Snape and Lily: finding their place in the wizarding world
If Lily cared for Severus why did she marry James?Â
If Severus cared for Lily why did he join Voldemort?
The parallels I examine here are the motivations behind the choices Snape and Lily make at the end of their time at school and just beyond.
Lily is hardly mentioned at all in the narrative. We mainly see her through other peopleâs perceptions of her, and circumstantial clues.
Often I see the two of them compared as like, Snape made a bad decision that was ultimately understandable due to a desire for self-preservation, based on his circumstances, VS Lily said fuck you to her best friend of ten years and fell instantly, deeply in love with someone she had openly hated almost as long for no other reason than just being callous and cruel, that her decision of who to marry had no thought behind it other than âJames was hot and richâ. I think this does her a huge disservice and that the motivations of the two best friends are much more similar than people give them credit for.
NB: Iâm approaching this with my interpretation of book canon, where I got the impression James is not a great person and we donât see any direct evidence of his having changed after leaving school besides people saying âHeâs changedâ. Certainly he has some red flags for abusive behaviour, for the purpose of this meta Iâm just addressing why she might have chosen to marry him and not trying to say how James was as a husband either way. He might have been a great guy, who knows. Ultimately Iâm asking why choose to forgive Snape for the choices he made at 18 and not Lily, when those choices have very similar driving forces.
Timing
We donât know exactly when Snape takes the Dark Mark but probably sometime soon after leaving school. However the foundation building towards this decision certainly happened while still at school.
Similarly Lily marries James probably the year after leaving school, having finally agreed to date him in seventh year. We actually donât know if they got married before having Harry. Certainly sometime within Harryâs first 8 months - 1 year of life at the very latest, since there are wedding pictures of a big party that would have happened before they went into hiding. But considering the conservative nature of the wizarding world, and the probable attitudes of both their parents, its more likely they got married either the year after school or early in her pregnancy (before showing) at the latest.Â
Foreknowledge
Would their experiences at school be indicative of life after leaving?
Was Lily misled about the worst parts of James? Yes, canonically. (Lupin and Sirius both admit this to Harry in OotP.) James was on his best behaviour during their seventh year, and they were still chaperoned at Hogwarts under the eyes of the teachers and all their friends, with separate dorm rooms.Â
Was Snape misled about the worst of Voldemort? Likely, at least to some degree. Sirius says his own family didnât really see the full picture until it was too late, including Regulus, which seems to imply there was some level of obfuscation. Certainly the DEs would have on some level tailored their approach to recruiting to what these vulnerable young people wanted to hear. And Snapeâs motivations would have been different to a blood supremacist like Regulus yet they both joined up around the same time.
Was it to their benefit not to dig too deeply into any doubts or fears they may have had about James/Voldemort? Absolutely, yes, in order to keep going with their choices.
Background
Both Lily and Snape came from a âless thanâ background compared to their peers in the wizarding world:
Class/Wealth
We know in detail about Snapeâs disadvantages. I think thereâs a misconception that because Lily did not come from the same level of abject poverty as Snape did, that she was in a much higher class than he was. But their worlds were close enough that they met on the same playground, and Petunia knew of Snapeâs family. The distinction Petunia makes between them isnât the exact same as the one James makes.
Blood Status
Lily was Muggleborn in an increasingly intensifying wizarding war where her blood status made her place very precarious.
Snape was a half blood with one Muggle parent which in this blood quantum system seems to place him only one step above Muggleborn.
Merit
I think sometimes itâs easy to conflate Lily with someone like Hermione since theyâre the characters both singled out for being Muggleborn as well as studious and high achieving. But Hermioneâs parents are well off (no issues shopping for supplies, buys Crookshanks, ski vacation, etc). Lily has a far more precarious situation. She seems to have both worked hard and had natural aptitude, was a prefect and Head Girl, member of the Slug Club. She was working very hard to make a place for herself in the wizarding world and yet I think both she and Snape were astute enough to recognize that the WW is not a meritocracy (I have read some great metas on this), especially by the end of their tenure at school. Snape went to Hogwarts thinking one thing and would have been disabused of this notion soon enough. He doesnât appear to have striven for public recognition the way Lily did, maybe believing he would need to rely on himself alone to get ahead, but I think this is a parallel where they both realize they need to do something beyond being smart and talented alone.
