Dæmons on the brain

I'm not just disinterested in form finding for myself, I am actively opposed to it. My inherent fluidity is an essential part of who I am and I need complete freedom to be anything I want to be at any point in time. I'm a metaphorical shapeshifter, I constantly evolve as a person - I don't think I'll ever be settled, no matter how old I am. I just know that if I decided on a form I would end up feeling stifled and suppressed by it, no matter how much I liked the animal. Of course there are things about myself that are consistent, or slow to change - I'd be lost if I didn't have any foundation at all. But the idea of form finding over and over again sounds like a hell of a lot of work, and I don't want to become stuck with one form out of a lack of desire to go searching again. At least with labels I can drop ones or switch them as I wish, with less work involved. And even in that case, I tend to lean towards broad umbrella terms to avoid being stifled by that too. I suppose when it comes down to it, an inability to settle precludes the possibility of finding a form at all, and is antithetical to the practice itself. So I let Solaris transform according to his preferences, and don't worry about form finding at all.

I hope you don't mind me rambling a bit on the subject! This is more of a general infodump thing, not really directed at you specifically, but your post is a nice jumping-off point. c:

I think sometimes form-finding can be assumed to be a fundamental aspect of having a daemon or practicing daemonism, but it isn't. There's always (or, at least, for as long as we've been in the community) been dae/mians who don't form-find. Animal forms as a whole are 100% optional – an aspect of our culture, sure, but not a rule one has to follow.

The thing with form-finding is that it is always a deeply personal practice, and it is usually difficult. It requires a level of focused introspection that can be exhausting, overwhelming, or even self-destructive if approached in the wrong way.

Nobody should see form-finding as an obligation. Nobody should see having a fitting and/or settled daemon form as a requirement, mandatory end goal, or something you need to be a "real" daemian.

And even for those who do seek a settled form, you are not obligated to use any of TDF's systems, and a settled form is no less valid for not doing so.

Those of us who do engage with form-finding, do it because we find it fun! And that's how it should be. It's a hobby!

First and only rule of form-finding: if it sucks, hit the bricks!

For me, because I actively enjoy form-finding, the idea of my form changing (because I change as a person, or because my understanding of myself changes) doesn't sound daunting at all – it sounds exciting!

It's actually pretty common on the form-finding side of the community for people to get itchy feet with their forms purely because the search is fun. Sometimes committing to a form that does really, deeply, meaningfully fit you is actually the hard part!

Form-finding should never be stifling. It should never discourage someone from feeling like they can change, nor make them resist changes as they happen.

Because of the nature of form-finding in the real world, settling is never going to be literal, solid, and definite. There is no way for anyone to know if the form that fits them now will fit them in five years... there's no way to know it'll still fit a week from now! And that's fine!

There's different ways to approach the concept of settling, for sure. Some people don't use it at all. And some people treat it with more gravity than others.

For me? Settling means I know who I am today. It's a way of saying, this is deeply, meaningfully representative of the person I am right now. I consider a form settled not based on timescale, or predictions of the future, but simply on how well it fits me in the present moment.

That meaning doesn't evaporate if, later on down the line, I change and the form no longer fits. That form was still a step along my journey. It's one of the people I have been, even if it isn't who I am now.

There's no way to have a helpful system of introspection while disincentivising the natural, inevitable experience of change. We should embrace change where it happens. How else can we grow as people?

Daemon forms shouldn't make you feel like you're bound to the person you are right now. They're not the name of a finished novel – they're chapter titles in a work that's still being written!

If you don't like form-finding, then the idea of having to do this over and over again probably sounds tiring. In that case: you don't have to form-find!

It's a hobby! You do it for fun. I promise, no matter how it might look from the outside, some of us do just enjoy this. xD (Because we're weird nerds who love animals. We're the sort of people who read wikipedia for fun, and who follow animal science like it's the news).

It's a very particular thing. It's really not for everyone.

And not every daemian does it, because for some folks, it wouldn't be fun, helpful, or meaningful in a way that makes the effort worthwhile.

And I don't think any less of anyone for that, same as I don't think less of people who don't enjoy drawing or crochet or open world video games like I do. Because it's just a hobby! c:

I say all this because I worry sometimes people get the wrong impression of the whole... tone and vibe of the form-finding side of the community. And I totally understand where that impression comes from! It hasn't always been treated so lightheartedly, or even as freely optional as it is now. Things have changed a lot over the years!

