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moonsandloons

Black people who have any form of hair at all deserve 1 million dollars.

blackfemmecharacterdependency

tiredopinions

It’s incredible that people are so invested in tamping down criticism of this season, particularly from Louis fans, that they will lie about basic things like claiming that all the writers have remained the same from season 1 to season 3.

Since apparently we are the only fans left with the ability to verify any type of information, here are the facts:

S1 Credits:

1x01 - Rolin Jones

1x02 - Jonathan Ceniceroz & Dave Harris

1x03 - Rolin Jones & Hannah Moscovitch

1x04 - Eleanor Burgess

1x05 - Hannah Moscovitch

1x06 - Coline Abert

1x07 - Rolin Jones & Ben Philippe

S2 Credits:

2x01: Hannah Moscovitch

2x02: Jonathan Ceniceroz & Shane Munson

2x03: Heather Bellson

2x04: Coline Abert & A. Zell Williams

2x05: Jonathan Ceniceroz & Hannah Moscovitch

2x06: Hannah Moscovitch & Shane Munson

2x07: Kevin Hanna & Rolin Jones

2x08: Rolin Jones

Hannah, Rolin, Coline, and Jonathan were retained from S1 - 2. Eleanor, Ben, and Dave did not return. The first season had 7 writers. The second had 8.

3x01: Rolin Jones & Hannah Moscovitch

3x02: Jonathan Ceniceroz & Kevin Hanna

3x03: Anusree Roy

3x04: Jonathan Ceniceroz

3x05: Hannah Moscovitch & Daniel Hart

3x06: Ryan Kattner & Kevin Hanna

3x07: Hannah Moscovitch

Hannah, Rolin, Kevin, and Jonathan returned for season 3. Heather, Coline, A. Zell, and Shane did not. This season has 7 writers. Of these 7, the only 3 that remain of the season 1 writers room are Rolin, Hannah, and Jonathan.

You can definitely say the writers who have been retained from season 1 to season 3 are the strongest writers if you want to. I absolutely think that Jonathan and Hannah are two of the strongest writers. I can’t say Rolin is my favorite. But they definitely lost a lot of wonderful writers season to season and I think that is very much felt.

This isn’t even putting into perspective the reality of a writer’s room and what each person might bring to the table regardless of whether or not they get an actual writing credit for it.

tiredopinions

Guys, I thought I was making a joke earlier when I said it should be illegal for more than 2 white straight men to be in a writer’s room but honestly I think that there was only 1 (Rolin) in the season 1 writer’s room and 2 (Rolin and Kevin) in the S2 writer’s room. Now there are 3 🤣

tiredopinions

I think it should be noted that Shane and Coline are both women. Coline Abert is noted on IMDb as a bilingual French-English screenwriter. So if you note a difference in quality of the French writing this season, maybe that is a contributor to it. I wouldn’t know.

As I said in the comments - Ben Philippe, Dave Harris, and A. Zell Williams were the Black writers who wrote for S1-2. @coldeveryseason shouted them out on Twitter.

kutputli

I've seen some weird defences of the IWTV writers room couching in 'erasing the contributions of the non-white writers' type arguments and I just want to use this helpful breakdown of the writers to take it a bit further.

I also want to start off referencing a quote that screenwriter-director Nida Manzoor made where she talked about being in white-dominated writers rooms where she felt she was there to just sign-off on what they were writing. And what a difference it was when she was able to set up her own writers room, especially in season 2 of We Are Lady Parts, where every writer was a Muslim woman.

If you're not familiar with how writers rooms work, you might think every episode is created by the person credited with the script. (Flashback to the Buffy fandom where Marti Nixon was blamed for every single thing in the Joss Whedon is God days.) But the whole point of a writers room is that everyone breaks the episode beats together, and it is headed by the showrunners.

Now let's look at the racial breakdown of that IWTV writers room again

1x01 - Rolin Jones (white)

1x02 - Jonathan Ceniceroz & Dave Harris (Latino and Black)

1x03 - Rolin Jones & Hannah Moscovitch (white and white)

1x04 - Eleanor Burgess (white)

1x05 - Hannah Moscovitch (white)

1x06 - Coline Abert (white)

1x07 - Rolin Jones & Ben Philippe (white and Black)

2x01: Hannah Moscovitch (white)

2x02: Jonathan Ceniceroz & Shane Munson (Latino and white)

2x03: Heather Bellson (white)

2x04: Coline Abert & A. Zell Williams (white and Black)

2x05: Jonathan Ceniceroz & Hannah Moscovitch (Latino and white)

