ed and baby nipper for @meanmisscharlesâ ! i am so in love with her mpreg fic, it has so much heart, gentlebeard being in love, the much needed frenchie ed friendship and the ensemble cast being all around silly. its so much fun, thank you so much for sharing it with us đÂ
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s1: racist policies enacted in storyville â louis hangs up a 'coloreds only' sign and guts the alderman
s2: nicki calls armand the g-slur â armand separates the two of them and flings lestat into the wall. coven lynches claudia and nearly kills louis â he comes back sets the whole place on fire and relieves santiago of his head
s3: LFC, ragdoll, fuck cloud, drug mule, gucci grace jones, etc. â crickets (except for dr. fareed coming in when lestat read out mommy dearest's text and did all of that re: the proper indigenous name). we don't even have well written racism anymore
WE DON'T EVEN HAVE WELL WRITTEN RACISM ANYMORE. scream
making your only predominant Indian character the one you exclusively associate with racist and fascistic imagery (and not, say the white guy) sure is a choice.
i think every character here deserves complexity and imperfection. armand has done horrible things. and i do stand that louis' isolated arc with claudia/regina is amazing this season. but, outside of that, most of this season is me going "this sure is a choice."
armand killed claudia, lestat's daughter and his own victim. why are we instead spending an hour on a white man subjecting a south asian man to weird racialized humiliation rituals? why are we repurposing claudia's trauma for lestat's arc? why is lestat repeatedly mocking louis, the character this show and marketing insists is supposed to be the love of his immortal life? "louisiana fried chicken?" christine calling dee a "cocaine whorebucket." gabrielle's a joke. i don't think every character or choice needs to be spelled out for the least attentive viewer. trust your audience.however, my question is on what exactly they've chosen to emphasize. it gets to a point.
even if episode 7 turns around and says 'surprise you weren't supposed to trust lestat's version implicitly :)!" i don't think that should be the move. if getting to your point requires weeks of viewers sitting through uncomfortable racist jokes and humiliation with little textual push back, that's a weird choice.
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i wanna louis be more selfish though. like, he shouldn't even admit that he's selfish. i wish he paid to the guy to shoot at lestat actually. that's what i'd do after one (1) time he opened his mouth to call me delusional considering everything he's done. i'd call lestat to say how much i don't care about him getting shot. i'd actually send more people to shoot at him so he doesn't get too comfortable.
i've seen a lot of people defend the increase in uncritical antiblackness and racist scripts in tvl/s3 by saying "well lestat and daniel are racist white men, ofc they make racist comments" and it's like, well yeah that's true but they shouldn't be making racist comments with the exact same voice and with seemingly the exact same pov. lestat is a french aristocrat from the late 18th century who grew up in a rural backwater and then moved to paris at the height of the french revolution, during the enlightenment when many modern ideas of "whiteness" were being defined, lived in new orleans during the jim crow regime in the early 20th century and then was significantly isolated from human society until 2022- daniel is an american man (possibly of jewish or armenian heritage since he's played by luke and eric) who grew up middle class in modesto california (a small city that had a significant population increase during the post-wwii baby boom) in the late 20th century and spent most of his adulthood in liberal urban centers around the states. there's little to no overlap in their lived experiences- lestat was in his shack era for the vast majority of daniel's lifetime. they come from radically different cultural contexts and even though they would both have racist views that fit the norms of white supremacist society, they wouldn't have the same racist views or express their racism in the same way.
but the show has both of them speaking in the same irreverent, quippy voice and cycling through the same types of jokes in a way that makes it clear this is what the writers think is funny, that this is a reflection of the writers' (esp rolin's) racism. rolin said the audience was gonna feel the whiplash of the show suddenly being taken over by lestat and feeling like we're in lestat's head, but the tone shift fails bc it specifically doesn't feel like we're in lestat's head or that the kind of narration and dialogue we're immersed in reflects lestat's character in any meaningful way- instead, it feels like rolin has taken the fact that the show is now set mostly in the present day and the general premise of "lestat is chaotic and terminally online" as a free pass to use lestat as a mouthpiece for his own voice and sense of humor. lestat isn't just any random mid-30s rockstar edgelord on tour, he's a specific character with a specific background, and while it's believable that he became terminally online and obsessed with pop culture in the 3 years since he reunited with louis in s2ep8, that doesn't mean all traces of his past and the history that shaped him is gonna vanish from the way he speaks, narrates and views other people.
