What is the difference between Zoya and a tiny aggressive chihuahua?
I wouldn't kick a chihuahua to make it shut up.
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@taragreenfield
What is the difference between Zoya and a tiny aggressive chihuahua?
I wouldn't kick a chihuahua to make it shut up.

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“We would need an extraordinarily powerful Fabrikator to bring forth the thornwood the way that Elizaveta did.” The Darkling smiled. “Does this mean you have not mastered all Juris setout to teach you?” Zoya felt the dam containing her rage give way. She lunged toward theDarkling as Nikolai seized her arms to hold her back. “You do not speak his name. Say his name again and I’ll cut the tongue from your mouth and wear it as a brooch.”
… why is Zoya so angry that he speaks about Juris tho. I think if the old lizard would mind, he would say so. They [Sasha and Juris] knew each other most likely for years.
Her and Juris weren’t even besties but I could believe Sasha and him were friends. Seriously she gets a murderous rage so easily like how will she do well as a Queen?
by murdering people, probably. or causing 3 wars at once because she will threaten an ambassador/monarch/diplomat with bodily harm
i literally cannot think of a worse candidate for a queen
why not genya??? the spy, the tactician, the person willing to sacrifice herself for the good of her people???
literally anyone would be better than zoya
at this point dead David would be better candidate, at least he can’t make things worse than they already are
i mean he wouldn’t murder a foreign diplomat in a blind rage over a minor insult, so he’s def an improvement
zoya has literally NOTHING going on in her favour expect this nebulous power, but unlike alina & aleksander, she wasn’t born with it, and she DEFINITELY didn’t earn it
and politically, i cannot stress how much of a difference it makes, that aleksander had to fight for and claw every inch of power he’s ever had from the hands of his opressors while zoya is handed everything just like that on a silver platter
HE KNOWS ITS VALUE. ZOYA DOESN’T. she hasn’t earned it. she doesn’t know hoe to effectively use it. aleksander was just as powerful as she is, but he didn’t resort to choking anyone who disagreed with him with shadows–i wonder why? maybe because he’s had centuries of experience and knew it wasn’t sustainable??? just maybe???
Alina assumed Aleksander ruled with fear.
Alina definitely assumes Zoya would rule diplomatically because she is a saint.
Aleksander has the patience of a saint.
Zoya has the patience of a ticking time bomb.
And this everyone, is why we don’t make young people/living saints head monarchs straight up
Honestly, why doesn’t Juris ask her to think logically than act on impulse?
You can terrify people into loyalty, that is bound to end badly
I really want to know what Juris even saw in Zoya
I like to think he instantly regretted it the moment we realize how explosive Zoya is.
But she was great in R&R, so maybe Juris was expecting someone willing to learn, someone with just a cold facade. idk why LB took that Zoya away from us and gave us this version of her with her faults amplified to an extent it physically hurts to think about it
Maybe, I was fine with Zoya when she was just a cold bitch but the KoS duology ruined her.
I hope Juris and the Stag will meet in the afterlife so they can bond over their shared regret of chosing the wrong person.
yototothelalafell:
This would have been a more interesting scene if Sasha had spoken of someone Juris had loved and Zoya didn’t understand her own emotional reaction.
It was always very interesting on Deep Space Nine, when Jadzia Dax (a humanoid with an immortal symbiote) had to navigate the feelings and memories of previous hosts.
Zoya being overwhelmed by Juris’ much older and dominant presence would have been an actually interesting plotline.
Imagine a similar scene, but sparked by the name of a different Grisha. And at the end of it Aleksander smirks and says, “Hello, old friend” because he knows he is speaking with Juris rather than Zoya.
@yototothelalafell Why does this fandom have 1000% better and more interesting ideas than what’s in canon?
The smallest and the most scared dogs always have the loudest bark.
That's how I see Zoya every time she opens her mouth in her righteous outrage:
Shadow and Bone and bigotry apologia
The whole Grishaverse is basically one long "Will anyone think of poor bigots?" plea.
It's hard for them, you know! Those Grisha are damn witches, so poor bigots can't even hurl abuse at them without fear of being cursed! They have to walk on eggshells every time they feel the need to scream "dirty bloodletter" at a Grisha passing by! In addition to that, Grisha have the audacity to be naturally healthier and better-looking than poor ordinary people, which makes our virtuous heroine go green with holy righteous envy.
