how i feel about ramy and robin from babel

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how i feel about ramy and robin from babel

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just came back from an exam and look what i got in the mail hehehe
@jaleana the art and print quality is sooo good i'm keeping this tucked in my babel copy forever tysm 🥺
Babel merch up on my Etsy shop!! Two prints and a sticker 🥰
the venn diagram of people who complain that rebecca doesn't trust her readers and the people who ran to interpret the mere mention of isr*el in taipei story as "praise for isr*el" is a circle
need to write a oneshot of robinramy doing smth special together each year for chinese new year and bengali new year respectively
anyway shuvo noboborsho to my fellow bangalis :]

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the thing is, right, sure ramy's religion might have smth to do with his response to robin's "she wants you," but that's only if you extrapolate. rf kuang does not textually imply ramy refusing to develop feelings for letty bc he's muslim (plus. it doesn't matter anyway bc even if he did, it would be fine bc it was common knowledge that "non-muslim women become muslim automatically by marrying a muslim man"). what rf kuang DOES imply clearly is 1) ramy and letty having racial tension and 2) ramy and robin having queer feelings for each other
"don't you know why?" is also not abt the racial tension bc that was literally established right before this conversation. writing-wise, it makes no sense for ramy to repeat smth he knows robin is already aware of. robin asks "no, really," bc he knows there is racial tension, but he's drunk and, therefore, more bold and pushes ramy to admit what he can't admit himself. that there is smth between them. that ramy does not want letty bc he wants robin
"ramy didn't like letty bc he's muslim and she's not" as if that's stopped any brown muslim guy ever ?? PLEASEEE don't make me laff if a brown guy wants a white girl they will have a white girl genuinely nothing is stopping them
people will jump through hoops to avoid the obvious. RAMY IS GAY AS HELL WOMP WOMP
someone on insta trying to say ramy isn't bengali DON'T PISS ME AWF
I finished Babel the other day, and I'm having a hard to putting my thoughts and feelings about it into words. I am starting to feel like that is one of the points of the book though. There was a constant theme in the narration of things going unsaid. Neither Professor Lovell nor Robin ever acknowledges that they are related out loud. The cohort never talk about the tension brewing between them and all the love and jealousy. There are so many more instances, and I think it says something else about things getting lost in translation. All of these things got lost in-between thought/emotion and the spoken world, and aren't those both a kind of language? Isn't that a type of translation? It's very similar to the idea that so much of this will most likely be lost to history. Everything is a language of a sort if you think about it hard enough. There are so many different modes. There are so many different ways we talk for different things. So much more was lost in translation then just the meaning of a few words manifesting as silver bars.
yes!!! this is basically it!!!
and i personally think it's actually fucking amazing of rf kuang to pair the unsaid events of the novel (which as you said carries the theme of language) with subsequent violent outcomes (robin -> lovell who never verbally claimed to be his father, letty -> ramy who never verbally but always nonverbally rejected her in favour of robin, britain -> china who are drugged with opium)
the ties to the unsaid and how it can escalate to violence was so smart of rf kuang to write about i'm still not over it
something something ramy being a highly intelligent, charming and attractive brown boy, something something letty growing up on negative depictions and stereotypes of brown boys/men, something something ramy 'proving' the stereotypes wrong but instead of letty viewing ramy as a real human being like herself she swings the pendulum the other way and eroticises him
the thing is, right, sure ramy's religion might have smth to do with his response to robin's "she wants you," but that's only if you extrapolate. rf kuang does not textually imply ramy refusing to develop feelings for letty bc he's muslim (plus. it doesn't matter anyway bc even if he did, it would be fine bc it was common knowledge that "non-muslim women become muslim automatically by marrying a muslim man"). what rf kuang DOES imply clearly is 1) ramy and letty having racial tension and 2) ramy and robin having queer feelings for each other
"don't you know why?" is also not abt the racial tension bc that was literally established right before this conversation. writing-wise, it makes no sense for ramy to repeat smth he knows robin is already aware of. robin asks "no, really," bc he knows there is racial tension, but he's drunk and, therefore, more bold and pushes ramy to admit what he can't admit himself. that there is smth between them. that ramy does not want letty bc he wants robin

