Mauve_Avenger on Ao3. Zutara feels are brewed fresh! If you are a fan of Aang, Mai and/or their associated ships, this is NOT the blog for you. Any attempts to debate me will be met with the most unserious replies I can muster until you block me out of frustration or I get bored with you. You've been warned
With the formalities over, Hakoda bade the pair to come eat and rest before they began what was bound to be the first of several long conversations. Zuko was aware of being closer than ever to seeing his uncle again, and the relief of him had him nearly dizzy. Still, as he and Katara trailed behind the men towards their camp, one thought hit him as he finally processed the last few minutes. He froze midstep, and Katara stopped beside him.
“What’s up?” she asked him quietly.
“Chief Hakoda?” Zuko rounded on Katara, his eyes wide in shock. “Chief?”
“Yeah?” Katara’s brows drew down. “What about it?”
“What about it?” Zuko whisper screamed. “What about it? When, exactly, were you going to tell me you’re a princess.”
“A what?” Katara laughed incredulously. “I’m not a princess.”
Zuko gestured wildly to where Hakoda was walking ahead of them.
“That was your dad, right?” he asked. “Chief Hakoda is your dad?”
“Yeah, he is,” Katara confirmed. “That doesn’t make me a princess, though.”
“How does it not?”
“It’s not like in the other nations,” Katara explained. “Leadership doesn’t follow the family line. I mean, okay, yes, my grandfather was also the chief, and my great-great aunt before him, but the tribe chose them and my dad. It doesn’t mean anything for me or Sokka, though. If either of us wants to take over leading next, we have to be chosen for it.”
“How does that work?” Zuko asked scrunching his nose.
“Well, each village chooses a leader to represent them,” Katara explained. “And then those village leaders come together and vote for a chief on behalf of their villages to serve as head of the tribe. It’s a permanent position, unless the people decide they don’t like how the chief leads. Each chief serves until either they die or they decide to step down.”
“And that…works?” Zuko looked dubious, but Katara just shrugged.
“It’s worked pretty well for the past few hundred or so years,” she said. “And I’m still not a princess.”
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Did you see the news about the cruel prince series? How do you feel about it?
I did, and I honestly don't care. I've always been team "no adaptation" for this series, tbh, so I wasn't going to watch it regardless. But it being an Amazon adaptation means I'm going to ignore it even harder.
Ok I've been seeing more takes like this, especially on tiktok.
Ka/aang stans: Why is aang out of character in the movie, he would never trust tagah over katara and his friends, it doesn't make sense because he chose katara over cosmic energy in the og series remember.
Me: oh boy....you all did not get why him choosing katara over his duty was detrimental to his growth and it shows. Like you all call us media illiterate and you really cant see why it makes sense for aang to give in to his wants and trust tagah?
His attachment to katara was unhealthy and needed to be let go he wasn't in love with her.... he was in love with the idea of her,, but you all don't wanna hear it because it doesn't serve your ship that aang is a yearner an lover boy and there's nothing wrong with him sacrificing the world to get with katara.
Aang wanted katara
Aang did not WANT to kill ozai
Aang wants to bring air bending back
Aang has always done what he wants, its why he even neglects his two eldest kids and favors the one who airbends of course.
All the post series canon does is prove that Aang's critics were right all along. People keep saying that he's OOC in the comics and LOK, and now the movie, I guess, but he's exactly who I would have expected him to be if he existed in real life. What baffles me is that Mike and Bryan allowed such an honest portrayal of their pet character.