Familial Support
The wizarding world appears to be fairly conservative when it comes to families. Women always take their husbandâs last name, at least in the Hogwarts class that weâre privy to. They have children quite young. Outsize importance is placed on family name and dynasty. Neither Lily or Severus has familial support within the wizarding world. And no family is a very lonely place to be when youâre just becoming an adult.
It had to be very tempting to be offered an instant, rock solid place in the wizarding world. A pureblood name, a family, status. A place in the DE, even at a very low level, maybe a promise that merit would mean something there.
Could they both have made a different decision, yes, of course, they could have gone out into the unknown world without protection and rely on themselves alone, but that doesnât sound very appealing as an adult and certainly not to someone barely past childhood.
From the prevailing attitude at the time (widespread fear among even established adults and families) it seems like they might both view the chance of being a casualty of the war as pretty high for either of them without making the choice they did. Theyâre both looking for protection, belonging, certainty in an uncertain time. Both are trying to cement their place in the world, not slip through the cracks.Â
To me, I have sympathy for someone as disadvantaged as Snape joining the Death Eaters regardless of his later redemption. This eventuality was a result of a lot of factors mostly beyond his control. And I feel the same for Lily. She was doing the best she could with the information she had. We donât have any sense of her interiority in canon so we donât know her feelings or thoughts. We donât know what James said or did to convince her heâd changed. In canon we certainly see he had people willing to stretch the truth or lie for him. And once out of school we donât see any evidence of other friendships for Lily besides James and his friend group (this itself is a red flag to me but I digress).
The difference between Snape and Lilyâs stories is that heâs given a chance to live almost twice as long as she does. She dies at 21, he at 38. So we see what he does with the time given to him, how he redeems the misguided choices heâs made, starting right before the time she dies, motivated in great part by his relationship to her.
But Lily isnât given this chance. She dies before any story much beyond childhood even starts. So we donât get to see how her life would have played out. And I am not saying she would have had to make any different decisions later in life to deserve redemption. Iâm saying both she and Snape deserve that initial sympathy for making hard choices, maybe wrong choices, when they are still kids. And that the reasons behind their choices show how similar they are, and reinforce why they might have gotten along so well in some ways, and been unable to understand each other in others.
The end!!!! If you made it this far thank you for reading all that!! Hope it made any sort of sense at all. I wrote this for the Sneta Fest Day 3 prompt "Relationships/dynamics/parallels", and I hope I stayed close to the parameters.
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someone said "ryan wanting to do cute shit with naim like take photobooth pics" and i'm now realising that the interaction ryan had with the entity that naim witnessed was ryan just thinking his crush wanted to take him out to a cute date. someone will see us. are you sure? even though everybody knows about me? you want to go anyway? ok :) FUCKING KILL ME
seeing the bus scene in a new light after my rewatch because ohh my god ryan was actually just so ridiculously giddy about naim liking him back. they go and talk to this girl who tells them that the entity looks like who you're most into, and ryan's shifting awkwardly from foot to foot bc welp. guess the truth abt his crush is out there now. what can you do. but then he looks to his left and naim is just as awkward, eyes flicking to him and then away. and wait, hang on a minute. ryan's entity looking like naim is a given, but naim's entity looks like him too. when jessica yells at naim he puts a protective hand on his back because that's something he feels suddenly allowed to do now, knowing what it means that naim's entity looks like him. and when they're on the bus, naim still reeling from the near miss, ryan talks him down, holds his hand, refusing to let fear ruin this. bc he's had a crush on the new kid since he came to town, and he had to work up a shit ton of courage to lead him to the mill and take that first leap of faith. he hadn't lied, when he told naim it was his first time. what he had with hunter was nothing like this. and now he's there on the bus with naim, and even after all the insane shit that's happened and is still happening, he can't help but be stupidly excited by the fact that naim likes him back. yeah this evil demonic entity might never leave them alone, but ryan's just found out naim likes him to the point that it takes his form to tempt him and as fucked up as that is it's kind of validating too. naim likes him, and he kisses ryan back when he leans in, shifts in his seat to give him more room, and you know what? fuck it. ryan's gonna give him the best hand job of his life on this bus right fucking now
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People need to draw snape as younger. heâs like 30 in the books, THIRTY, like a freaking baby. they always make him look so old in art and heâs weathered and aged because he went through a war when he was late teens but heâs only THIRTY, A BABY!!
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âbecause Iâve changed everything about myself and the one thing that never changes is that I love youâ this is so Snape and Lily and if you think otherwise youâre wrong
Wolfstar has a lot of examples of Remus being a quiet, grumpy lone wolf boyfriend for a more delicate Sirius.