for a season that's meant to be all about digging into lestat's character and everything that made him who and what he is, the writers seem to have completely disregarded that when shaping lestat's voice this season- and why "oh well aren't they supposed to be racist white guys anyway" isn't an excuse for the racism we're seeing in the scripts. (and honestly even daniel's voice, even though his context is a lot closer to the context the show's writers would have, doesn't always land right- a man who spent most of the 70s/80s in gay bars wouldn't be calling a 6 ft tall beefcake a "twink" and his septuagenarian ass wouldn't have adopted the 2020s derogatory use of the term where people use "twink" as a substitute for "fag" either. he'd just say fag.) if the writers had done more research and had lestat doing archaic 18th-century racism pulls while contrasting that with his misuse of 2020s slang he doesn't fully understand, if daniel was actually speaking like a white guy who survived the aids crisis and cut his teeth as a journalist in late 20th century good-ol-boy newsrooms, i could give the show more grace and say there was some intentionality behind their dialogue- but everything so far just points to the writers themselves thinking "so armand is an abused sub bottom, that's his defining trait" and shoving dialogue about that into every other character's mouth without thinking if that specific person would actually say or think that. there's no reason a 265 yo french former rural aristocrat, a 72-yo usamerican journalist, and a 20-something french-canadian bookseller should be making the same kind of "armand is a beta bottom lawl" comment- but they are doing that in the show, bc the writers think it's funny and expect the audience to laugh along with them.
This is exactly the kind of distinction that makes it very clear that the racism is coming from the writers, not the characters. And it is not limited to the racist lines either. It's in everything. It's in the way Louis and Claudia talk about Lestat in season 1 and then Armand and Louis talk in season 2 and now in Season 3 they have this whole scene where Regina and Louis can get specific about zone 1 and zone 2 London accents--which is probably something they just stole from a conversation Jacob and Delainey and Assad might have had on-set--when there is not once any reference to the Black background of Louis and Claudia being different. Or Armand and Louis' experiences of racialised people in France and then in the US being different.
Even the 'oooh snap' anti-racist or 'calling out whitey' lines that the show offers are not grounded in a specific character's history, but just what the 21st century white writer thinks sounds like a good zinger.
No disrespect intended, but the way Louis and Claudia speak about Lestat in season one felt right because they were living in a racially charged era under Jim Crow in the South where lynchings are commonplace. Claudia is literally rescued by Louis from a racial massacre as a result of Louis having enough of the racism Fenwick inflicted on him for years including him pushing the goal posts and outright banning Louis from playing the game. The racial tension and lines spoken in s 1 & 2 made sense at least to me.
Tom Anderson, Fenwick, all the white characters who had something to say about that uppity negro getting too big for his britches is exactly how they'd treat a Black character who had pride in himself and wanted success and would not let his race get in the way of that no matter how hard they rigged the game and did their best keeping him down.
Claudia's hatred for Lestat and how she felt as if she and Louis were slaves under his control doing his bidding isn't out of character for her.
TVL on the other hand, plays racism for laughs at the expense of the characters and the Black and Brown audience who helped build up fandom. The butt of jokes are the Brown and Black main characters and it serves no purpose the way Daniel's antagonistic nature used racism to provoke Louis into responding while he was interviewed. He's also a White boomer journalist patronizing and acting as an authority on racism to the vampire who actually lived through violent racism and believes it is his right because he does believe he's the smartest person in the room.
OP is right. There is no difference in how they speak. It sounds like the same type of tone and there isn't enough variation for you to distinguish the different type of speech. Twink is something that gen z started using as a slur instead of the f word. We know the original term meant pubescent/post-pubescent gay skinny (nearly often) white boy. But you see it all over fandom in the way they call Sam a twink who's not some scrawny kid, when he's literally pushing 40. So writers are looking at tiktok/tumblr/twitter/reddIT to write jokes that appeal to the white majority that frequent these platforms. SNO all pretty much sound the same as well. Whereas every character from major to minor on IWTV had their own distinct voice even told from Louis' narration.
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Possible interview with the vampire book spoilers but I'm pretty sure it should be ok.
