#snake primary model

I feel like I've unburned and maybe got/dropped a new model or two and I would love to hear your opinion! I have a theory that either my primary or secondary (or a model?) is very loud and it’s confusing me.

Let's sort you out :D

I like debates and I love poking holes in other people’s logic (and my own as well). And I love playing the devil’s advocate, it’s one of my favourite pastimes, I sometimes argue against a point I actually agree with just because I can

I used to do this all the time. I was a menace in Sunday school. It's a very Bird secondary thing to do for sure... but the way you're describing it makes it sound a little like a toy. It's totally possibly you've got a beloved Bird secondary model here.

especially when somebody’s being very close-minded and self-righteous which drives me up the wall.

This little bit is making me lean Idealist primary. Like there's nothing so annoying as someone who hasn't considered it properly... but acts like they have.

Mind you, it’s usually with people who know me well and if it isn’t, I’d probably make it clear that I agree with the sentiment, just not the reasoning. Or that I’m just trying to see things from another perspective. Or I wouldn’t make it clear at all and watch the chaos unfold just for the hell of it (mind you, I wouldn’t do this if the topic was something important to me or if I had even the slightest interest of ever becoming friendly with this person).

You enjoy playing intellectual games with people you know or respect... and sometimes you also like to troll. Yeah, that's pretty much how it goes.

I never judge people based solely on what they believe in and I have a very low opinion of people who do. I think abortion is a basic right every woman should have but I can also think of several valid reasons why a person might be against it. You can’t infer who somebody is or what they believe in based on a single belief. I see people as people not as belief systems and I sure as hell don’t think of them in terms of good and evil.

Well, I would hope so. That's the entire premise of this entire system. That's why we're all here.

I'm interested in the two sentiments "somebody... being very close-minded and self-righteous... drives me up the wall." and "I never judge people based solely on what they believe in." Like maybe I'm being too much of a Lion here, but that definitely seems a judgement passed on people because of their beliefs. Or is it more how the beliefs are *presented* that annoys you? How they're *arrived* at?

That's my current working theory, and it's a very Bird primary worldview. 'Believe what you want, just be able to back it up, or I can't respect you.' 'Have "valid reasons" for thinking what you think.'

There is some Loyalist language here, though. "I see people not as belief systems" etc. So I'm keeping an eye on that.

We’re all only human and anybody who thinks you can be purely one or the other is being too idealistic for my taste and unable see the full picture.

Healthy Idealists don't think that. Thinking that people come only in the flavors "good" and "evil" is a very Exploded thing, and you get it with Exploded Birds, Exploded Lions, and Exploded Badgers as well. (It can also be a sign of an Immature Badger or Immature Bird. It's not a particularly sustainable, or healthy thing to think, is my point.)

However... it does sound like you've got someone in your life who relies on those talking points.

I value friendships above all else. Gaining my trust takes time but once you do, I’m extremely loyal. It takes a lot for me to end a friendship, if anything I’m too understanding and patient.

Hmm. Again with the Loyalist language. You like Loyalists, that's for sure. And I'm starting to think you want me to tell you that you're a Loyalist.

One thing I would never tolerate is people ignoring my boundaries. If a friend teases me about something that’s a sore spot once, that’s a mistake, I tell them not to do it again and forget it ever happened. If they ignore me and keep doing it or they start prying and demanding explanations why it’s a sore spot instead of just accepting it, that’s the end of the friendship and, as far as they’re concerned, I’m going to disappear off the face of the earth never to be heard from again.

So really, you value freedom and boundaries above all else. That's classically a Lion primary thing. This idea that safety exists in the ability to go off and do your own thing... and if you're doing your own thing alone that is /fine/

It's possible you're fiercely guarding your boundaries NOW after having been "too understanding and patient" in the past. Maybe you have (or used to have) Badger in your system. But for now, I'm reading Lion. Maybe one that's slightly burnt, and protective of themselves.

I’ve known a lot of people who love to tell me how I really feel or how I should feel or even who I am and I have zero tolerance for that.

OH. That's Lion. That focus on "how I feel IS me" and having this intense anger at anyone who pushes back against that.

I don’t need or want other people to tell me who I am, I know who I am, you can take it or leave it, I’m not going to apologise for it or pretend to be somebody else to fit the image others have of me.

This could be either Lion primary or Lion secondary, but the fact that we know that you love to troll, act a part, do a bit for fun... means that this sentiment is probably coming from your primary.

You can argue about what or how I think but you don’t get to tell me my feelings are wrong.

