I Stride At The Horned Master's Side

I am alterhuman and have a history of delusions, and I spent my formative years in the p-shifter community, so I'm not talking out of my ass when it comes to this stuff.

MANY people who consider themselves p-shifters or mythicals are relatively young, I was a p-shifter at 12, and got specifically involved with the mythical community at 13 via grow wings.

People of that age range are more prone to magical thinking, ESPECIALLY when you're coming from a bad or unstable home life like I was. The need for an escape + magical think easily feeds delusions.

I spent my teenage years, even after I stopped involving myself with those communities, fearing for my life about awtok because deep down I still thought it was a real group that existed. I also, even after leaving said communities, struggled with p-shifter based delusions, and in turn, worsened species dysphoria.

My nonhumanity existed prior to my delusions, but my relationship to it was fundementally changed in an unhealthy manner during my teenage years due to people feeding into the magical thinking and delusions of a vulnerable young teenager.

Sure, ones subjective reality may have p-shifts or something, your experience is yours. However with the shared reality we all experience, aka capital R Reality, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Every time a P-shifter or mythical is asked to provide evidence that this stuff is occuring in our shared reality, there is ALWAYS an excuse as to why they can't.

In case anyone needed it for anything.

I really loved digging in this topic. I viewed it as an interesting myth to play with, to spook naughty alterhuman kids boogeyman style, you know?

Endels are, by the nature of it being a term tied to delusions, stating that they are experiencing delusions that affect their identity. P-shifters are claiming it's actually real. P-shifters are making a physical claim; endels and clinical zoanthropes are not. These are two wildly different things and I'm not honestly sure why you would ever treat them as though they're equivalent?

To expand this a bit to an edge case that I've seen a couple times recently and which I suspect prompted this line of thinking (please correct me if I'm wrong, of course, but it's the only way I can imagine these two things being treated as even a little bit the same thing): In the cases where someone who knows they're experiencing delusions is "reclaiming" the word p-shifter:

you can't "reclaim" a term that never belonged to you; you're just trying to change the meaning of the word entirely to something it's never meant,

the word is still making it sound like you're making a physical claim, because that's all it's ever meant, and I am thus going to assume you mean that until proven otherwise and you shouldn't be surprised I'm doing so, and perhaps most importantly,

this is a word that has been widely used to manipulate and harm people by promising no, physical shifting is real, you just can't do it because you haven't tried hard enough and if you listen to me and do everything I say you'll get there someday. Reclaimed terms are terms that have been used in a derogatory sense toward the group of people that is now reclaiming them. "P-shifter" is not a term that has ever been used that way, it's the self-identifier of a group of people that has historically been responsible for rampant manipulation and abuse of young therians and otherkin. This is admittedly not the best parallel because of the degree of inherently meaning something harmful being different, but it's a little like trying to "reclaim" the term TERF by changing it to mean something somewhat similar but ultimately different, and then being surprised when people assume you're a transphobe and treat you as such. Page just wrote a good post about this here that put it better than I can.

I'm going to post strawberrybabydog's tags here because it's honestly an extremely worthwhile read and brings up some excellent points that hadn't occurred to me since I'm an undel:

I welcome the growing acceptance of "weird" or "scary" folk in the nonhuman and alterhuman communities: the factkin, the object- and conceptkin and of course, physical nonhumans. I myself am a werewolf holothere, most of our system are holotheres and I interact with other physical nonhumans on a regular basis.

But recently, I have been observing a push towards the acceptance and "reclaim" of the word p-shifter/p-shifting - and this is worrying me. I want to write an elaborate post, shedding light on the roots and origins of this term and why I think it isn't a good choice to label yourself this way. I will back my claims up as good as I can, but there are quite obviously no studies on this and the general amount of archived sources is also quite low, because it is in the nature of toxic and manipulative behaviour to happen in the privacy of (long gone) servers or in DMs. So, I will have to resort to use personal experiences and anecdotes as my main sources - that's not ideal, I am aware.

Also, two things before you reblog, comment or otherwise agree/disagree with me: 1) none of this is at all about the validity and subjective realness of individual experiences, only about this specific term being used; and 2) please make sure you read this carefully and wholly. If I find you just try to twist my words, I will just ignore and block you. I also mean exactly what I say, there is no need to look for an "undertone" or "hidden opinions".

