#twst discourse

The way I see it:

You’ll find Leona fans who hate Malleus and those fans will hate malleus and all he’s connected to which includes Lilia.

You’ll find Leona and malleus fans who understands and gets both sides.

And many other combinations of fans.

But there are fans of Leona and lilia who gets it. Who understands both sides.

But it’s the louder ones that we hear that causes discourse than the quiet ones who just don’t want to deal with it or partake in the debate. And at the end of the day, that’s all it is. Opinions clashing.

I have seen many fans make excuses for their faves over the opposing side and that will always be the case. And, if that makes them happy great. But I wish they would keep that out of the tags of the characters they hate.

Character hate in tags always irritates me or they can tag it as hate or such to be easily filtered.

My opinion on book 2 with Leona versus Lilia?

From what we learned about Lilia in book 7?

He deserves the thrashing he gave Leona.

He was hot. What other better reason? Bring that Lion down 😌😌💞💞

Now for the other reasons:

Besides the before statements where malleus and diasomnia and civilians could get hurt, we know even more now why he was furious.

Lilia went through battle and war to get Malleus to safety. It took him centuries to hatch Malleus. Malleus the one who showed him he can love. Malleus the son of his best friends. Malleus who he was able to spend time with at NRC finally because the senate made it hard for him to see him.

Silver, the boy who woke for him and he grew to love. The human who he changed his sleep schedule for and tried to raise and love a human. Sebek, the grandson of a friend. The boy who loves and respects him and he loves to tease. Both whom he adores and trained.

And Leona tried to hurt them?? And you expect him to not be furious??

(Also might I add that obs are supposed to be rare btw)

On top of that, you expect Lilia to be mature but then the same could not be said about Leona? But that aside, which one of us can be level headed when it comes to their loved ones being hurt?

On top of that, the excuse that Leona gave?? Of course Lilia would be angry over it. Lilia is malleus vice dorm leader, malleus probably told him the offer Crowley gave him. And here you are?? Trying to kill him when you could have done it through an easier route? (Yes I know book 2 has flaws in story)

I would also like to point out that Lilia does have parallels with Leona, and that can also be an added reason why he was so scathing to him (I talked about this before but they aren’t so different and I can talk about it again)

I would also like to bring up the fact that Leona’s already was falling into blot and turning before Lilia bit into him. He was already using his magic against his own dorm mates at this point.

Riddle and his dorms and lilia and his at this point was all attacking Leona. He thought Jack and the others betrayed him.

When Leona did OB, lilia was equally shocked and if you look at the animation even Leona seemed in disbelief.

Which means he was already on edge from the magic and someone probably had a hand in it too.

All in all, book 7 Lilia reflected in his actions to Leona. Lilia even states he regrets his actions and offers a hand in reconciliation which Leona conceded in his own way.

Seeing how stubborn NRC students can be?? If they can make amend and move on then why can’t the fans?

I could keep rambling away about this lolol

But Anonie, you shouldn’t have to feel like you need to hate lilia because of what others said. I would say to see less of that hate, I would mute and or block them.

You shouldn’t be looked down on for having a different opinion than others. If these comments are making you feel this way? Then please take the steps to look after yourself so you don’t get hurt.

All in all, Lilia had the right to be pissed off and I will defend his action in book 2 forever and always.

Also ahem ahem

That was one of his hottest moments in the game and he is welcome to do that any time and I would say all his action are right just for that look alone awooooga bark bark bark ❤️‍🔥❤️‍🔥❤️‍🔥❤️‍🔥❤️‍🔥

I hope you liked my rambling and I hope it made sense, Anonie 💞💞💚💚

I do hope you feel better and don’t let others bring you down or bring down your love for your faves. If they can’t be sensitive enough to know what they say might hurt you then they are not good friends (assuming these are friends). Also, please don’t be afraid to speak up if you do feel uncomfortable.

All in all, if you ever need someone to glaze Lilia. I’m your gal 😌😌💞💞

As far as I can see in my backlog? There are only individual pictures of Heartslabyul and Scarabia, respectively. Any other images I dug up that had Heartslabyul or Scarabia students present were part of group shots.