Remus keeps Sirius grounded with a stability he has never had before.
Snupin often features a soft, insistent puppy Remus for a more delicate Severus. Remus initiates and chases, seeking Severus out and drowning him in affection he's never had before.
I'm not into either of these common scenarios because they've changed Remus into something completely unrecognizable.
Remus is NOT going to be the one initiating a relationship!
Nor the one putting in the work to hold it together!!
He is a bitch ass coward who'd rather hurt someone intentionally than wait to 'accidentally hurt them with his awfulness'.
He truly believes others are better off away from him. He gets carried away feeling good for a bit - then pisses the bed in the morning and has a guilt-ridden breakdown.
He isn't stable, he isn't resilient, he isn't emotionally strong, he isn't giving more than he is taking - HE is the delicate one!!!
Tonks offers Remus BOTH stability he has never had before AND drowns him in affection. She chases, seeks him out, initiates and is a strong woman who can ground him.
Remus needs those things from her - and even then he still struggles.
He can't provide them to others...! We have clear example of how he acts in the context of a romantic+sexual relationship - and yetâŚ
Could we have a bit more Remus Lupin acting like Remus Lupin?
That would mean him being an avoidant bitch ass coward.
Self-sabotaging, irritating, wont do the emotional labour - whoever is stupid enough to be into him has to put in the effort, like Tonks did.
Sirius and Severus are VERY persistent, strong, stubborn men. They don't need to be more delicate for a Big Remus to come coddle them.
((This isn't to put a dampener on anyone's fun, or any cool AUs that change up characters - make what makes you happy. Always. I like 'cute picture of remus tail-wagging hugging Severus' as much as the next person, even if its OOC - Its cute.
I'm just shocked at how prevalent it is.))
Who were students at Hogwarts alongside the Marauders?
This is a question I used to see quite a lot, and it's an interesting problem to try to tackle, because the answer is that lots of people could have overlapped, some probably did, and some we know definitely did. Equally, there were lots of people that probably didnât, but are treated as given characters in Marauders fics. Which is fine, of course, but this post will focus exclusively on canon*, and not fanon.
*I will include extended canon in terms of Pottermore and WOM (Wizard of the Month), but I won't include Hogwarts Mystery, or any other video games. I will also not be including the movies (ie no Emma Vanity nor the Talkalots and Laughalots). I hate the movies, so sorry, not sorry.
Currently, this is just a brain dump, and might be missing candidates and arguments. But this is what Iâve got so far.
The core crew and their birthdays
Thereâs really no need to go into who the Marauders, Lily and Severus were, but listing them here for reference:
Sirius Blackâ3 Nov 1959
Severus Snapeâ9 Jan 1960
Lily Evansâ30 Jan 1960
Remus Lupinâ10 Mar 1960
James Potterâ27 Mar 1960
Peter PettigrewâUnknown except year: 1959/1960
Students we know were at Hogwarts between 1971-1978
Either in the Maraudersâ year, or might very well have been in the Maraudersâ year:
Stebbins (b. 1 Sep 1959-31 Aug 1960)
Present in the same O.W.L. exam scene as the marauders, Lily and Snape.
âQuills down, please!â squeaked Professor Flitwick. âThat means you too, Stebbins! Please remain seated while I collect your parchment! Accio!âÂ
Likely a relation of Stebbins who attended the Yuleball in 1994:
âTen points from Ravenclaw, Fawcett!â Snape snarled as a girl ran past him. âAnd ten points from Hufflepuff too, Stebbins!â as a boy went rushing after her.
Tilden Toots (b. 1959)
Tilden Toots was a wizard with âthree green thumbsâ who hosted a Wizarding Wireless radio show on Herbology. He was married to the author Daisy Hookum
Here is a transcript of the âwirelessâ radio program [Rowling's original website JKR.com: Toots, Shoots and Roots]:
Hello and welcome back to âToots, Shoots ânâ Rootsâ with me, Tilden Toots.
Mrs. Georgina Smyth of Nettlebed in Oxfordshire has sent an owl with an all too common problem.
Dear Tilden,
Iâve not watered my Flitterbloom for several months and now when I need to use it in a potion I find itâs died. Iâve threatened it with a number of curses but it refuses to revive. What would you recommend?
Well Georgina, a combination of my famous Rejuicing and Regerminating potions ought to do the trick. Six drops of the red Rejuicer followed by three drops of the green Regerminator will be the breath of life to a plant beyond the reach of blackmail.