All of my sources will be linked at the end in chronological order of usage. Footnotes are numbered in [brackets], scroll to the end to find them.

1) Roots, original usage and meaning

Pinpointing the exact time at which the term was coined is pretty much impossible, but the earliest mentions I found go back to the early 2000s - namely, there is Swiftpaws Real guide to P-shifting from 2004 which mentions the term p-shifting in a way that suggests it has been more or less widely known at that time. Acoording to the alterhuman wiki, the term originated alongside the therian-community in the early 2000s, even on the same website as they did (but it doesn't mention which website that was). Based on what I've observed with my own eyes on this website [1] and backed up by various forum posts I found, the term p-shifting always referred to those who claimed the following things: 1) They have literal, tangible, objectively Real [2] physical shapeshifting abilities, 2) they do not experience delusions at all [3]. Finding old posts by p-shifters is almost impossible, I know a lot of blogs no longer exist, so I have to go off my memory here and also what @a-dragons-journal (hope you don't mind the ping!) has talked about on their blog many times, but I also know that a lot of them claimed to be able to teach others how to shift [4], which usually resulted in pack-like structures, with a few elite leaders who also functioned as "teachers". Another claim I have seen many times is how they had to prepare for a "war" or straight-up "the end of the world", but I have to admit, the last few points are not something every p-shifter I've seen talks about.

To hopefully provide some solid proof, have qoutes from a few self-proclaimed p-shifters:

by @/thefirstfamilypack: "We are not people with lycanthropy [CLCZ], we are actual physical shifters. This is a totally different community than those who have clinical lycanthropy or mentally "identify" with someone that's not "human" such as otherkins. We never claimed to be that, that's a whole different thing." "If you don't have the genes for it then sorry you're not a shifter."

by @/h-micideinthemirror (apparently deactivated, found a reblog of a post by them): "I'm so fucking tired of seeing therians talk shit about actual nonhumans [...] I'm not delusional [...] I'm just a person, who happens to be a wolf."

by @/harloqui: "However, I 100% agree with the message towards delusional alterhumans. [...] What shifters can do you cannot [...]"

by @/stonedlycanthrope (as a reply to an ask about how they knew they aren't experiencing delsusions): "I had 2 friends tell me the exact same thing [...] I had shifted in my sleep and [...] she stepped on my tail trying to get over me is what she told me." -> this is exactly what I mean when I say they make claims their shifting is Real.

There are so so many more, just go to thefirstfamilypack's blog and dive deeper from there. What you will find is the exact same rethoric I talked about, over and over again: "We are ACTUAL nonhumans, we are NOT delusional, we can ACTUALLY shift, etc etc" - I hope you also noticed the casual arrogancy towards otherkin and therians.

In conclusion: p-shifting originally referred to tangible, Real physical shifting, while vocally, aggressively excluding delusional folk and looking down on them (and otherkin as well).

I might add more on how exactly folk were hurt in these packs later on, but currently don't have the energy for that. I believe outlining the inherently probelmatic stances of the og shifter communities should be enough to support my point for the time being.

2) Why you can't reclaim the term

Now let's get to the actual point of this post - the push towards reclaiming the term p-shifter. By definition, reclaiming a term describes "a word that was at one time pejorative but has been brought back into acceptable usage, usually starting within its original target, i.e. the communities that were pejoratively described by that word [...]" - in simpler terms, the community that was originally negatively targeted by the term in question can reclaim it by using it in positive way to describe themselves. This is by definition not possible with the term p-shifter: in order for delusional folk to reclaim this term, it would have had to be a deragatory word to describe delusional folk, which it never was. Yes, the community looked down on delusional people, but the term itself actively excluded CLCZ and similar beings. Generally speaking, the term was never a slur used for anyone, it was always a positive and self-choosen term, created by the community for themselves. You cannot reclaim this term by definition.

"But what if we just change the definition to something positive, so anyone can use it?"

