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This is the type of shit I'm being put through by the way.
One thing I'll give this SS shipper is that she at least admitted that Sasuke was not jealous over Sakura after the whole Gaara drama went down. Like that's more than I can give to any other SS shipper. Everything else is complete delusion though.
Apparently Sasuke told Naruto "I know your heart and you know mine" because Kishimoto is a misogynist.
Apparently Sasuke obtained a new tomoi in his Sharingan after Naruto told him how much he meant to him because Kishimoto is a misogynist.
Apparently Naruto got on his knees, after getting beaten to pulp, to beg the Raikage to pardon Sasuke's life because Kishimoto is a misogynist.
Apparently Naruto would train all night after seeing a shooting star, taking his hand to his heart and thinking of Sasuke to then have revealed to us that Sasuke is his moving force because Kishimoto is a misogynist.
Apparently Sasuke's body moves on its own to protect Naruto even if that means giving up on his dream of revenge against his brother because Kishimoto is a misogynist.
Apparently Sasuke thinks of the accidental kiss Naruto gave him as one of his precious memories he thought of as he was dying because Kishimoto is a misogynist.
Apparently Naruto can't put into words what he feels for Sasuke but he simply cannot leave him alone carrying all that burden of hate and seeing him hurt because it hurts him too because Kishimoto is a misogynist.
You get it? Everything you read in the manga pertaining Naruto and Sasuke's relationship is simply because Kishimoto is a misogynist. No, it doesn't go deeper than that. No, it's not a homophobic argument. No, I'm not going to explain why in this particular case misognyny and homosexuality are mutually exclusive when it's known that in media and art across history as well as in real life they overlap.
I've also often heard the misogyny argument used to explain why Sakura is so badly written. Memory's not specific on this, but probs also to explain why Tenten is underused.
I disagree. I'll take that tangent and explore it for a while. It's kind of a long-ass stream-of-consciousness approach, so pls bear with me.
TENTEN
For Tenten, let's approach the glaring issue: she can't seem to do much with her weapons. Well, 1. not accurate—watch her fight herself early in Shippuuden (the Akatsuki Tailed Beast Sealing cave, the trap spell on the barrier tags). And 2. of course she struggles—she wants to be awesome like Tsunade but doesn't know how to approach it. She is excellent with weapons, but what jackass thought she'd be fine training with every ninja weapon ever designed? She can't use her weapons effectively because she hasn't mastered any particular one to the point her talents would allow.
What she ends up doing is using them as projectiles first and foremost; what she's mastered is the scroll technique for releasing them.
If you ask me, she ought to be using on one arm some sort of gauntlet that uses an auto-feed multi-scroll system to launch various kunai/shuriken (basic, paper-bomb-wrapped, wire-tether, chakra-tether-guided, lightning-release taser, netting, etc; also excellent reason to learn Flying Raijin) and on the other arm a guantlet that uses the same system to place in her hand any of a variety of less-expendable (but she still packs several) melee weapons—manriki chain, nunchaku, bo that can change to triple staff (sansetsukon), naginata, and ffs a goshdarn ninjatou.
Why the actual F doesn't she have a sword in her primary loadout?! Fuckin' srsly tho, why isn't she the Seven-Swords Woman of the Leaf? She could carry a sword for every occasion on her person in the space it takes to carry a small tantou, such as the kaisen EDC'ed by samurai women.
Tenten is depicted as culturally more Chinese than everyone else in the 11 bar Lee, and would've done well to come up with a paper-bomb-and-closed-pipe blunderbuss. With the right barrel shape, a paper-bomb-wrapped kunai turns into something closely approaching a mortar; more so with a payload inside the blade. Back to the fancy Iron Man multipurpose gauntlet weapons system: we see plenty of clever contraptions used by shinobi (e.g. Shizune's senbon launcher on her arm), and such things could easily be built. The paper-bomb sword of the Hidden Mist is a start for proof of this concept. Neji could have trained her to release small bursts of chakra from the major chakra points in her arm to activate the seals in the various weapon scrolls mounted in the gauntlet. The gauntlets would probs be kinda heavy for anyone EXCEPT a teammate of someone as training-insane as Lee. They'd also be a good bludgeon in a tight spot.
Who was poorly written? Now that I analyze this, I'd have to say Might Guy as a genin team mentor—by and large, he actually trains Lee in his specialist martial arts style and mostly just gives advice and pep-talks to Neji and Tenten. The former of those two is a genius and trained in clan-specific techniques by others; the latter is...well, she's just another kunoichi in a ninja's world. She should have been trained properly in weapons use (she seems self-taught post-Academy) by a variety of specialists. Instead, the village treated her weapons expertise as a showy gimmick and handed her training to a sensei ill-equipped to train anyone but the kid he sees so much of himself in, because that kid specifically wishes to specialize in taijutsu. Guy is a good team leader but not a well-rounded sensei, despite being the Tony Robbins of Konoha. Tenten should have had kenjutsu lessons with Hayate Gekko, for starters. She also could have been an excellent shinobi for Kishi to write as an archer, given that Sasuke seemed to never touch a bow post-UCM until his Susano'o manifested one.