Then again, they would have to recognize the deep, deep flaws in their own worldviews and how they affect the way they wrote these stories, and that's a level of introspection I don't think they're capable of. So, I guess the ironic accidental honesty is the best we're going to get.
them: “but LooK ShE’S STiLL a A BaDAsS and is a CoUnCILWoMan noW!”
me: “Okay but did you notice how Aang still relies on her for emotional stability and healing— instead of having shown some self-sufficiency like learning to heal himself (which could come handy from all that traveling he does alone)…
how he made this executive decision that they go on this immediate quest together via a written letter in the middle of the night while she’s still asleep (not even waiting til the morning to talk to her about it and how this might affect her busy CouncilWoman agenda…) and just kissed her Bye and expected her to gather the Gaang on his behalf…
how he practically spat on her face by ignoring her war trauma and dismissing the safety of their friends just to prioritize his pain (and got them all killed because of it…) …
and how, even after all of that… he never fully thanked her for hastily saving everyone’s lives, or fully turned to the group and humbled himself and apologized for his selfish behavior, or even affirmed to them that, as an Avatar who believed that All Life Is Sacred… he would no longer walk into situations recklessly disregarding other people’s lives? …
… particularly the lives of his longterm girlfriend and childhood friends?”
😒
This might come as a shock to some folks… but when fans talk about “giving Katara more agency” in a relationship, it’s not just giving her leadership and a freedom of career choices.
It’s about the relationship demonstrating mutual respect, accountability, consideration and willingness to compromise.
Not only do we not even get to see what her impact is on the council, her big girl boss moment is interrupted when Aang arrives, late, mind you, and draws all the attention from her. We never get to see what Katara actually does when she's not being Aang's emotional support girlfriend.
No matter how much you insist the canon is superior, they'll never make me unnotice that A.ang never once in the entire series sheds a single word of sympathy for Katara's murdered mom and then preaches to her about forgiving the murderer who ruined her life after giving no indication over the course of 3 entire seasons that he even gives a shit about her grief at all.
No wonder she said "I knew you wouldn't understand," in TSR. Cause he never gave her or the audience any reason to think he gave a shit. The only people that did give a shit were a guy she barely knew (Haru), a guy who later betrayed her (Jet), and another guy who betrayed her (Zuko) and spent most of the series as her enemy but somehow showed her more respect and care for her feelings in 10 episodes than A.ang did in 3 seasons.
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This tweet is actually representative of the kinds of hot takes that women have to endure every time they talk about misogyny. None of the traits that Aang has that are mentioned mean he can't be misogynistic, nor the fact that it's been 20 years, and he's a fictional character anyway, so the misogyny is that of those who created him. Like, wow, I can't believe there's misogyny in a cartoon from the early 2000s that was primarily aimed at boys, how incredible and unbelievable. It must be women's fault for pointing it out.
Not only that, that horrid new movie proves that Aang hasn't changed in the years between the end of the show and the events of this movie that had no real reason to exist. Of COURSE people are still talking about the Misogyny of Aang 20 years later. He's still a product of misogyny 20 years on.
Has Holly Black ever talked about the general knowledge gaps in Faerie? I'm sure there are people there who have a lot of knowledge about the mortal world, but what about the population at large? I'm trying to figure out where to lay the lines. Sure, Cardan probably doesn't know anything about the fact that mortals have been to space (although, what about Baphen? Would he be up on current space events?), what about dinosaurs, though? Would the general population of Faerie know about dinosaurs? Do they have any interest at all in paleontology or archeology? Or would the fact that they're so long lived paradoxically kill their curiosity about the deep past?
Are there any popular fan theories and headcanons on this?
I think I just opened up a can of worms trying to figure out 2 or 3 lines in a fic...
In a fight, I'm betting against Aang every time. Yes, he is the Avatar and is technically the most powerful of the group, but even after the finale, he doesn't have control over the Avatar State, and I don't for a second believe that as a technical 'master' of all four elements, he's anywhere near the level of his friends. Frankly, after seeing what airbending could do, I don't think he was even the best airbender that appeared in the show (or after it). If it came down to a fight between him and any of his friends (including the non-benders), and accessing the Avatar State wasn't an option, he would lose every time.
At all points in the show, he was significantly more inclined to goof off and/or hang out with fans rather than actually put forth any effort to train or learn anything. Even with the Comet on the horizon, he was more focused on how not to kill Ozai than how to beat him in a fight.
