If only because dust is what we come to

But one aspect was the same: the rewrite of the novel's ending to have Elphaba fake her death, Fiyero become the Scarecrow through Elphaba's magic, and the two of them leave Oz together.

I was surprised to see this. Somewhere I had read that in the musical's earliest workshops, Elphaba really did melt. But I guess whoever made that claim was misinformed, because this outline predates any workshops, yet Elphaba lives.

Since I read it, I've been thinking. At this early stage of the show's creation, Glinda's role was much smaller than it ultimately became. Kristin Chenoweth obviously hadn't been cast in the role yet; from all I've read, it was really only with her talent and charisma that Glinda was enhanced from a supporting character into the co-lead and the whole plot was retooled from just "the story of Elphaba" into "the story of Elphaba and Glinda's friendship." While the '98 outline doesn't revolve around Elphaba's relationship with any one person, I will say that in this early concept of the show, her most important relationship is her romance with Fiyero. (Although her relationships with Nessarose and Dr. Dillamond also get more stage time, which was reduced in favor of more Glinda time in the final script.)

This makes sense of what I've read elsewhere, that "As Long As You're Mine" was the first song Stephen Schwartz wrote for the show. The outline suggests titles for several of the songs, but "As Long As You're Mine" is the only song that already has its final title, and the show's finale was originally going to be an "As Long As You're Mine" reprise. The whole show was more Fiyeraba-centric.

(Just for the heck of it, I'd like to hear some fans record a rearrangement of the finale replacing the "For Good" reprise with "As Long As Your Mine," just to hear how it sounds intertwined with "No One Mourns the Wicked" – or rather, with "No One Loves the Wicked," as that song is called in the outline – and create a sense of what this different finale might have sounded like.)

I'm always interested in subtle inconsistencies (or what some people think are inconsistencies) within works of fiction, and looking at possible explanations for them (multiple writers, multiple drafts that changed the story, etc.) I've been thinking of how a certain subset of Wicked fans find Elphaba's ending to be frustrating and unsatisfying. Even knowing that it's supposed to be bittersweet, how can she choose to leave in the end with a man whose relationship with her has been so much less important and less emphasized than her bond with Glinda, without even letting Glinda know she's alive?

Two gnc girls, who feel restricted by the constraints of the society they live in and by the traditional femininity they're expected to embrace.

And somehow, the fandom paints them as unreasonable NLOGs who HATE and disrespect feminine women and who should just shut up and embrace their role in society, or at least tone down their criticism of society.

Not only that, but them existing as gnc girls and complaining about the treatment they receive because of that Is treated as them being hateful, self centered and asocials loners, unlike their feminine counterparts.

But in fact, it's totally the opposite.

Arya and Eloise are consistently shown as caring about the people around them and making friends, including people who are considered "beneath" them.

But because they lash out sometimes or *gasp* try to share their interests and get mad if they aren't taken seriously, then they're histerical NLOGs who hate pure and beautiful femmine women.

They're supposed to be endlessly supportive of gender conforming women, they're MUST grow up learn that it's ok to wear dresses and makeup and do embroidery and sew and get married and have babies ecc...

But they don't get to ask the same.

It's ok for other people to shame and condescend them for not being proper women.

But if they fight back?

Yay I based this off of Christina Chong's song

If you liked start treks musical episode from strange new worlds, she has her own ep from the actor that plays La'an :> I'd totally give it a listen ;)

More than anything else he wanted to walk the streets of the Emerald City with Elphaba— there was no more beautiful place to be in love…

“I love you,” said Elphaba.

“So that’s that then, and that’s it,” he answered her and himself. “And I love you. So I promise to be careful

gregory maguire

If the other movies came first, Wicked would definitely be less well-received.

But of course if not for the success of Wicked, the other movies wouldn't have been made.

Wicked has depth and meaning. Wicked has socio-political statements to make; there's much more to it than just "making the villain sympathetic." But the same can't be said for the movies that copy it. They use the basic concept without the substance.

I made the scene from Ponyo because Studio Ghibli has me in a chokehold fr

I thought Granmamare fits for Fiyero in this scenario (Dw his hands are dry) because god of mercy hmm

And honestly Elphaba as Fujimoto fits a little too well, an over worked wizard fr LMAOO

I got to test out many textured brushes and lighting so this was really fun! And I finally found the time to listen to the Epic musical! I didn't know what it was, so I went in blind then I found out so quick it's been a while since I read the Odyssey XD It was pretty good!

Idea I based this off of @fiyeros-fulumptutious-bum theme for fiyero as a merman :>

We could’ve seen how Glinda fetishizes Fiyero for his Winkie background , which no doubt would’ve made him uncomfortable and made Elphaba stand up for him.

We could’ve seen Boq tell Fiyero he’s “one of the good ones” (or something like that) in a misguided effort to be nice that ultimately reveals his prejudice towards the Winkies.