2x06: Hannah Moscovitch & Shane Munson (white and white)

2x07: Kevin Hanna & Rolin Jones (white and white)

2x08: Rolin Jones (white)

3x01: Rolin Jones & Hannah Moscovitch (white and white)

3x02: Jonathan Ceniceroz & Kevin Hanna (Latino and white)

3x03: Anusree Roy (Indian-Canadian)

3x04: Jonathan Ceniceroz (Latino)

3x05: Hannah Moscovitch & Daniel Hart (white and white)

3x06: Ryan Kattner & Kevin Hanna (Wasian and white)

3x07: Hannah Moscovitch (white)

So - not a single Black writer has been given solo credit on any episode. None of them have ever made it beyond one season into a writers room. Of the non-Black writers of colour, Jonathan Ceniceroz is the only one who has written for all 3 seasons, and he only got solo credit for one episode this season. Anusree Roy being the only other non-white writer to get a solo credit. Ryan Kattner probably contributed most to song lyrics, since he's a musician who is also acting in the show.

The show runners and producers are all white.

This is a white-dominated writers room, and this is a show where white writers set the tone of how race and racism will be addressed in the scripts. And if you have followed some of the things Hannah and Rolin have said in interviews, you should know that neither is to be trusted when it comes to racial awareness.

crazykuroneko

These are such great information.

Just want to add: even though A. Zell Williams wasn't credited in Season 1, he was part of the mini room (a smaller writers' room format so the network can have a draft of a first season without spending that much money prior the series being greenlit. This practice was erased after the WGA strike in 2023) for that season. He said this on his podcast. He was then promoted for S2.

Ben was also story editor for S1

#media antiblackness

stoptheantisemitism

Did you see the BDS movement have updated their boycott list? XBox, Reebok, Teva and Disney have moved to priority targets, and they’re supporting the organic boycott of Zara. Dominos is back on the list too (did it ever really leave though)

Yes I did!

Here is the updated list for anyone who wants to stay in the loop

fastorslow

Paris by EazyVisuals

#misc photography #jesus fucking christ #q

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lorillee

big tshirt that says YOUR INTERPRETATIONS MUST HAVE A STRONG BASIS IN THE SOURCE MATERIAL on the front and I HATE FUN on the back

i've seen a lot of people defend the increase in uncritical antiblackness and racist scripts in tvl/s3 by saying "well lestat and daniel are racist white men, ofc they make racist comments" and it's like, well yeah that's true but they shouldn't be making racist comments with the exact same voice and with seemingly the exact same pov. lestat is a french aristocrat from the late 18th century who grew up in a rural backwater and then moved to paris at the height of the french revolution, during the enlightenment when many modern ideas of "whiteness" were being defined, lived in new orleans during the jim crow regime in the early 20th century and then was significantly isolated from human society until 2022- daniel is an american man (possibly of jewish or armenian heritage since he's played by luke and eric) who grew up middle class in modesto california (a small city that had a significant population increase during the post-wwii baby boom) in the late 20th century and spent most of his adulthood in liberal urban centers around the states. there's little to no overlap in their lived experiences- lestat was in his shack era for the vast majority of daniel's lifetime. they come from radically different cultural contexts and even though they would both have racist views that fit the norms of white supremacist society, they wouldn't have the same racist views or express their racism in the same way.

but the show has both of them speaking in the same irreverent, quippy voice and cycling through the same types of jokes in a way that makes it clear this is what the writers think is funny, that this is a reflection of the writers' (esp rolin's) racism. rolin said the audience was gonna feel the whiplash of the show suddenly being taken over by lestat and feeling like we're in lestat's head, but the tone shift fails bc it specifically doesn't feel like we're in lestat's head or that the kind of narration and dialogue we're immersed in reflects lestat's character in any meaningful way- instead, it feels like rolin has taken the fact that the show is now set mostly in the present day and the general premise of "lestat is chaotic and terminally online" as a free pass to use lestat as a mouthpiece for his own voice and sense of humor. lestat isn't just any random mid-30s rockstar edgelord on tour, he's a specific character with a specific background, and while it's believable that he became terminally online and obsessed with pop culture in the 3 years since he reunited with louis in s2ep8, that doesn't mean all traces of his past and the history that shaped him is gonna vanish from the way he speaks, narrates and views other people.