Honestly, instead of throwing her a wartime bone by handing her mythic weapons that she didn't have the Outsutsuki-ness to use effectively use, I say she should've been caught up in some fumbling of Madara's right Rinnegan and immediately intuited how to use the Asura Path. Go-Go-Rinnegadget-Tenten...pack your bags, fellas, war's over. One-Rinnegan Asura-Path Tenten and 8 Gates Guy would've done a proper number on Maddy instead of just making him anxious and cracking a rib, and having her shower him with mini-missiles and blast him with an arm cannon Megaman-style would've been an excellent way to bring full-circle Guy's point about embracing her specialty as a ranged fighter instead of aspiring to brawlerhood. Madara, that dumbass fish, he had it too easy getting his eyes back—especially for how excellent a martial artist he was shown to be in the desert battle. The man is beautiful when he kicks ass....
Also, did the village forget that Tenten has a low chakra expenditure rate in combat, since she uses it primarily to trigger scroll seals to release? No wonder she could wave Hagoromo's fan around for more than two seconds in the middle of the 4GNW without either Tailed Beast chakra or that good, good Outsutsuki Vitality.
Tenten isn't underutilized by Kishi as a character so much as she's under-and mis-utilized by the Hidden Leaf, which needed to be shown to have its ducks well out of a row for Sasuke's well-founded grievances to make sense to anyone not a geopolitics and/or human rights womp. Like most of the Shinobi World, personnel aren't expected to be much more than sacrificial operators and ablative human shielding for the feudal nobility's interests. This problem of values is precisely why the Shinobi world didn't develop significant infrastructure until Naruto pursued peace with a fervor not seen since Hagoromo was a hobbyist bridge-builder. Hidden Villages are IMFs, and disavowal is the norm. Choose to accept your mission and your life will be much easier. Refuse to accept it, like Itachi, Sasuke, and Naruto, and things get fucked up to varying degrees.
Why does it make sense that Tenten was underdeveloped by the Leaf, and not by Kishi?
Look at how the Shinobi World utilizes Jinchuuriki. Seal a Bijuu into a person and leave them to stew in prejudice and they become a fail-hazardous nuke with a detonator as easily armed as a grenade's. Only one Hidden Village, the Cloud, developed their Jinchuuriki as specialists, but even then, not much more than to improve Bijuu-Jinchuuriki compatibility results. Naruto was the first, possibly since S6P himself, to develop an Outsutsuki-style Chakra Mode. The unwillingness to develop Shinobi as specialist operators by default reflects the cynicism in their world.
I guess I also need to admit I'm fond of Tenten...she's just a real brick and under-appreciated for it, dattebane. She's probably one of the most level-headed shinobi of her generation and possibly her era, and I guess I also kinda have a thing for women with a double-bun hairstyle who could obliterate me in the octagon. Or triple buns and Space Chidori, but that's yet another fandom.
SAKURA
Sakura is not poorly written, either.
We just aren't paying enough attention to how she is written because, well, she's just a kunoichi in a shounen ninja manga.
She's a letdown on the battlefield, a damn fool for chasing Sasuke to the point of a severely dysfunctional marriage—apropos of that, she's a well-masked yandere—and it's her own fault she's useless.
She has a severe self-esteem problem. That's it.
She's a civvy kunoichi with the potential to surpass several times over both the Senju scion Tsunade and quasi-oni Orochimaru as a medic and a scientist, respectively. The chakra-storage process is so intuitive for her that she ends up using it more effectively as a teenager than Tsunade does as a middle-aged woman (Chuunin exams 2 desert boogaloo, she joins Ino & Chouji); she could probably go toe-to-toe with Naruto's Frog Kumite with her base strength-enhancement techniques, and with the Strength of One Hundred seal released (and not summoning Big Katsuyu) she could probably take on the likes of Isshiki in taijutsu—I won't say Baryon Naruto here because Baryon Mode causes chakra-fusion radiation poisoning. Instead of being a martially flamboyant shounen brawler hero, she's Konoha's Susano'o. Full tilt, she'd repel any of the –shiki's—that is, IFF (look up "iff" if you aren't familiar with it) she's feeling confident. She seems to only use her Kryptonian strength fluidly when she's fired up and feeling badass (see hers and Chiyo's duel with Sasori).
And she's brilliant, to boot. She's probably somewhere between Sasuke (Academy valedictorian in their year) and Shikamaru (savant strategist) in intellect, and her confidence problem ties a mental hand behind her back like Kakashi up a cliff. Watch her feeling driven and see her develop an effective antidote to a complex poison cocktail in a day with only medic's field equipment, when the professional toxicology lab (read: puppet master Lady Chiyo and assistants) in the Sand couldn't crack it in years.