And sure, he may have come up with a couple airbending tricks, but enough of the other kids were able to quickly replicate his first, big one for them to make a game based around it. Lest we forget, he’s 12. Just like in romance, he simply doesn’t have the experience to be particularly skilled at it.
Don't go hiding in the tags. You make a good point. You would think this would be obvious, wouldn't you? But you'd be surprised the number of people think Aang is the best fighter of the group on the basis of him just barely having access to the Avatar State, and a tenuous grip of 4 elements we rarely see him practicing after "mastering" them. Even his airbending was weak in comparison to what we see from other airbenders (@dadycoool pointed out that even the "new" airbending move that got him his mastery was so basic, it only took his classmates a day or two to get the gist of it). But there are folks who will go to the mat to say he was the strongest of the group. Go figure.
Personally, I think he's too lazy a character to ever be more than adequate, and in a fight without the Avatar State, he would absolutely be bodied by Suki (I assume that's the warrior you're talking about? Or do you mean Sokka? Either way, totally agree). Aang's biggest strength is his ability to distract. That's only going to get him so far against a determined and focused opponent.
I like how reluctant to fight and how bad at fighting Aang is at the protector of the world, since he’s just a little kid. I might be biased since I work in a school, but I’m surrounded all day by twelve year olds, eleven year olds, eight year olds, seven year olds, five years olds, whose first reaction to everything is to fight. They go into everything fists first, see it as the solution to everything, and they never trust anybody to handle their problems for them the way a child should. Trauma has made them incapable of laying down their arms. Even when someone offers, even when someone older can do it better.
Too many coming of age shows are about some kid who has to fight and die for the sake of the world, and a lot of kids fantasize about having that level of importance and purpose, but a lot of other kids have to fight and die for the way of the world every day. A lot.
Aang is a nice break from the status quo. I like what his arc has to say.
Let the twelve year old be a shit fighter who mostly depends on his older friends and mentors. Let him goof off. I’m sick of watching children fight and die.
Yeah, except the show, Bryke, and all Aang's stans all want me to believe he's the best fighter of the group. They want me to believe that the Avatar is the REEEEAAL Hero despite the fact he never actually does anything to earn that.
I don't care that he is a reluctant fighter. That could have been an interesting story. That's not the problem. The problem is he's a weak character. By that I don't mean that's he's physically weak (although...). I mean that he doesn't do much growing or changing as a character, but everything works out for him because it's supposed to.
Some of my favorite heroes are reluctant fighters. Some of my favorite heroes have strict no kill policies and are actually very empathetic towards the people they fight. They don't necessarily want the power that was given to them, but they know they have a responsibility to learn how to control it, and to use it to help when they can. Aang doesn't even care that much about the Avatar State, even though, as a self-proclaimed pacifist, he should be concerned that in an emotional outburst, he has the power to do serious physical damage to the people around him. That is never addressed. He knows that the world in a war that is indirectly his fault, and his friends lives have been hard as a result. He never acknowledges it. He knows he has an issue with killing Ozai, but at no point is he ever actively looking for a solution (what exactly was he going to do on DoBS????).
Aang is not a bad protagonist because he's against violence. He's a bad protagonist because he has very little bearing on the plot until the plot needs him to power up. If his role in the story isn't to grow and change and learn how to responsibly wield his power, whether he wants to use them to be a great warrior or not, then what is his role? Because all I see is a main character who is underdeveloped to the point that he's not even an active part of his own story. He's a McGuffin. He's a plot device. He is not the hero of the story.
And I hate, hate, hate, HATE when people use the comparison of real life children to justify what a terrible character Aang is. Aang is not a child. He the protagonist in a fictional series about people who can control the elements. The most interesting interpretation of his character is that he's lazy, selfish and bad at his one job. Also, he would lose a fight to any other member of the cast in a fair match up. Because he's a lazy student with all the raw talent but none of the drive.
I get what you’re saying and it does suck that they want us to think he’s a super awesome fighter bad guy, but watching it I thought the point was that he was unambitious and reluctant. That’s what I got from it anyway.
