly not the only kind that is perpetuated by organized abuse. You do not have to have gone through programming to be included in the 'MC' part of RAMCOA. A couple source I've listed goes into detail, here: [1][4]
3. Programming is 'More valid/More traumatizing/etc' than other types of MC.
3a. There is no valid way to measure or compare trauma. How everyone reacts to stress is different, especially children. Trauma olympics, especially among RAMCOA victims, is unecessary and harmful. You don't even have to had gone through MC to be a RAMCOA victim. Focus on healing and helping yourself- not how bad your trauma is, or how bad anyone elses trauma is.
Thank you for reading. If you have any questions, feel free to send an ask or reply to this post. A reminder that I am not a professional, I am flawed, and am just doing my best.
If you donât believe RAMCOA/TBMC is a genuine thing, please block me
Iâm tired of seeing people post about how âit doesnât existâ and say that âramcoa doesnât exist but the trauma does.â Itâs irritating to be told what I went through doesnât exist and does exist at the same time.
Itâs important to hear survivors and to be able to understand that this shit happens and still does. Cults, trafficking rings, etc. they all happen. Just because you think that someone canât force a system doesnât mean itâs not possible. Do you know how much trauma that someone faces within shit like that? How easy it is for someone to see that thereâs so much dissociation and use it against them?
Iâm tired of so many people thinking that ramcoa survivors arenât real. We are, we exist.