I think maybe form finding has just always sounded unfun to me and that's a big part of why I haven't pursued it. Or, if not unfun, then at least daunting? I get now that if it's a fun hobby you'd want to get to redo it now and then if the opportunity happens to arise - honestly, it previously didn't occur to me before that finding a new form in the future was so accepted! Maybe I should have guessed so, but it's always hard to know without being told which aspects of the IRL practice are the same as the books and which are different.

With the new wisdom that I can change my mind later and the knowledge that I'm a hell of a nerd with a special interest in animals... it sounds more interesting to me, but honestly my brain blanks out at the thought of where to even start. What would be your advice for starting the process or beginning to research it, if I dip my toes in just to see if I actually dislike it or not? I've dismissed it based on assumptions and I'd kind of like to know whether my avoidance is actually warranted, in the spirit of "don't knock it till you try it".

It does occur to me that I have more lasting aspects of my personality beneath the variation - if there was any form that tapped into that I wouldn't mind having an animal mascot just for the hell of it. I think recontextualizing it as "for fun" and not extremely serious helps. Not that it isn't both, or more serious for some folks than others - but removing some of the implicit gravity diminishes my "ick" about it a bit.

And yeah, there's this huge, gaping hole in daemonism knowledge outside of the community itself (most of which circulates through conversation). That's the reason I wanted to make this blog in the first place – to try and clear some things up and give a little view into what the community is like right now, so folks aren't having to rely purely on stuff written 10+ years ago which doesn't always reflect the modern practice and culture. (We don't have much of an essay-writing culture outside of form interpretations)!

I have been meaning to write some more stuff on form-finding on here. This convo's a good prompt to actually do that! So maybe I'll finally get to working on those introductions to the different form-finding systems I've been meaning to do, now. I'm just very distractible honestly. xD

To answer your questions...

There's more than one different systems for form-finding, or you can do it in your own unique way if that appeals more!

The form-finding systems are pretty different. They represent different things about a person, based on different ideas / knowledge about an animal. So, your first thing to do would be to choose one to focus on! (You can use any or all of them, but I wouldn't recommend trying to learn them at the same time. Recipe for confusion, that).

Your basic options for existing systems are:

Analytic: my domain ahah. Focuses on real-life animal behaviour, and personality traits in people. So, my analytic form reflects that I'm adaptable, curious, assertive, community-oriented but autonomous, etc. Analytic is very much about patterns of behaviour, on both the animal and human side.

Symbolic: naturally, is based on animal symbolism! That is, any cultural ideas associated with animals -- myths and folklore, pop culture, stereotypes, and so on. Symbolic typically represents a person more holistically, with behaviour being a smaller and optional part of it. It often represents values, themes, life narrative, or roles.

If you check out TDF, you'll also see a lot of references to the pullman system. This is essentially a sub-type of symbolic daemon form, and it centres around emulating the way daemon forms are assigned in His Dark Materials. There's not a hard line between the pullman system and symbolic form-finding. The main difference is that the pullman system is typically more specific or narrowed-down in certain ways.

If you decide not to use the systems, you'd be looking for what we call a personal form. They're no less "real" or less meaningful than the others, just less structured! If a person wanted to find a meaningful daemon form without the hassle of learning a system, personal forms are a really nice option. However, there's not so much external guidance or structure you can get with those, so it can be more overwhelming! The systems exist to, basically, narrow down your options a bit.

It's worth saying too that, because the analytic and symbolic systems are pretty different, it's entirely possible you might like one but not the other!

If you choose to use a system:

I mentioned in my original reply that the kind of introspection you need to do to form-find for yourself can be pretty hard-going. Introspection is difficult, and takes a lot of emotional energy, even if it can be worthwhile in the end!

So, I'd suggest to you is to not start with trying to find your own form. That's something which is a lot easier, and will feel a lot more comfortable, once you're more familiar with the system you're using! And it gives you a chance to really gauge how you feel about the system before you do start doing the intensive introspection stuff.

Instead, I highly recommend starting with writing interpretations!

