Hi, I'm Tris. I'm a very nerdy aspec cat. My main fandoms are Good Omens and OFMD, I'm an Izzy/Con Enjoyer and a proud Canyonite. 🔞 I'm very much like Aziraphale in how I act. I'm Autistic, queer, disabled, chronically ill, chronic pain, ID/LD, MOGAI, white, 34. Support good faith identities. Multigender. genderfluid, and xenogender. Butch lesbian, lesboy. Plural Kit/Kitself 🏳️🌈♿🖖🏳️⚧️ Header by Chorraich on Twitter
It's an odd choice to put Asa and Anthony things on the Aziracrow bench when they have absolutely no way of knowing what that bench represents. If you really wanted to honor Asanthony properly, you'd take the bench, feed it into a wood chipper, replace it with a new bench that looks kind of similar to the old one but obviously isn't the same bench, and then pretend the original bench never existed.
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Some people really struggle to understand the concept of "Free will" don't they?
Especially in a universe with a god and a devil who HAVE a role to play as the very LEADERS of their OWN game and who do it very precisely and affirm their said roles (literally, starting with the first 5 minutes of S1.)
Free will isnt about "doing what you want"
And far too many of you use this flawed definition to criticize the finale, even though your explanation is wrong from the start. Don't blame the writing of a show based ONLY on a definition you don't understand.
But some of you aren't ready for that discussion just yet
Hey so quick question, I would say I'm ready for a discussion, I would love to know, what is your definition of Free Will?
It must be pretty nice to have perfect clarity of concepts that have been debated in the school of philosophy since its inception, considering it is in fact, as you said a concept, an idea.
And since you're here and you were born with perfect understanding of reality and our relativeness to it, can you tell me with all certainty what freedom is? and justice? and morals? and ethics? Can you tell me what these things are not? Can you tell me exactly where I can look to find them in the world?
I think you'll find those are things that only exist inside us, inside our collective understanding and imagination, these are not objective facts of the universe, they're not the products of math equations that are quantifiable and measurable, with a definitive yes or no answer.
That's where the whole 'philosophy' thing comes into play, tricky I know, but I'm sure you have the objective definition to that as well.
And since I see you're subscribing to the idea of 'soulmates' can you explain to me with all certainty what a soul is? And how one can be mated to another soul and destined by fate to meet and fall in love? and I'm really curious how that isn't determinist?
See my understanding of philosophy, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, is that there are no right and wrong answers, there is no 'winning' in philosophical debate, because, to reiterate, it does not play in the realm of facts, rather it is the realm of general understanding, or even multiple understandings, very very tricky right?
Through discussion and inquiry, we come to a higher understanding of our assumptions then we did before we started, that seems to be the goal if I'm not mistaken, so maybe we can try to do that.
From what I can tell, the general understanding of Free Will is uh...yep its doing what you want, that's certainly one way to put it at least.
The way I would put it is, Free Will is having the fundamental capacity to make a choice, that originates from you as an individual, and in my opinion, this is something that the characters in Good Omens show they have full use of, many times.
What I do know for sure though, and I can not stress this enough, is that Free Will is not something that can be made to be a real objective fact in the universe.
It's not gravity, or evolution, or the life cycle of a toad, or breathing in oxygen and exhaling carbon monoxide.
Its an abstract. definitionally.
Nobody had to destroy themselves for an abstract, you just close your eyes and wow there it is, Free Will, and there's Mercy and over there is Reason and even Love, skies the limit on concepts over here.
Just saying, if you're gonna talk the talk, you should walk the walk, and while we're at it, I would say deciding not to loop in all of humanity in the conversation of whether or not they're 'real people' when given the opportunity to doesn't give me a lot of faith in the characters ethical standing with anyone's 'free will.'
Seems a bit arrogant to make the decision on humanities behalf to sacrifice them for an abstract to be 'real', especially since that's fucking impossible.
Take this post as an opportunity to actually engage with these talking points that you're alluding too, I would recommend that over claiming these talking points are 'stupid and irrelevant' and people who disagree with you are 'lacking media literacy' and just...stopping there, please enlighten us!
Hey, in return, I'll give you my spiel on how Free Will is actually...kind of bullshit, and that's not a exactly a new hot take, if we're serious about having discussions.
If Free Will never existed before the Universe is restarted, was Crowley and Aziraphale's decision predetermined by God or something?
Did Aziraphale say yes to Crowley's decision not because he loved Crowley and would die for him, but because some cosmic force made him do it?
Did Archangel Michael destroy the world because God's little voice in their head tell them to?
Did Nina and Maggie fall in love because God had so much free time to micromanage relationship between two humans among billions of them? Did God have the time to even plot out the life of every single human in the world?
Did Adam and Eve eat the apple because God forced them to? If so, why bother making up rules and protect the apple tree? Literally Crowley's questions. Hello???
Did Aziraphale and Crowley fall in love in the first place because God like to make her funko pop kissed? (No shade to Rob. It's just a reference I think the fandom would get.)
Did Adam choose to stop Armageddon because God made him do it?
You can ask soooo many questions.
I have seen people say that Free Will here means the predetermined Ineffable Plan. But the thing is, the plan itself does not oppress free will. The plan, as GO3 showed, was to delete the whole universe. But it does not determine the action of every single character. Think of it as a project. You know what the product has to be, but no one is policing how you get the product. That's how I saw the Ineffable Plan of GO3.
Speaking of the Ineffable Plan. I don't even think it is "destruction of the universe" for Book verse because the whole point of the book is that God was absent and seemingly Heaven made up the Great/Ineffable plan because God wasn't telling them anything. They had to keep angels working or else they would have another riot.
