Please tell me your thoughts on v5 sabbat
Okay so all in all, one of the more organized v5 books. I still need to tab out important concepts and rules, but I should only need about 5 tabs versus my core rulebook of 42 tabs, the Anarchs with 20, and the Camarilla book with 14.
Overall, I enjoyed reading this sourcebook and I cannot wait to utilize it in my chronicles. I think there were a lot of questions I got answers, there are a few I wish they elaborated on further. The big things that we get to see are 5 Paths, the history of the Sabbat in context of V5, and how the Sabbat is both falling apart and thriving in the fires of their Gehenna War. IMO, you should definitely read this if you are playing V5. Idc whether you pirate it, buy it, download it, borrow it from a friend. Its worth the read and there is so much I could write about. I didn’t want to summarize the topics too much, just present whats new, omitted, or revamped. My final point is that its your chronicle at the end of the night, and this is 130 pages of content to make your story go from “aha and now the sabbat are here lol” to “OH SHIT THE SABBAT ARE HERE”
Point 1: This book is not to create playable sabbat characters. Point 2: There are a couple of things about sabbat politics and in-fighting that are left vague, up to storyteller interpretation, or completely omitted. Point 3: I WAS RIGHT HAHA! Canon Validation! Point 4: Thinblooded Sabbat motherfuckers. Point 5: Burn Brightly (same as above exerpt)
Point One: I think the thing that excited me but may disappoint some fans is the fact that the sourcebook is NOT intended to create playable sabbat characters. In v5, they've returned to their role of the Boogeyman, the thing that both the Anarchs and Camarilla can rally against. It's primarily a tool to create effective antagonists and set dressing for Chronicles that have conflict with the sabbat. It also illustrates the absolute desperation the sabbat feels in the 21st century- and rather than shutting down and dying, they are fired up. Because they don't know how to die quietly. Because they have nothing to fucking lose.
While the purpose of this book isn’t to build sabbat characters, that doesn’t mean the source material cannot be used to amplify characters. They do provide some very powerful and fascinating disciplines for the storyteller and players to use. These disciplines really highlight how the sabbat handle problems- by using their powers of the blood. They are incredibly overt and very devastating abilities. These feel much more geared to be utilized by a storyteller, and give very intense imagery during specific scenes in a chronicle. In comparison to some of the core rulebook disciplines, they feel somewhat overpowered. But that’s the point, right?
In addition to disciplines, the book discusses the 5 most common paths among the Sabbat. I have discussed with my players for my upcoming Midnight Roads Chronicle that they may opt to take a Path rather than touchstones and convictions. HOWEVER, I stress to my players and storytellers, that they will be operating on a completely different moral code than other players. And ultimately the coterie must work together. I cannot allow one player to be on the Path of Cathari, one on The Path of Power and the Inner Voice, and the others to be on humanity. I anticipate that will not last more than a session- as the morals of the Paths and Humanity actively conflict. Additionally, the morals of the Paths are to tempt and control- staining those on humanity to their filthy level. If my players want to be on paths, their codes must at least work with the chronicle tenets for all players.
I think an aspect a player(s) can utilize is perhaps a character atoning from a path and returning to humanity. After all, the book showcases how the sabbat has somewhat fallen apart, and their scouts are usually the first to flip to anarch or autarkis. However, the book also highlights how the sabbat tactfully strips away any sense of self and identity from their victims. They are nothing without the sabbat. And the society of kindred actively hates them and fears them for what they were. There is no support. The process of switching from a Path back to Humanity is excruciating. It is not impossible but there is no set mechanical process. But without guidelines to chain the beast, the vampire becomes a wight. And wights are killed. No True Sabbat would turn their back on their Path, as this would incur a Wild Hunt. True Sabbat don’t really see a point in rehabilitating lost members either. However, by V5 canon, guess which clan has tossed aside its Antitribu title? The Lasombra. They have joined the ranks of the Camarilla. By that fact alone, we know it is possible for a portion of kindred not only succeeded in getting off their Path and onto another, AND ALSO they successfully convince the Camarilla that they have left the Sabbat behind. The other clan is the Tzimisce, younger flesh crafters are more often vibing with the Anarchs. I think a fascinating story could be a group of PCs, once indoctrinated by the Sabbat or just the wayward childer halfway beaten into the full Paths, now struggling to redefine themselves and live as creatures of the Night, but maybe not the way their sires and pack deemed them creatures. I think that is a fantastic goth and hope-punk chronicle waiting to happen.
In conclusion on Point one, its a very good read for what they have to say about the Sabbat, but understanding that it is primarily a tool for storytellers and maybe a light spice for players is critical.The biggest takeaway would be remembering that if the player characters know too much about the Sabbat, they stop being scary. Storytellers need their sabbat to be pushing boundaries and shaking the status quo, but in a way that is completely unrelatable and alien to the Camarilla and Anarchs. Its not the gore and games and shovelheading that is the most terrifying- its not knowing why they do this.
Point Two: Whats Missing?