I know that always sounds really daunting! It's not as strict and serious as it looks. '^^ Because it's all based on interpretation, there's not ever going to be a wrong answer! Interpretation just offers your own thoughts and perspective.

Of course, this isn't a rule! There's plenty of folks who only form-find for themselves, or start with that and get into interpretation later. If it'd be frustrating to hold off, you don't need to! But for practical purposes and to figure out what you think of the system, beginning with interpretation works better. ^u^

Alongside that, I'd say engaging with the community – even just to ask questions when you have them – is a really big part of the form-finding side of daemonism. You can absolutely meet your daemon and have a relationship with them without ever chatting to another daemian, but the form-finding systems are incredibly collaborative. You can't really get the full picture without being involved with the (handful) of others who are playing with them right now as well.

If/when you come to the introspection stuff, I'd definitely say not to do it alone, and those of us who've done it before can help out with it if you need it! But, like with any introspection, you can get support from anyone you trust for that. ^u^

I have some resources on TDF I've written for the analytic system (which is the more difficult one to learn). If you want to poke your head in on that then I'm very happy to help!! No pressure to stick with it either way though. c:

Symbolic is easier to learn, and I can give a good go-over of how it works, but there's less structure to it so I couldn't give you such a neat introduction as I could for analytic.

I'm not just disinterested in form finding for myself, I am actively opposed to it. My inherent fluidity is an essential part of who I am and I need complete freedom to be anything I want to be at any point in time. I'm a metaphorical shapeshifter, I constantly evolve as a person - I don't think I'll ever be settled, no matter how old I am. I just know that if I decided on a form I would end up feeling stifled and suppressed by it, no matter how much I liked the animal. Of course there are things about myself that are consistent, or slow to change - I'd be lost if I didn't have any foundation at all. But the idea of form finding over and over again sounds like a hell of a lot of work, and I don't want to become stuck with one form out of a lack of desire to go searching again. At least with labels I can drop ones or switch them as I wish, with less work involved. And even in that case, I tend to lean towards broad umbrella terms to avoid being stifled by that too. I suppose when it comes down to it, an inability to settle precludes the possibility of finding a form at all, and is antithetical to the practice itself. So I let Solaris transform according to his preferences, and don't worry about form finding at all.

I hope you don't mind me rambling a bit on the subject! This is more of a general infodump thing, not really directed at you specifically, but your post is a nice jumping-off point. c:

I think sometimes form-finding can be assumed to be a fundamental aspect of having a daemon or practicing daemonism, but it isn't. There's always (or, at least, for as long as we've been in the community) been dae/mians who don't form-find. Animal forms as a whole are 100% optional – an aspect of our culture, sure, but not a rule one has to follow.

The thing with form-finding is that it is always a deeply personal practice, and it is usually difficult. It requires a level of focused introspection that can be exhausting, overwhelming, or even self-destructive if approached in the wrong way.

Nobody should see form-finding as an obligation. Nobody should see having a fitting and/or settled daemon form as a requirement, mandatory end goal, or something you need to be a "real" daemian.

And even for those who do seek a settled form, you are not obligated to use any of TDF's systems, and a settled form is no less valid for not doing so.

Those of us who do engage with form-finding, do it because we find it fun! And that's how it should be. It's a hobby!

First and only rule of form-finding: if it sucks, hit the bricks!

For me, because I actively enjoy form-finding, the idea of my form changing (because I change as a person, or because my understanding of myself changes) doesn't sound daunting at all – it sounds exciting!

It's actually pretty common on the form-finding side of the community for people to get itchy feet with their forms purely because the search is fun. Sometimes committing to a form that does really, deeply, meaningfully fit you is actually the hard part!

Form-finding should never be stifling. It should never discourage someone from feeling like they can change, nor make them resist changes as they happen.

Because of the nature of form-finding in the real world, settling is never going to be literal, solid, and definite. There is no way for anyone to know if the form that fits them now will fit them in five years... there's no way to know it'll still fit a week from now! And that's fine!

There's different ways to approach the concept of settling, for sure. Some people don't use it at all. And some people treat it with more gravity than others.

For me? Settling means I know who I am today. It's a way of saying, this is deeply, meaningfully representative of the person I am right now. I consider a form settled not based on timescale, or predictions of the future, but simply on how well it fits me in the present moment.