No one knows what the Ineffable Plan is. They can only guess from what they went through.
The whole point of Good Omens was never about "the end of the world" or "the end of a story" or "Author vs character". The whole point was "whatever the future holds, you choose how you get there."
p/s: "If you gotta go, why not go with style?" Crowley would never choose this ending for himself and Aziraphale.
THEN TAKE THE UNIVERSE AND GRIND IT DOWN TO THE SMALLEST POWDER AND SIEVE IT THROUGH THE FINEST SIEVE, AND THEN SHOW ME ONE ATOM OF FREE WILL, ONE MOLECULE OF SELF DETERMINATION.
Crowley: "Uuuh..."
YOU CAN'T SERPENT, IT'S NOT SOMETHING YOU CAN ALCHEMIZE THROUGH DESTRUCTION OR THAT SHE CAN WEAVE FROM STARDUST, ITS SOMETHING YOU MAKE TRUE BECAUSE PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT IT IS. YOU USED TO BE SO CLEVER CROWLEY.
Crowley: "Ack, ngk, well...I've just been having a rough time lately..."
YES, WHY DON'T YOU TAKE YOUR WEEPY PRINCIPALITY AND TAKE SOME BREAKFAST AND COLLECT YOURSELVES.
Aziraphale:"...there is no where to have breakfast?"
THERE IS, AS LONG AS THERE IS SOMEONE TO EAT IT, THERE WILL ALWAYS BE SOMEWHERE TO HAVE BREAKFAST, NOW GO ON, THESE TWO AND I ARE GOING TO HAVE A LONG CHAT ABOUT RESPONSIBILITY AND THROWING AWAY PETS WHEN WE'RE BORED OF THEM.
The idea of Aziraphale and Crowley being turned into humans at the end of the show would likely feel more satisfying if they weren’t *already* human in the ways that matter the most. It’s a completely redundant change or, “metamorphosis.”
The trope of metamorphosis in much traditional folklore and mythology comes from the idea that the individual who has been “changed,” is being forced to learn a perspective either about the life of a creature they have been oppressing, or the moral integrity and/or corruption that it represents. In a lot of Greek mythology specifically, it is also used to represent similar divine punishment (whether or not this is justified) or protection, but even then I don’t think that that fits the narrative the Good Omens TV show had been setting up.
Beauty and the Beast, the Frog Prince, Metamorphosis (Kafka, not a fairytale but still fits and carries similar themes), Arachne, Galanthis, Io, Lycaon, Children of Lir, etc.
In European folklore (beauty and the beast, the frog prince) characters often change to learn a lesson that typically involves humility, chastity or charity. I would argue that Crowley and Aziraphale, through their time on Earth, have already undergone such a transformation. Sure they’ve learnt to, “sin,” (or at least Aziraphale has), but largely they have learnt to love and appreciate the world around them, with less arrogance than those above and below. Here they’ve (somewhat) learnt humility, they both demonstrate charity at the airbase towards Adam and humanity writ large in avoiding the apocalypse, and I don’t really believe that chastity is something either one of them has ever worried about. These actions are all a product of their exposure to humanity - it has, as written in the book, made them more human and thus allowed them to act in more legitimately compassionate and, “good,” ways. They have undergone metamorphosis.
Even if analysed from the perspective of Hell with their “sinning,” this still works - after they defy Heaven at the airbase they live forevermore amongst mortal men in sin as a “punishment,” for this rebellion, an association which has already made Crowley better at tempting and Aziraphale more gluttonous and slothful.
These are not necessarily contradictory results either, as where the book differs from folklore morality is that the main “lesson,” that A and C are taught is to be more human, which includes all of humanity’s “good,” and “bad” traits. Again, they have undergone a metamorphosis that has changed them to better represent the “lowly,” creatures that they were (unintentionally) forced to live amongst by Heaven and Hell.
So, From both a Heavenly and Hellish lense they can be argued to have “changed,” for the better - which is the beauty of the message of the book and its satirical commentary on politics and human nature.
Which all goes to say - they don’t need to fully “become,” human by the end of the show, because that defeats the point of them learning this, “lesson.” By which I mean they’ve already *learnt it.* You could argue that it’s the final stage of the metamorphosis - letting go of their divine power and becoming fully human, after 6000 years of “readying,” themselves, but that doesn’t work unless they retain all of their memories, because otherwise that completely wipes the lesson itself from their mind!
The idea of them meeting and becoming human (and that it’s implied that they find each other in “every universe”) to me speaks more of the Greek divine-punishment angle, rather than a satisfying or “sweet” ending.
Arachne, a weaver, is turned into a giant spider because she dares to challenge Athena’s weaving prowess. Galanthis is turned into a weasel by Hera for facilitating the birth of Heracles and attempting to save his human mother. They are both examples of human characters who are not explicitly morally “wrong,” in their conduct - their only crime is defying the Gods. This is somewhat reflected in the ending of Go3 - Crowley and Aziraphale challenge God’s plan and as such are disintegrated and turned into humans, living out a similar story over-and-over again across universes, yet unable to save their original universe as a reminder that nothing, not even and angel and a demon, can defy divinity and come out unscathed. The issue is, this ending is portrayed to a degree as more of a bittersweet tragedy, or in some cases a triumph, than a true tragedy.