That being said, I don't claim to have everything Ugigiugi ever produced, just what people have submitted to me and what I did find when the initial call outs came out. If there is more stuff? We'd have to try and find it but it's much harder now since she has hidden a good chunk of her "art". Based on what I've observed and what people have told me, she has deleted her Twitter & Pinterest and locked/deleted her Pixiv account. According to people on DA if she has a Core Membership, she's likely using that to keep her art hidden/stored because of the gallery customization feature.

(As a side note: People who have DA accounts can still see some of the art she kept, but a lot of the controversial pieces, her Ibat Netjeru comics & art, and other "original items" are no longer visible. Many people assume that's why she keeps paying for that Core Membership, even though her reputation is pretty much tarnished and she has been essentially run off every platform.)

The truth is we don't know the totality of her art stealing. We just have numbers based on findings in art we do have and the sources we've been able to confirm.

If things look similar, it might be that again she does steal from a variety of artists but she also takes Twisted Wonderland assets so anything that looks "similar" is because of her "style" choice. Keep in mind she has been known to stitch many things from multiple art pieces to make a single drawing, creating what I've called "Franken-Art". She's also been exposed for reusing sources in multiple drawings so it's entirely possible you just spotted a repeating element. When it comes to her art theft, it is rampant yet pathetically predictable.

^ By Yosuga0101

Unfortunately, I can't say for certain if there are no Heartslabyul or Scarabia comics out there, nor could I give you an accurate count of how many plagiarized comic sets there were. When the callouts started, Ugigiugi panicked and tried to cover her tracks by hiding her "art". Part of the process many of us did was cross-reference items to ensure we had the correct source from which she had stolen. If we can verify that? It will get tallied and annotated in a folder of new findings as evidence.

Now as for how someone can have free time to trace versus learning to draw? Well, that depends on how much time she had in her RL to spend on all this and her choices. That can be broken down into a few theories people have but if you want a TLDR, here it is:

She wanted attention and validation but didn't have the skill to do it. To her it was easier to trace from others to get results vs skills.

Lack of accountability. She basically saw other people tracing and thought it was a valid excuse to do the same. (Tracing to study/improve skills is different then straight up tracing to steal).

Possible graphic designer background? This one is my personal theory due to how graphic designers are taught how to take "free" items online as assets during schooling. (This doesn't got for every GD school but its something I have observed from my own experience.)

I did have a deeper conversation about this with someone else. You can find that chain of conversion here if you want more in-depth details as to why I listed these things.

Now as for the 2nd half of this question, I again don't know much she had on her DeviantArt in total. By the time I got involved, I only saw her art gallery once on DeviantArt. I noticed it was at 1.5k pieces in March of 2023.

The above screenshot is a picture I took when I was trying to see how many TWST pieces she hid. I had originally seen 504 deviations and then it dropped to 482 (Ending at 310). I assume this is when she was doing damage control.

This is a screenshot I took this morning to verify that she went down from 1.5k to 545. In either case, because she was just tracing and not actually planning out her pieces, she was pretty much able to pump out a lot of traced artwork very fast. This discrepancy shows how much she probably stole. If you go on her profile now you'll most of her TWST art is either edited screenshots, fan writings, or other supplementary stuff like design sheets.

Now as for Ugi's behavior regarding her Ibat Netjeru and TWST stuff? That's a whole essay because this is gonna require a crash course in Mary Sue's/self-shipping (Yumeshipping) too.

As I said in an older post, I'm personally not one for self-shipping. It's not my cup of tea but I'm also not gonna tell people how they engage with their fandom spaces. (Mostly because I'm just here to vibe in my corner, I'm not a fandom policeman)

All that being said, to understand Ugigiugi's behavior, you have to understand why people create Mary Sues and participate in self-shipping. In my perspective, it falls into two main categories:

For fun

A type of parasocial comfort

Let's start with the first category. Mary Sues have a spectrum of different descriptions based on people's opinions. Our oldest known Mary Sue comes from the Star Trek Fandom. A Trekkie’s Tale (1973) Here's the link if you want to brush up on the origin.