Lion primary, especially with how much emphasis this point is getting.

It takes a lot of trust before I open up to somebody and if their reaction is being dismissive or condescending, we can’t be friends.

That's a human thing.

I love my friends more than anything and that’s why I don’t immediately jump in to defend them. I trust them to take care of themselves and if they need my help, they can always ask for it but I’m not going to force it onto them.

I suspect that this is also a Lion primary thing. Lions value freedom more than anything, and so they show love by giving others freedom. You respect others by acknowledging that they know themselves best, and will ask for help if they need it.

(Actually, a *very common* Idealist/Loyalist miscommunication is when an Idealist views a Loyalist's "checking in" as being clingy/suspicious/infantilizing, and a Loyalist views an Idealist's "live and let live" as cold/uncaring/forgetful.)

I’ve had a lot of experience with exploded authoritarian badgers (I seem to attract all the unhealthy badger primaries within a ten-mile radius, lucky me eh)

Yeah, I thought you probably had some very binary black/white decision makers in your life.

so I’m very adamant about letting people make their own decisions and I expect the same in return. I don’t respond well to people trying to “help” me when I don’t want their help, it makes me feel weak and like I’m being treated like a child or an idiot. Actually, if somebody kept doing that, it might also end the friendship (though I guess you could put this one under ignoring boundaries too).

That's a human thing, but it's a human thing that would hit a Lion primary especially hard. Because offering to help a Lion who doesn't need help is going to feel very *personal,* very "you are not seeing/respecting the inner truth of my being" in a way it just wouldn't to a Badger, Lion, or Snake.

I’m reasonably good at planning but I don’t think it’s anything to do with my secondary, it’s just common sense and good time management.

I promise you, it doesn't feel that way to everyone. It feels that way to you... because you're a Bird secondary, or have a strong Bird secondary model.

I’m a decent cook and my favourite method is throw stuff in and see what happens but if I’m making an actual dish that exists for the first time, I’m going to look at the recipe. If I have 10+ exams in one week, I’ll make a list of what I need to study for first. My resources (time, money, patience) are limited and I’m not redoing something simple multiple times just because I refuse to be organised about it.

Bird bird bird bird rapid fire bird.

I love thinking on my feet. I generally believe that the best way out is through but I’m not going to stand there and bang my head against the wall when it’s clearly not working. I also know how to approach a problem from several angles and use my knowledge/skills to solve it (I have a lot of those because collecting knowledge and skills is so fun, their hypothetical usefulness is irrelevant as long as I’m enjoying the process). I try to always choose the right method for the problem.

🐦 🐦 🐦 🐦 🐦 🐦 🐦 🐦 🐦 🐦 

The one thing I want to point out is that if the problem is something important to me, I’m not going to do the whole which method would work best thing. That’s for boring, everyday stuff. If somebody is interfering with me (like that example with people ignoring my boundaries), I will dig my heels in and you’d have more luck convincing an entire mountain to move out of the way than getting me to budge even an inch. I might break but I will never bend.

... that's the Lion primary talking. Notice how you're not talking about problem solving/going about your life normally anymore. You're talking about metaphysical threats to who you are, what you stand for, and what you want.

The most typical example I can think of is if somebody does something I explicitly told them not to do and has the gall to act like I’m being ungrateful and irrational because clearly it’s for my own good, I just don’t know it, I will absolutely tear them apart and feel justified about it too. It’s one thing when it’s people I’m not that close to but I expect my friends to have the decency to stab me in the front. I need to be able to trust them and lying or pretending to be doing something for me when it’s clearly for their own benefit is the worst kind of betrayal (worst part is I would kill for my friends, so if they do or don’t want me to do something, for whatever reason, all they have to do is ask and I’ll most likely listen unless it’s something very important to me, in which case I would expect them to accept it anyway, because that’s what friends do –

'I need to be able to trust the people around me me. If they ask me not to do/not do something, I'll do it unless it's one of the things that I really care about. And then if they don't accept that, it's a dealbreaker.'

Very Lion primary.

this obviously only applies to the person I'm closest to (usually one), it’s like a special privilege if you will, I do what I want but I will take into consideration the opinion of this one person because I care about them so much).

I'm willing to believe that you've probably built a Snake primary model for this one person. That makes sense, and it also helps make sense of why you love the fierce loyalty you tend to see with Snake so much.

Sorry there’s not a lot of (any?) concrete real-life examples but my mind went completely blank for some reason. I think writing this helped me figure it out myself (I’m still unsure about the models) but I’d still love to find out what you think!

