Dragons in the Attic

Feeling a bit frustrated at the lack of Red tegu specific information about care. It’s so hard to even find a picture of an adult that isn’t obese or has healthy looking skin and scales.

Obviously there is something in husbandry that’s missing for the reds specifically. Most black and whites, even the ones kept poorly look healthier than most of the reds I am seeing. I don’t want a future of incorrect diet or parameters for my boy.

I’ll read that refs need more humidity, how much more, no one knows, then I’ll read they need LESS humidity.

They need MORE fish in their diets—oh no, actually LESS fish.

More fruit—actually no! Only a LITTLE fruit!

Whole prey as a staple—NO only as a snack!

Dog food—NO DOG FOOD!

The same goes for taming them, there’s so much mixed information. I’m not confident I’ll do it right and end up with a nice adult tegu.

Seriously though there must be some way to keep male red tegus from looking like balloon animals with dry ashy skin??

I just want the best life for my little guy, he deserves the effort 😓

First thing first, the reason the adults look so dusty is because a lot of them don't have the right burrow access. Tegus need to be able to burrow in substrate that holds humidity, and a lot of them don't get it. The b/ws don't get so dry-looking because of the dark pigment, it hides a multitude of sins.

Second thing second, taming them does work just like the b/ws. There's no one right way to do it- and the Reptifiles taming page is a great place to start! Go slow, be gentle, and god, if you have a male, target train him early. I know we have mixed feelings about Clint these days, but his tegu target training video explains exactly why you gotta target train the big boys. Those jaw muscles are not a joke. (You should target train the girls too, tegus are smart and respond well to training. Good mental stimulation!)

But onto the knowledge-production problem that is Salvator rufescens. This is going to be long and rambly and frustrated.

The red tegu is a conundrum of an animal in captivity. We have way less info on them because when people were figuring out how to keep these things alive, they were doing it to commercially raise b/ws, and so they paid attention to what the b/ws were doing. (A lot of our basic husbandry data comes out of the initial American importers, who got them from farms in South America where they're raised and hunted for the leather trade.)

AND IT IS SO FRUSTRATING

Reds don't have nearly the commercial use, nor nearly the scientific interest, and so overall we know less about them. We have so much good info out there about wild diets and nutrition and behavioral ecology... for the b/ws. For the reds? There is ONE behavioral ecology paper about them. ONE. They also aren't doing the invasive thing the way the b/ws are, so there's less interest in studying them. I know Rachel Pikstein's lab is working up rufescens genetics for a study, but that's not super helpful for care!

There are a lot of people doing interesting things with tegus and talking about it online... but they're almost always doing it with black and whites, or hybrids. Even on Tegu Talk, the big old tegu forum that, like all forums, is mostly dead these days, you'll see that b/ws are the hot topic, not reds.

And while a red tegu will certainly survive and be healthy within b/w parameters- they live in the same regions and even hybridize in the wild- it's obvious that there are some differences. But what those differences are, and how they work with keeping the animal in better conditions... honestly it's a bit of a crapshoot.

Laura Roberts is one of the best people to ask about reds, but unfortunately her website is gone, and I'm not sure how much she's around anymore; she comments in the FB groups, but she's a Floridian, and it's illegal to keep them there anymore, so I don't think she's still breeding. Her tegu fb page hasn't updated since 2021, but you can use the Wayback Machine to access Your Tegu.

I'm trying to think of who else works with reds and puts husbandry stuff out there, but most of them are just... gone now. Rose City Reptiles is a breeder who sometimes does husbandry videos, but they've got outside enclosures/access, so not necessarily the typical pet home.

What I like to do whenever I'm trying to figure out my parameters for cage environment is I go look at the weather in different spots in the native range and see what it's doing.

But that doesn't help you at all with diet. We "know" they're a little more herbivorous in the wild, but that comes from one study from 1998 (Colli et al.) and it only looked at stomach contents, which are really not the best way to do a dietary study- stomach contents only tell you what's in the stomach at time of death, and if you're a scavenger, what you eat changes on a day to day basis. Also, n=5. They had 5 red tegus in their study. That's... not a lot.