That is not a good idea for several reasons. I want to specifically quote @/a-dragons-journal and @who-is-page (hope you don't mind the ping!) for this one:

a-dragons-journal: "[...]using the word is still making it sound like you're making a physical claim. [...] This is admittedly not the best parallel [...] but it's a little like trying to "reclaim" the word TERF by changing it to mean something somehwat similar but ultimately different, and then being surprised people assume you're a transphobe and treat you as such."

who-is-page: "[...] You can't erase the history of the term [...] and the ways in which it's been used (and, most importantly, continues to be used!) to hurt others. [...] You can't reclaim [...] the terms "anti-otherkin", or the zeta symbol [...] because they're still being used by the cummunities who originally coined them to mean what they were intended to mean. [...] There is no way to seperate the people who are 'reclaiming' it and those who are just... Using it. [...] Also, thinking more on it, it's kind of fucked up for someone to try and steal another communitie's terms and forcibly redefine them? Like, we critcize that all the time in the otherkin and therian cummunities, and that's not exactly a one-way street. [...]"

Please take the time to fully read both of the posts, I have linked them below with everything else!

But they both really get the point accross in my opinion.

I hope now anyone can see why anyone should be wary of those who use p-shifter as a term: either they are completely unaware of the terms history and thus, should really do more research before advocating for the usage of a term they know nothing about. Or, and that's the worse option, they are aware of everything I listed above and either secretly agree with it, or just don't care. And I don't know about you, but I don't want to be associated with beings who advocate for a term that has an inherently harmful, ableist history and is STILL actively used in that way.

Calling me ableist for refusing to accept the usage of this term is absolutely pathetic.

P-shifters have harmed and continue to harm delusional folk, spit down on them, disrespect them and put themselves above them. Why on EARTH would advocating for the usage and acceptance of this term be a positive thing? How would that help?

It won't.

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Footnotes

[1] I joined the community roughly in 2016, most of the posts I saw back then on p-shifters and by p-shifters were from around that or a few years older.

[2] When I write "Real" or "Reality" with a capital R, I am referring to the shared reality all people experience. Unlike subjective reality, you (technically) need to provide proof to claims you make that refer to Reality.

[3] Moreso, they often held very ableistic beliefs, spitting down on "the crazy ones", aka. folk with delusions. They put themselves above them, claiming they were "actually shapeshifting" and not "just delusional".

[4] The rest usually claimed it was based on DNA. I don't know percantages on this, but from what I have seen, I would say at least half of them claimed to be able to teach (or claimed they learned from someone, which supports the same stance from a different pov).

Sources

[Massive TW for Cults, Abuse(Including Digital SA, including COCSA), Delusions + Validation/Encouragement of Delusion, and probably more that I cannot for the life of me think of off the top of my head]

Hello, I'm Phoenix, but you can also call me Silverthorn. I've been in the nonhuman community since 2011-2013, and initially got my start in P-Shifter/Mythical communities, the ones of most note being ArdaErellon, GrowingWings4Life(usually just called Grow Wings.), and other adjacent webs.com forums.

I'll be documenting my experience with the community chronologically to the best of my ability, but do be aware that it may be a bit splotchy, as my memory of it all is a little janky due to the trauma and the fact this occured over 10 years ago now. It is of importance to note: I am neurodivergent, I speak from the perspective of someone who has been dealing with undiagnosed autism since childhood, which in turn, did influence my level of understanding of the world. My memory is also a little messed up due to dissociation from childhood trauma.

2011 - 2012: The Start - My start with P-Shifting began in 6th grade, when I was 11. I had met someone, who I will refer to here as Dragon. Dragon was my closest friend, however this was NOT a good thing. I had begun awakening to my inherent nonhumanity, but you know, when you're young, you'll believe in very fantastical things. Dragon was a P-Shifter, and I thought I was too. This is how our friendship really solidified. What easily could have been innocent schoolyard RP became grounds for abuse, manipulation, etc. Dragon convinced me that everyone hated us, and people would actively run away from me because where I went, she followed. Dragon was notoriously an asshole to others, but she used this to convince me that everyone hated me.

2013-2015: Aka "The Peak". 2013 is when I entered the online P-Shifter scene. Now, I had read websites and guides on p-shifting prior to this, but this is when I actually got INVOLVED so to speak. After reading some of the Maximum Ride books, I began experiencing phantom shifts of wings, which in turn lead to me joining GrowingWings4Life (colloquially known as Grow Wings), a forum on webs.com for Avians and other mythicals. I, obviously, began attempting to grow wings. This is where I met my flock. I've named two of them here before, but for the sake of this post I will be using stand in names. I also got my first scoliosis dx at age 13, during a school evaluation. This will come up again in another section of this post.