Certain legitimately “bittersweet,” tragedies such as the Children of Lir and Io feature human characters being turned into animals (“lesser creatures”) for protection. The animal itself specifically correlates to the moral of the story and the moral character/narrative purpose of the individuals - swans for the innocence, nobility and beauty of Lir’s children, and a cow for the inversion of Io’s beauty and her role as Zeus’s consort (I’m not as familiar with the story so forgive that lacklustre analysis, but you get the gist).
One could argue that A and C being turned into humans is a similar form of divine, “protection,” their celestial/occult love being so strong that it is literally etched into the fabric of every new universe, but I don’t think it works either (or sends a very strong message). In both Children of Lir and Io - those who undergo metamorphosis do so as a result of either divine power beyond their control or as a last resort against evil. They have no agency, to the point where they quite literally lose their humanity and human free will as a result of the machinations of OUTSIDE FORCES, which contradicts the message of good omens the book and s1 of the show.
In s2 and s3 of Good Omens, some of their more “human,” characteristics are dialled down - especially in s3, where both of them are almost completely isolated from humanity and are its *sole* protectors in the final hour. But this isn’t done intentionally. Or rather it is - but not for any effective narrative-serving purpose. It’s the result of rushed production and a show that should never have been extended past its first season without a clear, structured story.
Post s1, Azriaphale and Crowley are at once de-humanised in their own duo-bubble, and then shown to still be perfectly capable of making human-decisions without human-influence. This is done for the “drama,” to make their relationship feel fragile and exciting, as opposed to worn-in and known, and to put them at the centre of the show’s universe so that the audience has a titular couple to follow.
The problem with this is that it forgets the actual human element of humanity - that to be human is something that BOTH Crowley and Aziraphale have to *learn* to become, and that as a result they aren’t all that separate from. Showing them un-learning their lessons from s1, and indicating that a lot of their more “human” traits developed as a result of *each other* rather than *actual people* makes it seem like they never actually learnt a lesson on humanity, from humans, at all. After s1, it feels as though retroactively there was no true metamorphosis before they are turned fully human (they don’t once consult humans about what to do about the second coming, which you might think was something they should have learnt to do after s1, humans hardly have any influence in the story’s outcome), even though the audience was strung along to believe that there was (what we do see in s1, Maggie and Nina’s storyline) - so the final, “true,” metamorphosis STILL doesn’t feel earned!
This means that, ultimately, changing them into humans at the end of go3 served no purpose in terms of playing into the “lessons,” they had to learn about being more human because a) they had already learnt that lesson in s1, and b) erasing their memories means that, even as a final act of ultimate human-learning, it doesn’t make sense as they have no memories of what they’re supposed to be learning in the first place. Neither does it strictly meet the requirements to be a metamorphic tragedy or a means of divine protection, as both of these tropes go against a) the messaging and earlier progress of both the book and s1 and b) the way in which the ending was framed.
I think something that a lot of discourse around good omens 3 misses, and something that I’m not sure I’ve managed to impart well in my own critiques - is that the whole concept of free will is ineffable. Whatever you argue is technically correct.
That’s the whole reason they’re able to get out of the mess of going against the great plan at the airbase - Beelzebub and Gabriel/Metatron (depending on whether it’s book or show canon) can’t actually argue that what happened wasn’t a part of the great plan.
What matters first and foremost is that it was freedom of choice, Adam chose not to end the world and he was able to stand by that. Regardless of whether or not he’s a pawn in a greater game of chess or solitaire, demons and angels ultimately have no real say over Adam or humanity.
I personally believe that this means they do have free will, and that the ineffability of it is both a narrative device to make you think about what you’ve read AND a tongue-in-cheek prod at the un-falsifiable-ness of religion.
That’s why it’s so important that God never shows up - you’re not quite meant to be sure about it one way or another, and you’re certainly not meant to be given an ultimatum (loss of choice). That’s neither ineffable nor particularly clever.
This is what I've been trying to pinpoint for 2 months but never managed to put into words. God not showing up was that element that gave the story that sense of ineffability, that element that every story must retain in order to stay interesting and hold the sense of wonder/suspension of disbelief. You had immense powers at work, yet there was still that element of mystery that held everything together.
God showing up is like suddenly laying all the cards on the table and calling it a day. There is nothing anymore, it's all laid bare, there's nothing beyond god. She's the last voice heard, the end it all. Suddenly from "everything is possible" we went to "nothing is possible anymore there is only one (1) plot point". Boo-ring.
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I think something that a lot of discourse around good omens 3 misses, and something that I’m not sure I’ve managed to impart well in my own critiques - is that the whole concept of free will is ineffable. Whatever you argue is technically correct.
That’s the whole reason they’re able to get out of the mess of going against the great plan at the airbase - Beelzebub and Gabriel/Metatron (depending on whether it’s book or show canon) can’t actually argue that what happened wasn’t a part of the great plan.
What matters first and foremost is that it was freedom of choice, Adam chose not to end the world and he was able to stand by that. Regardless of whether or not he’s a pawn in a greater game of chess or solitaire, demons and angels ultimately have no real say over Adam or humanity.
I personally believe that this means they do have free will, and that the ineffability of it is both a narrative device to make you think about what you’ve read AND a tongue-in-cheek prod at the un-falsifiable-ness of religion.
That’s why it’s so important that God never shows up - you’re not quite meant to be sure about it one way or another, and you’re certainly not meant to be given an ultimatum (loss of choice). That’s neither ineffable nor particularly clever.
i don't know how to articulate well that like, no matter the good intention or reason or logic A/C choosing to hit the reset button was, it's messed up they made that decision in the first place. they should not have HAD to.