for a season that's meant to be all about digging into lestat's character and everything that made him who and what he is, the writers seem to have completely disregarded that when shaping lestat's voice this season- and why "oh well aren't they supposed to be racist white guys anyway" isn't an excuse for the racism we're seeing in the scripts. (and honestly even daniel's voice, even though his context is a lot closer to the context the show's writers would have, doesn't always land right- a man who spent most of the 70s/80s in gay bars wouldn't be calling a 6 ft tall beefcake a "twink" and his septuagenarian ass wouldn't have adopted the 2020s derogatory use of the term where people use "twink" as a substitute for "fag" either. he'd just say fag.) if the writers had done more research and had lestat doing archaic 18th-century racism pulls while contrasting that with his misuse of 2020s slang he doesn't fully understand, if daniel was actually speaking like a white guy who survived the aids crisis and cut his teeth as a journalist in late 20th century good-ol-boy newsrooms, i could give the show more grace and say there was some intentionality behind their dialogue- but everything so far just points to the writers themselves thinking "so armand is an abused sub bottom, that's his defining trait" and shoving dialogue about that into every other character's mouth without thinking if that specific person would actually say or think that. there's no reason a 265 yo french former rural aristocrat, a 72-yo usamerican journalist, and a 20-something french-canadian bookseller should be making the same kind of "armand is a beta bottom lawl" comment- but they are doing that in the show, bc the writers think it's funny and expect the audience to laugh along with them.

#sorry this is really rambly but like. let's be real about what's going on here and one of several things that make tvl/s3's writing weaker #ash talks iwtvl #and the racist dialogue gets worse oh boy does it get worse

hinasho

You know the iwtv subreddit is garbage when people are defending Daniel’s fried chicken line by saying he was just insecure and that fiction isn’t real anyways and have you considered that Louis did look like fried meat and yes okay it was racist but why does Daniel’s racism need to be addressed lol who cares and the second people start chiming in with “well it was still weird overall” the moderators remove the post entirely right right okay gotcha

hinasho

For context the original post hadn’t even connected that the line was about Louis. They said they saw there was controversy about the line and started explaining Anne’s connection with Popeyes. Top comment had to explain it was about Louis and things snow balled from there.

Just posting so yall don’t think I’m fighting air. There’s a lot of other comments, but the convo went so left with people bringing GabiStat into it and etc.

coldeveryseason

the iwtvl subreddit is also known for removing the posts of (or sometimes straight-up banning) black fans who critically talk about antiblackness either in the show itself or among the fandom/viewers for being "uncivil" (even if they were perfectly neutral in tone or politely put- the dogwhistle of talking about racism being "uncivil" but racism itself not) so it's important to note that it's the kind of environment that's been formed over years by antiblack mods to repress conversations that deal with race in ways that make them "uncomfortable". even if someone is being microaggressive or macroaggressive, even if they say deeply racist things, the subreddit mods won't ban them as long as it's "polite" racism and has some tonal plausible deniability, but i've spoken to other black folks who've been banned just for talking about how the characters express antiblack sentiments in-universe. and it says a lot that the subreddit seems to be one of the main reference points rolin used to see how fans were responding and talking about the show, bc it's a space that deliberately silences and sidelines black voices if we don't self-censor and avoid talking about race in ways that the white or white-centric majority don't want us to.

#fandom antiblackness

cyberglittter

photography by sarah devoti raleigh

#misc fashion #q

nahalism

Chinaza Agbor, Why Are They Looking At Me, 2022

#misc art #q

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submersero

#insane #iwtv fanart #q

blksouthernfemme

Lebohang Kganye’s Ke Lefa Laka: Her-Story, a series of digital photomontages where she has inserted herself into old photographs of her mother who has passed

#misc photography #q

i feel like it was cowardly (and indicative of the thematic problems with this season and how racist the writing is) for the show not to adapt gabrielle's canonical antiblackness and portray her as having more generic captain-planet-villain megalomania instead. but i'm choosing to engage with that aspect of her character anyway so...

...y'all think the "brute" louis sensed in madagascar was gabriella

#ash talks iwtvl

kubo

im not kidding if you put that "you're still louis the pimp" gifset on my dash i'm blocking you

#everyone reblogging some variation of a “louis the forever pimp” take should consider why they see the sole surviving black lead #an “eternal pimp” as if that's part of his essence- an inherent immutable quality he has #when the same people who see louis that way clearly don't consider lestat an eternal john/sex tourist/pimp (wrt visiting brothels in nola #what he did to miss lily and being the angel investor for the azalea) “i emptied a bank vault sampling i must say- white black cinnamon”#and it's so clearly antiblack when louis gets singled out as if exploiting working class black women is something only he does on this show #fandom antiblackness

mysticetes

doechii and megan could literally kill a man in broad daylight and i'd be on here defending them

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