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1. If Nintendo wanted to push a race agenda, then why are a majority of Gerudo characters portrayed in the Zelda series morally positive or at least neutral?

2. If it was a gender or sex thing, then why are there multiple male characters in the series that are morally good. Plus, there are 2 female Gerudo characters that are evil as well, the Twinrova sisters.

3. If Ganondorf’s depiction specifically was racist, then why did the writers for Ocarina of Time specifically want to make Ganondorf a noble figure but ran out of time only for it to be reincorporated in Wind Waker, and in TOTK he was specifically designed to be cool?

I know I try to be a point of "Let's let people learn than simply call stupid" but this both grossly misrepresenting points and missing the points entirely.

So let's take this point by point shall we?

The very first depictions of the gerudo were as thieves. I think you missed that little bit of info when you glossing over the face that nabs unfortunately falls under stereotype of "The good one!" from a race.

The first half of that point doesn't even make sense. Also, no there isn't. Unless we are saying varen is gerudo the only specifically evil gerudo is twinrova.

Alright let's talk about rudolph valentino in the 1921 silent film the shiek shall we? The title character is a racist depiction of a middle eastern noble man who ends up assaulting the white female protagonist, but she ends up falling in love with him.

Why do i mention this? Ganondorf being noble DOESN'T MEAN HE ISNT BUILT UPON RACIST IDEALS

Orientalism doesn't just get erased because one design happens to be cool. That's not how it works. Throughout the games ganondorf is referred to as "The man from the desert"

Here's another bit of history, middle eastern men have been villainized because white men believe them to be a danger to the pure white woman that are so rightfully theirs. That's a factual part of human history. Cut content or not gan was designed by Japanese writers who can certainly use these tropes and stereotypes! The fact those even ended up on a sketch page is bad enough.

We aren't reading too deep into things; you just don't like the actual reality. Kinda funny how when people call attention to stereotypes that have hurt real people call it 'Reading too deep into things"

1. When I referred to the morality of the Gerudo, I was referring to throughout the franchise as a whole since a majority of Gerudo characters are seen as heroes. Nabooru, Urbosa, Riju, Ardi, Sholani, Ronza, and Buliara to name the most noteworthy examples. So since a majority of the Gerudo in the franchise are seen as benevolent, it’s clear that any antagonistic attributes the Gerudo did have were circumstantial, for instance Ganondorf himself implied that the Gerudo being thieves was due to desperation, not just stealing because they were bad. And to add to this point the whole definition of racism is discrimination against an entire ethnic group or culture, not picking and choosing 1 or 2 bad people and the rest are either neutral or good. So saying that Nintendo’s depiction of the Gerudo is racist is still a lie.

2. Twinrova is technically two people since she consists of two people. Koume and Kotake. And no I don’t count Veran since she has enough differences that make me say she is not a Gerudo. Even if she is aligned with Twinrova to an extent and she’s definitely one of the most vile characters in the series. And also when I referred to the morally good male characters, I was referring to male characters overall in the franchise since Ganondorf is the only male Gerudo seen, and that’s mainly due to Nintendo being a bit lazy with them not introducing any other male Gerudo, not any racist agendas. That being said I will say that this is probably my weakest point, I’ll give you that.

3. My point is that when someone is depicted in a racist way, the racism angle is meant to denigrate them and make them look as bad as possible in multiple different ways from morally to intellectually, and all sorts of ways. Ganondorf is evil yes, but since he does have a few shreds of good, he isn’t all evil. Ganondorf is also shown to be intelligent and cunning. And since some of the writers at Nintendo wanted to explore Ganondorf’s complexities in both OOT and WW and they also wanted him to be a character who is cool as well, especially given all the times he’s seen aura farming, so because of all of that, clearly any racist connections made by those who claim that there is an agenda being pushed were unintentional. And while I do agree that if it’s unintentional it still deserves to be constructively criticized, even Nintendo themselves knew that using the cut designs would have been a bad idea which is why they were cut in the first place. And also Nintendo has actively explored bigotry before including at least 2 Zelda villains who are racist, those being Demise and Zant who actively look down on humanity.

So yeah, my point is that while I understand where some may be coming from (although others are definitely doing it for the sake of rage bait), I do not think Nintendo actively meant to have Ganondorf or the Gerudo in general be depicted in a racist way and that any racist connections made where unintended. Especially since Nintendo actually has explored bigotry before, including in the Zelda series.

Where did the bublins come from?

Little fellas are pure and natural and ride off to get into shenagins after TP.

It really feels like something that was probably an opinion some famous internet critic gave and then a bunch of other people started parroting it as their own. Like, I even watched a let's play where one person was going in blind and their co-host already knew the story and the one who knew was making snitty remarks about it being lame that they cast Zant aside and "forced" Ganondorf into the story and the other person very earnestly responded that they like Ganondorf and are glad they get to have more of him.

Like, say you got your way and Ganondorf wasn't the final boss of TP. How does that make TP better? Did you want the game to be shorter? Did you want less content? Do you actually not like the final dungeon or final boss sequence and wish they'd been cut? Or do you like those parts of the game just fine, you just wish that somehow it was all more of Zant at the end instead of Ganondorf? Would that have added anything to the narrative? Did it actually feel like his story was concluded too early and we somehow missed out on further character development that would've made a more satisfying ending?

Would you have preferred Zant do the thing where the new villain defeats the old villain to show how much more powerful he is (because that trope is only ever met with universal acclaim). Or would you have preferred that Ganondorf be excised from the story entirely and Zant was the only villain and the story was completely straightforward with no surprises and no deeper plot to uncover about where Zant's power came from and nothing more to his character than being creepy and menacing?

Honestly, if anything Zant's the only one of Zelda's many villains who got Hijacked by Ganon where it actually felt like part of a character arc or a theme the story was trying to convey. I think excluding Vaati, pretty much every other antagonist this happens to was a minion of Ganon's whose motive the entire time was to resurrect or otherwise serve him, and they didn't really have any other personal ambitions or character development beyond that. With Zant, it really felt like they meant for his story to be a sort of parable or cautionary tale.

Like, they had the whole backstory about the Dark Interlopers starting a war, trying to claim more power than they were entitled to, and how that didn't end well for them. Then we learn that Zant actually could've been king but was rejected specifically because the Twilit people could tell he only wanted it for the prestige and his ambitions would have fucked them all over just like their ancestors. Then Zant is butthurt he didn't get what he thinks he's entitled to, and then along comes Ganondorf offering him the power he craves, which he then uses exactly the way his people feared he would. Then *shockingly* it turns out the guy who gave Zant all that power was just using him to serve his own agenda and once he had no further need of him he hung him out to dry. But then the same thing more or less happens to Ganondorf himself at the end. He thought he was entitled to power as well, and he really thought he was the shit while he had it. But in the end, he was abandoned by the Trifoce that had enabled him, and died to a 5 ft tall twunk.