"oh well humanity were all dead anyway at that point in the movie they couldn't have been involved'. but they SHOULD have been the third player. they SHOULD have had a seat at the table. Jesus would've been the perfect representation to tell them fucking no, let's try to fix what we already HAVE. this world is messed up but it's WORTH saving.
i love them, i do, but the fact they made the choice on humanity's behalf should not have been theirs to begin with.
In hindsight, I guess it's obvious that the only way Season 2 was meant to be a bridge was as a bridge from Good Omens: The Nice and Accurate Prophecies of Agnes Nutter, the collaborative effort between Terry Pratchett and NG to Good Omens: The Story of Crowley the Extremely Cool Demon Who Was Also the Best Angel, the story as NG originally envisioned it. And it is equally obvious to me that he did not understand how Crowley had evolved from his original idea and that he resented Aziraphale's inclusion in the story at all. They were never meant to be a couple in his eyes but he was happy to play with the idea as a way to make his self-insert suffering martyr version of Crowley even sadder by turning Aziraphale from a co-main character and equal partner into an unworthy love interest who never really understood him.
And it all just pisses me off because while I can dismiss S3 as a piece of shit written by a piece of shit, part of the legacy it leaves behind is the poisoning of the fandom, now and in the future, against a character I have loved for 30 years.
(I know Crowley was treated very badly by Season 3 too. Please don't @ me to tell me how much worse he had it - that was the intent. They were both done extremely dirty, but you're meant to sympathize with Crowley and to see Aziraphale as cruel.)
What a "tribute" to an alleged friend, completely assassinating the character he created for your shared story just to elevate your own. "For Terry" indeed. 😠
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On the matter of tags: an earnest attempt to communicate
As a random member of the Good Omens fandom community, I’d just like to toss my hat into the ring and attempt to clear up some misunderstandings. I also want to encourage some honest, good-faith dialogue in a severely fractured fandom.
This is not an attempt to convince anyone to interpret the finale a specific way. This is a practical conversation about how we discuss the finale in fan spaces.
For the purposes of this discussion, I will be focusing on tags as they are used on social media platforms like Tumblr, Twitter, Bluesky, and Instagram. AO3 tagging is considerable more complex and warrants a whole convo in its own right, so I won't focus on that here.
THIS POST INCLUDES DISCUSSION OF SUICIDE.
So, tags. Tags have become a thorny issue in the Good Omens fandom. I suspect this issue is so pertinent now, two months after the finale aired, because most of us have dropped “GO3 spoilers” tags, which people would have been filtering out if they did not wish to see anything from the finale. The finale is no longer a fresh commodity, so we are all trying to determine for ourselves what the next phase of our engagement with fandom will look like.
In fandom spaces, tags are a courtesy. No one can force anyone to use tags, of course. But tagging is a long-running standard of fandom etiquette across multiple online platforms. Tags are tools that help us find or filter out specific content. But what happens when we disagree on what tags should even be used in the first place? When tags themselves are a battleground?
I have seen assumptions that finale dislikers are demanding that all content with Asa Fell and Professor Anthony Crowley be tagged with “suicide.” It's possible that I’ve missed some significant conversations, but as someone on the disliker side, I have not seen anyone demand that Asanthony shippers use a "suicide" tag on all their posts featuring Asanthony. If anyone has asked that, I agree that it would be unreasonable! But I strongly suspect this perception comes from a game of fandom telephone in which different conversations are being conflated.
What IS being asked:
All content featuring Asa and Anthony should be tagged with their names or their ship name, Asanthony.
The "ineffable husbands" ship name should not be used for Asanthony.
Content warnings are strongly encouraged when sharing visuals of the scene where God grants Crowley and Aziraphale’s request to be removed from existence, specifically the moments as they disintegrate, as this decision is interpreted by many fans as a suicide.
Let’s address that first point now.
Tagging Asanthony as "Asanthony" makes sense. I think most people are already doing this. If you’re not doing this, well… I strongly advise you to reconsider. Tags aren’t just for those filtering out content, but for those seeking it. Someone who doesn’t want to see Asanthony can use this tool to avoid them, and someone who is specifically seeking out Asanthony content can use the tag to find them and share some appreciation.
Where we have some disagreement is the second point listed above: whether Asanthony deserve to be tagged with the general “ineffable husbands” ship name as well. I don’t think we’re ever going to agree on this one. Some people do see them as the same ship, and others do not. Personally I’m someone who does not see Asanthony as "ineffable," but I am okay to concede on someone using the general ship tag for them, as it really does boil down to one's own interpretation. In my view, so long as "Asanthony" is also used, tag them as you see fit.
Now for the third point. This is where I'll be talking about suicide.
Suicide is obviously an incredibly sensitive and distressing subject, one that is highly likely to carry a personal resonance for many fans on all sides of the GO3 debate. I understand why people are upset to have to bring this subject up in their tags when they do not see the final scene that way.
But if you do find it upsetting to even consider using that tag... that means you agree that this topic is distressing, yes? The ineffables' decision was genuinely genuinely distressing for people who interpreted their choice as a suicide. I am pleading with you to understand this: there are members of our community who struggle with suicide ideation, and that scene genuinely triggered some of these people.
You don’t like to see this tag imposed. Well, others don’t like to suddenly come across visuals that in their view shows a suicide. Not seeing Crowley and Aziraphale's decision as a suicide is just as much an interpretation as seeing it as a suicide is.
We will never agree on our interpretations of Crowley and Aziraphale's final request to God and how it played out. The fact remains that the scene where they make this choice and it is granted is triggering to a significant portion of the fandom. This is not a niche opinion.
