unsympathetic patton

I don’t forgive Patton.

Sorry not sorry that end card didn’t make me go “awww” as it was intended.

Patton has made too many of the same mistakes for too long. His treatment of Deceit was so…gross that I couldn’t stomach his “sweet” reply. All of his condensation, shunning, and villainizing of him like…no. You did not earn that moment, Patton. I don’t care how guilty he felt. That scene didn’t make up for shit.

Patton’s badgering of Roman to give up something that he knew really mattered to him and acting all cheery as if Roman isn’t visiably miserable beside him. Him not allowing Roman to say a thing to Virgil while letting him bully Roman all he wants.

Patton’s infantilization of Virgil, disrespect of his boundaries, and whining when he won’t allow him to show him love his way.

Patton with Logan…hoooo booooy! This fucking laundry list is just…I can’t-

But I’ll only say this: Him literally pushing Logan (Deceit?) away when he responded in a way he didn’t like. He physically booted him out of the conversation and acted as if everything was chill when Logan came back (like he always does). Just…I wanna strangle him, no joke.

Oh, yeah. He also assaulted Thomas. …..That’s nice.

Ya’ll can forgive him if you want to, I have no issue with that. But personally I can’t. He’s done too many shitty things for me to even be on a neutral ground with him anymore. He isn’t even my least favorite Side. It’s Remus. But maaaaaan is he looking like his potential replacement lately.

Patton, surprise surprise, is deciding to be a dick again. He sees Deceit walk by with one of his “underlings” as he so delicately calls them. Dee tells him to wait right there while he goes to get something off a shelf. Their backs are turned. The other Dark Side is standing near the door that separates the two mind palaces. Patton huffs in irritation at seeing them crawling around his home again. So he quietly marches over to the unsuspecting Dark Side, fully intent on grabbing him by the collar and throwing him out or hitting him until he tries to run. But before he can fully lift his arm, Deceit turns his head all the way around without moving the rest of his body, eyes glowing yellow, snake fangs elongated, and his tempest tongue bleeding into his speech.

“So much as attempt to do that and you won’t live to see the next sunrise.”

The look of horror on his face is priceless.

On a more comedic note, imagine this: 

Virgil just asking Roman a question but subconciously uses his head turn as a force of habit as the prince walks behind him while he’s on the couch.

ive been wanting to do something like this and i finally have an excuse too awawaa,,, also plz dont die and fun fact u should write whatever u want. just have fun with it ^^ writing just takes practice

TW: U!Patton, physical abuse, verbal abuse, implied suicidal thoughts, scars, scalpel, implied/referenced panic attacks, cutting someone, crying, loss of breathe, weapons, slight victim blaming, let me know of other things to tag !

"I'll cut your little heart out 'cause you made me cry"

i do not care what the trigger is

i will tag it for you

you have legitimate reasons to be triggered by it

and i am not one to question those reasons

so just send me an ask

anonymous if you’re scared

and i will tag it all the time in future

i might be on mobile

i might be dumb

i might have forgotten

just send me an ask

anon if you’re scared

i’ll correct it

I will tag it (as much as I can remember) because

THIS IS NOT A DISCOURSE POST AND I WON’T ANSWER DISCOURSE REBLOGGED HERE. THIS WAS MADE FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES. IF YOU’D LIKE TO DISCUSS IT WITH ME YOU CAN MESSAGE ME.

I’ve gotten people asking me how Patton has shown toxic behavior in the series so I decided to rewatch the series and collect receipts. Enjoy.

Because this whole discourse started after SvS, that’s the episode I’ll be starting with (coupled with DWIT). However, after that, they will be in chronological order.

These behaviors have repeating evidence, so I just grouped the evidence together under (or rather, above) the topic to save a little space. Each new point (or receipt, I suppose) will be preceded by  ⭐)

Selfishness VS Selflessness & Dealing With Intrusive Thoughts

⭐ (SVS; 2:11) T: “The callback date is inflexible.” P: *sigh* “Same as the wedding date.” T (unenthusiastically): “Yeah.” P: “And Lee and Mary Lee really want you to be there.” T (unenthusiastically): “Yeah.” P: “And they’ve always been there for you when you needed them.” T(unenthusiastically): “Yeah.” P: *sigh* “And you were really excited to go, too.” T (hesitantly): “Yeah.”

This kind of dialogue is very common in abusive and manipulative relationships. Am I saying Patton is abusive? No. Toxic behavior and abusive behavior are two different things; abusiveness has intent, toxicity has ignorance.

Anyways, during this exchange, Thomas isn’t even trying to argue with Patton about going to the callback yet, and neither is Roman. All they did was tell Patton the date, and what is his go-to reaction? Guilt-tripping. 