Aqua was the first one I met, she was basically a sister to me. She was honestly the first REAL friend I had, to the point where we called eachother sis. It was through her where we met the rest of our flock, albeit most of them would separate except for Red. Red was another one of the flock, unlike the other key members (Julio and Cailen. I WILL namedrop them for the bullshit they did. Julio was 18, and I don't remember Cailen's age but I do believe she was older than me, Aqua, and Red. I think maybe 18 but I'm not Positive.), he was also 13, like Aqua and I.

Julio got kicked from the flock for trying to groom Aqua and I over kik (classic 2013 experience I know), and Cailen went separate ways after a breakup with Red (she did some HORRIFIC things to him, which I will not disclose here other than it being SA) Things with the flock started out good at first, I mean why wouldn't it? Of course, we also learned about Awtok. We genuinely believed in them, and in part, were responsible for bringing knowledge of Awtok to Grow Wings out of sheer FEAR for everyone's saftey. Awtok's chokehold on our flock specifically remained.

Enter G32: Another school friend of mine, and self-professed Keyblade master. Though not an avian and p-shifter like the rest of us, he was part of our flock. I do fully blame myself and take responsibility for getting him involved with the flock + the consequences of doing so. He got involved the summer of 2014, but I had known him prior, and trusted him. G32 was someone we went to for advice and whatnot. In a way, despite Red and I being the leaders of the flock (when we started dating in 2014), I'd consider G32 to be the one pulling everyone's strings.

It was through G32, that Red became convinced he was a monster. Again, wont go into full details but this lead him to spiral into full on delusions. I remember him texting me in a state of extreme distress one night because he had "seen" his "true form" in the mirror. Looking back, this was clearly a hallucination. He ended up having MULTIPLE experiences like this. Now, he had been having some experiences akin to this prior to G32's claims about Red's true nature, but it was only after those that things got as bad as they did, such as full on berseker shifts for what his species was. (According to G32 the species was like an offshoot of the heartless from Kingdom Hearts.)

G32 also, on multiple occasions, forged messages from AWTOK, usually through 3DS swapnote, and then also forged messages from other "keyblade masters" who got involved with the flock via fake phone numbers.

Back to Red, because of the sheer amount of abuse he went through, ended up repeating the cycle of abuse with me. What he did to me was not ok. He had, through Cailen's abuse, become to believe he was possessed by a succubus who was Cailen. This began his manipulation of me, going so far as for this "possession" to lead to basically the Succubus threatening to leave me if I did not engage in sexual text-rp/sexting with Red as a way to prove my love & devotion. It eventually stopped, though i cannot remember what caused it to stop. Again, we both were 14 and severely mentally ill. I DO NOT HOLD THIS AGAINST HIM, AND I FORGIVE HIM FOR THIS. WE BOTH WERE VICTIMS.

Now, Red was VERY remorseful of what had happened, though we never actually talked about it or mentioned it after that, though I wish we did. It pretty much was him just apologizing but not specifying the incident (most because I told him not to), and me not actually letting him confess to what had happened. I wish I would have let him speak, but I was a scared child. Like I said, looking back now, and not out of a place of hurt, I can recognize he and I were both victims of abuse.

Come 2015, shit with G32 really hit the fan. From forging messages from other keyblade wielders turning against the flock, threatening to kill us for being traitors by aligning ourselves with Red, and the like, to then, when we stood up for ourselves, claiming it was all fake and a lie he spun, and then back to threatening us with the keyblade wielders after. It got to a point where it almost became a physical altercation on school grounds the following day. It was after this that things fell apart. The flock stuck together but ultimately separated, with the last I've heard from any of them being in 2016.

2016 & Onward: 2016 I still held onto some P-Shifting beliefs, but had begun to break away from them. It was really only come 2018 that I had fully recognized the nature of my beliefs were steeped in delusion, albeit the occasional relapse into p-shifter thoughts does occur to this day. I'd be lying if I'd said I haven't attempted to p-shift despite knowing and accepting it's impossible.

Now, other things not in this timeline that did happen, but I didn't feel were as interwoven with my flock experience:

ArdaErellon - when GrowWings went down, this kinda became one of the main sites people went to. It's not up anymore but I do remember the admin, Tinnuwen, asking people for their IRL locations, like addresses and whatnot, in order to open portals near them so they could travel to the realm of ArdaErellon.