We won't be able to reconcile our views on this. But we do have to share fandom spaces together. Blocking others who have a different approach to discussing this scene is always an option. But maybe we can also attempt to reach a middle ground in the form of a tag.
I have chatted with others about this, and an idea I have seen discussed is for the fandom to come up with a neutral term for the scene where God grants Crowley and Aziraphale's request, akin to how we settled on “the Final Fifteen” for the last fifteen minutes of season 2. This term should not favour one interpretation over another.
Some suggestions:
The Final Half Hour (or… the Final Twenty? How long is this scene? Anyone clocked it?)
The Decision
We’ve Come to a Decision (WCTOAD? Well, I do like toads)
Please chime in if you have other suggestions!
Like I said at the top, no one can force anyone to use tags. This is ultimately down to one's own discretion.
But I think it's fair to say that our fandom is currently in crisis. The community has fractured — or perhaps it is simply going through some very nasty growing pains. Maybe we can grow with it.
We will never be in a place where we all agree on GO3’s choices. Right now, we are all figuring out how we want to navigate this story and fandom we have all come to love. However we feel about the finale, we are all trying to find new ways forward.
We can argue about who’s right. We can block as we see fit. We can tag or not tag according to our own interpretation to make a point.
We can also decide to make productive choices that will help us all navigate our fandom spaces moving forward. Above all else, we can choose to be kind.
If you've read this far, thank you for hearing me out.
I concur wholeheartedly. Agreeing on some tags to use fandom-wide as a courtesy to each other would go a LONG way in regaining some mutual respect and kindness towards each other as a fandom. I don't think it's asking too much, and I think it would be beneficial to those that enjoyed the finale and those that found it upsetting alike.
Two months in and I feel like tensions are running higher, rather than fizzling out. Some people are actively seeking out conflict with each other, but there are also plenty of fans (on BOTH sides of the divide) that just want to keep doing their thing in peace.
The only way we can do that is if we tag our content appropriately, so that everyone has the chance to curate their own online experience.
It really just seems like basic fandom etiquette to me, and it's frustrating that we even need to argue about this.
On the matter of tags: an earnest attempt to communicate
As a random member of the Good Omens fandom community, I’d just like to toss my hat into the ring and attempt to clear up some misunderstandings. I also want to encourage some honest, good-faith dialogue in a severely fractured fandom.
This is not an attempt to convince anyone to interpret the finale a specific way. This is a practical conversation about how we discuss the finale in fan spaces.
For the purposes of this discussion, I will be focusing on tags as they are used on social media platforms like Tumblr, Twitter, Bluesky, and Instagram. AO3 tagging is considerable more complex and warrants a whole convo in its own right, so I won't focus on that here.
THIS POST INCLUDES DISCUSSION OF SUICIDE.
So, tags. Tags have become a thorny issue in the Good Omens fandom. I suspect this issue is so pertinent now, two months after the finale aired, because most of us have dropped “GO3 spoilers” tags, which people would have been filtering out if they did not wish to see anything from the finale. The finale is no longer a fresh commodity, so we are all trying to determine for ourselves what the next phase of our engagement with fandom will look like.
In fandom spaces, tags are a courtesy. No one can force anyone to use tags, of course. But tagging is a long-running standard of fandom etiquette across multiple online platforms. Tags are tools that help us find or filter out specific content. But what happens when we disagree on what tags should even be used in the first place? When tags themselves are a battleground?
I have seen assumptions that finale dislikers are demanding that all content with Asa Fell and Professor Anthony Crowley be tagged with “suicide.” It's possible that I’ve missed some significant conversations, but as someone on the disliker side, I have not seen anyone demand that Asanthony shippers use a "suicide" tag on all their posts featuring Asanthony. If anyone has asked that, I agree that it would be unreasonable! But I strongly suspect this perception comes from a game of fandom telephone in which different conversations are being conflated.
What IS being asked:
All content featuring Asa and Anthony should be tagged with their names or their ship name, Asanthony.
The "ineffable husbands" ship name should not be used for Asanthony.
Content warnings are strongly encouraged when sharing visuals of the scene where God grants Crowley and Aziraphale’s request to be removed from existence, specifically the moments as they disintegrate, as this decision is interpreted by many fans as a suicide.
Let’s address that first point now.
Tagging Asanthony as "Asanthony" makes sense. I think most people are already doing this. If you’re not doing this, well… I strongly advise you to reconsider. Tags aren’t just for those filtering out content, but for those seeking it. Someone who doesn’t want to see Asanthony can use this tool to avoid them, and someone who is specifically seeking out Asanthony content can use the tag to find them and share some appreciation.
Where we have some disagreement is the second point listed above: whether Asanthony deserve to be tagged with the general “ineffable husbands” ship name as well. I don’t think we’re ever going to agree on this one. Some people do see them as the same ship, and others do not. Personally I’m someone who does not see Asanthony as "ineffable," but I am okay to concede on someone using the general ship tag for them, as it really does boil down to one's own interpretation. In my view, so long as "Asanthony" is also used, tag them as you see fit.
Now for the third point. This is where I'll be talking about suicide.
Suicide is obviously an incredibly sensitive and distressing subject, one that is highly likely to carry a personal resonance for many fans on all sides of the GO3 debate. I understand why people are upset to have to bring this subject up in their tags when they do not see the final scene that way.
But if you do find it upsetting to even consider using that tag... that means you agree that this topic is distressing, yes? The ineffables' decision was genuinely genuinely distressing for people who interpreted their choice as a suicide. I am pleading with you to understand this: there are members of our community who struggle with suicide ideation, and that scene genuinely triggered some of these people.