Guilt-tripping is a tactic used by many abusers to goad the abused into agreeing with them and/or doing what they want. It uses a specific manner of speaking, nitpicking at the things that are important to the abused (read: Thomas’ friendships) and playing to their weaknesses (read: not wanting to be seen as a bad friend. This point is further explored later in the post for another video). He’s actively, albeit subconsciously, guilting Thomas into agreeing with him to go to the wedding without question.

⭐ (SVS; 7:22) P: “And Roman, I thought you fought for honor! Why are you pushing Thomas to be dishonest?”

Here, Patton attacks Roman’s very character while guilt-tripping him. I’ll save post space by sparing the lengthy analysis of a behavior I’ve already discussed, but if you need me to go farther than this please message me and I’ll be happy to discuss.

Toxic Behavior: guilt-tripping (2)

⭐ (SvS) Patton is also telling Thomas how he feels (”And you were really excited to go, too.”), something Deceit Logan points out not even five seconds later. This is another tactic used by abusers. Caught unawares of the potential manipulation, it can make the abused feel like the abuser understand and sympathizes with them, fostering trust in the beginning of a toxic relationship. However, in the way Patton is using it, it is used to strip the abused of their autonomy, essentially saying “this is how you feel. I know it, and if you disagree with me you’re lying to yourself and being disobedient”. Now again, is this how Patton means it specifically? Absolutely not, he isn’t an abuser. But it’s a form of manipulation that can’t go ignored. 

Toxic Behavior: emotional manipulation (1)

⭐ (SvS; 5:37) D: “Wrong?” T (unenthusiatically) & P: “Yeah.” P: “Deceit, standing in the spot of one of my four best friends.”

This is another common tactic of manipulation: discrediting. With a simple comment, Patton is attempting to get the other three in the room to instantaneously ignore/disbelieve anything that comes out of Deceit’s (his direct opposition) mouth just after Thomas has decided to tentatively trust him. He goes on to say, “Because Thomas gave his word, but you wouldn’t know anything about that, would you, mister?” This is just another example of the same; Patton is further trying to wedge distrust between Deceit and the others before Deceit can continue to make a valid argument.

⭐ (SvS; 8:24) P: “Basically Deceit is trying to prove that you care more about yourself than  your friends. But don’t worry kiddo, we’ll show him.”

This line is from the moment when they enter the courtroom. As anyone who has watched the video can tell you, that isn’t what Deceit was trying to prove at all. He was just trying to show the main sides and Thomas that he isn’t completely innocent like they love to pretend he is.

Toxic Behavior: discrediting/invalidating (2)

⭐ (SvS; 6:43) P: “Lying is bad enough! Lying to a friend is out of the question!”

Patton is speaking as an absolute authority here. His tone and words broker no discussion at all, not even from the side who literally represents lying, who (in my personal opinion) should be allowed to decide when lying is appropriate. A point I raise in a previous video (seen below the Read More) is that Patton is part of a whole, he should never be able to hold all of the power or claim the right to speak unopposed. Throughout the video he shows controlling tendencies such as these, unwilling to hear (or at least entertain) the opposing argument. 

⭐ (DWIT; 4:40) P: “I’m sorry, but I can’t condone any more of that kind of thinking!”

While Patton may be morality, DWIT clearly showed that he isn’t the best authority on judging the validity of a thought. Granted, as Logan explained, Patton’s views are more than likely influenced by Thomas’ upbringing. Explanations are not excuses however, and this is still toxic behavior.

⭐ (DWIT;  32:46) P: “It’s okay if you sometimes think some icky thoughts, Thomas. You have my permission.”

This one is… Strange and complicated. Firstly, because Patton starts off saying “this may not be necessary”, so he’s aware that he shouldn’t have the control he does. But, on the other hand, he still feels like he needs to say it, and it can be argued that that is because of himself and/or Thomas. So… This one is hard, but I still hold that it shouldn’t have had to be said. Thomas shouldn’t rely so heavily on Patton’s approval.

Toxic Behavior: controlling tendencies (3)

⭐ (SvS; 7:13) P: “What is this wacky talk? You don’t mean this. I’m your morality, I wouldn’t be here if you did.” (anyone remember what a character lie sounds like?)

I’ve seen this video at least 4 times now, but this line always makes me take a shocked step back. The severity of Patton’s reaction completely comes out of left field here. He hears Thomas trying to rationalize the opposing idea, and instead of trying to talk it out as he did in the past, he literally cuts off the conversation and tells Thomas how he thinks/feels. This is a classic abuser tactic, as stated above when I talked about the “excited” line, wherein the abuser strips the abused of autonomy.