Unfortunately, thatâs all we have time for today. But, be sure to tune in next time when weâll be discussing the right way to skin a Gurdyroot and what to do if muggles hear your Honking Daffodils. Until next time, thatâs Tootle-oo from Toots!
Gaspard Shingleton (b. 1959)
Gaspard Shingleton was the celebrated inventor of the Self-Stirring Cauldron.
Greta Catchlove (b. 1960)
Was a witch who wrote the original edition of Charm Your Own Cheese
Students we know werenât in the Marauders year, but were at school with them
Regulus Black (b. 1961)
Siriusâs younger brother. Attended Hogwarts from 1972/73â1979/80. Was sorted into Slytherin. Turned Death Eater before he had a change of heart.
Sirius jabbed a finger at the very bottom of the tree, at the name REGULUS BLACK. A date of death (some fifteen years previously) followed the date of birth.Â
(...)
âYeah,â said Sirius. âStupid idiot ... he joined the Death Eaters.âÂ
(...)
âand when he was sixteen years old, Master Regulus joined the Dark Lord. So proud, so proud, so happy to serve ..."
The change of heart was born from not being prepared for the realities of being a Death Eater, and the fact that Voldemort was prepared to kill Kreacher
Hayleyhaha: Why did Regulus have a change of heart?Â
J. K. Rowling: He was not prepared for the reality of life as a Death Eater. It was Voldemort's attempted murder of Kreacher that really turned him..
Bertha Jorkins (likely b. ca 1955-57)
Bertha Jorkins is described to be a few years above James and Sirius. Sirius doesnât use the term âa couple of yearsâ, so I think itâs safe to assume sheâs about 3-4 years older than them.Â
âListen, I knew Bertha Jorkins,â said Sirius grimly. âShe was at Hogwarts when I was, a few years above your dad and me. And she was an idiot. Very nosy, but no brains, none at all. Itâs not a good combination, Harry. Iâd say sheâd be very easy to lure into a trap.
(âŚ)
Instantly, a figure rose out of it, a plump, scowling girl of about sixteen, who began to revolve slowly, with her feet still in the basin. She took no notice whatsoever of Harry or Professor Dumbledore. When she spoke, her voice echoed as Snapeâs had done, as though it were coming from the depths of the stone basin. âHe put a hex on me, Professor Dumbledore, and I was only teasing him, sir. I only said Iâd seen him kissing Florence behind the greenhouses last Thursday. ...â
âBut why, Bertha,â said Dumbledore sadly, looking up at the now silently revolving girl, âwhy did you have to follow him in the first place?âÂ
Sturgis Podmore (between Sep 1956 and Sep 1957)
Sturgis is the only Order of the Phoenix member we know went to school with the Marauders, Lily and Snape, and I will fight for his inclusion in more fics. Heâs likely to be in the class of 1968â1975 (unless heâs born on September 2nd or something).Â
It was headlined: Sturgis Podmore, 38, of number two, Laburnum Gardens, Clapham, has appeared in front of the Wizengamot charged with trespass and attempted robbery at the Ministry of Magic on 31st August.
Lucius Malfoy (Between Sep 1953 and Sep 1954)
Father of Draco Malfoy and Death Eater in both the first and second war. Heâs 41 in September 1995:
ââI feel much easier in my mind now that I know that Dumbledore is being subjected to fair and objective evaluation,â said Mr. Lucius Malfoy, 41, speaking from his Wiltshire mansion last night.
And we catch a glimpse of him when Snape and Lily start Hogwarts:
And Severus Snape moved off to the other side of the Hall, away from Lily, to where the Slytherins were cheering him, to where Lucius Malfoy, a prefect badge gleaming upon his chest, patted Snape on the back as he sat down beside him
Narcissa Black (1955)
Mother of Draco Malfoy; youngest sister of Bellatrix and Andromeda. We have her year of birth from the Black family tree, as drawn up by JKR. While often portrayed as a prefect in fanfiction, we do not know anything about her years at Hogwarts, other than her being a Slytherin:Â
âMy whole family have been in Slytherin,â [Sirius] said.
Mulciber (likely around 1957-1962)
Mulciber is one of the many future Death Eaters Snape hangs around, and one of two Lily focuses on in their fifth year:
âWe are, Sev, but I donât like some of the people youâre hanging round with! Iâm sorry, but I detest Avery and Mulciber! Mulciber, What do you see in him, Sev, heâs creepy! Dâyou know what he tried to do to Mary Macdonald the other day?â
Mulciber might be known for the use of the imperious curse, and for the murder of the McKinnons.
