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After the suicide mission, if you destroy the base and go paragon:

Illusive Man: "The technology from that base could have secured human dominance in the galaxy. Against the Reapers and beyond."

Shepard: "Human dominance, or just Cerberus?"

Illusive Man: "Strength for Cerberus is strength for every human.

"Cerberus is humanity."

Have I mentioned lately this is why I like Saren better than TIM?

Saren was focused on saving the galaxy from the Reapers.

TIM wants to use the Reapers to rule the galaxy.

I find Saren much more sympathetic.

amorphousturtle

#saren's so convinced of their power that he thinks the only way to survive is to join them #that makes the reapers terrifying #meanwhile tim thinks he can beat them. or rule them #that makes the reapers look a lot less powerful

Saren, the most decorated and trusted Spectre the Council has ever known. Stops at nothing to get the job done and protect Citadel Space. Lets nothing get in his way, no matter how many die to achieve it.

And he can't see a way out.

That's absolutely terrifying. And you only learn this half way through the game! They don't start with that, they let you get your footing and a sense of the scale and danger. THEN they drop the "I wish there was a better way, but the REAL enemy is just too powerful" reveal.

It's not just "a Big Bad at the end of the final dungeon", Saren's a person with history and presence and a surprisingly empathetic driving motive behind him.

Meanwhile, TIMmy is a garden variety bigot with delusions of world galactic domination.

He didn't bring you back, Miranda and Wilson and their teams did that. He didn't build or design the SR2, he didn't make EDI, he... didn't do much of anything. And it's not his money paying for it, since Cerberus was dependent on Alliance funding and then "contributions" from asshats like Henry Lawson. He's not even capital in this situation, he's a wannabe techbro living off of burning his investors' capital. All his expensive suits, payed for with someone else's dime. And like a true wannabe techbro, all his "game changing" projects... how does Joker put it? "Get loose and start killing all his guys". Even Shepard, arguably his most successful project, turns on him without consequence. Paragon or Renegade.

So... why are we supposed to be impressed again?

And he's supposed to overpower the Big Baddies that had Saren quaking in his boots? Please.

#Mass Effect #i'll give tim a bit of credit #in that he did establish cerberus #that must've taken a hell of a lot of charisma and planning #but. the follow through leaves much to be desired #and tim. you are NOT going to rule the reapers

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plaguedocboi

I remember when I was younger, anytime I watched a movie where the characters have to kill a scary monster/alien, I always thought the act of killing it was intended to be part of the horror. Like there’s this amazing creature that we’ve never seen before, and maybe under different circumstances we could’ve coexisted with it, but it’s trying to attack you and you have to defend yourself, but by destroying it you also destroy the ability to ever understand it and that’s sad and is supposed to make you feel conflicted.

It was not until well into my adulthood that I realized most people do not have complicated feelings about movies where people have to kill a scary alien monster, nor is that necessarily meant to be part of the narrative (unless it very obviously is). They just want the scary thing to die because it’s scary. I don’t have a real conclusion to this I just started thinking about it for some reason.

bogleech

I always felt I couldn't possibly be upset about dying to an alien monster because proof of otherwordly life is exactly what it'd take for me to die happy

#people

After the suicide mission, if you destroy the base and go paragon:

Illusive Man: "The technology from that base could have secured human dominance in the galaxy. Against the Reapers and beyond."

Shepard: "Human dominance, or just Cerberus?"

Illusive Man: "Strength for Cerberus is strength for every human.

"Cerberus is humanity."

Have I mentioned lately this is why I like Saren better than TIM?

Saren was focused on saving the galaxy from the Reapers.

TIM wants to use the Reapers to rule the galaxy.

I find Saren much more sympathetic.

#mass effect #mass effect 2 replay #saren also makes the reapers more frightening in my opinion #saren's so convinced of their power that he thinks the only way to survive is to join them #that makes the reapers terrifying #meanwhile tim thinks he can beat them. or rule them #that makes the reapers look a lot less powerful #harbringer and his personal beef with shepard is not helping

Suicide Mission, facing the human reaper:

Edi: "The Reapers subdued the Protheans long ago. Probabilities suggest they attempted to create a Prothean Reaper. And failed.