Not all characters have to change. That’s a modern idea. Static characters used to be a popular option for proving something right. And I think Aang does that. In any other show, he would have had a cliche, ‘some things are worth fighting for arc’ but through out the show he is an actual child. A child character, but still a child. A child who thinks ‘I don’t want to fight for this.’
And you think at some point he would have something truly awful that makes him think ‘I have to sacrifice my childhood for this’ but in the end, it actually validates that fact that he never wanted to do this and he never should have had to.
If Aang had stepped up to the plate, the narrative would have been saying he would have been wrong to be a lazy student, but he wasn’t. He was a child protagonist. Even if he’s fictional, he’s still a kid. He’s written as a kid.
And maybe Bryke doesn’t get that, but he also wrote the amazing setup for Zutara and didn’t even recognize it, so I wouldn’t put it past him.
If Aang had been a twelve year old character that acted like an adult character with adult psychology, the show wouldn’t have been very interesting. It would have just been Legend of Korra.
But he acted like a twelve year old who procrastinates, distracts himself from difficult things, and does things because he’s been told he has to, not because he wants to.
I’m glad he was static personally. Like Snow White, it proves a point at the end. I get what you’re saying and I’m okay to agree to disagree because you made some great points, like I get what’s frustrating about a main character who doesn’t change and grow, but sometimes they aren’t supposed to. Sometimes they were right all along.
Wow...three years to reply. I think that might be a record?
Anywho, his being static is not a good thing. It makes him incredibly boring at best. Something that was highlighted by the latest installment of the ATLA universe where he- as a 20something (25, apparently) year old man having the exact same struggles he was having at 12. He has not progressed as the Avatar, or as a person in general.
He can't handle non-bender opponents without the Avatar State, and he isn't even the most powerful airbender in the movie. He still needs a deus-ex-machina to win against someone who not only bends just one element, but it's the element he's supposed to be the best at. He's still incredibly self-involvled in his relationship with Katara (what does he mean that she, who actually lived through the genocide of her people and was the last of her kind couldn't understand his feelings at the loss of his people and culture?). He's still incredibly selfish with his friends (he literally got them killed because he wouldn't listen to their warnings about the guy he decided to put full trust in for no other reason than he was also an airbender. It would have been understandable if he were still 12. It's much less so when he's well on his way to 30, and still so focused on the Air Nomads, he's actually a horrible Avatar).
Tell me, does being a static character mean he has to be the exact same person as an adult that he was at 12?
I don't know why we have such a hard time with the idea that Taryn is both an awful sister, and also that it makes perfect sense for Jude to forgive her. Holly Black has written a story where a mother slept with her daughter's high school aged boyfriend and the daughter forgave her enough to live under the same roof in the end. The mother is still a monster, and the daughter still forgave her. Obviously, we don't spend the same amount of time with the cheating mom as we do with Taryn, and the mom is older, but still. In Holly Black's world, it's entirely possible to be a barely repentant monster and go on to have a relationship with the heroine. And a character can be infuriating, but also interesting.
My point is, Taryn doesn't need to be justified. She's an awful sister, but she also loves Jude. The story would suffer without her, as horrendously selfish as she is. You can enjoy Taryn and also recognize that she's the worst type of Nice.
You really think Madoc loved Jude and Taryn? They didn't seem to.
The girls were wary of Madoc, and for good reason. I think Jude knows that Madoc loves them, but she also doesn't think that his love would protect them if he decided they were in the way. As for Taryn...I don't know man...maybe? She probably has a similar understanding of Madoc. It's not as if he makes a great big secret of caring for them. Even Oriana points out how he dotes on the girls. Jude loves him, and I don't think she would have gotten to that point if he didn't show her love, too. We don't hear Taryn say it, but it's not going too far out on a limb to say she loves Madoc, too.