âYes!â said Karkaroff. âThere was Travers â he helped murder the McKinnons! Mulciber â he specialized in the Imperius Curse, forced countless people to do horrific things!
We donât know if itâs him or his older relation who was at the Hogshead waiting for Voldemort to return from his meeting with Dumbledore.
âThen if I were to go to the Hogâs Head tonight, I would not find a group of them â Nott, Rosier, Mulciber, Dolohov â awaiting your return? Devoted friends indeed, to travel this far with you on a snowy night, merely to wish you luck as you attempted to secure a teaching post.â
Though we don't know how old he is, he is unlikely to be in his earliest years when he attacks Mary Macdonald. Most likely, heâs around Severusâ age. However, it is interesting that Lily and Severus are arguing about Mulciber and Avery in their fifth year, in a way that makes it sound like it's not something that's come up a lot before. It is possible that Mulciber and Avery are a year older or younger than him, and it's someone he's recently started hanging out with. Or, in fact, that they're in the same year but still only recently started to hang out with them.Â
The earliest he can be born, given heâs at school in 1975-76 is 1957.
Avery (likely around 1957-1962)
Iâm going to put Avery around the same age bracket as Mulciber, for the same reason.Â
Barty Crouch (likely b. ca 1963-1965)
Barty Crouch Jr was brought to Azkaban at the age of about 18-19 (no more than nineteen)
âThatâs right,â said Sirius, and he didnât look remotely amused now. âI saw the dementors bringing him in, watched them through the bars in my cell door. He canât have been more than nineteen. They took him into a cell near mine.â
As elaborated on in this meta, the arrest and trial took place some time between 1982-1984, meaning Barty Crouch Jr was likely born between 1963 and 1965.
Florence (likely b. ca 1955-1957)
Assuming Bertha is three to four years older than the Marauders, Snape and Lily, and sheâs sixteen in that memory, we can assume Florence was caught kissing someone between 1971-1973. She might have been the Maraudersâ age but it seems very unlikely given the kissing (and especially considering the boy was able to hex Bertha, whoâthough stupidâis 16 at this point.) Itâs far more probable she was a few years above the boys, just like Bertha. Itâs also noticeable Bertha uses Florenceâs first name, suggesting they know each other, which again supports theyâre about the same age.
âHe put a hex on me, Professor Dumbledore, and I was only teasing him, sir. I only said Iâd seen him kissing Florence behind the greenhouses last Thursday. ...â
Gilderoy Lockhart (26 January 1964)
We know quite a bit about this most charming (or not) DADA teacher from Pottermore (including this archived web version).Â
Born to a witch mother and a Muggle father, with two older sisters, Gilderoy Lockhart was the only one of his parentsâ three children to show magical ability.Â
Thereâs a lot of background on Gilderoy and his time at school, which I suggest you read on the website, including these highlights:
He lobbied the Headmaster to start a school newsletter, because he liked nothing better than to see his name and photograph in print.
Never very popular, he nevertheless achieved his primary goal of school-wide recognition through repeated, attention-getting exploits. He received a weekâs worth of detentions for magically carving his signature in twenty-foot-long letters into the Quidditch pitch. He managed to create a massive, illuminated projection of his own face, which he would send skywards in imitation of the Dark Mark. He sent himself eight hundred Valentineâs cards one year, which caused such a pile-up of owls in the Great Hall that breakfast had to be abandoned (far too many feathers and droppings in the porridge).
Dirk Cresswell (between Sep 1960- Aug1961)
Dirk was a muggleborn student in the year below Lily who became head of the Goblin Liaison Office.
Slughorn looked down at him in surprise. âYou mustnât think Iâm prejudiced!â he said. âNo, no, no! Havenât I just said your mother was one of my all-time favorite students? And there was Dirk Cresswell in the year after her too â now Head of the Goblin Liaison Office, of course â another Muggle-born, a very gifted student, and still gives me excellent inside information on the goings-on at Gringotts!â
Daisy Hookum (1962)
Daisy Hookum wrote bestseller My Life as a Muggle after giving up magic for a year. She was married to celebrity gardener Tilden Toots.
Tarquin McTavish (1955)
Tarquin McTavish was a wizard who imprisoned his Muggle neighbour inside a tea kettle. He was sent to prison for this act.