That meaning doesn't evaporate if, later on down the line, I change and the form no longer fits. That form was still a step along my journey. It's one of the people I have been, even if it isn't who I am now.

There's no way to have a helpful system of introspection while disincentivising the natural, inevitable experience of change. We should embrace change where it happens. How else can we grow as people?

Daemon forms shouldn't make you feel like you're bound to the person you are right now. They're not the name of a finished novel – they're chapter titles in a work that's still being written!

If you don't like form-finding, then the idea of having to do this over and over again probably sounds tiring. In that case: you don't have to form-find!

It's a hobby! You do it for fun. I promise, no matter how it might look from the outside, some of us do just enjoy this. xD (Because we're weird nerds who love animals. We're the sort of people who read wikipedia for fun, and who follow animal science like it's the news).

It's a very particular thing. It's really not for everyone.

And not every daemian does it, because for some folks, it wouldn't be fun, helpful, or meaningful in a way that makes the effort worthwhile.

And I don't think any less of anyone for that, same as I don't think less of people who don't enjoy drawing or crochet or open world video games like I do. Because it's just a hobby! c:

I say all this because I worry sometimes people get the wrong impression of the whole... tone and vibe of the form-finding side of the community. And I totally understand where that impression comes from! It hasn't always been treated so lightheartedly, or even as freely optional as it is now. Things have changed a lot over the years!

The forum is oooold. It is a very old community and there are years worth of content. Some not reflective of the current community. You have to remember this place was made back in around 2004, and it is still kicking!

The typing system for animal traits is phenomenal and I cannot recommend it enough! It has been a huge project of dedication, love, and care.

The experiences and information shared between it's members over all the years, and now, is invaluable. There is no better singular place to learn. There are other great resources, but the forum is yeeeears of really useful resources and great conversations.

I do not participate in form finding, and have never been very good at interpreting. But, there is a few common templates people use for writing out the analysis. But the actual method behind it I *think* can be found on the forum in a section dedicated to it.

The accuracy of interpretations is never a guarantee, but even some older formats match up to the current interpretations!

I can't say for certain (was before my time), but I believe personality typings were more relevant in the early days of developing the analytic system -- they were used as inspiration, I think?

But over time, as the analytic system grew and could stand on its own feet, people kept using personality types as a way to, basically, categorise and offer a quick tl;dr of what the interpretation of a form was like. There was a spreadsheet which sorted written analyses based on personality type which was, for the longest time, the only way to independently filter analyses to find what animals might fit you.

In this era at least, the personality typing systems weren't treated with rigidity -- not like a science -- just as an imperfect but mostly functional filtering tool. And if you dig, you can find discussions on their actual veracity going back years and years.

However! I am not a fan of personality typing systems! And as I got more familiar with analytic, I started to feel like analytic stood better without association with all the, uh, pseudoscientific bunk of dubious and sordid origin. So I kinda started to bring forward the idea that maaaaybe we should ditch these things. TDF is slow to embrace change, but I think there were others on the same page as well. Aside from everything else, the inclusion and integration of personality typing in analytic just added another barrier-to-entry to what is already a pretty challenging, unintuitive system (one which I would very much like to not die off).

PTing is not commonly used anymore in new resources or in form-finding overall. Individuals may use them for their own introspection if they so desire, of course!

I also made an alternative to the personality type filtering system, a spreadsheet that filters by a few distinct traits instead, and that patched a big hole PTs were filling.

Plus folks started switching out their personality types sections in analyses for a summary of traits (which works way better in many ways).

Obligatory disclaimer: some folks do still use personality typing in their analyses and whatnot, and that's still allowed! It's not like cultural shifts are gonna be enforced as rules (that would be fucked).

Also relevant to note that even outside of that gradual shift, the community has moved decisively away from using the HP houses for anything. Fuck JKR. (We have a statistically significant amount of trans folks in the community, so trust me when I say we are not neutral on that matter).

Overall, I definitely understand the "ick" reaction! Like I said, I don't love personality typing either. '^^

And I would like to make it very clear: analytic is not a form of personality typing. It's... very much its own thing. It's genuinely unique! That's part of why I love it so much.

