For what I cannot post

I am begging you, unless it's really really working for you, don't turn to Alcoholics Anonymous or Narcotics Anonymous as a solution. I'll give you a better solution after I explain why AA is terrible for the majority of people who use it.

-AA has never changed its guidelines since conception. They do not update anything from doing research or from their negative results

-Speaking of research, there was no research contributed to the creation of AA. some dude just thought "this seems right for good christian men" and made up a bunch of stuff around dogma

-AA tends to rely on faith, shame, and high control. It is bad enough that there have been real dangerous cults formed under the guise of AA

-There is 0 regulation on who can host AA groups. Pretty much anyone is allowed to host AA.

-They tend to be abstinence based, meaning things like dangerous cold turkey cutting of use, and avoidance of all substances which can include medication for some higher control groups. People are heavily shamed for relapses because of their insistence on pure abstinence which is not viable for a lot of users.

-There is a 70% failure rate at best, only 5%-30% of people who attend AA successfully maintain sobriety long term

I will admit, AA isn't for everyone, but there is a reason it has stuck around for almost 100 years. A majority of this post implies that it hasn't changed in the past 100 years however and that is not true.

If you don't believe me, I have technically been in AA and an honorary member since I was 30 and I am only 29. My parents met in AA, my mother learned she was pregnant at a meeting, my mother found her OBGYN at a meeting and her water broke at an AA meeting and her sponsee drove her to the ER. I have seen the program change and evolve as I have grown up, especially in the differences between East Coast and West Coast culture as they are different but each have their merits. (I actually grew up near Akron, Ohio where AA was founded so I have experience with the very traditional ways of AA and the more subdued version that made it's way to sunny California).

"AA has never changed its guidelines since conception. They do not update anything from doing research or from their negative results"

I am trying real hard here not to make assumptions, but if you did even a cursory look at the Big Book, you would find that is not true. The Big Book, which is the guidance for the program, has gone through many iterations and variations over the years. There is an anniversary Big Book where you can read the original text, but it is currently on it's fourth edition and makes notes and changes to update recent approved conference wording and RESEARCH. Here is a link for the anniversary text and the new text with additions needed.

And here is a link for approved conference literature that helps with those updates and expands on those new updates and takes care of groups that were originally looked over at it's founding such as women and the elderly who are trying to get newly sober.

2) "Speaking of research, there was no research contributed to the creation of AA. some dude just thought "this seems right for good christian men" and made up a bunch of stuff around dogma"

.....I am trying very hard to be civil here, because that could not be further from the truth and I think I know . The Oxford Group was a major contributing factor into the formation and one of the founder's, Dr. Bob, was a doctor and had a major impact on the psychiatry aspects of said program.

I think I know where the misunderstanding comes from here, the group is well known for participating in the Serenity Prayer and the Twelve Steps have a lot of references to God, but in the Big Book:

THERE IS LITERALLY A WHOLE CHAPTER DEVOTED TO NON-CHRISTIANS AND HOW THEY CAN APPLY THE STEPS AND THE BIG BOOK TO THEIR LIVES WITHOUT COMPRISING WHAT THEY BELIEVE IN. (It's linked).

Whether they be agnostic, atheist, Jewish or Muslim, they are addressed and it is made clear that the book and PROGRAM is welcome to everyone. (Hell the Al-Anon Friday meeting I go to has a huge number of Jewish people that regularly attend). There is a script that EVERY meeting that says "for all those who WISH to join me in the Serenity Prayer". One of the steps as well is phrased to refer to a higher power "as we understood Him/it". Meaning, it doesn't have to be a God. Hell there is one person I know well that attends and is in program that's like "yeah something is moving forward, I don't know what but I know it ain't God."

The American Addiction Centers.org put it nicely this way: "While AA is rooted in spiritual concepts, participants are welcome to define their own version of a higher power, whether that’s a traditional religious figure, nature, community, or something else entirely."

So yeah if you are basing your whole idea on AA around #2, I think you need to rethink that.

3) "AA tends to rely on faith, shame, and high control. It is bad enough that there have been real dangerous cults formed under the guise of AA"

Ok let's break this down: does AA rely on faith? Ahhhhh, see number 2. Does it rely on shame? No. Does it rely on high control? Also no.

If you have ever attended an AA meeting and meet someone who was a regular or slightly newish but known to the group and relapsed you would find that they are welcomed with nothing but open arms, hugs and asking "how can we help?" Especially if they have a sponsor. If you have a sponsor that is ACTIVELY shaming you, drop that sponsor fucking quick as you can man.

If you are new, they open you with welcome arms. There is literally a role called "greeter" and yes that is their role. Their is no shame in any VALID AA meeting.

Does it rely on high control? Literally no. Like I said, any VALID AA meeting that will appear on ANY resource site (they need approval) does have a leadership system, but it is heavily rotated and heavily monitored so one person nor a group of people have control. We have roles that hold position longer (i.e. secretary, chairperson, treasurer and more) and those that are smaller that see higher turnover (tech, greeter, birthday chair and more) and they get voted in and out every 3 to 4 months depending on the group.