If you want an older Slytherin antagonist, heâs definitely one to consider.
Lorcan d'Eath (1964)
Lorcan dâEath is a very popular part-vampire singer whose song âNecks to Youâ spent nineteen weeks in the Number 1 slot.
Glenda Chittock (1964)
Glenda Chittock is a popular presenter of the W.W.N. (Wizarding Wireless Network) program Witching Hour.
Students we donât know (even the approximate) the age of, but we know were at school with them
Davey Gudgeon
Davey Gudgeon was a student at Hogwarts at some point from or after 1971, who overlapped with the Marauders, Lily and Severus.Â
âThey planted the Whomping Willow the same year that I arrived at Hogwarts. People used to play a game, trying to get near enough to touch the trunk. In the end, a boy called Davey Gudgeon nearly lost an eye, and we were forbidden to go near it. No broomstick would have a chance.Â
Mary MacDonald
Mary MacDonald was a Gryffindor student at Hogwarts in 1975-1976, but she could have been anything from a first year to a seventh year. Because she was targeted by a future Death Eater, itâs assumed sheâs muggleborn (itâs also a fairly common last-name that donât otherwise appear in canon), but this is never confirmed.
âWe are, Sev, but I donât like some of the people youâre hanging round with! Iâm sorry, but I detest Avery and Mulciber! Mulciber, What do you see in him, Sev, heâs creepy! Dâyou know what he tried to do to Mary Macdonald the other day?â
Bertram Aubrey
Bertram Aubery overlapped with the Marauders, Lily and Snape at school, and James Potter and Sirius Black landed in detention for having used an illegal hex upon him. While I think itâs safe to assume James and Sirius might not have been in their earliest years of their magical education, weâve got no further information about how old Aubrey was, or how old the boys were. Or anything else, really.Â
He pulled out a card from one of the topmost boxes with a flourish and read, â âJames Potter and Sirius Black. Apprehended using an illegal hex upon Bertram Aubrey. Aubreyâs head twice normal size. Double detention.â â Snape sneered.
Wilkes & Rosier Jr
Wilkes and Rosier Jr* are part of the group weâre told hung out with Severus at school, meaning itâs very likely** they went to school with the Marauders.Â
âRosier and Wilkes â they were both killed by Aurors the year before Voldemort fell. The Lestranges â theyâre a married couple â theyâre in Azkaban. Avery â from what Iâve heard he wormed his way out of trouble by saying heâd been acting under the Imperius Curse â heâs still at large. But as far as I know, Snape was never even accused of being a Death Eater â not that that means much. Plenty of them were never caught. And Snapeâs certainly clever and cunning enough to keep himself out of trouble.
*Rosier Jr should not be confused with Evan Rosier, who was killed after July 1981 (likely after Voldemortâs fall as part of the round up of capturing the Death Eaters), who we learn about in The Pensieve chapter in GOF.
**Iâve got to caveat that itâs possible they didnât go to school together, because Sirius also highlights Bellatrix and Rodolphus Lestrange. Bellatrix, at least, had graduated by the time Snape started school. However, without any other information, itâs fairly safe to assume Snape went to school with Avery and Wilkes.
Students that might have been at Hogwarts between 1971-1978
There needs to be some canon evidence for them to be considered here. Otherwise weâd end up with a very long list indeed.
Andromeda Black (b. between 1952-1954)
As the middle child, sheâs born between Bellatrix (1951) and Narcissa (1955), and might have overlapped with the Marauders, but only if she was born late enough (September 1953 or later). Her daughter was born between 1 September 1972 and 31 August 1973, which is worth factoring in when considering how old Andromeda is for any given fic.
Rabastan Lestrange & Rodolphus Lestrange
We donât actually know (I donât think) when Rabastan and Rodolphus Lestrange were born. Itâs noticeable that Sirius didnât bring up Rabastan when listing the DEs Snape hung out with. Maybe Rabastan never attended Hogwarts? Maybe heâs even older than Rodolphus? Maybe Rodolphus is younger than Bellatrix and overlapped with the Marauders at school? Maybe Sirius confused Rabastan and Rodolphus when talking to the trio? Or any other guess, really.Â
Kingsley Shacklebolt
Kingsley Shacklebolt may have overlapped with the Marauders. He was not part of the first order, but he recognised a lot of James in Harry, suggesting he knew James. Considering James had very little time between school and Order and going into hiding with Harry and Lily, many take this to believe he went to school with the boys.