She's had the confidence problem since her very early Academy days; her parents seem the type to forget to balance their nagging with commensurate and earnest praise (they also publicly insult her personal management skills in Road to Ninja) and she was the Academy's resident pincushion for the class bullies' sharpest bitchy insults until Ino took her under her wing. Their childhood dynamic kinda reminds me of Hazumu and Tomari in Kashimashi GMG, come to think of it. For a while, Sakura is enlivened, albeit stuck to Ino like burrs to hiking socks. Then, once the UCM happens and Sasuke turns from adorable ambitious soft boy with flowers on his bag to the withdrawn, ruminating, quietly irritable, moody n' broody boy who happens to be top of the class (the girls see: Cool Kid™ with ice-cold skillz), the thing to do for status as a kunoichi becomes the pursuit of Sasuke's affections (I hate to break it to ya, ladies...), and fired up with the expectation of the reward, she steps out from under Ino's wing (with way too much antagonism to keep herself from changing her mind, I'd imagine) and declares that she is in love with Sasuke. Had she even had a conversation with him by that point? She did it because it was the popular thing to do. She convinced herself that it was her ticket to status and importance in the eyes of her peers, and she eventually became so dependent on it for propping up her self-esteem that she stuck with it far beyond the point it ceased to be a status symbol and became a valid reason to question her judgment. Does she still love Sasuke? Yeah, but there's a lot to unpack from it, and there's a found family thing going on with Team 7. Dom Toretto could tell you how much that means. But Sakura wasn't operating on good judgment when she decided to pursue Sasuke, she was operating on compulsion and fear of social rejection. Those two things tend to show up when a child is bullied and struggles to build a social life. Sakura mostly played by herself in a forest as a young child. For a while, Ino wasn't just her dearest friend, she was Sakura's ONLY friend. I know what it's like to chase social status to avoid the ache in the center of the chest that comes from feeling like you're an undesirable person socially.
When Sakura gets any opportunity to excel, she can't help but think about how she falls short of Sasuke and Naruto, which is super fucked because of how the Shinobi World values fighters over healers and harming over healing to the degree that it does. Remember how everyone gawked at how Naruto shared Kurama's chakra as a powerup to help everyone kick even more ass (but only an amount of ass for each person proportional to how much ass they usually kick, ofc), and were totally meh when Sakura literally hacked slug biology to enable the Floor Is Health Pack cheat code? Pepperidge Farm remembers. It's the Shinobi World's value system in stark relief upon the page. +1 Kishi for a depiction of Sakura living in a society so true-to-life we thought it was he who lives in a society. Maybe it was both, in truth. Either way, WE live in a society, too. And because of her society, Sakura kept looking at how she fell short of her Teammates so hard that when she decided she'd caught up with them, she actually did fall short because she wasn't focusing on her own strengths, but on the comparisons of herself to others. She spends so much time worrying about her value that she gets in her own way developing her own strengths. If she spent time developing offensive jutsu for her strengths, she'd be squarely between Sasuke and Naruto in power level because whatever her caliber, she's got a drum mag of chakra. Remember how much Tony had to do to scratch Thanos' cheek? Kaguya was easily Thanos-level and got her bell rung by Sakura in one punch. Shave Sakura's head and call her One Punch Woman.
In that case, were she a high-level brawler, she'd still be wasting her abilities. With a healthy sense of self-worth and the confidence in her skills she deserves, she'd use her water and earth releases to turn any battlefield, earth or water in its surface, into a selective healing surface. She could do all sorts of things, real sorceress stuff. It's really too bad the confidence she needs she already had, and she split it into a rambunctious headmate. As I take her narrative apart and turn it over in my dialectic hands, I'm starting to think Ino co-created the mental health clinic in part with the hope that Sakura would avail herself of its services. Sakura needs thousands of hugs applied retroactively throughout her past, she needs therapy, and she needs to have expectations placed on her that respect the magnitude of her skills and potential.
But neither the Shinobi Society nor ours are remotely kind to headstrong girls and women, and if you're a Western who believes mental healthcare in the West is lacking, you should see Japan.... Indeed, Sakura's first surgical procedure was to excise her confident and headstrong side. The confidence she has acquired had to rub off on her outer self from Inner and from Tsunade and Ino just to get her to where she is now.
This brings me to think of a fanfic that really does a good job developing Sakura as a shinobi, by Aesolucian and AgenderArcee, which depicts Sakura taking the nukenin path and being taught advanced medical ninjutsu by Kabuto. As you can expect, she becomes quite capable, even if in somewhat disturbing ways, to the point that she's nearly unkillable. In that fic she's probably harder to kill than Boro of Kara. She doesn't fare any better vis-a-vis her mental health, but damn if she isn't a master of bleeding—no, catastrophically hemorrhaging-edge medical ninjutsu.
https://archiveofourown.org/works/33976252
Point is, Sakura could've been taught a lot better in the Leaf (ahem, Kakashi; Tsuna-chan, put down the booze), and afforded a lot more reasons by the people in her life to feel valued. Instead she was bullied and unpraised, and one person stood up tall for her. She was compared to her peers in misogynist ways and her talents were left underdeveloped. I know this: I am incompetent when my head's not in the right place, and I'm brilliantly talented when i'm confident.
Point is, Tenten was in the same boat RE: the teaching and under-appreciation. While Neji was the pride of the Hyuuga and Lee the inheritor of the Hidden Leaf's best school of taijutsu, Tenten was left to her own devices with all the weapons and precious little of the specific training and guidance she needed to develop her talents.
An additional point is: Tsunade was known far and wide for being 1. busty af 2. gambly af 2.b. losey af 3. thirsty af 3.b. pretty sure she has a clinically-significant drinking problem
and not for being 4. strong af 4.b. as in if she could levitate and had a heat-ray doujutsu, her name would be Kara Zor-El 5. doctory af 5.b. literally, like, the best healthcare practitioner on the planet, hands down, for probs > a decade.
...
...Because they were just kunoichi in a ninja's world, and shinobi in a world where shinobi are thrown at geopolitical problems with the same care and value as the kunai and shuriken they throw at enemies. The Shinobi World could only be more explicit with its expectations of shinobi if it quoted Goldfinger: "No, [Shinobi], I expect you to die!"
...