How dare those dirty demons isolate themselves from nice ordinary people who want to burn them at the stake? They live in the palace! They have nice things, which they do not want to share with their bigoted compatriots for some unexplicable reason. They should be bending themselves backward to please the oppressive majority, and instead they act like standoffish snobs and leave poor otkazats'ya no choice other than to oppress them further! That's why our righteous heroine is going to fix that horrific injustice and make sure that no bigot is left without a bunch of Grisha goodies! She is not even above looting corpses for that; that's how determined she is to provide for her fellow chauvinists!
And it's not like otkazatsya hate Grisha for nothing! Five centuries ago one of those damn evil demons created a big and scary shadowy wall, which is a totally valid excuse to hate all Grisha forever! Instead of adapting to their new landscape, Ravkans could only sit on their asses and shake with impotent rage towards the man who was officially dead when their great-great-great-grandparents weren't even born. I guess it's fair to assume that Ravkans do not own umbrellas; they just shake their fists at the sky when it rains and curse the name of whoever invented precipitation.
And poor Mal! Everyone is hating on him, and nobody wants to understand that he just learned that his friend belongs to a minority he considers disgusting and unnatural! Can you imagine how difficult it is for him to have his bigotry triggered in such a brutal way? Besides, in the end he magnanimously accepted Alina's power! Sure, the power was later removed anyway not to traumatize the poor boy further and give him a powerless unassuming wife he always wanted, but he was ready to tolerate that horrible grishaness in his girlfriend, and nobody appreciated his heroism!
And can you imagine, after centuries of genocide, those cursed Grisha decided to use violence! Once again, poor otkazats'ya had no other option but to take their righteous fury out on all Grisha regardless of their participation in the violent act. That's totally understandable; poor babies are scared and confused; they thought violence was their prerogative! Whoever told the victims of persecution they can fight back? That should be illegal. Violence is not the answer, which is why all Grisha who use violent methods should be killed! Why couldn't they just explain to otkazats'ya that they are nice people and want no harm? That always works so well with marginalized minorities! Because people who form genocidal cults and built whole systems on oppression and subjugation are just poor scared kids who need to be reassured that the monster under their bed is not real.
The right way for the oppressed to fight for their rights is obviously to wait until a privileged royal spawn feels the urge to play a white savior and hands them a bunch of empty promises. And then a village idiot whose only value is the light shining out of her ass (and even for that impressive feat she had to skulk around the country and kill a few magical animals) will appoint her equally unqualified friends to represent the interests of the oppressed minority. This is the only way!
Now poor traumatized bigots can sleep in peace. No evil Grisha to inconvenience them with their unnatural existence.
I will put this here, too.
How do people come to the conclusion that grisha oppression is the Darkling’s fault for creating the fold? Even in the show, we literally see Grisha being hunted and killed before the fold exists. Baghra herself says there is now a war against grisha because Aleksander helped the king win his war (pre fold). If you think it’s his fault for creating the fold, you’re being intentionally obtuse.
Find canon reasons to hate the Darkling, please🤦🏻♀️
And it's just so ridiculously unrealistic. It's been 500 years, people would have adapted and treated that goddamn fold as a natural landmark a long time ago. The Black Heuretic, for all they know, has been dead for half a millennium. Hating all Grisha because one of them did something bad five centuries ago without pre-existing prejudice is just preposterous. Chernobyl happened 40 years ago, and people organize tours there and make jokes about radioactive mutants. Most people have never thought about whose fault it was because they genuinely don't care. The Fold being the reason for anti-Grisha prejudice would have been ridiculous anyway. Bigotry and hatred that span centuries never happens just "because of that one thing."
Yes to all of this.
Do I think otkazat’sya ramped up their hatred after the fold was created? Absolutely. Because bigots will take any excuse to ramp up their bigotry. It didn’t start there, it only got worse from there, because now they had an excuse for their hatred.
Imagine if we all developed universal hatred for Austrian painters after WW2.

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How do people come to the conclusion that grisha oppression is the Darkling’s fault for creating the fold? Even in the show, we literally see Grisha being hunted and killed before the fold exists. Baghra herself says there is now a war against grisha because Aleksander helped the king win his war (pre fold). If you think it’s his fault for creating the fold, you’re being intentionally obtuse.