We all know that things in V5 have been streamlined and simplified. This means that Paths are incredibly watered down- detailing only a page on each one provided. The ten tenets that each Path had is compressed into 3, matching the ruling for convictions in v5 (no touchstones for the sabbat, for obvious reasons). Older editions of VTM would have pages and pages of tiny-ass print on different Paths, which ones adhere better to certain clans, which ones work better with sabbat, which ones the Old Camarilla favor. Gone. I don’t think this is a bad thing. It does exactly as the V5 writing team intends- streamlines. I was able to clearly understand how each path operates, what their views are, and how a pack following each path likely plays in the Night.
While things are streamlined, I think they do a decent job on explaining the hypocrisy laced history of the sabbat. I do miss the nuance of POV characters from older books. It really grasped the depth of characters at different power levels for the sabbat. The 3-night-old shovelhead might think about history differently than the Path of Caine Pack Priest (despite the Pack Priest’s rituals and efforts). The Scout and court spy of the Sabbat knows they go weeks without observing vaulderie, and finds their withdrawals on their Pack to be the worst part of the job- but ultimately they are still loyal to their cause. Its towards the back of the book that they’ve provided a few POV writings- in the same stylistic manner as the Anarch book. What’s different is how concise they are. The Anarch book is riddled with tons and tons of different perspectives, highlighting how each of them have a different idea about how to be an Anarch. The Sabbat ones are observations from outside perspectives, small notes, and escapees that reinforce the boogeyman trope: “its kill or be killed.” I wouldn’t consider it lacking in comparison to the Anarch books POV writings which felt like a clusterfuck of information. I think its interesting how there seems to be so few writings available, even from the Noddist scholars, and that everything is done on the Pack level, making each Pack unique and simultaneously the same.
I think another thing that old players may find absent in this book is the notion of Infernalism. Older players know that the sabbat is vehemently against anything to do with demons and demonic worship (aside from some set dressing, courtesy of the Path of Cathari). It was the Black Hand that hunted down such violators. In v5, the Black Hand is the term that they are using to call all of the sabbat. Now this could be because the turnover rate for sabbat is incredibly high, and the Black Hand stopped being a special ops and just became what the fledglings called it. They still have Wild Hunts, and its a bit simplified. Ultimately, they are called when someone betrays the Sabbat- which that can be flipping to the Cam or sucking demon dick. Whichever comes first. The threat of a Wild Hunt isn’t likely to occur to a player character, unless they have betrayed the sabbat. More likely, they are gonna be swept up in or simply observe the carnage, as the bloodthirsty Cainites bulldoze through anything to get to their traitor.
On the subjects of Wild Hunts, they did explain why certain Ritae are falling out of fashion. As their Hot War rages, Games of Instinct are becoming less prominent. They don’t need to satiate their beast with Demolition Derby or Ambulance if they are actively chasing an Antedilluvian. Where Games of Instinct still get practiced are when they are waiting. If they successfully took over a Camarilla domain, theres gonna be down time after all the feasting and cruel frolicking. They’re gonna get bored. With the Gehenna War raging, they are more likely to move onto the next place and suck up all the resources than to stay. Additionally, the Games directly put targets on their backs for hunters. They are obvious and bloody. In my opinion, the only game that is still widely played is Dog Tagging, where they tag the ear of a Lupine and turn it loose. Lupines tend to be outside cities, which in turn, tend to be less surveyed by constant technology, and the influence of the Camarilla is stretched thin or nonexistent. Palla Grande is one of my favorite Ritaes described to me, and it makes sense that this is also dwindling in popularity. With high turnover rates and abandoned Sabbat domains, Palla Grande just cant be as big. And the whole point is for it to be a mockery of the lavish Camarilla Elysiums.
One of the major things I think was disappointingly vague is the Sabbat and the Masquerade. From what I understand the Sabbat consider the Masquerade to be a shield to the Antedilluvians. In order to strip the third generation bare, the Masquerade has to go. So why do they bother with a Cleaner? Why do they try to keep themselves somewhat hidden? The book doesn’t really go into detail on this. I had to dig through older editions of the books, namely Midnight Siege, to figure it out. My and my partner’s interpretation is that Pragmatism beats Dogma. While its true the Masquerade has got to be destroyed, doing so plays right into the hands of the hunters. Now some Pack Priests will spin this back to dogma, that the Hunters too are controlled by the Antedilluvians to hold the Sabbat back until they can rise to their full power. The other interpretation is the masquerade is kept on the Camarilla and Anarch turf. When operating in the cold war, the Sabbat are at a disadvantage. The Camarilla have the connections, power, and influence to steer any story the way they wish. The Masquerade, in an ironic way, protects them as they scout and plot in their Cold War. If they are discovered before they are ready to Crusade, the Siege is almost certainly lost.
Point Three: HAHA I WAS RIGHT! CANON VINDICATION!
There were several times when reading this sourcebook that my eyes widened and I shouted “AHA! I KNEW IT!” and my very tired partner would smile and give me a thumbs up.