You don’t like to see this tag imposed. Well, others don’t like to suddenly come across visuals that in their view shows a suicide. Not seeing Crowley and Aziraphale's decision as a suicide is just as much an interpretation as seeing it as a suicide is.
We will never agree on our interpretations of Crowley and Aziraphale's final request to God and how it played out. The fact remains that the scene where they make this choice and it is granted is triggering to a significant portion of the fandom. This is not a niche opinion.
We won't be able to reconcile our views on this. But we do have to share fandom spaces together. Blocking others who have a different approach to discussing this scene is always an option. But maybe we can also attempt to reach a middle ground in the form of a tag.
I have chatted with others about this, and an idea I have seen discussed is for the fandom to come up with a neutral term for the scene where God grants Crowley and Aziraphale's request, akin to how we settled on “the Final Fifteen” for the last fifteen minutes of season 2. This term should not favour one interpretation over another.
Some suggestions:
The Final Half Hour (or… the Final Twenty? How long is this scene? Anyone clocked it?)
The Decision
We’ve Come to a Decision (WCTOAD? Well, I do like toads)
Please chime in if you have other suggestions!
Like I said at the top, no one can force anyone to use tags. This is ultimately down to one's own discretion.
But I think it's fair to say that our fandom is currently in crisis. The community has fractured — or perhaps it is simply going through some very nasty growing pains. Maybe we can grow with it.
We will never be in a place where we all agree on GO3’s choices. Right now, we are all figuring out how we want to navigate this story and fandom we have all come to love. However we feel about the finale, we are all trying to find new ways forward.
We can argue about who’s right. We can block as we see fit. We can tag or not tag according to our own interpretation to make a point.
We can also decide to make productive choices that will help us all navigate our fandom spaces moving forward. Above all else, we can choose to be kind.
If you've read this far, thank you for hearing me out.
I would like to add that even if you argue that Asanthony can’t be called “ineffable husbands” (I don’t believe they should be) they should 100% NOT BE TAGGED AS AZIRACROW! They are NOT Aziraphale and Crowley! They are Asa and Anthony! Full stop. People who want nothing to do with them should not be duped into content about them by claiming they are the characters they replaced who, again, many see as having committed suicide so the new pair could live. You can’t have reincarnation without someone dying. That’s just how it works and for many of us, theh thought is beyond triggering.
On the matter of tags: an earnest attempt to communicate
As a random member of the Good Omens fandom community, I’d just like to toss my hat into the ring and attempt to clear up some misunderstandings. I also want to encourage some honest, good-faith dialogue in a severely fractured fandom.
This is not an attempt to convince anyone to interpret the finale a specific way. This is a practical conversation about how we discuss the finale in fan spaces.
For the purposes of this discussion, I will be focusing on tags as they are used on social media platforms like Tumblr, Twitter, Bluesky, and Instagram. AO3 tagging is considerable more complex and warrants a whole convo in its own right, so I won't focus on that here.
THIS POST INCLUDES DISCUSSION OF SUICIDE.
So, tags. Tags have become a thorny issue in the Good Omens fandom. I suspect this issue is so pertinent now, two months after the finale aired, because most of us have dropped “GO3 spoilers” tags, which people would have been filtering out if they did not wish to see anything from the finale. The finale is no longer a fresh commodity, so we are all trying to determine for ourselves what the next phase of our engagement with fandom will look like.
In fandom spaces, tags are a courtesy. No one can force anyone to use tags, of course. But tagging is a long-running standard of fandom etiquette across multiple online platforms. Tags are tools that help us find or filter out specific content. But what happens when we disagree on what tags should even be used in the first place? When tags themselves are a battleground?
I have seen assumptions that finale dislikers are demanding that all content with Asa Fell and Professor Anthony Crowley be tagged with “suicide.” It's possible that I’ve missed some significant conversations, but as someone on the disliker side, I have not seen anyone demand that Asanthony shippers use a "suicide" tag on all their posts featuring Asanthony. If anyone has asked that, I agree that it would be unreasonable! But I strongly suspect this perception comes from a game of fandom telephone in which different conversations are being conflated.
What IS being asked:
All content featuring Asa and Anthony should be tagged with their names or their ship name, Asanthony.
The "ineffable husbands" ship name should not be used for Asanthony.
Content warnings are strongly encouraged when sharing visuals of the scene where God grants Crowley and Aziraphale’s request to be removed from existence, specifically the moments as they disintegrate, as this decision is interpreted by many fans as a suicide.
Let’s address that first point now.
Tagging Asanthony as "Asanthony" makes sense. I think most people are already doing this. If you’re not doing this, well… I strongly advise you to reconsider. Tags aren’t just for those filtering out content, but for those seeking it. Someone who doesn’t want to see Asanthony can use this tool to avoid them, and someone who is specifically seeking out Asanthony content can use the tag to find them and share some appreciation.
Where we have some disagreement is the second point listed above: whether Asanthony deserve to be tagged with the general “ineffable husbands” ship name as well. I don’t think we’re ever going to agree on this one. Some people do see them as the same ship, and others do not. Personally I’m someone who does not see Asanthony as "ineffable," but I am okay to concede on someone using the general ship tag for them, as it really does boil down to one's own interpretation. In my view, so long as "Asanthony" is also used, tag them as you see fit.
Now for the third point. This is where I'll be talking about suicide.
Suicide is obviously an incredibly sensitive and distressing subject, one that is highly likely to carry a personal resonance for many fans on all sides of the GO3 debate. I understand why people are upset to have to bring this subject up in their tags when they do not see the final scene that way.