If you personally asked me how I would describe a Mary Sue, I would describe them as an unbalanced character who has the narrative revolve around them, including the characters. Often the Mary-Sue is underdeveloped or developed to have disproportionate positive traits vs negative traits. They often steal the narrative or take over relationships the cast has because it's easier to self-insert an idealized character versus trying to learn to write how their character would actually interact with the cast. They can also be known to demote characters to tropes/strawmen or simps for the sake of centering their OC amongst the cast.

Most of the time it's for indulgence. Self-shipping is generally what Mary Sues and Selfshippers(Yumeshippers) do because they have "favs" they wanna draw or write about exclusively and while it can be for fun it also is a type of parasocial comfort.

Now compare that with Ugigiugi and what she's doing? She generally "tried" to have her own fun and fantasies play out. It's evident she was a fan of the Ennead comic and her desire to self-insert herself into it is what made her draw/write her Ibat Netjeru stories. The same thing can be said for Twisted Wonderland as well. She just self-inserted herself into the story to be the main focus of not just the story, but of the cast's lives in various degrees.

In Ibat Netjeru it seems she's the reincarnated daughter of the Egyptian god Anubis and is the love interest of Seth while also having other male characters hold affection for her to make her feel wanted by everyone. This is a power fantasy of her wanting to be a "designer of the gods". She wants her art to be desired by people and of course, get the attention and praise that comes with it. Low effort, high reward type of setup with the usual dramatic flare of the Egyptian gods in the background.

With Twisted Wonderland, it's no different. The main issue with her Mary Sue behavior is the information and story building makes no sense and is highly questionable in some areas when analyzed.

She's still using her adult age (older then Leona in fact), yet she goes to classes as a student? She hangs around Ace, Deuce, and the other first years who are canonically 16-years-old? What does a woman in her mid-20's have in common with teenagers? Not a lot I'd imagine. Flip the genders for a second. Would it be cool for a man in his mid-20's to be hanging around a bunch of high school girls? Talk about giving people the ick! There's also the fact she seems to flip-flop with how she chooses to represent their "friendships". Only a few notable ones she keeps boundaries with are her "not favs" Eveyrone else seems to get the flip-flop treatment between friends and romantic/intimate posing. She doesn't really consider where the boy's canon POV on boundaries, friendships, or how they want to present themselves.

....And even if her self-insert doesn't view the first years as potential "end-game" romantic partners, it seems to be the male gaze, affection, and attention she wants from them all to different levels of degree. Characters like Azul and Idia go to pieces around her, Jade and Floyd like to flirt with her (to the point of sexual harassment which gets treated as a punchline to a joke. Sourced here) and Leona…she's completely butchered his personality by portraying him as a pining simp who gets jealous every time she talks to Malleus, creating a frustrating love triangle given Leona's real personality. Hell, even the NPC students fawn over her!

But even when the characters aren't simping over her, she's still the center of their world. Or more accurately, she's strips them of their personalities to make herself the most important person in their lives or has written herself in places where other characters had relationships.

Examples:

She's Idia's fellow Otaku and gamer "healer" (he even goes so far as to call her Healer IRL) when in canon Idia plays with "CrimsonMuscle" (Lilia), wiping out that friendship entirely.

She inserted herself into Epel and Deuce's conversation on the beach in Chapter 5, casting herself as the one who helped, ruining Epel and Deuce's developing comradery.

She positions herself as Riddle's therapist (at least in one writing I saw).

At every turn she is there somewhere in these boys' (or even the teacher's) lives in a profound role or in ways that make no sense. She sells t-shirts she designed herself (the irony) in Sam's shop. Crewel and Vil both think she's stylish. Sebek calls her "Teacher" and asks her to be his drawing tutor. (Which is just her using Sebek as a springboard to "admire" her art skills)

Even the world bends to her power fantasy to the point it conflicts with world-building. She has a magipen and can fly a broom despite not being magical? It's implied she has some sort of connection to characters like Zeus and Maleficent. Hell, she was able to lift the Lightening Rod during Chapter 6's dungeon tower run and defeat at least one Titan (even tho Vil and the others struggled to lift or even control that thing).

