Did Jason actually put any thought behind of repercussions of becoming a crime lord on the long run and being involved in organized crime, or was it more of a "teach Bruce a lesson situation"?
Genuinely asking, because I've seen people saying that he made the situation even worse for the Crime Alley as this plan was considered to be doomed to failure in the long term from inception, because it was more about hurting Bruce and killing the Joker than it ever was doing the actual job.
I mean this strategy did not work in real world, but Gotham isn't real either, so I guess this is also a doylist vs watsonian question idk
Controlling crime as a crime lord was Jason’s long term plan, and it didn’t have anything to do with the Joker. People have this impression that because Jason’s plans in the movie revolved around facilitating his ultimatum that the comic went similarly, but that’s just because they’re ignorant of the differences between the two stories.
In the movie Joker was successfully imprisoned in Arkham, and his cell was actually SO secure that Jason had to manipulate Black Mask into freeing him in order to even get the opportunity to abduct him. That’s why he became a crime lord— to put pressure on Black Mask as a competitor until Roman got desperate enough to turn to Joker for help.
In the comic the fact that the danger Joker poses had never successfully been addressed is foundational to the whole plot. News coverage of Joker’s repeated escapes and escapades is what kickstarted Jason’s entire journey to eventually becoming the Red Hood. He found Joker TWICE in Lost Days and UTRH, and both times Joker was just chilling out in the open doing whatever. If comic Jason had thought of it earlier, he could’ve executed the finale confrontation from the minute he came out of the Lazarus pit. There was literally nothing stopping him!
In UTRH Joker was found sitting somewhere in amusement mile. In Lost Days he was in the middle of a weapons deal. In both stories it's just a given (as it always is) that of course he's not in Arkham.
It's not true that being a crime lord was just some sort of warm up torture for Bruce either. Read UTRH carefully, you’ll notice that Jason was actually very hands-off with Bruce prior to their team-up against Deathstroke’s posse. Jason didn’t care to play shy or hide who he was, but also none of his actions centered Bruce. When they met it was coincidental, and whenever Jason lured Batman out it was just to hand off sensitive weapons like the Amazo or that giant shipment of kryptonite. It wasn’t until after Bruce made the decision to help Jason against the posse, when they ended up fighting side by side still perfectly in sync, that Jason seemed to snap. It was only THEN that Jason executed a true blue supervillain hero torture plot.
Looking at the conception of the idea for Red Hood and what Jason has to say for himself, it’s clear that being a crime lord was always supposed to be a long term project. The goal is to "take Gotham from Bruce" but it's not like Jason ever kicked Bruce out of Gotham to crown himself head vigilante. No, Jason's ultimate revenge against Bruce was to come in the form of simply being more successful at helping Gotham than Batman. Despite the edginess... it’s surprisingly altruistic? Like Bruce himself, Jason intended on doing for others what wasn't done for him.
To be clear: that means being someone who will prioritize material change over theoretical boundaries. This is the problem Jason witnessed all the way back during his Robin days in the Dumpster Slasher arc and the Diplomat's Son story. It's also central to how her views the injustice of his own murder.
Additionally, just to be exceedingly clear, when Jason said he’ll be “the better Batman” he was not announcing his plans to dress up in a new stupid cape and run around Shooting Da Bad Guys. He was describing his CURRENT involvement in organized crime as the means through which he would surpass Batman in helping Gotham. The narrative in UTRH places a great deal of emphasis Batman’s no-kill rule, but Jason’s idea of “crossing the line” actually goes far beyond just killing. (Notice in the previous image that Jason says killing Joker is merely one of a "long list" of sane acts Bruce refuses to commit, yet we know from the finale that he does not desire to simply kill all the rogues.) It’s not just about being willing to mete out death, it’s also all the other lines that delineate between lawful/acceptable and criminal/forbidden too.
The writing is pretty explicit about the theme of Jason surpassing or not surpassing Bruce.
I wonder how Jason looks back on this memory? Batman and Robin are heroes who abide by the law, dressed in in flashy capes... and yet it was an ordinary woman willing to do whatever it took that got justice for the Dumpster Slasher victims.
Now does Jason’s plan actually work? The comic isn’t all that interested in telling the audience exactly what to think. We get indications that Red Hood was successful in changing the way drug dealers operate, but for most people his ruthlessness will also be at least a little unsettling.
One thing we do know is that Jason successfully broke down Black Mask's organization. Roman went from head honcho of the Gotham underworld to just another gangster, and after UTRH Gotham was returned to more or less what it was prior to War Games.
As for the movie, it's much more direct. Batman just straight up says yes-- Red Hood is good at reducing crime.
I hope this answer was at least a little helpful OP, thank you for the ask!
amandla