One of the major things that made me screech was the implication that the Beckoning isn’t just to the cradle of life in Mesopotamia. I had the notion that if the Antediluvians were all powerful blood gods, on power tiers rivaling the Abyssals of Exalted, why would they all seat themselves along the Tigris and Euphrates like a cheap child’s “dig up a fossil” toy? Easy answer. They wouldn’t. The founders of the clans embraced and scattered to the wind, letting their lines branch out. If they were awake, supposedly the Earth would know. If they are asleep, they are soon to awake. I had written that there were about three separate calls occurring. The first was the canon one, calling to the two rivers, amidst all the conflict between Israel and Palestine. The two I had written were in the Gulf of Mexico, under the Yucatan Channel, and Ukraine- with most of the conflict in Kiev. And son-of-a-bitch I WAS RIGHT. The book gives a few POV writings. One details a chat to a supposed Baron, detailing how they have observed the Sabbat pursuing something into the Siberian Tundra. The other is in Mexico City. The Sabbat Book purposefully leaves the nature and location of the Antediluvians in the hands of the storyteller, as it is the backdrop to a chronicle. After all, one of the major parts of the horror of VTM is how unknowable the Antedilluvians are. The more characters or NPCs understand and share about these entities and antagonists, the less scary they are.
I had always pictured the sabbat having a rough time in the last 2 decades. When combining V5 and old lore, i, and some others, inferred that the sabbat got the wind taken out of its sails after the Week of Nightmares. After all, this is what they were embraced to do! Defeat the Antedilluvians. And when one finally rose, they were powerless. They were absolutely curb stomped by Zapathasura’s raw power. The fucking mages had to defeat it. The book never explicitly states it was this that fragmented the Sabbat, but rather one of several factors to push it to its limits. Its the hyper-surveillance of this new technological era and the vigilance of hunters that is claiming their unlives with haste. Its the front lines of the Gehenna War that is delivering them to final death. Its the front lines of the cold war, disputes in Camarilla and Anarch territory, that are delivering them to final death. The book illustrates how the sabbat sees this as their time to shine. All these signs are pushing them to go harder better faster stronger, despite their numbers dwindling. And numbers don’t really matter... they can just make more. I had sort of neglected the act of shovelheading as a tool for creating more soldiers for their Hot War. This was because I couldn’t grasp how they would manage to feed so many new hungry mouths at a time. The book goes into detail on Hunting Ritae of Packs, which explains not only how they are sometimes hit and run feeding, but have Cleaner roles to hide the carnage, or just leave no scraps behind (shudder). Or how they just move on, leaving absolute messes for everyone else to deal with.
Point Four: THINBLOOD SABBAT MOTHERFUCKERs
Now this was a surprise! I had always considered the thinblooded to be disregarded by the Sabbat, since they are literally heralds of Gehenna and also too weak to use their own powers. However, The V5 team threw a curveball at me. And I am so so so delighted by it.
The sabbat do have a might is right attitude, and if a thinblood can prove they deserve to keep their blood, the Pack will respect it. Diablerie is a sacrament, so its probable that some thinbloods don’t stay thinbloods too long. However, there is a new point. Since the sabbat value their clanlessness, the thinbloods are a perfect embrace- clan free! Automatic antitribu. They don’t possess any of the telltale clan signs and abilities, they are so separated from the Antedilluvians that they sometimes will refuse diablerie to not taint themselves with the curses of other bloodlines. These thinbloods are utilizing hunting Ritae to lure hunters into unsafe havens, laying traps for Camarilla and Anarchs in disputed domains, and making themselves sunlight bombs with alchemy. They are calling themselves the New Dawn and MMMM CHEFS KISS.
The Path they have provided is called the Path of the Sun. In the eyes of older Pack Priests, this is not a true path. It is exclusively practiced among the young Sabbat. Although this path cannot serve the more blood potent sabbat memebers, the point is that the thinblooded find power and drive through their uncodified tenets. They are still defining what it means to be the Sabbat’s future, not resounding echoes of its past. They fully believe the reason the bane of sunlight does not affect them is because they bear no mark of the Third Generations treachery. Some Caitiff and Cainities with high blood potency see this path as a way to cleanse themselves of the taint of their sires and the Antedilluvian’s blood. The Path encourages camaraderie that is just human enough to blend subtly with the other Kindred and Thinbloods. They are quick to prostelytize to other thinbloods, and with combination of “never go hungry with us” sabbat rhetoric, the Duskborn would quickly join.
Burning Brightly- Wrap Up
All in all, you should definitely read this if you are playing V5. Idc whether you pirate it, buy it, download it, borrow it from a friend. Its worth the read and there is so much I could write and write about. I didn’t want to summarize the topics too much, rather just present whats new, omitted, or revamped. My final point is that its your chronicle at the end of the night, and this is 130 pages of content to make your story go from “aha and now the sabbat are here lol” to “OH SHIT THE SABBAT ARE HERE”
Thank you for reading <3




