âYeah, I see what you mean, Remus,â said a bald black wizard standing farthest back; he had a deep, slow voice and wore a single gold hoop in his ear. âHe looks exactly like James.â
Quirinus QuirrellÂ
While it is possible to take Quirrell statement as an argument that he wasnât at school with James and Snape (âHe was at Hogwarts with your fatherâ, not âweâ), thereâs no reason for Quirrell to put himself into that dialogue. The point is that Snape and James were at Hogwarts together, and hated one another. How did Quirrell know this? Possibly Hogwarts gossip. But possibly he observed it for himself.
âOh, he does,â said Quirrell casually, âheavens, yes. He was at Hogwarts with your father, didnât you know? They loathed each other. But he never wanted you dead.â
Furthermore, we know he used to work at Hogwarts, then he took a year off to gain practical experience (suggesting he went straight from being a student to becoming a professor), before coming back as a DADA teacher.Â
At this stage it turns into speculation, but it seems unlikely he would have worked less than three years at Hogwarts before taking a year off, and it feels equally unlikely he would have waited more than ten years. If he worked for six years or more before taking a year off, he would have overlapped with the marauders. (If we worked for six years before taking the sabbatical, he would have graduated in 1984, meaning he would have started in 1977, and would have overlapped by a year with the Marauders)
Fabian and Gideon Prewett
Molly Weasley is born in October 1949. If her brothers were younger than her, they could have overlapped with the Marauders, Snape and Lily.Â
For either or both of them to overlap with the Marauders, they would have to graduate from Hogwarts at the earliest in 1972, which would put either or both of their birthdays between Sep 1953 - Aug 1954, or later.Â
In other words, if either of her brothers, or both, were roughly four years younger, or more, they would have overlapped with the Marauders, Snape and Lily.
Note: Nowhere in canon is it suggested that Fabian and Gideon are twins. They might have been. But it's just a theory.
Alice and Frank Longbottom
Frank and Alice have a son Harryâs age, but unlike Lily and James, they worked as Aurors and were well respected:
âThey were Aurors, you know, and very well respected within the Wizarding community,â Mrs. Longbottom went on. âHighly gifted, the pair of them. I â yes, Alice dear, what is it?â
Now, itâs possible that some of this respect came about after Voldemortâs fall, as per my meta that explains why they were likely attacked between 1982-early 1984, but likely they were active as Aurors for some years before they decided to have a baby. For the sake of the argument, letâs put two years as qualified Aurors as the minimum number of years before Alice gets pregnant, late 1979. That puts her and Frank at graduating Auror training in 1977 at the latest (and of course itâs possible either or both did it much earlier than this). Assuming the standard three years of Auror training, that means the latest they could have graduated Hogwarts is 1974.Â
âWell, youâll need to demonstrate the ability to react well to pressure and so forth,â said Professor McGonagall, âperseverance and dedication, because Auror training takes a further three years, not to mention very high skills in practical defense. It will mean a lot more study even after youâve left school, so unless youâre prepared to â âÂ
Which puts them in the window of possibly overlapping with the Marauders.
It's also worth noting that it is possible that the Auror training was cut either entirely or at least partially because of the war, which could put them closer in age with the Marauders. But then again, it's also absolutely possible (if not probable) that they were a fair deal older than the boys and Lily.
Gwenog Jones
I am going to ignore the Hogwarts Mystery stuff, but we know she was a favourite of Slughorn, and we know she is still active as the Captain of the Holyhead Harpies in 1996, suggesting she overlapped with Slughorn's final few years, which possibly puts her in the window together with the Marauders.
âAll ex-students, all signed. Youâll notice Barnabas Cuffe, editor of the Daily Prophet, heâs always interested to hear my take on the dayâs news. And Ambrosius Flume, of Honeydukes â a hamper every birthday, and all because I was able to give him an introduction to Ciceron Harkiss, who gave him his first job! And at the back â youâll see her if you just crane your neck â thatâs Gwenog Jones, who of course captains the Holyhead Harpies. ⌠People are always astonished to hear Iâm on first-name terms with the Harpies, and free tickets whenever I want them!â
I'll add Pandora and Xenophilius Lovegood to this list
In general, while it's unlikely that most people in Harry's year had as young parents as Harry, I guess we should expect quite a few of Harry's peers' parents in their final OWL year or NEWTs when the Marauders started at school. So the original 40 etc. are good sources for names.