So, was Sakura a useless failed heroine badly written by a misogynist mangaka, and Tenten an underused martial arts gimmick badly written by said misogynist mangaka, or did Kishi nail the human condition and especially the militarist Japanese-like culture of the Shinobi World?
Did we fail to notice that Kishi was mundanely pointing out to us how awful the Shinobi world is to people, and especially to women, just like our world is? Just like so much of Japanese society still is?
Kishimoto is very much a misogynist and you can see it in his writing, I've already written about it here [LINK]
But just to respond to the points you made.
1.- I hate when people start writing headcanons of the characters they like and start talking on how Kishimoto should've done that instead of what he actually wrote, but specially when they don't try to understand the theme of the story first. Which leads me to number 2
2.- Why on earth would Tenten of all people be the character that defeats Madara alongside Gai? Why would Kishimoto give her such importance? it makes no sense. I get that you like Tenten but most of your defence of her is simply fanfiction like "She's probably one of the most level-headed shinobi of her generation and possibly her era" You don't know this, she's barely in the manga for you to make such a statement about her.
This defence you do of characters using filler, headcanons and fanfictions instead of actual material from the manga continues.
3.- When you talk about Sakura "She's a civvy kunoichi with the potential to surpass several times over both the Senju scion Tsunade and quasi-oni Orochimaru as a medic and a scientist, respectively." the word "potential is doing *heavy* lifting here, like yeah sure if Kishimoto had written what you like she could be all that, but there's really nothing in canon that gives us the idea she could surpass two of the great Sannin.
"The chakra-storage process is so intuitive for her that she ends up using it more effectively as a teenager than Tsunade does as a middle-aged woman (Chuunin exams 2 desert boogaloo, she joins Ino & Chouji)" The chuunin exams round 2 arc is filler, so you really cannot use it as a defence of Sakura on how she has this great chakra control (that Kakashi points out is because she doesn't have much) but I also disagree in her having better chakra storage process than Tsunade because Tsunade is able to perform the jutsus and techniques she created (Sakura never created a jutsu of her own) while focusing on using chakra to keep herself young (which is misogynistic writing as well from Kishimoto's part) so basically Tsunade focuses on two techniques at the same time while fighting whereas Sakura only focuses on one.
"she could probably go toe-to-toe with Naruto's Frog Kumite with her base strength-enhancement techniques, and with the Strength of One Hundred seal released (and not summoning Big Katsuyu) she could probably take on the likes of Isshiki in taijutsu" and the fanfictions keep coming. Sakura couldn't even scratch Madara when she had the One Hundred Seal realeased but sure, she's going toe to toe with Naruto and Isshiki.
"She seems to only use her Kryptonian strength fluidly when she's fired up and feeling badass (see hers and Chiyo's duel with Sasori)." More like when she's being guided by a mentor literally step by step, which is a theme Kishimoto does in Sakura's writing. A booksmart girl that's lost once you put her out in the real ninja world unless you tell her what to do, which is why Chiyo was so great for Sakura for this arc.
"And she's brilliant, to boot. She's probably somewhere between Sasuke (Academy valedictorian in their year) and Shikamaru (savant strategist) in intellect" You just made this up and it's getting ridiculous. Sakura didn't understand the point of the written Chuunin exam unlike Sasuke and Shikamaru. Sakura didn't do anything during the forest of the death part of the exams other than cry and scream for her teammates, failed badly disguised booby traps and getting beaten so badly Lee, Sasuke and team 9 and 10 had to come to her rescue, unlike Sasuke who managed to stand his ground against Orochimaru without Chidori and other skills he'd learned after, or Shikamaru who took a whole team all by himself and got the scroll his team needed to pass to the next phase so quickly even Anko was impressed.
Sakura also got a tie in her duel during the chuunin exams against Ino, and acknowleged that if hadn't been for Naruto she would've lost. Sasuke and Shikamaru on the other hand won their duels, passed to the next stage, Sasuke learned the highly demanding Chidori jutsu in a month and Shikamaru became the only Chunnin of his generation.
Shikamaru also refused to take Sakura to the rescue Sasuke mission and tells hershe's no longer needed because 1. her persuasion skills failed 2. Now they're gonna use force to bring Sasuke back and she doesn't have what it takes to do so.
Meanwhile Shikamaru defeats Tayuya and Sasuke wins against an already incredibly strong Naruto (who is who you're trying to paint Sakura as). And this is just in the first part of the manga, in Shippuden Sakura couldn't do anything against Pain, she got knocked out when they encountered Orochimaru and Naruto unleashed the Nine Tails and when she woke up she cried, she failed to kill Sasuke when she intended to do so but in such a stupid way too, she had been told Sasuke was inmune to poison chapters before and yet her method of execution was a poisoned kunai lol so brilliant indeed. When team 7 was gonna fight Madara she charges against him without first observing her opponent and try to figure out his skills and also without communicating a strategy to her team but simply saying "I'll be a diversion", she fails to even scratch him, and Naruto and Sasuke have to save her [LINK]
So, no, she's not this brilliant ninja, strategist or anything, I'm not gonna say she's awful but she's barely above average and being put next to Naruto and Sasuke makes her skills look more lackluster than they are.
"she steps out from under Ino's wing (with way too much antagonism to keep herself from changing her mind, I'd imagine) and declares that she is in love with Sasuke." This is also what I discuss on my post about Kishimoto's misogynistic writing, for the entire manga Kishimoto likes to pit women against women, particularly Sakura who does not have a single girl friend.