I think that you're a Lion primary who was probably Burned at some point in the past. (It's very possible that you modeled Exploded Badger primary.) You started to adopt some of the Bird primary language that is common to a lot of Burnt Lion primaries, and it's also possible that you latched onto your Snake Person, who was a much more positive influence than all the Authoritarian Badgers in your life. Currently your primary isn't Burnt, but it is... protective, and very careful not to put itself in situations where Burning becomes likely.

Context: Hello everyone! @wisteria-lodge asked the shc community if we would like to help answering some asks, and a number of us volunteered, so this is a reply to one of those asks.

For context: Wisteria asked the community if we'd like to answer some asks to get to them more quickly, and I (among others) volunteered. And, quite frankly, she sent this one to one of the most opinionated best people regarding its content, because

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, absolutely

I have a snake primary model that works in conjunction with my lion primary, but even without it, I've got plenty of snake baked into my system.

When it's just the lion-with-snake-morals, it comes off as more of a champion to me - I keep to my word, I was given responsibility over these people when in this role, and I will take care of them. Wisteria has actually talked about that flavor of loyalty here, and I completely agree with it, but that's not the only kind.

The snake morals baked into my system, on the other hand, are much more immediate to me. It's for the people I love, the people I chose, and it doesn't activate until one of them needs help. I can't always tell if it's the snake primary model or the snake-baked-into-lion because it's such an core part of me that it'd be difficult to untangle. It reaches into some of the instinctive drives - to care for, to protect - that feel almost feral. Those people are mine and I want them to live full, happy lives doing whatever will bring them satisfaction. I want them to be free and safe; anything that truely threatens that is one of the few things that would bring me to the point of honest-to-god-fury.

I would be surprised if this was exclusive to lions and snakes, but when looking at these things within myself, they're inextricably intertwined.

(I was gonna hold off on posting this until I was absolutely certain about the sorting, because sorting this show is like pulling teeth. But then last night I had a dream about Lila trying to ruin Marinette’s birthday with the usual lesbian subtext you would expect from two girls who hate each other and when I woke I had this second ask in my inbox so I figure the universe is tryna tell me something)

This is a hard one. There are some things we have to consider with Miraculous Ladybug. (warning this gets long)

1. It’s inconsistent with its characters on a good day. 

2. The creators are very much pushing an unhealthy-keep the peace and be nice to everyone including bullies and toxic people because they are people to-Badger primary narrative.

3. While it’s not unhealthy like the primary, the show also pushes a Badger secondary narrative. They like their Badger secondaries and what show wants to teach is that Pure Badgers are the best sorting possible. 

So it becomes hard to see what is an actual character moment, and what’s the creators using a character as a mouthpiece. Marinette gets fucked over by this because the show deliberately has her do things wrong so they can enforce lessons. This is especially hard with Adrien because he is the show’s golden boy favorite which means he does everything right and almost always spouts out the lesson of the day. It’s safe to say that if Marinette and Adrien aren’t already Badgers they have badger primary models. Adrien because showrunners, Marinette because Adrien’s peddling it to her.

(I wanna make it very clear that I’m not insulting Badger primaries in this post, but unhealthy Badger primaries where bad people get away with bad things just because they are people)

So MARINETTE DUPAIN-CHENG/LADYBUG...I think she’s a burnt Bird. She can’t be naturally a Badger because she has to constantly be told by people to act like a Badger. Give Chloe a million chances even if she bullied you for years and is horrible to everyone around her and has no desire to change. Don’t expose Lila for being a liar who gives out false promises and also wants to destroy Ladybug and teams up with Hawkmoth. 

It also explains her unhealthy Snake primary she has for Adrien. A lot of the time her motivation, her why, will be because Adrien! Why does she get Adrien to come with them on the trip to New York? Because if not he’ll be left alone with Lila and she’s jealous! And also I guess because Adrien should get to do fun things. Why did she choose Adrien to be Aspik? Because she’s in love with him and he’s perfect! But that’s not her, it doesn’t work for her. Part of that is the world telling her if she ever tries to pursue Adrien it’ll backfire in her face, but also it’s not natural for her. She fell for Adrien and because her primary is burnt she placed meaning in him, building a Snake primary for him-and then a drowned Badger primary model once he started lecturing her about it. 