The entire story of Twisted Wonderland warps to make her the most important person in EVERYONE'S lives.

Listen. I LIKE Lilia. I fully acknowledge that he’s a grown ass man and a father of three (I absolutely count Sebek in this) and he’s LITERALLY a decorated veteran.

But also like. He looks like a kid. It’s literally the whole “YES they look like a kid but ACTUALLY they’re 500 so TECHNICALLY it’s not weird!”

Leona’s murder attempt was pre-meditated. Unlike Vil, Leona spent quite a long time planning out everything he did in episode 2. He made sure the injuries happened in a way that couldn’t be linked back to him and that nobody could see Ruggie while he was using his unique magic. When it came to the actual murder, he even made a deal with Azul to ensure the event venue was set up in a certain way and that Ruggie got a potion to boost his magic before the whole thing started. Vil, on the other hand, snapped under momentary pressure, and didn’t spend weeks planning how to murder a rival over a competition.

Leona was ready to go through with it. I see a lot of people conveniently ignoring this but someone actually did die during Leona’s murder attempt – Cater’s clones did. Now, whether or not clone lives count as actual lives is irrelevant at the moment because all that matters is that Leona didn’t stop until there were bodies on the ground. Remember he watched the whole thing. He knew what was going on and when to stop. On the other hand, Vil immediately stopped the second a new element was introduced that snapped him out of whatever he was going on. Which brings me to my next point.

Leona acted with full clarity. Unlike Vil, Leona was fully in control the whole time. Vil was in a haze of reliving his past trauma, a haze that he snapped out of the second someone other than his target spoke to him. Leona, while motivated by past trauma, was fully in control of his actions.

Leona never showed any growth. This may be a controversial point for some people. And I understand that Leona is older than most of the other characters, however that does not make him stubbornly refusing to admit he did anything wrong any less jarring. Everyone showed tangible visible growth after their overblot, except Leona.

We are clear on what Leona wanted. With Vil, we never got a clear-cut confirmation that he was out for blood. We know something unsavory would’ve happened to Neige if he drank the apple juice, but truth is, it was never explicitly stated that he would die (if it was in EN, then just chuck that on the pile of things EN ruined). People just jumped to assuming murder because that’s what we’ve seen before and because Vil is associated with poinsons.

And when it comes to how their attempts were handled in-universe, let’s take a look at that.

Leona got called out by Lilia. It was vicious and rude, yes. Was it racist of Lilia to tear into Leona? No. No part of Lilia’s insults had to do with Leona’s race. He compared Leona with Malleus and evaluated which one of them has a personality more suited for a leader – the answer should be clear if you consider which one of them committed murder over a sports contest. This was also after Leona attempted to murder Lilia’s son, his son’s best friend, and a person he’s been taking care of for decades, or possibly even longer. Leona is lucky Lilia is no longer in his general days otherwise he’d likely be made into a throwrug, how handsome is up to your personal tastes. However, Leona’s call-out ended there with no further consequences other than being disqualified from the contest.

Vil got called out by nearly the entirety of the VDC group. Granted, it wasn’t that vicious or rude, but that’s because it didn’t get personal with anyone. Had he killed Neige, it wouldn’t personally affect any of the VDC group members. While Rook is a huge fan of Neige’s, that’s as far as it goes. However, Vil had lasting consequences from this lapse of judgement. You can find my full analysis of that mess here. That alone makes fans less eager to harp on him, since it at least feels like he got what he deserved – or possibly even more – while Leona gets to walk free with one verbal scolding.

Lastly, if you’re here to tell me to kms or harass me, do us both a favor and just click block and hide. I’ve got enough of that to the point where I just roll my eyes and block you back without it really affecting me. You’re just wasting your time as well as mine. You can think Lilia calling out Leona for murder was racist but at that point, you’re just willing to use skin color as a free get out of consequences card, and I have no desire to talk to people like that.

If you agree, feel free to share, if you’d like to respectfully debate, I’m 100% down for that too, just know that I tend to be pretty stubborn😅