"If she spent time developing offensive jutsu for her strengths, she'd be squarely between Sasuke and Naruto in power level because whatever her caliber, she's got a drum mag of chakra." And we keep going, if Kishimoto had written this instead of that then my headcanons would be canon is not analysis of a character, and also no, Sakura doesn't have a drum mag of chakra unless you're talking about the seal bc Kakashi literally tells us she doesn't at the beginning of the manga.
"Remember how much Tony had to do to scratch Thanos' cheek? Kaguya was easily Thanos-level and got her bell rung by Sakura in one punch. Shave Sakura's head and call her One Punch Woman." Yeah, after Naruto, Sasuke did all the heavy work and Kakashi prepared the spot for Sakura to punch her, what.
"As I take her narrative apart and turn it over in my dialectic hands, I'm starting to think Ino co-created the mental health clinic in part with the hope that Sakura would avail herself of its services." Fanfiction, you can call it dialectic hands or whatever, but it's fanfiction cause it's made up.
"This brings me to think of a fanfic that really does a good job developing Sakura as a shinobi, by Aesolucian and AgenderArcee, which depicts Sakura taking the nukenin path and being taught advanced medical ninjutsu by Kabuto. As you can expect, she becomes quite capable, even if in somewhat disturbing ways, to the point that she's nearly unkillable. In that fic she's probably harder to kill than Boro of Kara. She doesn't fare any better vis-a-vis her mental health, but damn if she isn't a master of bleeding—no, catastrophically hemorrhaging-edge medical ninjutsu."
And now you're bringing up a literal fanfic, like I'm not gonna read it but also it's not a defence of Sakura either???? why would I care what a random person headcanons Sakura as??
"Point is, Sakura could've been taught a lot better in the Leaf (ahem, Kakashi; Tsuna-chan, put down the booze), and afforded a lot more reasons by the people in her life to feel valued. Instead she was bullied and unpraised, and one person stood up tall for her. She was compared to her peers in misogynist ways and her talents were left underdeveloped. [...] Point is, Tenten was in the same boat RE: the teaching and under-appreciation."
You want to say Kishimoto's writing is misogynistic because he completely sidelined the female characters you like and you could make an actual case about it.
Konoha is not real, is a fictional entity that works the way it does because it reflects the authors wishes and desires. When Kishimoto cares about a female character he will show it like he does for Kushina and Tsunade.
"An additional point is: Tsunade was known far and wide for being 1. busty af 2. gambly af 2.b. losey af 3. thirsty af 3.b. pretty sure she has a clinically-significant drinking problem
and not for being 4. strong af 4.b. as in if she could levitate and had a heat-ray doujutsu, her name would be Kara Zor-El 5. doctory af 5.b. literally, like, the best healthcare practitioner on the planet, hands down, for probs > a decade."
Also this is a lie, Tsunade is very much known for being strong, the physically strongest ninja in the world, the best medic-nin in history and an overall outstanding ninja, you don't need to lie on her name. When Jiraiya first talks about her he calls her one the greatests Sannins and not an alcoholic or gambly. Orochimaru also first talks about her recognizing her medic-nin talents and how she's the only one who can help him, we're also told she's the only person who can take care of Sasuke and Kakashi who were on a Tsukuyomi-induced coma or do the surgery Lee needs to be a ninja again. Everyone is always praising Tsunade (even Madara is, the same man who mocked Sakura) because she's a very capable woman. Otherwise the council wouldn't have accepted her a 5th Hokage and she wouldn't be one of the great Sannin that stopped one of the great ninja wars.
"So, was Sakura a useless failed heroine badly written by a misogynist mangaka, and Tenten an underused martial arts gimmick badly written by said misogynist mangaka, or did Kishi nail the human condition and especially the militarist Japanese-like culture of the Shinobi World?
Did we fail to notice that Kishi was mundanely pointing out to us how awful the Shinobi world is to people, and especially to women, just like our world is? Just like so much of Japanese society still is?"
The thing is that Kishimoto isn't doing any of that. Kishimoto doesn't see the Shinobi world as this awful place when it comes to men, he sees it as an opportunity to become comrades, to become closer with one another and to make peace and all that but his vision only includes men. Sure, there's wars and genocide and all that but in Kishimoto's mind men, together, can overcome all that and bring change to the world, women aren't included in that process, they're just props for the men (which is another thing in Kishimoto's writing, every single one of his female characters are male-centered) Tsunade is the only one he kinda cares about. Tenten and Sakura reveal Kishimoto's misogynistic tendencies in broader terms, that is if you see the patterns he gives to his female characters, if you focus on them individually you might miss them and simply think oh well, this is simply how she's supposed to be.
I'm not western but I'm also not Japanese but either way I already know not to read and analyse Naruto from a western point of view. But also this feels like that meme thing/ thing in Japan but for misogyny as if Japanese men abusing and mistreating Japanese women was special compared to the way men from the rest of the world abuse and mistreat women. Or in this case, Japanese men writing in misogynistic ways women was that set apart from the way men of the rest of the world do.
