I'll interrogate the cat

Q: Misha said a couple of times that, as seasons went on, that you both kind of played into the romantic undercurrent of your relationship a bit more. I was wondering, for you, Jensen, was there a moment where you started to see more of the validity in Destiel, or was it after you were informed about the confession, or before, or how did that happen really?

Jensen: Did Jensen ever see validity in Destiel?

Q: Yes.

Jensen: No.

Misha: What do you mean by that question exactly?

Q: When were you like, oh, well maybe I had kind of played into it at some point, or maybe when you were watching the series and you were like, oh I can see that people, that a lot of people actually see this romantic story playing out.

Jensen: Yeah look, I don’t, I’m not condemning that notion, I mean for those fans and that kind of fanfiction, that- great! Like that’s, it inspired people to create their own kind of fiction. The operative word in that fanfiction is fiction. And so, and I mean, look, it wasn’t just, the- I- the writers were paying attention, the producers were paying attention, we knew it was building (?) out there. Like it was, that was, that was never the story that I was, that I was telling with Dean. There was, the love that existed between Dean and Cas was a brotherhood. And, I mean there’s fanfiction about Sam and Dean being romantic ? [audience groans]

Q: Let’s not equate that.

Jensen: But it’s the same, it, I mean, you know, [audience shouts ‘nooooo’] ? it is fanfiction, right? The wincest, there’s a name for it.

Misha: I think that over the years, the existence of that, like, subnarrative in the fandom was definitely something that the writers picked up on. And it was definitely alluded to, like there were winks and nods in the script over the years, for sure. But the actual, like, romantic pivot, the non-brotherly love that Cas felt for Dean, it was expressed in that last scene, was something that was conceived of in the last season. Like, that was Bob Berens script, it was Bob Berens very clear, like, what if we actually had Cas realize that this was what was going on? But, I never thought that that was gonna be a part of the, an actual part of the show, until Bob Berens, like, came up with that story and those words, which were very different from the sort of like wink and nod stuff that had happened before. So that was I think also kind of like, kind of like Dean’s death at the end, which was the unexpected twist. I think certainly for me, that was the unexpected twist, like I was like, whoa, we’re really, we’re really gonna do this? And by the way, for me, that was incredibly gratifying thing. I was like, this is so brave and bold and awesome, to have this character, who’s been in this like very traditional, kind of like macho show be able to say to the main character of the show ‘I love you’ in an I love you way, and have that, that like, be accepted. Like, Dean didn’t, wasn’t like whoa whoa whoa, dude, whoa back off. You were like, it was like this incredibly, I think like inclusive and amazing little moment where it was like, that is okay, you know what I mean? And for that to be okay, for that context in that show, I think- gay representation, it was like really awesome to so many people. So I was like, so happy that Bob took us in that direction, and I’m so happy to be able to do it, but it was also not, like I think a lot of fans think like, oh they were cooking this up all along, this is what, this was what the undercurrent was all the time.

Q: For some writers maybe.

Misha: Well maybe, but it was never, that was never conveyed to us, and my expectation was that, that isn’t how it’s gonna end. I did not think that that’s where Cas was going. And when it happened, it was the unexpected twist as far as I was concerned.

Q: Yes, and as you said a couple of years ago, there was love in Dean’s eyes.

Misha (stuttering): Dean was expressing not, like a reciprocated romantic love, that is very, like that is very clear. He didn’t say I love you too, the same way

Q: He didn’t need to.

Misha: But it was like, that’s my perception of how Dean expressed-

Jensen: That’s why I said what I said about Destiel, cause that’s the inclusive of two characters, when really it was one character. And in order to have the two character in that name, you would need reciprocation. And Dean was not reciprocating that, but he was accepting that. And that’s the difference.

Misha: And we talked about it before we filmed it, and it was like a, like a loving acceptance, and that is, I think, also just like, that’s such a beautiful thing, because that could so easily not have been how that landed.

Jensen: Absolutely.

Misha: How that was even played. You could have played that in a different way, right? And that would’ve told a totally different story. So, um, I think it was like, I think it was very brave of the show to do it, and I’m very glad that my character’s swan song told that story, and I think there was a big fan backlash, like why didn’t Dean reciprocate? And I was like, that’s not the point. I mean I remember getting, like, angry at and having fights with fans because it was like, that’s not the point, the point is that Cas got to express his truth! And that it was accepted! Which is a fucking beautiful thing! You know? Anyway…

Jensen: You know it’s interesting, cause I thought I played that moment as like more familial situation, like, you know, somebody was coming out to their parents, or their family. And it’s like, it’s like you come out, in my head, it was like, come out to your father. All you want is for him to be like accepting of that. You don’t want him to then go, you know what, I am too, you know what I mean? So I thought that was an important moment for both characters to be like, Cas had his moment but then also had Dean be like, I understand and I accept you. And I think that was the powerful moment. It wasn’t the ‘Oh he didn’t reciprocate it’, and this has been the underlying thing all along, cause it wasn’t, I never played that in 15 seasons. But Misha’s right and in the Dean’s story it would’ve been very easy for Dean to just be like ‘Oh, what?’ and that’s not what we did.

 Misha: And there’s like, without ?, a reciprocated, like romantic love kind of response. There is love in that! Like, like you would to a family member, and that was like, I don’t know, for me that was the most poignant possible resolution there. Because if Dean had been like, yeah me too, I wouldn’t have, no one would, I wouldn’t have believed that,

Jensen: I wouldn’t have believed-

Misha: For me. We knew that character for 15 years, and that’s not, that wasn’t Dean. But it was believable, very believable for Cas. ? Like that character had become also Castiel’s whole tether to humanity and in the whole human family. So it was like that really deep, important bond there for him. It’s interesting to unpack.