But if you do find it upsetting to even consider using that tag... that means you agree that this topic is distressing, yes? The ineffables' decision was genuinely genuinely distressing for people who interpreted their choice as a suicide. I am pleading with you to understand this: there are members of our community who struggle with suicide ideation, and that scene genuinely triggered some of these people.
You don’t like to see this tag imposed. Well, others don’t like to suddenly come across visuals that in their view shows a suicide. Not seeing Crowley and Aziraphale's decision as a suicide is just as much an interpretation as seeing it as a suicide is.
We will never agree on our interpretations of Crowley and Aziraphale's final request to God and how it played out. The fact remains that the scene where they make this choice and it is granted is triggering to a significant portion of the fandom. This is not a niche opinion.
We won't be able to reconcile our views on this. But we do have to share fandom spaces together. Blocking others who have a different approach to discussing this scene is always an option. But maybe we can also attempt to reach a middle ground in the form of a tag.
I have chatted with others about this, and an idea I have seen discussed is for the fandom to come up with a neutral term for the scene where God grants Crowley and Aziraphale's request, akin to how we settled on “the Final Fifteen” for the last fifteen minutes of season 2. This term should not favour one interpretation over another.
Some suggestions:
The Final Half Hour (or… the Final Twenty? How long is this scene? Anyone clocked it?)
The Decision
We’ve Come to a Decision (WCTOAD? Well, I do like toads)
Please chime in if you have other suggestions!
Like I said at the top, no one can force anyone to use tags. This is ultimately down to one's own discretion.
But I think it's fair to say that our fandom is currently in crisis. The community has fractured — or perhaps it is simply going through some very nasty growing pains. Maybe we can grow with it.
We will never be in a place where we all agree on GO3’s choices. Right now, we are all figuring out how we want to navigate this story and fandom we have all come to love. However we feel about the finale, we are all trying to find new ways forward.
We can argue about who’s right. We can block as we see fit. We can tag or not tag according to our own interpretation to make a point.
We can also decide to make productive choices that will help us all navigate our fandom spaces moving forward. Above all else, we can choose to be kind.
If you've read this far, thank you for hearing me out.
As someone who was triggered I’m begging you please, use tags. When I say triggered I don’t mean it made me sad or uncomfortable I mean it caused panic attacks, dissociation or a mental health crisis that required immediate support from my therapist.
I’ve had to leave bluesky entirely because the point blank refusal to use tags over there made using that platform unsafe for me. And I know I’m not the only one. Think about that for a minute. Some of you made what was a safe fandom space unsafe and unusable for part of your community.
I get it, some of you are sensitive about your head canons being criticised but your personal interpretation is not more important than someone else’s safety.
I keep seeing wildly ableist posts saying things like”You’re too mentally ill to be in fandom space” or that “You’re the problem so you should leave,” and you know what, no. I have been using online fandom spaces since Doctor Who rebooted in 2005 and I’ve been on Tumblr since 2007 and this has never been a problem. Why? Because people cared about supporting vulnerable people in their community. This community used to care about supporting vulnerable people.
On the matter of tags: an earnest attempt to communicate
As a random member of the Good Omens fandom community, I’d just like to toss my hat into the ring and attempt to clear up some misunderstandings. I also want to encourage some honest, good-faith dialogue in a severely fractured fandom.
This is not an attempt to convince anyone to interpret the finale a specific way. This is a practical conversation about how we discuss the finale in fan spaces.
For the purposes of this discussion, I will be focusing on tags as they are used on social media platforms like Tumblr, Twitter, Bluesky, and Instagram. AO3 tagging is considerable more complex and warrants a whole convo in its own right, so I won't focus on that here.
THIS POST INCLUDES DISCUSSION OF SUICIDE.
So, tags. Tags have become a thorny issue in the Good Omens fandom. I suspect this issue is so pertinent now, two months after the finale aired, because most of us have dropped “GO3 spoilers” tags, which people would have been filtering out if they did not wish to see anything from the finale. The finale is no longer a fresh commodity, so we are all trying to determine for ourselves what the next phase of our engagement with fandom will look like.
In fandom spaces, tags are a courtesy. No one can force anyone to use tags, of course. But tagging is a long-running standard of fandom etiquette across multiple online platforms. Tags are tools that help us find or filter out specific content. But what happens when we disagree on what tags should even be used in the first place? When tags themselves are a battleground?
I have seen assumptions that finale dislikers are demanding that all content with Asa Fell and Professor Anthony Crowley be tagged with “suicide.” It's possible that I’ve missed some significant conversations, but as someone on the disliker side, I have not seen anyone demand that Asanthony shippers use a "suicide" tag on all their posts featuring Asanthony. If anyone has asked that, I agree that it would be unreasonable! But I strongly suspect this perception comes from a game of fandom telephone in which different conversations are being conflated.
What IS being asked:
All content featuring Asa and Anthony should be tagged with their names or their ship name, Asanthony.
The "ineffable husbands" ship name should not be used for Asanthony.
Content warnings are strongly encouraged when sharing visuals of the scene where God grants Crowley and Aziraphale’s request to be removed from existence, specifically the moments as they disintegrate, as this decision is interpreted by many fans as a suicide.
Let’s address that first point now.
Tagging Asanthony as "Asanthony" makes sense. I think most people are already doing this. If you’re not doing this, well… I strongly advise you to reconsider. Tags aren’t just for those filtering out content, but for those seeking it. Someone who doesn’t want to see Asanthony can use this tool to avoid them, and someone who is specifically seeking out Asanthony content can use the tag to find them and share some appreciation.