Sorry to bother you, have you heard of the user strange-nights-of-stone? They're currently engaging in stalking behavior against me, despite knowing that I have ptsd caused by a christian couple who is CURRENTLY stalking me. I tried to call them out on their masterpost, but they deleted the comment. I'd appreciate it if the word got spread around.
sure girl! i have no audience but maybe answering this will help in some way 🫶🏽 much love to you hon
How to deal with the homophobic and horrible ss, nh, sh etc. stans? Just reading their content makes me feel gaslighted and makes me want to quit my little sns blog, because I feel isolated.
First of all, I'm sorry you feel that way. The best thing to do is honestly to just ignore them. The canon ships, in particular, are horrid and are consequently routinely subjected to lots of criticism by people outside of the carefully constructed echo chambers of canon shippers. SS/NH fans cope with this by harassing SNS shippers who have been a particular source of insecurity for the entire run of the show. There's a reason why they routinely steal from the sns dynamic to prop up their ship and have to rely on fillers and novels and databooks, etc. instead of working with the manga.
This brings me to my next point. Part of the reason they are so emboldened is because the "victors" are the ones who write the story, and they've used this to control the narrative and recontextualize what actually happened during the original run of the story. So, something you should know is that SNS fans have always been right about the core of the manga.
While there were obviously endgame SS/NH believers, the idea that Sasuke/Sakura and Naruto/Hinata were mutually in love was not a unifying factor in those fandoms.
In the Naruto Collector Book 3, there was an interview in which Kishimoto himself acknowledged the fact that Sakura and Hinata's feelings of love were unrequited. This interview is practically lost media, and is conveniently never discussed but the book is still available. The collector series has other interviews with Kishimoto as well.
But the main point is that this interview was released in 2007, long after we were already into Part 2 of the manga. This firstly debunks the idea that there was a secret budding love story that was sabotaged by SP, though you don't need any interview to tell you that Sasuke literally only thinking of Team 7 during Sakura's love confession, or Naruto not reflecting on any special moments with Hinata was proof enough of the lack of romance. More importantly, however, this is connected to my point about belief in "true love all along" was not a unifying factor in the SS/NH fandoms. Many of them were aware of this interview (see the respective examples of a SS fan and a NH fan reacting to it below) and thus spent their time taking solace in databooks and writing longwinded posts about how mutual romantic development weren't required for endgame.
What DID unite solo/multshipping SS in particular was the belief that Sasuke considered Sakura special, and thus, she would be the one who helped heal his heart. And this belief is where the real "war" between SS/SNS lied. If you look at old SNS posts, you'll see that there was never a unifying belief that SNS would be canon either, for obvious reasons. You'll notice that many posts were prefaced with some variation of "regardless of the nature of their bond...." because it wasn't so much what they were to each other rather than how significant they were to each other. You'll see a lot of posts about them transcending traditional relationship categories.
So this was the primary context in which SS and SNS fans argued. You can see below just some of the drivel that SS came up with. They have always been relentlessly insecure harassers who used to attack SNS fans for simply seeing the direction in which the manga would go.
They ignored Naruto making Sasuke's heart beat repeatedly, they ignored Naruto being tied to Sasuke's sharingan transformation — which later in the manga was explicitly called out for being the reflection of the heart that SNS fans postulated it was. They ignored the fact that Sakura was rendered fungible [a fact you can see reflected in the interview below when Kishimoto discusses what makes Team 7 special and completely evades mention of Sakura] and that Kishi usurped moments that could have been special for Sasuke and Sakura by including Naruto (eg. Sasuke bringing up not wanting Naruto to worry in the FOD, Sasuke thinking about Naruto to keep the curse mark at bay as well despite the fact that Sakura was the one who was explicitly worried about him, Sasuke including Naruto and talking about precious nakama in the fight against Gaara despite the fact that Sakura was the only one in mortal danger, etc.). They ignored the fact that Sasuke quite literally hierarchially ranked Naruto as a more intimate friend than Sakura. Harassed SNS fans for pointing out the basic setup in the manga that served to reinforce SNS fans' interpretations because they constructed a version of the manga that was wholly centered on the special and unique "bond" between Sakura/Sasuke.
All this lasted to the war arc. They twisted themselves in pretzels to argue about how Sasuke leaving Sakura to burn in lava and outright stating that her and Kakashi's lives didn't matter was him repressing his super secret feelings of care for her while attempting to downplay the mutual affection displayed in the SNS bond. Even the more "neutral" pro team 7 SS fans looked for ways to subtly denigrate SNS' bond. Sasuke makes no mentions of Sakura when the 10 tails is about to blow up the shinobi alliance? Who cares because at least Sakura's face doesn't have a cut across it (yes, they really did misinterpret pro SNS moments where Sasuke individuated Naruto as negative). And they did all this while making anti Sasunaru clubs and hiding in forums to complain about how SNS was getting too much focus in the manga (something older fans can attest to) because deep down many of them saw the writing on the wall.
Now SNS fans, on the other hand, displayed the critical reading skills that the SS fandom lacked — and I don't mean that facetiously. They picked up on the fact that it was significant that Sasuke lost control of himself when Naruto showed up. They understood the significance of Sasuke specifically asking about the status of the 9 tails given the prior context of Sasuke specifically needing to kill Naruto because he wanted to become stronger. They recognized that Naruto was specifically singled out with a cut precisely because he was special by picking up on the patterns peppered throughout the text. They also respected the Team 7 bonds established in Part 1 — they had no need to undermine it because there was a confidence in Naruto/Sasuke's relationship being special — while understanding the disadvantage in the fact that Sasuke and Sakura dynamic always included a "we" (see example from a 2008 analysis below). They knew there would be a reconciliation in which the tension between duty and desire would be resolved and would lead to Sasuke accepting his heart/inner child which would lead him to Naruto.