Luna, being a year below, is one more student where we happen to know her parents names. We don't know how old they are, but it's perfectly plausible for her mother and father to have been overlapping, likely only in parts, with the Marauders.
Weaponising boredom: a parallel between Sirius and Phineas Nigellus
There is a particular bored register both Sirius and Phineas Nigellus reach for when they want to signal that a situation is beneath them. In both men it is a performance, reached for precisely when they are most engaged. Watching them deploy it side by side reveals how much of Sirius's affect is inherited, and how differently the two men wield the same tool.
1.0 Phineas: boredom as aristocratic contempt
Phineas uses yawns to display aristocratic disdain. But in every instance, there is a tell that he is keenly engaged. The boredom is a mask worn over contempt, and it never substitutes for genuine interest.
"Visit my other portrait?" said Phineas in a reedy voice, giving a long, fake yawn (his eyes travelling around the room and focusing upon Harry). "Oh no, Dumbledore, I am too tired tonight..." OoTP
And:
"Phineas Nigellus gave a long yawn, stretching his arms as he watched Harry with shrewd, narrow eyes." OoTP
In both cases, the yawn is juxtaposed against sharp, focused eyes. The languid body performs indifference while the watchful gaze betrays it. The yawn is theatre, undercut by the attention behind it.
That mismatch sharpens when Phineas reads Harry with uncomfortable accuracy. It is the precision of someone who has clearly been watching closely ( an acuity he shares with Sirius).
"You know," said Phineas Nigellus, even more loudly than Harry, "this is precisely why I loathed being a teacher! Young people are so infernally convinced that they are absolutely right about everything." OoTP
He lands the read, then retreats into examining his silk gloves while Harry begs him for information. That retreat is the weapon. It recasts the boy's suffering as a social imposition rather than a real emergency. For Phineas, ennui is a wall he raises between himself and anything that might obligate him.
2.0 Sirius: boredom as armour
Sirius reaches for the same register, but with him, it develops over time.
As a teenager in Snape's Worst Memory, he stares around at the students milling over the grass, looking rather haughty and bored and here, the boredom is an inherited default. It is the Black-family posture he wears without thinking, the studied disaffection of a boy raised to hold himself above the room. The narrative even frames it as attractive, "very handsomely so," which is how the pose is meant to land, and on the surface, it is indistinguishable from Phineas's yawns (perhaps the only difference is how deliberate it seems).Â
But by Azkaban, this has changed. The same posture has become something he actively wields, and he wields it under real duress. Fudge's account of his prison visit shows this clearly.
"You'd have thought he was merely bored â asked if I'd finished with my newspaper, cool as you please, said he missed doing the crossword. Yes, I was astounded at how little effect the dementors seemed to be having on him..." PoA
And the performance is effective. The boredom does more than unnerve Fudge; it frightens him. A prisoner sitting rationally in his cell, asking after the crossword, untouched by the dementors that reduce every other inmate to a muttering wreck, reads to Fudge as far more dangerous than a broken man. The composure itself is what alarms him, because it looks like proof that Azkaban has failed to touch Sirius at all, and this is precisely the effect the mask is engineered to produce.
But Sirius is deeply affected by Azkaban; while the performance holds up in front of Fudge, the damage shows elsewhere. As even in ordinary, unguarded moments, the harm sits visibly in his face (particularly his eyes) with Harry frequently describing the:Â
â the deadened look in Siriusâs eyes,â GoF
And observing in GoF that:Â
âSirius looked at him, eyes full of concern, eyes that had not yet lost the look that Azkaban had given them â that deadened, haunted look.â GoF
Therefore, beneath the composure is a man permanently marked by the horrors of Azkaban and when in PoA he is cornered by the lake and facing the kiss, the performance collapses entirely.Â
"Sirius had turned back into a man. He was crouched on all fours, his hands over his head. 'Noo,' he moaned. 'Noooo ... please. ...'" PoA
The man who "missed doing the crossword" is the same man reduced to begging on the lakeshore. The boredom in Azkaban was the last piece of dignity he had left, performed hard enough to convince the Minister for Magic that Azkaban had not won.
3.0 ConclusionÂ
While the surface behaviour of the two men is identical: the drawl, the haughtiness, the refusal to seem affected, the intent behind it differs. Phineas performs boredom because he genuinely holds himself above the situation, and the mask conceals the engagement he will not dignify. Sirius performs it defiantly as the mask conceals the pain he cannot afford to show. And both men clearly learned the same trick in the same house.
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