"Over time, they adapted the Protheans to suit their needs. Changed them. Turned them into workers. Tools for the Reapers."

I disagree with Edi. The Reapers have existed for billions of years. They've harvested countless species. But they weren't able to transform the protheans into a Reaper?

Not buying it.

And why turn the protheans into Collectors because they couldn't create a Reaper from them? Why bother?

Or - more practically - why not turn the protheans into a Reaper AND the Collectors?

It took the Reapers centuries to harvest the protheans. To be blunt, that gave the protheans time to breed - to create more bodies for the Reapers to harvest and transform into a Reaper and the Collectors.

I think that's more likely than the Reapers not being able to figure out a prothean reaper.

#mass effect #mass effect 2 replay

Suicide Mission -

I loathe opening the valves for the tech specialist.

Who thought it great to have a mission where Shepard has to move fast with ME2’s terrible movement?

#mass effect #mass effect 2 replay

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Unpopular opinion: I'm not fond of the suicide mission.

Aesthetically, it feels like a rehash of the abandoned Collector ship. Same setting, same enemies. I didn't like it the first time and the second isn't an improvement.

Yes, choosing who does what and the possibility of losing squad mates adds a twist... But otherwise it's just not interesting enough to hold my attention.

Of the three games, I think ME2 has the least interesting final mission. Priority: Earth has its issues, but at least it has the section where you say farewell to everyone.

#mass effect #mass effect 2 replay #me1 illos and climbing the citadel are winners for me #easily best atmosphere #but that section on earth at base camp is also very good #the suicide mission just doesn't hit the right beats

batmanisagatewaydrug

sorry to be a broken record every month but christ menstruation is a stupid concept. oooooh excuse me for not getting pregnant, why the fuck is there goo falling out of me about it? grow the fuck up and reabsorb that shit for nutrients.

#people

What the ME2 loading screens tell you: You can skip dialogue and cutscenes!

The truth: There are so many you cannot. And it is painful.

#mass effect #mass effect 2 replay

dragonflight203

BioWare should have updated each squad mate’s dialogue after the Collector kidnapping.

It feels… off for them to say their standard line.

You don’t have any opinions about the crew being going and the Normandy nearly lost?

dragonflight203

Figures that Kasumi and Zaeed are the only ones with lines related to it

Their whole schtisk as DLC companions is that their dialogue on the Normandy is handled differently.

#mass effect #mass effect 2 replay

Fourth conversation with Legion, if you permit them to contact the rest of the geth:

Edi: "I have never interfaced with another machine intelligence.

"Legion is a thousand voices talking at once. What it contacted was beyond my comprehension. A mind the size of the galactic arm."

And ME3 does nothing with this!

So many possibilities - use the geth to calculate a means to defeat the reapers. Have them control all of the galaxy's ships to give them better odds in combat.

Hell, have them hack a compromised Reaper. Or a mass effect relay. (The Normandy does have the IFF!)

But no. Nothing. As usual.

Just another ME2 plot hook ME3 ignored.

#mass effect #mass effect 2 replay

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dragonflight203

A thought during the Collector kidnapping:

Edi asked Joker to set her free.

She did not - that we know of - ask any of the rest of the crew, even though there were presumably members closer to the AI core and Engineering.

There are many possible reasons for this:

-Perhaps Joker was the only crew member left with the rights to make the changes

-Edi wanted the rest of the crew to buy Joker time. He wouldn't be able to contribute to holding off the Collectors

-And the most likely, Edi thought Joker would be the most likely to listen to her. They had spent the entire game speaking to each other; how often did anyone else speak to Edi?

But also... I wonder if Edi wanted Joker to do it because that meant he would be the most likely to survive.

If he was making the changes, she had to keep him away from the Collectors. If anyone lived, it would be him.

If he wasn't, then the 'right' thing to do would be for him to help buy the one(s) making the changes time. He would likely die or be kidnapped.

Was Edi perhaps a bit selfish in her choice?

dgcatanisiri

EDI will likely give a listing of various reasons to define her logic of why Joker was the one she asked to unshackle her. All of them are justifiable and reasonable and completely valid.