And yes I do think her Badger primary model is drowned. She gives her all to everything, and is always convinced that doing anything seemingly selfish is bad (which is weird because the narrative also has Alya constantly trying to convince her to be selfish and date Adrien). She won’t let herself confess to Adrien because that will literally lead to the end of the world. She also gives up trying to pursue Adrien because she wants him to be happy with Kagami. She gives up a job opportunity to help save Paris (which was the right choice but doesn’t disprove my point). She is told by Mme. Bustier that she has to be an example and that she has to stay calm and keep the peace and give everything for other people. She is slowly over the series starting to drown. 

Now admittedly she could be a burnt Lion originally, we don’t ever see her before her burning. But, the reason why I say Bird is because she seems more eager for people to tell her what is right and what is wrong. What is true? Burnt Lions, I can say from experience, don’t like as much to be told what is right and wrong. They want to know of course, but there will be a part of them that is unhappy and when they are told by other people they’ll be more sad about it if it doesn’t gel with their gut. It’ll just be another reason why they’re wrong and they’ll stay burnt longer. On the other hand, Marinette is eager to be told what is true from people, she wants to know and when people tell her she takes it in and immediately follows it. I say she’s a burnt bird because she doesn’t trust herself to make the right decision unless it’s black and white, akuma v. hero. The snap judgements she makes are because she’s burnt and therefore she flounders when unable to ask what she should do and just does because if she thinks she’ll come to the wrong decision. So impulsive decision time. (Miraculous Ladybug is a really depressing show if you think of Marinette as a real person)

Or she’s a burnt Lion and I just went on a tangent for no reason. 

 Now you’d think think that sorting out her secondary would be easier, but NO. The only thing easy about her secondary is that she is definitely not a Lion secondary. 

Now she definitely has a two models. One of her models is a Badger obviously. She takes on projects and works herself to death. She also takes on a caring role usually and works as a leader. She manages to charm people almost instantly and then she has them on her side for basically forever. I only say this is a model because her plans never really include other people or calling in favors. 

But now I have to decided if she is a rapid fire Bird or a Snake originally and which one is her model. I wanna say that she’s a Snake originally. Her plans are usually incredibly under the fly. She’ll just look around the area, see what she has to work with, and then immediately have the plan. It’s not usually based off of prior knowledge (although that happens a fair amount to). She also does things like steal phones and bicycles a fair amount (classic Snake traits) and has on more than one occasion lied her way out of a situation. 

Now her Bird model is not unimportant. I say she isn’t originally a bird because she never has a back up plan. Plan A fails and she has to freak out for a bit before she makes a new plan on the fly. Her bird model is something she used to play with before she became a hero I think. She gained many skills in the art world-especially fashion-, baking, gaming, etc. just for the fun of it. Then she became a hero and used that planning skill to good work. How do I defeat the akuma and convince Chat Noir that I’m not Marinette? Obviously I’ll shrink myself down into many versions of me wearing all the miraculouses so I can climb in the kwamis’ mouths, take Chat Noir’s ring from him, get sucked into the kwami pack so I can break it from the inside with the Cat miraculous, then I’ll make an illusion of me as Ladybug getting the akuma and me as Multimouse taking off my miraculous because I’m just such a goof and then when Chat leaves I’ll capture the real akuma and transform back. 

Compare that to Chat’s plan of, say the school is a elementary school. 

But honestly it could go either way.

Adrien is much easier to sort compared to Marinette’s spastic characterization.

ADRIEN AGRESTE/CHAT NOIR has a strong Badger primary model, which is hilarious because he sucks at it. The boy is actually a Snake primary just like his father (he ALSO has an unhealthy primary but we’ll get to that). Lila lying to his class-his community-and giving them empty promises? He doesn’t care, he wants to keep the peace! He’s gonna be nice to her and try to sway her the side of good from the sidelines-wait what’s this? Lila made his friend Kagami jealous which caused her to be akumatized and also tried to get Ladybug killed? What an outrage! He’s not gonna try to be friends with her anymore! Wait, Lila got Marinette expelled through bullshit?! How dare she! Now he’s going to force her to take it all back so Marinette can be happy!

He doesn’t get upset when his community is threatened, he only gets mad when his people are threatened. In Chat Blanc he is forced to choose between killing his father or killing Ladybug (who is his girlfriend because it’s another timeline), which is a classic Snake problem. Chat doesn’t think about how if he kills his father instead he’ll save all of Paris, he just can’t decide and ends up destroying the world with his indecision. “Our love [destroyed the world]” he says to Ladybug. That’s very Snake primary and seems to me like an unhealthy Snake primary. His dream is to move away to an island alone with Ladybug, which says something about the differences between them. Marinette’s dream is have a large family with Adrien. 