Razgriz Pack & Other Cyberpacks - I got involved with a cyberpack when I was 13, when I didn't want much to do with them they threatened to send their other werewolves after me lol. I Don't remember if it was Razgriz or a different pack that I was involved in, mostly because I didn't spend much time around them.

Why I'm Making This Post:

I make this post because I've seen a resurgence in the P-Shifter & Mythical communities. Moreso, I've seen this become accepted and welcomed into the alterhuman community, which poses a SIGNIFICANT threat to the saftey and wellbeing of others. I've seen people ACTIVELY encouraging and validating delusions of Clinical Lycanthropes/Zoanthropes, claiming that it is harmless. IT IS NOT, I KNOW FROM EXPERIENCE.

My wing delusions were encouraged, and we avians took any criticism of our attempts as threats and people just wanting to be assholes. Because of the repeated validation of my "physical" wing growth, i actively avoided getting treatment for my scoliosis for over 2 years. Like i said earlier in this post, during an exam at school, they felt my spine was curved. However, because I fully believed I was growing wings, I REFUSED to let my family take me to the doctor, refused to let them get x-rays of me, for fear that they'd discover my wings, because I was a terrified CHILD. This lead to my spine becoming so severely curved that I was at risk of my lungs collapsing. I fear to see what would have happened to me had I not eventually gotten surgery in 2015. The point is, the beliefs involved with subcultures such as p-shifters, holotheres, mythicals, etc. is inherently harmful. The denial to accept ones biological humanity, and the laws of physics that come with it, is a saftey risk. When people speak out about their experiences, they get dogpiled by the physical therian community, and victim blamed. When we explain why these things are harmful, we get accused of a whole slew of things, such as trying to make humans like us, or bring ableist by saying that encouraging delusion is harmful.

Me, Red, and Aqua should NOT have had to live out our teen years in fear of AWTOK, in fear of uncontrollable shifts, in fear of hunters, etc. We should have been able to have our formative teen years be normal. My friend Sundew, also known as @aesthetikins , was there when I was going through all of this, as we met in highschool. E knows first hand the amount of damage this stuff did to me, as again, e was there when it happened.

The survey collected these insights from respondents who themselves had had amputations of human body parts:

None of them complained about the words "phantom limb" being used to refer to sensations of nonhuman body parts. Not a single one of them said it was offensive or should be stopped.

The most common name that they themselves preferred for sensations of nonhuman body parts was "phantom limb."

Most of them said their sensations of nonhuman body parts felt similar to their sensations of lost human body parts.

Of the people who had had human limbs or extremities amputated, 50% said their sensations of nonhuman body parts felt exactly the same as their sensations of lost human body parts.

Where did the idea come from that it's offensive to people who have had amputations or limb differences, then? They're not the ones saying it. It's a baseless rumor, and it's contradicted by the data.

No one should have to disclose their medical history to win an internet argument or to beg permission to use a word for their own personal sensations. Regardless of someone's medical history, if they say that alterhumans should not use the words "phantom limb" for their sensations of nonhuman body parts, that is arguably an anti-alterhuman attitude.

Saying that these don't count as phantom limbs is similar to other tactics of exclusionism, medicalism, and respectability politics that we see dividing many other groups among themselves. Those tactics separate out some experiences from within the wide range of phenomena as being too strange to be taken as seriously as another subset. They're based in fear that the association will cause the more serious subset to be taken less seriously too, and therefore that the more painful cases might not find useful treatments or understanding from the public. In reality, a more complete and useful understanding of a subject comes from looking at its full range: the cases that are painful or consistent with expectations from better-known studies, as well as the cases that are benign or odd.

This is dangerous rhetoric, and if you're on the edges of it, please employ critical thinking and don't let other people (including me) tell you what to believe about your experiences. If you're happy and stable and doing fine, then whatever works for you, works for you. Unconventional beliefs do not automatically mean you need mental health treatment.

But regardless of where you sit on the alterhuman spectrum, if you're not okay and you feel like you need help, don't let it be only from strangers on the internet who (intentionally or otherwise) encourage you not to reach out to anyone but them.