And I do think that it was her being selfish all the same. Because there may well have been other, additional measures she could have taken, or others she could have guided to safety, even if she couldn't save everyone, but she prioritized JUST getting Joker to the AI Core, and not suggesting anyone else head into the ducts - why not Gabby and/or Kenneth, or Doctor Chakwas, for example? People who already work in the spaces where she needed him to get to? She was making to protect him first.

Sure, you could probably excuse one hidden life sign over a handful, but... She still picked the guy furthest from these places to prioritize, not any of those who were closer.

I do also think that there's a level of benign manipulation on her part - I think she knew that, with the guilt he carried for the loss of the original Normandy, he was also the one she could turn to who would go to any stretch in order to preserve the ship, to not lose another Normandy. None of the other crew was holding on to that kind of weight, which is why she knew that he would be willing to go to those lengths.

#mass effect #joker #good point about joker's guilt over the sr-1!#edi IS the SR-2 #optimizing its (her) chance of survival under the circumstances is understandable

Fourth conversation with Legion, about geth like them:

Shepard: "How many other geth are like you?"

Legion: "None. This platform was built to operate within organic space. This task was not suited for a network.

"Geth installed in mobile platforms always operate in networks. However, most geth remain within server hubs."

I wonder if the reason Legion seems different than other geth is because the programs that form Legion by necessity are outliers.

Legion:

-Is a platform. Programs that do not like platforms - which seems to be the majority - will not be part of them.

-Is not pat of a network. Programs that dislike or fear the idea of being cut off will not be part of them. This is likely to be the majority.

-Operates in organic space. Programs that loathe organics will not be part of the platform.

So of course Legion will express different ideas and opinions than the geth majority. Their programs differ from the geth majority; the gestalt will as well.

#mass effect #mass effect 2 replay #the true weirdness is that we still meet 'legion' in me3 #why weren't they absorbed back into the whole?#chalk that one up to me3 handling the geth poorly

Fourth conversation with Legion, about geth intelligence:

Shepard: "So I'm talking to a thousand programs. But not a thousand personalities?"

Legion: "Each individual is equivalent to one of your virtual intelligence programs. Together, we form a single gestalt intellect. What you refer to as 'Legion'.

"As individual programs, we are no more than your software. Only when we share data do we become more."

Yet the individual programs are distinct enough to disagree and schism.

That either means virtual intelligences have more personality than we give them credit for, or the programs are only 'aware' when communing with other programs.

Which is probably why they respond so poorly when servers are destroyed - they feel themselves becoming 'dumber'. 'Less'. The possibility they may dwindle to nothing.

Like the crew of the Hugo Gernsback (Jacob's father's ship) eating the local food, losing their higher intellectual abilities, and knowing they used to be more. But they reach for it and it's gone.

I can understand why the geth in ME3 panicked and allied with the Reapers after the quarians attacked.

I don't agree - but I can understand why they felt so desperate.

And, well. They weren't at their best.

#mass effect #mass effect 2 replay

Huh. The Collector kidnapping triggers new dialogue for Legion.

Not what I'd normally consider a mission, but I'll take it.

#mass effect #mass effect 2 replay

Speaking to Edi after the Collector kidnapping:

Edi: "Currently, Cerberus consists of approximately 150 agents and operators organized into three cells."

Well, that didn't at last.

At least establishing Edi as an unreliable narrator means we have the flexibility to dismiss any exposition she provides as possibly drawn from unreliable sources.

#mass effect #mass effect 2 replay

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I had touch typing drilled into me when I was in elementary school.

I did not anticipate wishing I had mastered finger pecking because I would have a cat that refused to sit on my lap but still demanded pets.

#cat

After the Collector kidnapping:

Shepard (renegade): "Damn right you're sorry. Maybe we should dump you. We've got an AI, what do we need a human pilot for?"

Edi: "My capabilities are expansive, Shepard, but the human interface is critical. I have observed that effective tactics are not always predictable."

Shepard (renegade): "If I didn't know better, I'd say you were self-limiting to protect him."

Edi: "That would be counterproductive. My survival is at stake as well."

My suspicions that Edi arranges her logic to favor Joker is gaining support.

#mass effect #mass effect 2 replay

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