The thing is they thought Madoc's patience with them had an extremely short limit, but I don't think that's true. Vivi outright disrespects him to his face and does whatever she feels like, and I know Jude thinks its because she's the only one of them who is related to Madoc by blood, but she's not great at reading people. Look all the things she got away with, after all. Okay, yeah, Madoc ended up stabbing her, but you also have to remember he's a Fae with a finely honed instinct for battle. Him treating her as an equal on the battle field was a show of high respect, and doesn't necessarily mean he didn't love her. Later he goes on to try to give her legitimate guidance for acting as the sole ruler of Elfhame. He also never intended for Jude to be bound to the Jorel and Nore, and if they had succeeded with their scheme, I think he would have sworn violent and bloody vengeance on them. Madoc is for all intents and purposes, an actual, natural born, boogieman-story monster. Of course his version of love is going to look crazy.
Madoc loved the girls, but his mistake was not understanding their vulnerability. If he had acknowledged the fact that the twins, in particular, were in danger despite him claiming them as his own, and acted accordingly, they probably would have made much different choices. He didn't protect them as well as he should have, but that was more an issue of him not recognizing the subtler dangers the girls were facing than him not caring. That's why I will never hear anyone who says that Oriana didn't care about the girls. She may not have loved them like a mother, but that doesn't mean she didn't love them in her own way. I will die on the hill that she did her best to look out for them, although it's clear her authority over them was very limited.
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Katara originally going to be pregnant in the movie is INSANE. Bryke describe Aang as "on the cusp of adulthood" at 25 and he was about to be a parent! Bryke!!!! You're makig your ship worse!
When I tell you that every new release from Bryke makes me hate Aang and Kataang more. I didn't think it was mentally or physically possible. Aang is terrible, and Bryke refuses to fix him. I mean, it's already too late, but they could at least try to make this whole situation salvagable.
EETZ BIN 8TEEN YARRRSSS!!!! Says the person still getting emotional about someone having a different opinion than them. Yelling and screaming and cursing at me isn't going to change my opinion. It's not going to do anything but raise your blood pressure.
I also notice how that Aang stan couldn't refute my claims. Funny how I criticize Aang, and the response is to insult me. But, you know, Aang stans gonna Aang stan. That is also something that hasn't changed in 18 years.
have you seen the new Obsession movie? does it give you any thoughts about aang or k/t//ng?
It's the fact that in both couples, the male lead imposes on the girl's autonomy instead of actually having an honest conversation with her about his feelings (Bear with his wish and Aang with thinking that forcing a kiss on Katara solidified his claim on her). Obviously, Obsession isn't operating under the delusion that Bear is the hero in the story, so it's a lot more honest about what a nightmare that experience was for Nikki, but seeing how Katara was written post ATLA and what her dynamic with Aang was like, it would be incredibly easy to make that relationship into a similar horror story.
Yall are never beating the misogynistic allegations. Comparing Aang to Bear and Kataang to Nikki/Bear is fucking insane. 18 fucking years of delusion and making shit up in order to prop up your fanon ship. This is why ppl can’t stand Zutara shippers.
I didn't make up Aang literally opening up a lava fissure in Katara's face because she didn't want to talk about his crush on her. Or him taking off immediately to go play a day after her father had been taken captive making sure he got away. Or him telling Katara he would be in the AS if he could because he was upset about a play. I also didn't make up how Katara's role in the post series canon is downgraded to "Aang support girlfriend". Even in the new movie, she gets maybe 30 seconds not dedicated to building Aang up (meanwhile, Aang at his big age is still insisting that Katara, who was also a genocide survivor can't possibly understand his pain as he ignores his new buddy's blatant disrespect of the woman he allegedly loves). Sure. We made it all up. Go post in the Kataang tag, you loon.
Also, I love it when an Aang stan comes to my correctly tagged posts and start throwing tantrums about how I'm the real problem when I wasn't talking to them in the first place. Hey, crazy person! Aang can't hear you. He won't think you're super cool for defending him.
I think in canon it’s suggested that air nomads are more spiritually pure than others and that’s why they are all air benders(honestly gross line of thinking). I could definitely imagine Aang passive aggressively forcing Katara to adopt the vegetarian life style out of a moral superiority and thinking he’s going to get air bender that way.