Find canon reasons to hate the Darkling, please🤦🏻♀️
And it's just so ridiculously unrealistic. It's been 500 years, people would have adapted and treated that goddamn fold as a natural landmark a long time ago. The Black Heuretic, for all they know, has been dead for half a millennium. Hating all Grisha because one of them did something bad five centuries ago without pre-existing prejudice is just preposterous. Chernobyl happened 40 years ago, and people organize tours there and make jokes about radioactive mutants. Most people have never thought about whose fault it was because they genuinely don't care. The Fold being the reason for anti-Grisha prejudice would have been ridiculous anyway. Bigotry and hatred that span centuries never happens just "because of that one thing."
Antis are hilarious. "Waaaah, you cannot like the Darkling! He hurt Alina's feelings! He tried to kill Mal! He blinded Baghra! He turned Nikolai into a demon! He burned the orphanage down!!!"
Girl, those are literally five more reasons to like him. What are you trying to achieve?
Leigh Bardugo has truly created one of the best-written villains ever. Every time he appears on the page and opens his filthy mouth, I want to beat him up with a baseball bat.
The way he devalues the heroine and makes her feel small and worthless.
The way he cannot stand her being happy and confident without him.
The way he makes demeaning, offensive comments about her.
The way he ignores her misery and obviously thrives when she is weak and helpless.
The way he gets jealous and aggressive every time she looks at another man.
The way he tries to control her and speaks over her, not letting her make her own decisions.
The way he tries to blame her for his wrongdoings.
The way he leaves her alone in the state of obvious distress because he is too preoccupied with his bruised ego.
The way he resents her being more powerful and important than him and makes ugly scenes every time she doesn't pay him enough attention.
The way she feels guilty and ashamed and starts second-guessing herself when he is in a bad mood.
The way he guilt-trips her and manipulates her into feeling sorry for him.
The way he conditioned her to believe that her self-worth depends on him and her happiness is impossible without his presence.
The way he claims he only wants what's best for her, which makes his abuse even more insidious.
The way she never realizes what damage he's done and keeps doing to her because she believes she can trust him.
The way he gets everything he wants in the end: he is a rich, handsome, popular guy, and she is his nameless, quiet, unassuming, socially ostracized wife.
The way their relationship mimics a toxic, emotionally abusive relationship with eerie accuracy.
He is not evil in an appealing, sexy, fantasy-villain way. He doesn't need a big black cloak, shadow magic, or world-conquering ambitions. He is vile in the most mundane, suffocatingly mediocre sense of this world.
Naming him "Mal," which means "evil" in Latin, was a little bit on the nose, though.
“He'd come to recognize the bizarre phenomenon of Zoya's beauty, the way men loved to create stories around it. They said she was cruel because she'd been harmed in the past. They claimed she was cold because she just hadn't met the right fellow to warm her. Anything to soften the edges and sweeten her disposition--and what was the fun in that? Zoya's company was like strong drink. Bracing--and best to abstain if you couldn't handle the kick.”
Haha, those ridiculous people assuming that Zoya is cruel because she was a victim! That she is secretly soft and just learned to hide it due to her trauma! Fools!
AkShUaLlY, Zoya is Suli, which makes her twice marginalized! And her own mother tried to marry her off to an old pervert when she was nine! And the Darkling ignored her, which is obviously grooming and manipulation! And she only sought power because she wanted to feel safe uwu! And she always wanted to plant a garden because deep down she is just a soft girly girl who luuuuvs flowers like every girly girl in existence!
Zoya would be a much better character if she were truly a harsh, unlikeable, unpleasant woman, and instead of her secretly being a pitiful wounded bird, her redeeming quality would be her competence and effectiveness. Yes, she acts like a bitch because this is who she is, but at least she gets shit done. Instead, the book delivers a pity party, political impotence, and tons of moral masturbation, reinforcing the same gender stereotypes it tries to mock.
(x)
Dunno lady, but to me it seems you put trying to save a dying country on the same level as ensuring your brainwashed housewife doesn't forget her place.
Love how she puts Alina siding with the Darkling as just "Oh no, he's hot".
Sure, I know some Darklinas are like that, but for me (and a lot of other people I'd assume), Alina siding with Aleksander is less about them fucking nasty and more about her realizing that he's fucking right. They CAN absolutely fuck nasty later, but I couldn't care less, tbh.