Where we have some disagreement is the second point listed above: whether Asanthony deserve to be tagged with the general “ineffable husbands” ship name as well. I don’t think we’re ever going to agree on this one. Some people do see them as the same ship, and others do not. Personally I’m someone who does not see Asanthony as "ineffable," but I am okay to concede on someone using the general ship tag for them, as it really does boil down to one's own interpretation. In my view, so long as "Asanthony" is also used, tag them as you see fit.
Now for the third point. This is where I'll be talking about suicide.
Suicide is obviously an incredibly sensitive and distressing subject, one that is highly likely to carry a personal resonance for many fans on all sides of the GO3 debate. I understand why people are upset to have to bring this subject up in their tags when they do not see the final scene that way.
But if you do find it upsetting to even consider using that tag... that means you agree that this topic is distressing, yes? The ineffables' decision was genuinely genuinely distressing for people who interpreted their choice as a suicide. I am pleading with you to understand this: there are members of our community who struggle with suicide ideation, and that scene genuinely triggered some of these people.
You don’t like to see this tag imposed. Well, others don’t like to suddenly come across visuals that in their view shows a suicide. Not seeing Crowley and Aziraphale's decision as a suicide is just as much an interpretation as seeing it as a suicide is.
We will never agree on our interpretations of Crowley and Aziraphale's final request to God and how it played out. The fact remains that the scene where they make this choice and it is granted is triggering to a significant portion of the fandom. This is not a niche opinion.
We won't be able to reconcile our views on this. But we do have to share fandom spaces together. Blocking others who have a different approach to discussing this scene is always an option. But maybe we can also attempt to reach a middle ground in the form of a tag.
I have chatted with others about this, and an idea I have seen discussed is for the fandom to come up with a neutral term for the scene where God grants Crowley and Aziraphale's request, akin to how we settled on “the Final Fifteen” for the last fifteen minutes of season 2. This term should not favour one interpretation over another.
Some suggestions:
The Final Half Hour (or… the Final Twenty? How long is this scene? Anyone clocked it?)
The Decision
We’ve Come to a Decision (WCTOAD? Well, I do like toads)
Please chime in if you have other suggestions!
Like I said at the top, no one can force anyone to use tags. This is ultimately down to one's own discretion.
But I think it's fair to say that our fandom is currently in crisis. The community has fractured — or perhaps it is simply going through some very nasty growing pains. Maybe we can grow with it.
We will never be in a place where we all agree on GO3’s choices. Right now, we are all figuring out how we want to navigate this story and fandom we have all come to love. However we feel about the finale, we are all trying to find new ways forward.
We can argue about who’s right. We can block as we see fit. We can tag or not tag according to our own interpretation to make a point.
We can also decide to make productive choices that will help us all navigate our fandom spaces moving forward. Above all else, we can choose to be kind.
If you've read this far, thank you for hearing me out.
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You know what? For me, watching s3 is like reading only the tags instead of reading the fic.
S3 is just packed full of common fandom topics, (crowley is a mess, aziraphale moans while eating, Muriel and Eric...) or repetitions of former themes warmed over (yellow bentley, eating ice cream, crowley disguised in heaven, card tricks...)
Lots of unconnected, unhinged scenes thrown together, but the plot, the arc, the heart of the story is unfortunately completely missing, nothing is really fleshed out.
While watching s3 (the first and definitely only time) I was constantly wondering where this was leading an when the actual PLOT would finally begin (spoiler: it didn't.).
The Well Paid Author of this masterpiece always stated that he never reads fanfiction well, he better had, it might have improved his writing skills, but he obviously studied the tags quite thoroughly...
But hey, we should'nt judge too harshly, selling a bunch of random ao3 tags as a 90 minute film to Amazon is quite an achievement in itself, isn't it?
We deserved a good, angst-free kiss and our fellow fans have already provided a plethora of them (see 9 such below, in no particular order). Please reblog with others you know of and make sure to link/credit the artists!
1.
💬 8 🔁 437 ❤️ 1187 · Credit to the incredible twitter.com/grahamsdixon, check out the original post and show him/them your love.
Shared wi
2.
💬 39 🔁 611 ❤️ 2595 · mlem
3.
💬 41 🔁 3058 ❤️ 8831 · I do not know if I like better normal way I intended to do or If I like better the rewind version so here b o t h
4.
💬 8 🔁 950 ❤️ 4486 · 😇💘👿
5.
💬 13 🔁 378 ❤️ 1172 · Whattaya mean, that’s not how the scene went??!!??!? · This is............ very messy/scribbly/whatever. Honestly I f
6.
💬 7 🔁 71 ❤️ 234 · Took me way too long for this but it's finally done.
They deserve all the kissing!
7.
💬 38 🔁 2409 ❤️ 9128 · gingerlizzard on twitter made a gorgeous kissing gif and I wanted to try my hand at animating a kiss too
8.
💬 0 🔁 134 ❤️ 390 · 🚨NEW ARTWORK🚨: REUNION KISS
Finally reunited, Aziraphale confess his feelings and Crowley is overwhelmed with emotio
9.
💬 29 🔁 321 ❤️ 911 · Yeah I made another scribble animation of these idiots kissing
It took a week and I regret nothing
Bonus mention to the EVERY frame matters project, which is the same angsty canon kiss but with awesome artwork:
💬 68 🔁 2666 ❤️ 6942 · EVERY Frame Matters · 300 Artists, 300 Frames and a shared love for Good Omens and it's characters. We came together