Toxic Behavior: invalidation/stripping one of their autonomy (1)

⭐ (SvS; 29:52) D: “…Acting in your own self interest.” P: “That’s wrong!”

This isn’t necessarily a “toxic behavior” in the terms that I’m outlining here in this post, but it is one that the fandom has been talking about since the video dropped: Patton’s black-and-white views leading to Thomas neglecting himself over his friends. Patton said in The Mind VS. The Heart, [in response to Thomas saying he needs to make time for himself] “Oh, of course! I never wanted you to feel like you couldn’t!“, and Thomas later says in Growing Up, ”I can’t go moment to moment doing whatever you want me to do”. These are fairly early videos in the series, and yet it seems that the lessons brought up in said videos were forgotten very quickly (especially since this will, hopefully, be the third time it’s being addressed…). Patton has grown in many ways, but this seems to be the one lesson that won’t stick. In fact, if SvS showed us anything, it’s that Patton’s gotten worse. 

Toxic Behavior: self (or Base((since we aren’t saying host anymore))) neglect (1)

⭐ (DWIT; 18:11) P: “Is Thomas a bad person?”

This quote, coupled with a Toxic Behavior I address in a previous episode down below, actually shows a dangerous polarization of thought towards people called Idealization and Devaluation. Simply put, with this line of thinking, one views people as either perfect, sometimes near godly, or corrupt, dirty, rotten, not-worth-my-time, and there is no in between. With Patton’s reoccurring question of “Is Thomas a bad person?” he shows evidence that this is the case; despite what he may say, he has only ever described Thomas and the other sides as a good/perfect person, or a Bad Person. It’s a toxic mindset that can ruin relationships.

Toxic Behavior: devaluation (and idealization) (1)

So how did we get to this point? Click the read more to find out!

Until one day, Virgil’s out with his new friend (crush)   and he stops in the middle of their walk together. When he asks why he was stopping, Virgil with the most strangled voice said, “I-…..I-I can’t move…”

Virgil ends up being carried home by his friend, having him call the others and dealing with their panicked voices over the phone, he’s immediately brought to his room on sight. They’re all there, including Deceit and Remus. (They aren’t “allowed” on family walks. Guess who’s idea that was.) They’re all comforting him and trying to get him to stop sobbing. But he can’t. He’s in so much pain. Everyone just wants him to be alright. Then Patton speaks up.

With the sweetest, adoring voice, the moral side strokes his hair and utters with a smile,  “See what happens when you don’t allow yourself to open up, Virgil? Consider this punishment for faking a problem to get out of family time.”

Because I’m pretty sure Logan does. Quite a lot, actually. In Growing Up, if I’m remembering correctly, he sure did. He and Patton happily compromised in MvH. In POF, when he accidentally hit Patton with the textbox, he immediately apologised. And of course, we all remember the gift of the cat hoodie that Logan used to apologise and make it up to Patton in Moving On.

And, actually since Moving On, I think he’s actually been very nice to Patton (even if Patton isn’t always the nicest back. In fact, he’s been quite a bit of a dick to him, especially in POF). Even when Patton was at fault in DWIT, Logan was considerate as he talked through what Patton could do better. I find it harsh to call out all the sides for not apologising to Patton for things when Logan has nothing to apologise for (and I guess neither does Roman since Roman never really says bad stuff about Patton, not even during his breakdown at the end of POF. In fact, the black and white morality that Patton pushed for so long is what caused Roman to have this reaction to Janus’ acceptance, so...)

I feel, sometimes, some people in this fandom can paint canon Logan as a bit more of an asshole than he actually is. Just because he can be rather blunt and puts logic before emotions doesn’t mean he’s heartless. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: he seems to apologise the most out of the sides. And even though he doesn’t like being wrong, when he is and realises it, he apologises, and makes an effort to do better without needing to be told twice.

I mean, just look at LNTAO. He learns that ‘unconventional’ means of learning are just as useful and effective as conventional ones. A lesson he clearly holds on to, since he utilises the unconventional video game theme in POF.

Logan cares about his family and wants them to be happy. As of now, he’s probably the side on best terms with all of the others (well, he would be if they weren’t all mean to him for no reason). He’s not perfect of course, none of the sides are, but I don’t think not apologising is one of his flaws.

Roman tearfully after the new ep: I-I might duck out… W-What’s the point staying around when you’re not wanted…

Virgil: Gee, Princey, I knew you were unoriginal but I didn’t think you were a copycat.

Roman:…

Roman laughing bitterly: Y-You’re right Virge!

Roman: I’m becoming a dark side instead!

Virgil: Wh-

Virgil will state that he feels uncomfortable with something (such as the others changing his appearance) but then will turn around and do that same things to the others without asking first

oH WAIT