I have a genuine question! please forgive me if it comes off as defending the racist writing I want to be clear that its really pissing me off also and is why I'm sending this ask. But how do you know when something is racist in this show and when it's something that was in the original books? or when it's both? Because Louis in the books as we know was a white slave owner, I feel like making him black has both improved the story tenfold and also made it really complicated now that we are in Lestats pov because Louis is intentionally lying in the books in a way I don't think show Louis is. I have not read the Vampire Lestat but I know there are some reveals that make Lestat more sympathetic and I'm afraid of those reveals in the show coming off as racist now and dismissing Louis more than he already has been. I don't know if this makes much sense but I'm just really struggling with sympathizing with Lestat and Louis at the same time when the writing is getting more racist than ever this season. I'm trying to enjoy it as a story and also be critical of it as a piece of media someone wrote and it's just getting more and more annoying. What is racist writing and what is Lestat and Daniel being racist and complicated characters. You are one of the only blogs who I consistently agree with on interview with the vampire so that is why I'm asking you but of course no pressure to respond or post this! it feels like it may invite discourse and I don't want to inflict that on your blog.
hello! thank you so much for the ask! it definitely doesn't come off as defending the racist writing or anything, i completely understand where you're coming from đââď¸ and hopefully i can answer in a way that makes sense. (it ended up being VERY long so it's under a read more lmao im sorry)
ignoring the reason that rolin said he made louis a black man specifically just for the sake of this post (because that would only make it even lengthier while i go into detail about my disdain for that man), i also think making him a black man living in the jim crow south was a wonderful change from his book originsâit gave him so much more depth and allowed his story to be told in a more meaningful way. the issue though with making him black, comes in how he's written within the context of those around him. i believe that, for the most part, s1 and s2 did a great job of emphasizing the racism and homophobia that louis experiences without it feeling like the writers themselves are inflicting their own antiblack biases upon him. he grew up as a closeted creole man in the south so his negative experiences made sense from a story standpoint, you know? we knew why they were happening for the most part.
lestat was a french man from a different century that was frustratingly out of touch, but that too felt purposeful. you could see the moments where he truly loved louis and how that love drove him to behave in despicable ways out of fear of losing that love. it played into the belief that you can care for someone, but not understand them, and ultimately hurt them deeply because of that. lestat is a flawed character, they all are, but he felt far more realistic and better written to me. even during the trial he admitted that he'd dropped louis from the sky to hurt him, to break him, because louis wasn't returning his affection. the onus was not put upon louis (by lestat, as other vampires did very much blame louis) for not returning lestat's feelings.
lestat was actually one of my favorite characters in the previous seasons, i really loved a lot of what they did with him. overall, it was a realistic sort of writing without feeling like the show and universe were making him (louis) a dartboard for everyone's grievances or turning him into the stereotypical sort of black caricature. it didn't feel like they were resentful of his blackness in those seasons.
although, sometimes it did feel like they were skirting around wanting to fully acknowledge his (or claudia's) blackness, but that was more of an issue for me in s2âsuch as calling the trial a stoning and not a lynching. but i still think it was all handled with more care and intention than in s3. you could see where both louis and lestat were in the wrong for various actions, as opposed to louis being the singular villain that drove lestat to do all the bad things he does.
in TVL (the novel), lestat becomes a rockstar primarily to take the heat off of louis, who is at risk from other vampires following the publication of the book. at its core, his motives are based on love for louis and a desire to protect him from the danger that he has unknowingly put himself in by revealing their nature to the world. in the series, though, louis does not want the book published, but daniel does so anyway, putting louis in danger (as is shown by the reveal that he killed 30-something vampires in dubai). if they were still attempting to go for book accuracyâwhich you'd think, given rolin toted that fuckass book around everywhere during early promo, showing off how loved it wasâthis wouldn't have happened, OR it would've been revealed that lestat helped him kill those vampires. because would lestat not want to aid the man he supposedly loves, especially considering that louis didn't even want the book published in this universe and made that clear?
and that's only the beginning of the the changes they make, though in regards to louis it's just brand new writing, seeing as he's not that big of a character in TVL. they had the opportunity to do quite literally anything with louis' character because they were deviating from book-canon with him, and yet this is the route they took. and it's where i think they shifted from an in-universe racism that made sense given the time period, to the writers slipping in their own dislike of the character. i will die on this hill, but i truly don't think they anticipated the love louis (and claudia) would get during the first two seasons, along with the backlash lestat would receive due to the abuse he put them through, and so they're trying to walk it back and make louis seem like this deplorable, wretched character that's more flawed than anyone else. also, lowkey, i think there was some bitterness regarding how powerful louis' ending monologue was and how deeply it was loved.