Imagine writing a book about a war-torn feudal monarchy, systemic oppression, genocide, and the conflict between the ruling class and an oppressed minority and reducing the dynamics to who is hot and who is not. Sure, your protagonist might only engage with your antagonist because he is sexy. Sure, she cannot realize that he was right about something and she, in her turn, misjudged the situation, and the biggest threat is not the Darkling but the system he fought against. God forbid she might get some actual development this way, and then it would be harder to make her an unassuming Mal's donkey. Sorry, ma'am, but not everyone is as shallow as you, and some of us were actually more interested in the political part than in the Darkling's dick. His dick can be a nice bonus, but definitely not the focal point.

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What I wanted to learn about the Darkling from the books:
How and why he created the Shadow Fold
How he created the Second Army and the Little Palace and how they actually function
What he has been up to for literal centuries
What his actual political and ideological views are and how he envisioned the future for Ravka and Grisha.
What I learned about the Darkling from the books instead:
The color of his eyes. They are grey, which is stated about 250 times in case someone is still not sure what color grey looks like.
the state of his hair at any given point in time.
He has a bEaUtIfUl face. Yes, it's also repeated 250 times in case you suddenly forget that he is handsome.
His laugh sounds sexy
His bare chest is irresistibly hawt
The books are cursed with a shallow, ignorant protagonist who keeps focusing on wrong things.
No, being sexually attracted to a "bad" guy and berating herself for it doesn't make the heroine complex. Moral complexity would require her to actually engage with the political climate around her, consider the actions of her enemies and allies and their impact on objective reality instead of how they make her feel, and, most importantly, reflect on her own choices rather than judging someone else's. Emotional complexity would require her to be torn between her lingering attachment and empathy for the antagonist and her judgment of his methods and actions. The closest she gets to empathizing with him is noticing that he sometimes looks "like a boy," which is purely visual.
Salivating over the guy's chest and feeling bad because of it doesn't make her a nuanced and morally complex protagonist. It makes her a horny prude.
Sexual frustration doesn't equal complexity. Sexual attraction doesn't have anything to do with morals—it's morally neutral. It's just hormones. The fact that Alina was tempted by his body is not a moral failure. Being attracted to a handsome man is one of the things she shouldn't feel guilty about. She'd do better if she felt guilty for her bigotry; her supporting rapists, oppressors, and various hateful violent bigots; her committing a mass murder and other war crimes; or her tendency to abandon everyone and care only about herself and her dishrag friend, or at least for being a cunt towards everyone who is not the said dishrag friend.
Instead, she is shamed for having a libido and only feels guilty when Mal looks like something crawled up his ass. And we are supposed to be impressed by her virtue, purity, and humility because she a) won't fuck an evil guy and b) would rather stay powerless and miserable than use her power for the collective good.
Antis: Alina was totally manipulated, gaslighted, seduced and confused by the evil Darkling!
Also antis: But of course she wasn't really in love with him! She would never! Mal was her one true love, and the Darkling was just a distraction!
Antis: Zoya was groomed and manipulated by the Darkling; his abuse fundamentally changed her as a person!
Also antis: Pfff, Zoya didn't really care about the Darkling! She wanted power, and he was just a distraction! She left as soon as she realized he's bad!
It's adorable how they want the poor girlies to be victims but squirm uncomfortably if the implications of being the victim of an abusive relationship involve something other than righteous, full-throated outrage and immediate rejection.
Heaven forbid a heroine would be genuinely conflicted, tempted to return and become morally compromised! Heaven forbid she would be tainted by feelings towards the wrong man! Heaven forbid she would try to see good in him and defend him because of her emotional attachment! She cannot possibly be anything other than a pure holy Mary full of righteous anger! She was totally ensnared and beguiled, but she also didn't really care at all. She was mercilessly manipulated and brainwashed but also instantly saw through it. Her absolute moral purity would never allow anything else! This is such an accurate representation of an abusive relationship that it has literally nothing in common with an abusive relationship.
"The Darkling's methods only made otkazats'ya fear Grisha more!!!" Excuse you, if they still had the nerve to attack innocent Grisha, they obviously were not scared enough.
A decent tyrant would have made them terrified to even think poorly of Grisha.
Unfortunately, Sashka wasn't cut out to be a tyrant.
i love the universal understanding amongst darkling stans that under the veneer of stability and control book!darkling is just a feral child
"I didn't think he was in love with me, and I had no idea what I felt for him, but he wanted me, and maybe that was enough."