Unfortunately, the analytic side of the community isn't as populous as it once was, so new resources being posted is more of an occasion rather than a regular thing. And that plus the community's loooong history means that "modern" resources are vastly outnumbered by older ones. If you're browsing analytic resources, definitely check the date on them. It can give helpful context. (And try not to judge us for what we were doing 5-10 years ago ahah!)

I'll link some recent analyses for your perusal, so you can see what we're up to nowadays if you so desire. Only one of them is mine. :P

Orca analysis by Lukan of Vuu

Golden-crowned kinglet analysis by Seven

Brush-tailed bettong analysis by yours truly!

I also have a guide on TDF itself which is, yes, unfinished (it's gonna take a whiiiile) but it introduces the fundamental concepts, so it should clear up a bit of what we're actually doing here! Currently you need to have an active TDF account to see it. I'll probably create a version hosted off-site sometime so there's a way to read it without logging in... eventually...

Daemonism is a practice. The concept of it can be used by anyone: alterhuman or not, plural or not. It can be pure playfulness. It can be imaginary, and that's okay! That's a beautiful experience in its own respect!

There's no universal daemian experience because we accept and embrace that our minds, and our experiences, are ours alone.

The community isn't built on a shared experience – just a shared idea which we all create unique versions of.

Some people stick closer to the basic idea we started with. Some just take what they like from it and throw out the rest. Some only take vague inspiration from it. Some people adapt it more than others, sometimes due to being neurodivergent, plural, and/or alterhuman.

It's still daemonism because daemonism isn't defined by us all "doing the same thing" or "having the same experience".

Daemonism is, for the most part, defined by a person deciding that they want to call what they are doing or experiencing daemonism.

And a large part of that is often in connection to the community, whether directly or in a peripheral way, by taking inspiration from the practice, making use of the community's writings, and so on.

This is why I think daemonism is often misunderstood in an alterhuman context. Daemonism is not an experience, it's not an identity – it's just an idea we each take and make our own. And that's what it should be. That's the beauty of it!

Anyone could be a daemian if they want to. There's no requirements. A lot of people get started with daemonism purely because it sounds fun! A lot of people start with only their imagination, and many people remain so.

For others, it might become something else in time, or they might discover there was something underlying their imaginings all along. It's no more or less a practice of daemonism, either way.

A lot of alterhuman concepts don't apply to daemonism because of this. Fact is, there's plenty of daemians who are orthohumans too, and plenty of people who specifically see their daemonism as an orthohuman practice.

I see it get included under the alterhuman umbrella a lot, and I feel like it gives the wrong first impression to come at it from that angle by default.

Really, it's more comparable with being a furry. For some people, it is a deep, impactful, life-altering experience, and the people who feel that way are a vital part of the community. But equally, for some it is an exercise in whimsy, playfulness, or creativity – and those people are no less members of the community for it.

We're not united by being plural, or having thoughtforms, or being alterhuman. We're united by being a bunch of people who were inspired by some books (or a film or TV show) to play around with the idea of daemons, and ended up sticking with it for one reason or another.

Absolutely not! In fact that kind of reassurance is a huge part of why a lot of people develop them for the purposes of improving their mental health. It's kind of like ... an extended form of an affirmation, in my mind.

no, not his settled form or a comfort form or anything like that. he's a cat. a big fluffy orange maine coon. all the time. he doesn't take the shape of anything other than that.

his fursona is a hyena. he doesn't take the shape of a hyena. he doesn't behave like a hyena. MY fursona isn't a hyena (although I guess since we're the same guy maybe it also is lol).

my "main" is just my feathered wyvern form (which is teeechnically a personal form but the way i relate to it is its basically my fursona wheeee)

but i also have like. well. besides like a dozen concepts for silly guys i also have Cottonmouth Joe who is a giant cottonmouth and hes like a chaotic swamp man who loves nature but has no wisdom/ impulse control at all (and hes giant snake) (like not even anthro. his ass got NO limbs. hes just a big snake) (he wears clothes tho) and anyway we really gotta finish his ref cause hes iconic

wait wait i gotta dig up the sketch we did. one sec

guy who grabs every invasive python he comes across and keeps them as pets and loves them forever and gives them names like Candice and Mary Elizabeth (he has so many goddamn pythons)