lestat being characteristically racist, to me, was with scenes in s1 and s2 where he overlooked the disrespect louis experienced at the hands of tom, the alderman or at the opera in favor of trying to pacify him or smooth over louis' disdain by downplaying the experiences or ignoring the racism at their core. lestat didn't know the first thing about racism or experiencing it and didn't care to, he's a blond-haired, blue-eyed frenchman. you watch the disconnect between him and louis, or lestat and claudia and, while frustrating, you understand why it's happening and where it comes from.
the way every character is treating louis in s3 is the writers themselves being racist and antiblack towards louis and using the other characters as a channel to express it. daniel calling louis a "bucket of louisiana fried chicken" was extremely unnecessary and played more for racist shock value than the character daniel actually trying to be as scathing as possible. he's undoubtedly got a way with words and could've said innumerable cruel things without jumping to that particular insult. i think that was done more for the writers enjoyment than correct characterization. there's no real reason for him to suddenly make such a comment about louis when he was trying to repair their relationship last we saw the two together (as he also brings up louis ignoring him).
louis is called a whore by lestat for sleeping with one man (a reveal that's given to us while louis is reaching out during a moment if extreme emotional distress), louis is called a liar and a manipulator by lestat and armand respectively, they're still pushing the pimp narrative, and his character arcs feels rushed and discarded. the writers are consistently disrespecting louis and retconning what he's said and done during the first two seasons for reasons that go beyond wanting to push him back into a relationship with lestat. louis is forced to apologize and lower himself again and again when there is no reason for him to.
lestat's overall treatment doesn't make much sense. like i said in a previous post, him being upset at louis for not reaching out when he was shot makes no sense considering lestat wasn't rushing to his aid when louis was shot as a very young fledgling in s1. nor did he go rushing to louis' aid if he truly thought him to be dead after armand called him (lestat) in s2âsomething that's even more bizzare considering he allegedly did not stay away from louis out of fear that he would not believe lestat was actually the one to save him, but because he wanted louis to be miserable. where is the love between these two characters that was felt in s1 & s2?
i don't feel any longing for louis from lestat's perspective (nor longing for lestat from louis' tbh). it feels like the writers just want louis to beg and crawl to lestat's feet and then he'll take him back and all will be well. where is the mutual love? the painful desire and regret given their past and shared trauma following the death of their daughter? they've barely shared any scenes together and what we have seen has been a rushed mess or just another way to show that louis was yet again in the wrong. this isn't in-universe in-character choices, this is the writers attempting to humble the black man as retribution for how much growth/gained independence he had in the previous season, and how well-loved he was as a way to coddle and exonerate his white love interest.
you cannot cherry pick what you want to adapt from the books if you're only doing so in order to demonize one character and absolve the other/excuse him of the awful things he's done. im going to run the risk of sounding like a broken record here so im gonna bring this to a close, but i hope i answered your question even a little bit!
tldr; you could see the complexities of all the characters in s1 and s2 and understand their relationships in regards to racism, internalized homophobia and sexism within themselves and each other. it all felt purposeful and (mostly) correctly characterizedâeveryone felt real. in s3 louis has been turned into an apologetic caricature with a lack of good writing, and almost everyone else has been turned into copy-paste cynical quip-givers that the writers can use to vomit exposition and lore/show how louis is actually the worst of the worst and lestat was essentially forced to do every bad thing he's ever done.
The way that 5000 Trump supporters and Klan members got drowned out during a really bad storm when they were gonna march in DC... and they had to seek shelter in the- wait for it-
The African American Smithsonian.
The writing hasn't been this good and pro-Black since Charlie got Kirked 𤣠But seriously, like... Imagine! Imagine marching in your hatred and fearmongering, having to seek shelter bc even nature rebuked your presence, AND you had to seek aid in a place where the people you hate... STILL gave you shelter. It couldn't be more obvious.
People only like the idea of trickster spirits. "Oh, I could deal with them, easy." But once they meet one in person it's suddenly "wow, this guy sure is annoying."
The thing is, that's not a trickster. That's a self-absorbed prick given absolute power.
A trickster is not omnipotent. A trickster has rules within which they work, and their power is not in suddenly controlling every aspect of your existence, it's in finding the fucking loopholes and smacking power over the head with them. Sometimes repeatedly.
Some of them are unkind, some of them are outright mean, and yeah, some of them are annoying. But all of them have rules within which they work.
That fucking prick of a character is what happens when you tell a white man he can control reality.
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Louis is better than me. I'd have hit him with "BITCH, SO WHAT? ME TOO. I TOLD THAT NIGGA RELOAD! THE FUCK YOU MEAN 'CHECK ON YOU'? GO IN THERE AND SEE IF I'M BUGGING!"