Anyways of the modern diet stuff- the fruit consumption papers, the isotopic analyses and stomach content analyses to look at what they're eating when they're invasive, it's all black and whites.

So what do you do in this situation? Me, I find the healthiest-looking animals I can and find out what their keepers are doing. I usually stick to facebook for this because for most of the people who know what they're doing with tegus... they're not on other social media. Except maybe old forums. The fb group Tegu Keepers has a lot of wisdom, as does Tegus From Around The World. I look at what works for individual keepers, and I'm always interested in the value of past experiences. Even if the past practices are not what I'd do, and they often aren't, understanding the thought process is important. I also look up as much as I can- climate data, and what biology articles exist. I gather up all the information that I can, and I never use just one source, and I never listen to just one person.

I'm sorry I couldn't give you more of a concrete answer- maybe that'll change one day, I know a couple of people working on an actual book about tegus like we have books for monitors (not like those pet guides, more like a book about the natural history of Tupinambis and Salvator in general). But for now, we wait. Some papers that might be worth reading:

A New Species of Tupinambis (Squamata: Teiidae) from Central Brazil, with an Analysis of Morphological and Genetic Variation in the Genus. Guarino R. Colli, Ayrton K. Péres, Jr., Hélio J. da Cunha Herpetologica, Vol. 54, No. 4 (Dec., 1998), pp. 477-492 (16 pages)

This one's on JStor, but fair warning it's a mess. It was written before Tupinambis and Salvator were split, and like I said, there's issues with the study methods for making any dietary assumptions about the reds.

Activity and Ranging Behavior of the Red Tegu Lizard Tupinambis rufescens in the Bolivian Chaco. Rossy R. Montaño, Rosa Leny Cuéllar, Lee A. Fitzgerald , Florencio Mendoza, Filemó Soria, Christine V. Fiorello, Sharon L. Deem, and Andrew J. Noss South American Journal of Herpetology, 8(2):81-88.

From what I’ve read this morning I’ve gathered that red tegu seems to have a more dramatic brumation cycle than black and whites. This suggests to me that they can survive colder winters in their burrows. I’m wondering if this is why they pack on the pounds so easily—if they need to brumate for a longer period of time, they’d need more fat storage and a more efficient metabolism.

I’m about to completely geek out on what I’ve discovered today. Sorry for the super long post….



I also ran across this https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/318759-Salvator-rufescens/browse_photos

Red Tegus in the wild! There is so much diversity that I am shocked they haven’t been divided into specific locals yet like black and whites have. The color and even body shape varies and seems to depend on the location. A couple of these look to have some black and white genes from hybridization.

These are some of the only photos of red tegus in a green, lush looking landscape. Both of these look a whole lot like the hybrids I see people create in captivity.

A ‘tribid’ from Rose city reptiles. Notice the more brown and yellow look that happens when black and white mixes with Red. I think this is part of why there is confusion about the two species having different care needs. There is some habitat overlap, and the fact they can hybridize suggests they have the same needs. But the local of the tegu must matter at least some.

There’s a wide range of habitat, but overall it looks dry and hot. Not a lot of vegetation, I don’t see any fruit trees. I don’t see where red tegus would be finding fish as a staple or shrimp.

Most tegu people say to feed Seafood, fruit and meats, invertebrates when young. (I feel like we need a tegu food pyramid or something.)

Looking at these photos, these environments look like they are rich in invertebrates, birds, reptiles, rodents and other small mammals, cacti and grasses, maybe flowers. So it’s safe to say that Red Tegus probably eat mostly these things. Probably with a strong preference and prioritization of protein. They probably eat plenty of eggs and birds, snakes and lizards, other things that are out during the daytime since their most active period is midday according to the study.

Giant hunks of salmon, shrimp, tilapia, and other seafood is probably WAY too high in fat and should probably only be fed to underweight tegus or tegus preparing for brumation. Gravid females can probably benefit from the extra calories I imagine. (I’m sure it’s perfectly fine as a treat but I see some people feeding it very often and suggesting that it’s a staple. For black and whites this might not cause obesity but for Reds it might, if it’s true they have a different metabolism to deal with longer brumation.)