That's what Alina thinks after her kiss with Aleksander at the fete. "he wanted me, and maybe that was enough." She doesn't mention whether or not she wants him, as if it wasn't crucial for this particular situation. She is not used to expressing her sexual agency and acknowledging her desires, which is understandable given her upbringing.
My arms glided up his back and twined around his neck. He kissed me again, and I sighed into the welcome press of his mouth. I felt his weight slide over me and ran my hands over the hard muscles of his arms. If Mal was still with me, if he could still love me, then there was hope. My heart was pounding in my chest as warmth spread through me. There was no sound but our breathing and the shift of our bodies together. He was kissing my throat, my collarbone, drinking my skin. I shivered and pressed closer to him. This was what I wanted, wasn’t it? To find some way to heal the breach between us?
If Mal wants her, that's enough. Again, there is no acknowledgment of her own desire. The phrase about "healing the breach" is also interesting. She sees their potential intercourse as a way to fix their relationship, not as an expression of their mutual desire. It's not "I want him", it's "I want to heal our relationship, so if that what it takes, so be it" Her sexual agency is once again treated as something irrelevant.
Their sex scene with Mal is no better:
“You are all I’ve ever wanted,” he said. “You are the whole of my heart.” I saw myself then—sour, silly, difficult, lovely in his eyes. I drew him to me, felt him shudder as our bodies came together, skin against skin, felt the heat of his lips, his tongue, hands moving until the need between us drew taut and anxious as a bowstring waiting for release. He clasped his hand to my wrist and my mind filled with light. All I saw was Mal’s face, all I felt was his body—above me, around me, an awkward rhythm at first, then slow and steady as the beat of the rain. It was all we needed. It was all we would ever have.
Again, a bunch of insecurities, some sensory descriptions, awkward rhythm, and the resigned "it was all we needed. It was all we would ever have." Mal stated that he wanted her, and her desires don't get a mention. She reacts to his actions and settles for whatever she got, which, judging by an unenthusiastic description, wasn't much.
She never learns to acknowledge and express her desires, to be an active agent of her sexuality instead of a passive recipient. And that's treated as normal.
When evening fell, the boy would bring the girl a glass of tea, a slice of lemon cake, an apple blossom floating in a blue cup. He would kiss her neck and whisper new names in her ear: beauty, beloved, cherished, my heart.
Even in the epilogue, she never takes charge. Mal initiates all the contact. She is an object of his affection. Sex is what happens to her. Good girls may be wanted but can never want; that would be scandalous!

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Darklina cannot be a depiction of an abusive relationship because Alina and the Darkling have never been in a relationship. They talked five times and kissed twice, Alina had no emotional involvement (as you noted yourself) and literally referred to him as "near strangers". Their interactions after her escape were interactions of two enemies on opposite sides, not ex-lovers.
Meanwhile, a lot of people noted that Mal reminds them of their abusive/toxic ex and listed specific examples. He is jealous and aggressive and insecure about her power; he cheats on her and blames her for that. He leaves her alone when she needs emotional support to nurse his fragile ego. She feels guilty over his every mood swing and is ready to forgive him everything as long as he comes back. But I guess their experiences are invalid because Bardugo chose to depict that toxic swamp as a wholesome relationship?
And refrain from making assumptions about other people's personal lives just because their vision of a fictional ship differs from yours. If the existence of Darklina shippers baffles you so much, here is another mind-blowing idea for you: you don't know how and why other people interpret a piece of media, and their fictional preferences do not give you any insights into their personal lives.
Or how to say that you have no imagination in a falsely intellectual way.
1) There is a very odd assumption that the only way to "get the point" of the story is to agree with every writing decision the author makes. One might understand what the author was trying to do and still think this message was ill-conceived, incoherent, or disagreeable and that the story would have benefited from these characters being together.
2) Once again, you can understand what the author was trying to do and like it but simply want to explore other possibilities. Yes, these characters are canonically not in love, but what if they were? How would that affect the story? How would their relationship develop? The whole point of the fandom is creativity; it would be a pretty boring and redundant place if everyone were just regurgitating the same point over and over again.
3) Finally, a ship being canon doesn't necessarily mean the author put effort into their romance. Sometimes it feels unearned, which is one of the reasons why people might not like the canon ship.