I genuinely believe he was horrible about Katara's diet after Kya was born. He thinks Tenzin's birth justifies him, but he doesn't know that Katara was sneaking meat the whole time.
Saw your last ask and great insights btw as always. But now I gotta ask what are your thoughts on why Taryn agreed to help Madoc steal Cardan’s army?
There was a scene in the first book where Madoc and Balekin promised Jude a boon if she helped them bring Cardan to his coronation feast. I assumed Madoc also promised Taryn the same boon for agreeing to help him at the end of book 2. Which means he is indebted to her and she could call in his debt by asking for his protection for the trial. But if Taryn believed Madoc didn’t care for her like that, it doesn’t make sense for her to go along with his plan no questions asked. Do you think she was just being a dutiful daughter? I don’t believe she has that kind of loyalty to him. Sorry for the shade but I think it’s quite clear from how she had treated Jude that family doesn’t mean much to her. Like this is your war general of a father. He is asking you to accommodate him steal the high king’s army and free him from his vow to the crown. That’s a huge ask. So I’m wondering how do you think Madoc got her to comply with his demands? Do you think she agreed purely out of fear of him?
Aw! Thank you!😊
I get the impression that Taryn was just going along with it because Madoc asked. Nothing that she said or did after that makes me believe that she put any thought into it. She had to know that Cardan would find out what she did, but she didn't act like she thought there would be any consequences for it, let alone think of turning to Madoc for protection. Heck, she stayed in Elfhame after Jude's banishment, but she had no reason to think that Cardan wouldn't have been upset with her.
I'm sure that Taryn was afraid of Madoc. She probably had the same complicated feelings for him that Jude had. That being said, I doubt Madoc went up to her and told her to either do what he said or he'd run her through with his sword. He probably just asked her to do it, and she didn't have too many follow up questions for him. You have to assume that whatever exchange happened between them happened quickly, because Taryn needed time to go get clothes from Jude's room, change out of what sounds like a very elaborate gown, probably by herself and get to Cardan's room and leave before Jude came back, so Taryn clearly didn't spend too much time trying to figure out what Madoc was doing and why. Taryn very much gives "I was just following orders" here. I think that was literally the extent of her thought process. And once again, she didn't consider the potential consequences for Jude.
That's the thing that I don't think people who defend Taryn and say all hate for her is coming from a place of internalized misogyny. She is very good at feigning helplessness to avoid accountability. That's her defense mechanism. I do understand Taryn, and I love what she brings to the story. I get that the things she does is because she wants to live a safe and happy life in the only home she knows. I just think it's interesting how often the things she does to survive put Jude, specifically, at risk.
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One thing I really love about The Folk of the Air trilogy is how Cardan and Jude are mutually shitty to each other and to others. This is such a true, genuine 'enemies to lovers' that I have not actually seen with characters that possess so many flaws.
I love that Jude isn't love-struck and following Cardan like a puppy. I am glad she's not constantly talking about how "hot" he is and she is not instantly in-love with him. She is her own person with ambition and is willing to actually do what it takes to get what she wants. She doesn't only think about it or have it suddenly handed to her, she acts on her desires and achieves them. Frequently getting hurt in some way in the process, too.
Cardan has genuine cruelty that he isn't afraid to lean into, genuine vulnerability and the ability to fully admit it without making excuses. He isn't physically domineering and built so big he can't fit in a doorway. He's a spoiled little pretty boy.
These two were backstabbing each other and pissing each other off constantly. They were taunting and threatening and angry. They were frustrated. They were disgusted. The hate between them was real and mutual.
The Folk of the Air trilogy isn't a one-sided 'MMC is shitty and abusive to the soft, loving FMC but he's really been a good guy all along and he's loved her since before she was even born and all the hate they felt was sexual attraction because of a mating bond created by the stars' story.
Jude and Cardan wrote their fates; separately and together. They fought for their lives, they fought for their loves, and they fought for and with each other.
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