woodswit

there are some basic tips that I won’t repeat here since you probably already are aware. IMO the rules for dialogue will largely be dictated by the rules you’ve set for the world you’re building. in a story, dialogue can trigger the next action/scene, inspire change, or bring the reader up to speed on something (among many other things), so knowing what kind of world you’re in and what your rules are will act as both guard rails and inspiration for how dialogue should do these things.

as an example it irks me when dialogue is too pointed or tidy in a contemporary romance (the world is already arranged for a cute storm in a snow globe; why is everyone also perfect? what is the point of setting perfect machines free in a simple world?), but I’m fine with it in a high fantasy (quick communication of symbols between archetypes is expedient in an overloaded story).

(I will also say that I do research for a living and interview transcripts REALLY drive home how rare it is for normal humans to speak in full, eloquent yet direct sentences… so I’m probably hypersensitive to this.)

for me it’s not just about genre; it’s more about what the engine of your story is and what you want to do with the genre rules. so for example a slice of life where the author wants to nod to magical realism while never actually using it will have different dialogue rules than a slice of life where the author wants to discuss how impossible it is to know our fellow humans. In both stories the dialogue CAN be a lot more strange and unexpected, your word selection can have a lot more freedom, etc. - but how that plays out on the page will be specific to the story.

and here is my controversial take: It doesn’t need to be what the reader expects or what the reader wants/thinks is good. It just has to work in concert with everything else you’re doing to build the universe and experience. if you’re creating a mystery where you want the world to feel bigger, lusher, and more complex than the protagonist grasps, you might have side characters use esoteric words here and there that they might not typically use. it’s like an extra stitch of a color that wasn’t in the main palette but when you step back it adds dimension and changes the tone, or quietly signals that the rules of the game may be different than expected. the reader might pick up on it as “wrong” but that’s what you wanted.

dialogue is a litmus test for me, in that if I know my characters and they’re ready to be played with, I don’t overthink the word choice or rhythm and it just comes to me; rounds of editing allow me to add in those further stitches. this isn’t true for everyone and it’s not necessarily a sign that your dialogue is “good,” or that your characters have distinct voices (which is another aspect of dialogue that will be shaped by your universe’s rules, since the voices you need will be partly dependent on the end result you’re looking for). it’s just, for ME, a sign that I’ve done my homework sufficiently… or that I have more universe development to do. so if I’m thinking too hard about dialogue when drafting, it’s generally a sign that I’m not ready to write.

this is a lot like the advice around using adverbs and filler words: it’s not that you can’t use them, it’s that they have an effect and it’s worth it to be aware of the effect. if your dialogue is the only thing that ever triggers a plot point, it’s possible that you have too much of it - otoh this may be what you’re going for. if your dialogue spans many pages and has many characters speaking, you may be suffering from “group chat syndrome” - otoh this may be one of your story’s quirks that hooks the right readers and turns off the wrong ones.

yeah and I think the role of the audience has changed so much. a lot of these show runners are on social media and even if they weren’t, there will be marketing teams for the streaming services who are paying attention to critical and fan reception to episodes and seasons and that will inform decisions. some of the worst writing mistakes I’ve made were because I either got input on an idea that wasn’t baked yet, or I tried to imagine what input I’d get on said idea, and then caved to that.

so I wonder how often showrunners fall victim to this, where the reception of a creative choice drives them away from their original intent. I’ve become incredibly guarded with my writing because it’s just too hard to filter useful feedback from what amounts to differences in taste or vision, and it’s just not worth it to me. I’d rather have something that is potentially shitty than something that bent to someone else’s taste - but I also know that at the end of the day I’m weak and want validation so it’s better for me to just not expose my stuff until it’s done and there’s no room for me to pull back on my original vision. I absolutely could NOT be a TV writer!!!!

yeah i think writing television is a cursed art because you're constantly laying out random breadcrumbs with the assumption that a different writer may or may not pick them up in a future season. i can't think of too many shows where i felt like the sum of the show's parts was equal to its whole (happy valley is the only one that comes to mind at the moment) - but for a longer series like ST, there's almost no way to win.

i've heard that there was strong disagreement from the creators in how to end the series. it's a shame. i was never going to be interested in it because i don't care to follow teenaged characters, but it seemed like they had a lot of compelling characters and dynamics to start with.

re: the queerbaiting, this is a very interesting topic to me. obviously there's a line where the dynamic goes from compelling to clickbait. this is even weirder and harder to parse with teenaged characters. it's one thing i HIGHLY suspect will be terrible in winds of winter (if it ever gets published, unlikely i guess). based on the sample chapters, seems like GRRM wants to explore Arya's burgeoning sexuality and you could say it's exploitative of his audience (the SHOCK of it!!) but it feels a bit more like we're just walking in on him doing something private. in other stories, like euphoria, the exploration of teen queerness feels both exploitative/baiting and also fetishized. and yet there are stories out there that should be told, for example of two teen boys who maybe have a something between them that they can't identify or explain but maybe never gets acted on/fulfilled. i don't really have a point here, except that i feel like this is a topic that middle aged/elderly men need to just set aside for a while.

I’m still in happy disbelief that my Wild are moving forward. (It’s been 11 years since we moved to the next round.)

CONGRATS TO BOTH OF US!!!

I watched a few of your games—SO fun, that was a good series.

YES