And lo and behold, 698 came and SNS fans were validated while SS fans were livid and angry. They complained and harassed SNS blogs and threw tantrums and cried about the manga being retconned. It's so easy for them to pretend they knew everything in hindsight, but the receipts don't lie. There has never been anyone more in denial about the core facts of the manga than SS/NH fans. Don't let them prevent you from supporting SNS. The SNS bond was validated.
Even to this day, they have never gotten over the fact that Sasuke confirmed their worst nightmares which is why they have to cope by literally cropping Naruto out of panels (Look at the 97 likes — and this is tame for them), spreading poor translations, and taking glee in the idea of Kishimoto not being the arbiter of canonicity, so they can take refuge in material not written by him, because they hate what he did write.
As I type this, they are getting made fun of in different languages and SS fans are coping by pretending that anyone who points out the dysfunction of their implied no kiss couple has has no literacy and is ignoring 700 chapters of development, the development in question being Sakura still acting infantile while Sasuke remains indifferent.
Why should you feel isolated because you want to support the main bond when SS fans even have to lie about the poorly written filler novels that were expressly created FOR them (eg. Sakura forcefully kissing Sasuke and then Sasuke immediately grabbing Naruto and leaving Sakura to fall off the motorcycle they were all riding on; A scene SS fans repeatedly lied about and repeatedly misrepresented).
Unfortunately I've nearly run out of images and I didn't even get to finish highlighting all of the lies of SS or discuss NH fans the way I wanted too but please, don't worry about the hate and the homophobia. A significant part of it is them lashing out because of insecurity.
Then and now, nothing has changed.
They hated the fact that Kishimoto wasn't concerned with Hinata's unrequited feelings and patiently waited for Sasuke to fade into oblivion so Naruto and Hinata could ride off into the sunset. When that didn't come, and Naruto prioritized Sasuke even after Hinata's confession, they took to harassing SNS fans. All they have is a retcon movie that Kishimoto wasn't even devoted to, which is why, in addition to lionizing scenes from the film, they even have to read panels incorrectly to achieve some satisfaction.
SNS is amazing and enough to keep me occupied, but another way of dealing with the hatred and homophobia (which is the main point of this post) is remembering why it's so rampant in the first place. The reason you feel gaslighted is because they are literally trying to rewrite history (these people have even lied about how much their novel sold and had to be corrected by a sale tracking account).
I haven't even scratched the surface, but you can see a few more examples here, here, here, and here. Giving in to their bullying is how the liars win. Don't let them!

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been seeing a lot of stitches of this with woc absolutely shredding taylor and the shit she’s pulled in the name of feminism and it’s so refreshing
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The big answer for some questions from ss stans who state that Sasuke would always choose Sakura over Naruto and Retsuden is the proof…. Guys Retsuden is not and never will be canon because firstly Kishimoto did not write it, secondly Eska said it is her interpretation, thirdly it has Kishimoto’s name and art on it because Naruto was created by him and he has a contract that states he have to draw cover etc. and lastly the story of Retsuden contradicts itself with what Kishimoto wrote.
In Naruto manga we have many instances where Sasuke always chooses Naruto over Sakura. The war arc is the best example: he let her fall into lava, he wanted to left her when the bomb was going off, he did not want to save her from Kaguya and through out the manga he always said to her that it is not her business but he always engages Naruto into his life. Of course I understand that ss stans will say that he was into darkness blah blah but so what? Why would he choose Naruto then if he was into darkness? Come up with something more creative please.
Bless Kishi that he wrote Gaiden because there we even find more proof that Sasuke will always choose Naruto over his wife. This is Sasuke’s face after 12 years of not seeing Sakura. He is not happy at all, kind of annoyed or angry even.
This is Sasuke’s face when he stops Sakura from apologizing and in that moment he wanted to tell the truth why he does not come home. His face looks here really angry and Sakura looks worried. Why is she worried? because Sasuke would say the hard truth right there because he is honest.
This is Sasuke when Sakura was captured. Sarada is more worried than her own father, husband of her mom. Instead he is talking about time space ninjutsu…. He did not even want to sense her and she was taken somewhere on Earth.
And here is Sasuke when Naruto was attacked. Sasuke knows that Naruto can heal right away but look at the horror on his face. Ss will say that he does not worry about Sakura because she is strong but that is not the case because even if someone is strong but if you love them you will always worry about them because of these feelings.
In Boruto movie which was written by Kishi, Sasuke sensed Naruto’s chakra in the other dimension right away and went to save him as fast as possible. He even gave him support by touching his back while with Sakura he asked if she can heal herself. Great support and his face 😂
Lastly, you base everything on the novels but in the novel after Retsuden Sasuke wanted to die with Naruto and was so ready to leave Sakura but then you will say it is not canon 😂 So yeah Sasuke will always choose Naruto. Always because he is his one and only. That is why Kishi wrote Gaiden because every non canon trash that comes out about SS will always be massacred by it. Kishi is genius.