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Hey guys...is ramy technically robins dead wife
ik i sound like a broken record but i NEED non-bengalis to understand why ramy being fluent in urdu instead of bangla is so *bangs head against wall* RAHHHHHHH
@where-is-my-bed i was going to reply in the comments section but it got too long and i wanted to share my response with everyone as well (bc i clearly can't shut up abt this LMAO)
ramy is from kolkata (calcutta in the book) which, despite still being nationally indian, is culturally bengali. even tho a lot of bengalis including kolkata bengalis happen to know urdu from various sources, bangla was and is the main language there. native urdu speakers tend to be more densely populated further away from kolkata (not to mention current day pakistan which, for anyone that doesn't know the geography, is literally on the opposite end of india).
there are 2 main reasons why ramy having urdu as one of his main languages tied to his identity is so ::bites fist::
back in the mid-19 century (after babel is set), there was this rising rhetoric of urdu being the language of indian* muslims as opposed to hindi for indian* hindus. this is furthered by the hindu-muslim conflict. as ramy is muslim, his main languages being urdu, arabic and persian directly reflect the seeds of this rhetoric. arabic and persian were already 'the languages of islam' and therefore so was urdu, compared to bangla which has strong sanskrit ties.
in the partition of bengal – for the sake of brevity, i leave assam out of this note – the british split bengal to east pakistan (now bangladesh) and west bengal (india, where kolkata is). when bangaldesh was east pakistan, the rhetoric from point 1 intensified to imply bangla as inferior to urdu due to the hinduism embedded in bengali culture. this led to the bengali language movement where bengalis fought for our right to speak bangla.
indian* – in reference to british india specifically, so this includes current day bangladesh and pakistan
ramy's whole identity, not just as an indian muslim, but being from kolkata and yet speaking urdu, literally speaks to babel being a book about languages and racism and colonialism. ramy being forced, like robin with his cantonese, to abandon bangla for the sake of oxford and the british empire's potential exploitation of india's internal conflicts is soooo gut-wrenching when you realise all this historical context
and sure, none of this is explored to this much detail in babel because ramy isn't the main character. but it's just such an interesting choice which very much reflects on the politics of the time and beyond. i don't know, it feels like an intentional choice that i definitely believe happens off-page (and if not, then it's fanfic material)
i went into this book expecting ramy to speak bangla because for once a well-written book by a non-bengali included a bengali character, and even though he doesn't actually speak any bangla, the hints of his bangla being poor (very common experience for british bengalis) and the racism he experienced was so particular UGHH
i can only imagine how ramy would've felt like being teased for not knowing sanskrit despite his appearance, and while the most common non-bengali interpretation of this would be "lol india is so much more diverse ?? not every indian person knows sanskrit you bloody duck", in my eyes, the ignorance would've made me resent the cards i was dealt with. "i could've learnt sanskrit if i was told i should study bangla instead, but no. now i have to feel like an inferior indian AND an inferior muslim for needing to pick a side. a side i did not even want to choose" because before the violent partition, bangla and bengali culture showed us that hindus and muslims could coexist
and like babel demonstrates clearly with the opium plot line, how the british grew it in kolkata so they could drug china, and how they tore robin and ramy apart by force, the british also don't want hindus and muslims to come together. they treated us both so horribly under their rule and to make sure we didn't fight back, they made us fight each other. yes, we were already fighting each other before, but not unlike any other nation. the violence we're seeing now was amplified by the british for their gain alone
ik i sound like a broken record but i NEED non-bengalis to understand why ramy being fluent in urdu instead of bangla is so *bangs head against wall* RAHHHHHHH
my problem is that I think too much about my personal friend Rami Mirza bc imagine that: a beautiful and cute twink is always by your side, and you can't touch or kiss him bc of his slow ass. i feel so bad i wouldn't be that strong.
Some people seem to misunderstand that Kuang is painting Robin’s self-sacrifice as noble, when I really didn’t read it that way. If anything it’s emphasized that he was looking for an opening, a justifiable reason to take the ‘easy way out’, as Ramy put it. He even admits that Ramy was right. Robin’s death is a tragedy not because it’s righteous self sacrifice but because he couldn’t overcome his own itch to martyr himself rather than live in shame and grief and discomfort, yet persevering. People think the protagonist has to be on a pedestal to be worthy of being the protagonist, but Kuang really doesn’t try to put Robin on a high horse. Before they join the effort to stop the war against China, before they seize Babble, Robin is a coward. He’s frightened, complacent, and indecisive. Afterwards, before the Westminster Bridge falls, he’s reckless, combative, impatient, and borders on uncompromising because he’s now fully converted to Griffin’s philosophy of violence. But he’s never some knight in shining armor. He’s not some shining voice of reason or revolutionary strategy. He’s just a scared boy. That’s what he is. That’s what he’s always been.

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im reading babel by rf kuang and good god, are robin and ramy gay or am i simply too yaoi pilled because what the actual fuck is this. rebecca you have some explaining to do
worse
I feel like a fraud reading Babel, for many reasons, but the most recent one being that I only noticed that the footnotes were being used in a similar way as translation notes are because of manga and not anything scholarly like many would notice.
But on another note, that is such a beautiful way to use such a thing, something typically added when there isn't an easy way to explain what something is in a new language because they had no reason to describe it in the original text, and instead use that to describe bits and pieces of what Robin has experienced in life because he doesn't see any reason to explain it further. I can really see why Babel is so popular.