We could’ve seen how Fiyero’s the leader of a marginalized society, if he joined the Wizard’s Gale Force as the only way to save his people from the Wizard’s wrath.

reading reviews of wicked and im seeing people say they hate book elphaba because she's "unlikable"

so many people love the feel good vibes of the musical while not seeing that they sound exactly like people who would have shunned elphaba at shiz for not being pleasant enough and making them feel unsettled instead of putting them at ease

I'm saying this because I find that people are often much more charitable towards fictional characters than real people -- and people IRL who have Elphaba's severe, unwavering personality and unwillingness to conform often face the same social stigma she did, no green skin required. Like yes, Elphaba was an outcast because she had green skin, but I don't think the green skin is the point of the novel. I think her being green is a visual manifestation of being so at odds with what you're "supposed" to be that people demonize you for it. Book Elphaba is queer and hinted to be intersex. I read her as neurodivergent, so this all tracks to me, and considering that other forms of oppression and stigmatization are very important themes in the narrative, I think the green-ness simply emphasizes to the other ways in which she's marginalized.

Trying not to go into the Wicked rant that I tend to do every few months but I feel it coming on

I'm all here for critiques of the novel, because it certainly has flaws, and I understand why people don't enjoy it -- but there is something funny to me about people wanting a narrative about looking beneath the surface to find true value but hating the version of that story that requires the most compassion to appreciate. Like the musical is fun and well-made but it does not require any effort to like musical Elphaba because she's conventionally attractive woman who's feisty and kinda quirky...oh and she's also green. And her being green matters more to the other characters than to us. We don't care that she's green (because we already know it would be wrong to judge her based on that) and the musical gives us no other reasons to judge her, so we don't really have to process any complex emotions.

(Sidenote, I think if book Elphaba were still green but more conventionally attractive, bubbly, and less political, she would not have been as much of an outcast -- at least not in her later adolescence. Her green-ness could have been a novelty or spectacle that she used to her advantage if she made up for it by being more palatable in other ways. Of course, she would never do this, because that's simply not Elphaba. She could never twist herself to be anything other than who she is, even out of social self-preservation.)

Book Elphaba is so much more prickly and unpleasant --and hell, so was I at the height of my social ineptitude and feeling like there was something so so wrong with me (because why for the love of God couldn't I just fit in and act the way the cool kids my age did).

Her unpleasantness and seriousness and insistence on talking about important things that make people uncomfortable are her green-ness imo. Those are the things that affect how we as the reader experience her, and we must experience her strangeness as well.

And while I understand that if the moral of the story is essentially "don't judge a book by its cover" then yes, you can tell a thematically sound story about a girl who is actually pretty cool but just happens to be green and talk about how she's ostracized simply because she looks different. That's a perfectly fine story -- but I think it can go much further -- because it's not only wrong to marginalize people who look different, it's also wrong to marginalize those who are internally different. Difference is persecuted whether its visual or behavioural.

Even if Elphaba weren't green, there are inherent aspects of who she is that prevent her from conforming to the ideal, both in her world and ours. And I think valuing her with all of those things in mind is a lot more rewarding than simply liking her despite the fact that she's green.

Anyway I love Elphaba Thropp and I don't think her being more palatable would have made the story better — it simply would have made it more popular, and I think on that at least, fans of both the book and musical should be able to agree is not an inherently better thing.

...

OK one last point, I saw someone saw they prefer the musical because it has more "girl power" meanwhile the book feels "obviously written by a man" and I just...dear god what a surface level take

in the musical/movie she extends forgiveness to those who have mistreated her without asking for anything back solely because she loves and cares about them. she has so many walls up and yet gives into Glinda and accepts her friendship so readily and is sooo quick to love her and dote on her. she’s never had a friend before and yet is so attuned to her and bends to her every whim even to her detriment at times

and in the book it’s even more extreme because book Elphaba is someone who is so deeply in denial of her own personhood, of her feelings, and never sees herself as someone as an equal to those around her with souls. and yet despite that she is the one character to say “i love you” the most in the entire book. she loves so openly that anytime she tries to act stoic or deny that she cares, other characters call her out on it and point it out. her whole life is defined by how deeply she cared. about her family, about Glinda, about her friends, about Fiyero, about Animals— even when she is at the cloister of st. glinda in a catatonic state of grief she was tending to others. and as impersonal as that was to her, what does it say about her that tending to others comes so naturally for her?

“For The First Time, I Feel… Wicked.”

I love how suede leggings and a white cotton shirt is considered “strange ceremonial garb” like Boq is a munchkin. Has he not seen what his own people wear book universe and movie universe???

Also fun fact: boq is based on a character from the original oz books named Boq the rich munchkin. He let Dorothy stay with her before her journey. I believe he’s this one.