Sasuke vs itachi but sasuke uses forbidden jutsu… threatening to snitch
Every january goth couples are fucking hard to try and have a halloween baby they're gonna name ophelia or some shit
I’m a Halloween baby but my parents are normal so I’m Garrett
Hi garrett
happy birthday garrett
happy birthday garrett
Happy birthday garrett
hbd garrett!!

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I'm sorry your writing strategy is WHAT?? I'm going to need a thorough explanation of this because I'm FASCINATED
[brian murphy voice] I DIDNT SAY ANYTHING WEIRD!!!
okay i did. but also! if it ain’t broke…
here’s how this crumbles cookie-wise. sometimes (as is currently the case) i feel like i am trying to hold onto a whole novel in my brain at once. this does not feel particularly good because the novel doesn’t belong in my brain it belongs Out There. so i make a very detailed outline and then i start at chapter 1, and i write to 100 words (give or take a few). then i move on to chapter 2 and write to 100 words. then to chapter 3 and so on until i have at least 100 words in each chapter. then once i’ve run through the whole book, i go back to the beginning and make sure each chapter is up to 200. then i’m usually in the Meat of each scene so i’ll get everything up to 500, then 1000, then 1500 and then usually i clock out of chapters around or just under the 2k mark.
this appeases the hyperactive part of my brain by making sure i’m never bored, and helps the project manager in my brain so i can keep track of many moving parts in the novel and also ensures that scenes at the end speak to scenes at the beginning since i’m (sort of) writing the whole book at once.
NOTE: sometimes i get lost in the sauce and write way past 100 or wherever im at, and that’s fine. it just means i probably skip that chapter during my next pass since it’ll be past my goal wc for each chapter of the run.
that is all. try it, if you want. i honestly don’t know how to write books any other way
Oh a novel says that? those filler novels not written by Kishimoto? phew I thought there was any indication in canon that Naruto loves Hinata, y'know something that Kishimoto actually wrote to give us that feeling.
Both Sasusaku and Naruhina truly got nothing but filler content to support their ships after Kishimoto paid them DUST in his own work.
Also I've never read the full filler novel (or any filler novel for that matter) but just from this excerpt you can tell the writing has the quality of a fanfiction written by a 14 year old. Simply dull and boring and uninspiring.
(taken from a post about AI)
speaking as someone who has had to grade virtually every kind of undergraduate assignment you can think of for the past six years (essays, labs, multiple choice tests, oral presentations, class participation, quizzes, field work assignments, etc), it is wild how out-of-touch-with-reality people’s perceptions of university grading schemes are. they are a mass standardised measurement used to prove the legitimacy of your degree, not how much you’ve learned. Those things aren’t completely unrelated to one another of course, but they are very different targets to meet. It is standard practice for professors to have a very clear idea of what the grade distribution for their classes are before each semester begins, and tenure-track assessments (at least some of the ones I’ve seen) are partially judged on a professors classes’ grade distributions - handing out too many A’s is considered a bad thing because it inflates student GPAs relative to other departments, faculties, and universities, and makes classes “too easy,” ie, reduces the legitimate of the degree they earn. I have been instructed many times by professors to grade easier or harder throughout the term to meet those target averages, because those targets are the expected distribution of grades in a standardised educational setting. It is standard practice for teaching assistants to report their grade averages to one another to make sure grade distributions are consistent. there’s a reason profs sometimes curve grades if the class tanks an assignment or test, and it’s generally not because they’re being nice!
this is why AI and chatgpt so quickly expanded into academia - it’s not because this new generation is the laziest, stupidest, most illiterate batch of teenagers the world has ever seen (what an original observation you’ve made there!), it’s because education has a mass standard data format that is very easily replicable by programs trained on, yanno, large volumes of data. And sure the essays generated by chatgpt are vacuous, uncompelling, and full of factual errors, but again, speaking as someone who has graded thousands of essays written by undergrads, that’s not exactly a new phenomenon lol
I think if you want to be productively angry at ChatGPT/AI usage in academia (I saw a recent post complaining that people were using it to write emails of all things, as if emails are some sacred form of communication), your anger needs to be directed at how easily automated many undergraduate assignments are. Or maybe your professors calculating in advance that the class average will be 72% is the single best way to run a university! Who knows. But part of the emotional stakes in this that I think are hard for people to admit to, much less let go of, is that AI reveals how rote, meaningless, and silly a lot of university education is - you are not a special little genius who is better than everyone else for having a Bachelor’s degree, you have succeeded in moving through standardised post-secondary education. This is part of the reason why disabled people are systematically barred from education, because disability accommodations require a break from this standardised format, and that means disabled people are framed as lazy cheaters who “get more time and help than everyone else.” If an AI can spit out a C+ undergraduate essay, that of course threatens your sense of superiority, and we can’t have that, can we?
I think anyone with a PD is allowed to hc a villain with a PD out of projection, people without a PD are not allowed to do so because that isn't projection nor from a place of "this is how I sort out my feelings"
does that make sense??? Is the point getting across???
Sasunaru shippers really go rabid whenever Narusasu shippers point out the parallels between Naruto and Sasuke's relationship (dialogues and panels) and Minakushi, ObiRin, MarioxSaori that basically show how Sasuke was given the treatment and role Kishimoto also likes to give the female characters in the straight relationships he's written.

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Itachi after traumatizing 7 year old Sasuke
(⬆️ naruto's bday doodle i did a year ago ..)
i drew some silly continuation for this🎁⬇️
snsmonth2024 day10: naruto's birthday