Fruit should not be a staple, it’s high calorie and high sugar and needs to be carefully balanced, only given occasionally in my opinion.

Gut loaded insects, whole prey like chicks and mice should probably be the majority of their diet, along with whatever greens they’ll eat, maybe cactus.

They need hot and dryer habitats with access to cool, humid dens and burrows, access to plant shade and undergrowth.

This is all very opposite to the impression I had before about their needs, which was definitely more humid and damp like the black and whites. I’m glad I’m finding more about this while my tegu is still tiny. I’ll definitely be researching more and more and trying different things for his care. Hopefully in 6-10 months I’ll have a big healthy male tegu that can represent what they should look and act like in captivity.

I’m gonna make another post just to feel out over the different color variations and body shapes. Also look! He’s eating a bird!!!

IN A DISTANT and second-hand set of dimensions, in an astral plane that was never meant to fly, the curling star-mists waver and part . . .

See . . .

"Something about his lack of urgency speaks to you on a fundamental level."

ChatGPT is running out of money because they haven't actually figured out how to make money with the plagiarism engine they created.

Sometimes I wish you people would find yourselves stranded on a planet of hostile giants 🙃

House centipedes used to freak me out a lot but then I saw a post of someone who keeps them as pets admiring the elegance of their form and movement etc. and I was like oh well they are very beautiful, and they don’t really bother me anymore…

I think it’s neat how there are harmless creatures that have just…adapted to the niche of living in our homes?

Most of the staff are spiders - we have a significant number of pholcids who loooove to help us deal with false widows (who we're less happy to have in the house since they can give an unpleasant bite and we have cats who don't know any better) and escaped reptile livefood.

And then there are the escapees - reptile livefood that is not in the reptile enclosure I put it in. That's why we have staff.

regarding fruit juice: there's apparently a misconception that Any Sugar At All will dehydrate you, and that's simply not true. yes, sugar will make you pee more when consumed in large amounts, but 1) the natural sugar in fruits won't do this to you 2) great news! a lot of fruit juices exist without any added sugar in them! 3) honestly even having a glass of the fruit juice with added sugar won't completely dehydrate you as long as you're also drinking water throughout the day. if its hot you deserve a cold treat of a drink!!! can't go wrong with fruit juice!!!

regarding gatorade: maybe this isn't an every day drink, but guess what: if it's 110F/40C or hotter outside, and you don't have AC, or you're moving around a lot outside of the AC, and you're sweating buckets: that's when you drink a gatorade.

gatorade exists to replenish all the electrolytes (salt) and glucose (sugar) that you sweat out. YES it is meant for athletes to drink during intensive work outs and not necessarily for people who aren't doing that kind of exercise. BUT GUESS WHAT! when you're sweating buckets because you had to walk to the bus in extreme heat, that's intensive exercise. please feel free to drink a gatorade after that! that's its intended use case!!!!

no: neither of these drinks should be a total replacement for water. but drinking a lot of water and then treating yourself to a fruit juice with lunch is a good idea!!! drinking a gatorade becuase you just had to walk for 20 minutes in the heat is a good idea!!!

Please Stop Spreading Misinformation About Drinks!!! It's fine if you drink things that aren't water!!!! Yes you should probably always be drinking water but drinking something else As Well isn't going to hurt you!!!! okay!!!! its fine!!!!!!

Can just imagine all the girlies on tiktok going "I know this is a bit controversial but I honestly love using limestone as a gastrolith. Not only can you readily forage it but they are just so pretty when smoothed out after regurgitating them"

We promised there'd be more to come from Dragonchoice this week, and here it is!

Dragonchoice: Recap has arrived! Continue your weyrlings' stories from Dragonchoice: Candidate with our long-awaited minisode - re-living Hatching day from a new perspective, getting to know your dragonets better, and becoming involved in a brand-new mystery at Madellon Weyr!

Dragonchoice: Recap is your weyrling's story so far more than a full game, but it still has over 40 Achievements, custom results pages to be posted and shared, and a huge amount of Chris S Baily's @dragonsintheattic superb artwork to enjoy!