His secondary is harder because I can’t tell if he has a Badger secondary or a Lion secondary. The thing is the way the shows treats the different identities is that Ladybug and Adrien are the masks for Marinette and Chat (I did not do this for Marinette though). That means that a more accurate reading for Adrien’s sorting should theoretically be looking at Chat. Chat definitely has a Lion secondary. His first instinct is always attack first attack attack attack. Most of the time the reason the battle drags on is because Chat is jumping in too soon. When he doesn’t jump in it’s because he’s pissed at Ladybug for rejecting him. Also, the one time we see him do a plan, the plan is dress up in a makeshift suit and attack the enemy. 

But he definitely has a Badger secondary model. How will he make Lila stop antagonizing Marinette? He’ll act like he’s her friend and let her model with him. How does he try to impress his father, by taking a bunch of classes and modelling for him. It’s a model though, one I think he built after his mother “disappeared” to try and cheer up his father. 

I know you probably wanted more so rapid fire:

ALYA CESAIRE is a Lion primary who makes impulsive decisions and only doesn’t when the plot needs her to. She’s got an immature Bird secondary as well, immature as in she gains a piece of information and her Lion primary then makes her go crazy over it. 

CHLOE BOURGEOIS is snake primary who cares about herself and those closest to her until she doesn’t, and a Lion secondary who charges in because she’s stupid with a shitty Snake secondary model she adopted from her parents.

GABRIEL AGRESTE/HAWKMOTH is a Snake primary who cares only about his wife, sometimes Natalie, and sometimes Adrien. Also a Bird secondary who makes big elaborate plans that always fail.

NATALIE SANCOEUR/MAYURA is a Snake primary who does things for Adrien and Gabriel because she loves them, and another Bird secondary who has a very nice skillset and and helps Gabriel with his plans. She does also have a Badger secondary because she works very hard and uses herself as a weapon, but it’s not her go to. 

(yes I know I didn’t sort Nino or Lila, but Nino is practically a non-character and Lila might have a Lion primary and I don’t wanna have to put much more thought into this post. Maybe later)

so...

Marinette Dupain-Cheng/Ladybug - Burnt Bird primary (maybe burnt Lion) with a drowned Badger model and an unhealthy Snake model for Adrien/Snake secondary with a Bird model (possibly switched) and a (possibly unhealthy) Badger model

Adrien Agreste/Chat Noir - Snake primary/Lion Secondary, double Badger model

Alya Cesaire - Lion primary/immature Bird secondary

Gabriel Agreste/Hawkmoth - Snake primary/Bird secondary

Natalie Sancoeur/Mayura - Snake primary/Bird secondary, Badger secondary model

Chloe Bourgeois - Snake primary/Lion secondary

strickler is a badger who works toward the long-term good of one community--changelings--while also dehumanizing the hell out of them because that's what people are taught to think about changelings, including changelings themselves. and he can't do what he does with the humans, playacting at being a beloved and helpful citizen of his community because he can pretend for a little while that he's not working toward their deaths.

with humans it's all Good Fuzzy Community Feelings now; with changelings he has to ignore their pain, perpetuate their abuse, commit atrocities against them now, and he can't fucking handle it. so he shuts it off. he can work for 'the good of all changelings,' but he can't look individual changelings in the face and care or it will destroy him. he's a badger who's been so thoroughly broken as a person, who relies so utterly on cognitive dissonance to keep living, that he looks like an idealist--a horrifying one--and it fucks me up. it fucks me up so bad.

it's also what makes his arc in s1 so compelling to me, because it's the story of him being shoved out of the status quo and unbreaking. his horror and reluctance at realizing jim is the trollhunter, that he's going to be forced to dehumanize him; the nasty shock of both his lives crashing into each other in a way he can't cognitive-dissonance away any longer; the wakeup call of losing one of his communities after how he's treated them for so long because he taught them to dehumanize him too; the life-changing experience of having someone stand up for him by affirming his humanity for once... fuck, man. fuck.

Because they feel like the exception. 'This is how I normally go through the world, how my morals usually are. But this one person... is special.'

Hi! I absolutely love the way you sort people, and I’ve been having such a good time reading your posts! I’m not sure if I’m at the right place to submit this, so please forgive me if I submitted it at the wrong place.

I was hoping you’d be able to help me with my sorting. I’ve done the quiz from sortinghatchats a few times and I’ve given it much thought, but I just can’t seem to clearly figure it out. I also want to apologize right away in case this turns out to be a novel.