Exactly so, and importantly, if someone else doesn't know they are at risk and they're one of the people watching you talk on Tumblr, you also do not know they are at risk. If you have neither experience with mental health issues nor personal knowledge of a person, you have absolutely no idea whether or not they are at risk.

Being alterhuman does not mean you have some ~special ability~ to interact with wild animals.

DO NOT go touching/chasing/ generally messing with wildlife. You aren't special and you could harm those animals, or be harmed by them. Even small things like bugs can kill you. You aren't immune to rabies.

If you scare wild animals by chasing them for species euphoria or whatever, you can genuinly kill them. Birders have a term for when it happens to birds, its called a Dread Flight. When you unnecessarily scare a wild animal, you are causing it to waste energy it needs to survive. Wildlife can't afford to waste energy. You're enjoyment is NEVER worth disturbing wildlife.

You do not have the training to rescue wild animals just because you're alterhuman. If you don't have the actual training to resue wildlife and you genuinely find an animal in need of help, CALL A FUCKING WILDLIFE REHABILITATION CENTER!!!! It isn't that hard to find the number for your local center and they'll tell you what to do, if anything, and help you if necessary.

I am a horse. I’ve ridden other horses before, albeit as a guest at a ranch within my area. For the times I’ve visited my kind and interacted with them, I’ve done so under clear instruction from those who regularly take care of them, train them and work with them.

At no point have I ever gone out of my way to interact with my kind under the assumption that I’m engaging with them from one species member to another. Nor have I engaged with them under the assumption that— because I too am a horse— I know what I’m doing. This is because I understand mindfulness is of utmost importance. Riding is a privilege, not a right. So is engaging with your local wildlife. Your behavior makes all the difference, and those consequences are often irreversible. Besides, OP already listed some pretty good reasons on why this matters.

I know folks like to get up close and personal with animals. Usually, it’s to pet them, take pictures or act out to get a reaction out of them if they feel emboldened enough. In my case, they won’t hesitate to do so without the animals, the trail boss or any other staff who work with these animals in mind, knowing damn well they don’t know these animals or their behaviors. Sometimes, these folks turn out okay but get a scolding. Sometimes, they go into full Karen Mode because the staff did their job by addressing their guests’ behavior. I’ve seen group members get kicked out because they had the bright idea of trying to sneak inside in the stables nearby. These are individual cases from the ranch near me and the trail rides I’ve been on.

Back when I went on trail rides, I didn’t make any sudden or overly touchy movements while being paired up with a horse. I’d also watch my volume once I was in proximity with my riding companion. Yes, I’m an animal like them but I’m still responsible for my own behavior. Inappropriate behavior could bring immense distress or harm the horse and even myself. The chances of an accident happening is never a guaranteed zero. Moreover, other horses aren’t going to assume I’m socializing with them as another horse. They’re going to assume I’m posing some kind of a threat to them or refusing to back off and act accordingly, which is something that many folks— in AND outside of this community— need to keep in mind. Entitlement to an animal’s space or existence is an issue that a lot of folks have, even if that’s not your intention! To you, it may not come off as entitlement because you’re doing something that brings you some kind of euphoria. Even so, it doesn’t change the fact that you’re using another animal’s existence as an excuse to gratify yourself. That’s not okay.

I understand wanting to express your animality. I understand wanting to be recognized among your kind or among other animals in general. I get it, but you cannot jeopardize the wellbeing of your local wildlife and any other animals for your validation.

Building off this point, you do not want your theriform conspecifics to view you as an animal like them. You may think you do, but you don't.

You do not want a bull to be territorial with you the way it is with theriform bulls. You do not want a horse to be food aggressive towards you. You do not want a cat to slap you (cat scratch fever, hello). You do not want a dog to hump you. You do not want a parrot to mate-bond with you.

You need to keep in mind that theriform animals view you as human, for the sake of your own safety and theirs.

After developing my horse otherlink, and coming to see myself as a horse, my relationship with them changed. But their relationship with me did not. And that's why I've been able to maintain a friendship with a draft horse without getting injured - because she doesn't see me as a strange two-legged horse, she sees me as a little human who's nice to her, that she doesn't need to compete with, and who stops petting her when she gets pushy they way she does with theriform horses

im a sparkle dog therian and it doesnt make me any less of a dog !!!! dont let anyone tell you that your expierences are invalid or that you cant be xyz