While I have never personally heard of any cults being formed under the guise of AA, I highly urge you to check out the official AA site for LEGITIMATE meetings that have been approved and have these power structures in place. See the next point for more.

4) "There is 0 regulation on who can host AA groups. Pretty much anyone is allowed to host AA."

Again, there is a reason why there is an official AA site. There is regulation and a way to do this.

Most areas are overseen by a general overseer and thats how you see the different areas broken up on various maps. You must alert an official from that group, that overseer has to attend meetings to help regulate it (this role does get voted on as well on a county/regional level).

There's a bit more there they have to do, but they do not get a sign of approval and the go ahead to act in any capability until they have been up and running for three months.

5) "They tend to be abstinence based, meaning things like dangerous cold turkey cutting of use, and avoidance of all substances which can include medication for some higher control groups. People are heavily shamed for relapses because of their insistence on pure abstinence which is not viable for a lot of users."

Yes we are abstinence based. But you again are operating on the OLD guidelines for the book. I know of plenty of people who are quote "California Sober" and still have 30 years under their belt.

I myself am on some HEAVY downers and am still considered sober. My psych keeps talking about just purely switching out my downers for weed and I talked to my sponsor and we agreed I'd still be seen as sober.

Edit: I realized this was unclear, exceptions are made for legitimate medical reasons. My mother passed with 33 years and was still considered sober despite being on drugs in the her cancer treatment that she used to abuse. (But it was also a weird situation.)

And again like I stated again, no one is shamed. If you are worried about being shamed pleased do not be. We just want you to keep coming back.

6) "There is a 70% failure rate at best, only 5%-30% of people who attend AA successfully maintain sobriety long term"

Again this is taking outdated information out of context.

According to American Addiction Centers, success rate is 12% with 75% of members being abstinent. A 2014 study showed:

27%  of the participants were sober for less than a year.

24% were sober 1-5 years.

13% were sober 5-10 years.

14% were sober 10-20 years.

22% were sober for 20 or more years.

The National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism (NIAA) featured results on a long-term study on AA members.:

The one-year and three-year follow-up points indicated that half of the participants who entered AA on their own were abstinent, while only a quarter of those who entered formal treatment were abstinent at the time of the follow-up.

The eight-year follow-up showed that 46% of those who chose formal treatment were abstinent, while 49% of individuals who attended AA were abstinent.

Results revealed that those with alcohol issues who participated in both formal treatment and AA were more likely to be abstinent than those in formal treatment between years one and three, but did not show much difference in abstinence rates after eight years. This group did not show much difference with the AA-only group across the follow-up period in terms of abstinence rates.

The results concluded that for some, AA attendance can be a source of recovery.

However both sources note that success rates may be way higher but are currently unknown due to the ANONYMITY aspect of the program, which can thus skew their numbers a bit compared to traditional rehab programs that can physically track everyone.

7) One additional point that was mentioned: AA does offer online meetings and has done so since the early 2000's. My mother attended the ones on AoL chatrooms faithfully. Here is a link to another chatroom as well. If you do not wish to go to a chat room, you can also go to the official meeting site for AA and attend online Zoom meetings around the world (you do not need to turn on your camera and like traditional AA meetings you are free to pass and not speak during the meeting. You do not need to reside in part of the world to attend. At one of my meetings in California, we have a regular from Britain on Zoom).

And you will not hear me rag on the SMART program. Mostly because I have no reason to. I do not have experience with the program, but I do know that it is often used along with AA. There are benefits to each program, I am sure, but there is no reason to take old data and fear mongering on why you shouldn't take recovery, especially if one program is more accessible than the other.

With that I will leave you with one last thing that we read at the end of every Al-Anon meetings

Someone added questions to their reblog so let me answer here:

Yes both Al-Anon and AA have 12 traditions. The Al-Anon ones are basically the same as AA with minor changes to words.

And yes, one of my meeting is coming up on role switching. There is some controversy because the group conscience is that the Chair Person (one of the biggest roles and has a lot of requirements to be elected to, normally) hands off their seat every three months when most meetings in our area does six months. (This will most likely be brought up in the next business meeting as the other large roles tend to be in their role for 6 months to a year).

At one meeting I do tech set up (we’re hybrid so I set up the tv, computer and mic and make fun of the Chair Person for being too tall and not knowing how to turn on a mic). At another I am fellowship coordinator and choose where we go out to eat after the meeting. And then at my smallest meeting I have the unofficial spot of hospitality as I bring a snack for both the Al-Anon group and the attached Alateen group. There are only five of us who are regulars so we do not have a traditional secretary or Chair Person as we are so small, we just pass along the script and one person reads the script every week. We have new people come into that meeting but we are finding challenges keeping people. I am also an unofficial greeter as the location is hard to find sometimes and most people don’t know where to go.