Four sentences and two apologies, I think a Burnt secondary is extremely likely.

 My parents are a badger and a snake, so I think it is fair to say to people and community are important for my family.

Loyalist family culture, got it.

I, too, tend to want to help people whenever I can, feeling the most useful when I can be helpful towards others. However, I look after people, not groups. Even in my friend group, it is more about my personal link with each of my friends than with the group as a whole.

That sounds pretty darn Snake primary.

And I noticed that I’m rather uncomfortable in group settings. I struggle when I find myself in a group, especially a large group. Although I am not diagnosed, I do have some social anxiety tendencies, so I’m not sure if this has anything to do with my primary or if this is more of a “person thing”.

I'm going to go with person thing. You can *absolutely* bond with a group while disliking group settings. Gilmore Girls comes to mind as a show that really goes for 'introverted, easily overwhelmed Badger primary' as a character type.

One thing I know is that I’m all about loyalty.

Okay.

It takes me a while to trust people because of past experiences, but once I do, I’m in it for the long run, and I’ll always stick by their side.

So far, looks like we've got a pretty loud Snake primary.

I’m terrified at the idea of disappointing or hurting the ones that I love (that doesn’t apply to strangers though), it is literally my biggest fear.  

Hmmm. Usually writing about fear like this means you've got some Burning somewhere. Possibly your secondary? I'll keep an eye on that.

That doesn’t mean I won’t tell them if I think they’ve done something wrong, because some things are just wrong, but it doesn’t mean I care about them any less. For example, if I found out that someone in my inner circle did something wrong (let’s say illegal or crime related), of course I wouldn’t agree with what they’ve done because some things are just wrong, but I don’t think it would mean that I would kick them out of my circle. Unless they did something really awful, like intentionally hurt someone else or murder someone, then these are things that I don’t think I could forgive, because it’s just wrong. I’m also fully conscious that this is an extreme scenario.

It is, and extreme hypothetical situations don't tell me much. But "some things are just wrong, but it doesn’t mean I care about [the person who does them] any less" DOES... sound pretty Snake.

If I can give some other examples, I’ve been in a relationship in the past where my ex was treating me rather poorly. And it took me two years to get out of that relationship because I cared about the guy and I loved him, so I wanted to believe him when he said he was sorry, and he would be careful not to do those things again.

Bad relationships can and do happen to any primary... but I do wonder if they might not be especially sticky for Loyalists.

 The same thing happened with a friend of mine in elementary school: we were both part of a common friend group, but she soon got into fights with our other friends because she was being verly critical towards them and treating them badly. They all stopped being friends with her, but I tried to keep our friendship going, because she was my friend too (for longer also) and she hadn’t done anything to me. But I stopped being friends with her when she made other friends and ignore me or act like it was a chore to be friends with me.

You've got to love the way a Snake will always put their foot down when someone's hurting THEM. Because they are one of their People as well.

Since I have a “turning point” where even if someone is part of my inner circle they could get potentially kicked out, I’ve been wondering if maybe I could be a lion primary whose cause resembles a lot of snake’s loyalties.

I'm inclined to believe that you're such a loud Snake that you kinda think that everyone else must be like that too, deep down?

That, or you're just torturing yourself with hypotheticals like "what if it turned out that one of my people was Jack the Ripper?"

It brings me to a particular sentence in the sortinghatchats’ description for lion primaries: “They have a strong belief in the value of moral compasses. Some things are just wrong, no matter how many pretty words you use.” I feel like this is exactly what I’ve been describing previously, with my example of hurting or murdering someone. For me, this is just wrong, no matter how you try to explain it (except self-defense of course, in which case it is totally justifiable and right).

So you know, it's just wrong. Except maybe the person who did it hypothetically had a good reason...

The loudest Snake in the world will still say that like, serial killers are immoral. And why wouldn't they? Someone who is capable of hurting or murdering someone is capable of hurting or murdering you. This is why I don't love using scenarios that big. Every Primary is going to agree with a statement like "hate crimes are bad" or "torture is bad" because there's just too much going on there. EVERYONE is going to find a way to connect their primary with it.

But even then, they’re still someone I loved, and I’ll probably always care for them in some way, even if I can’t have them in my circle anymore because of what they did.

Snake. If you were a lion and they crossed the line that badly... you wouldn't care for them anymore. But then, we're still dealing with hypotheticals.

So, I think it’s safe to say that my primary is probably snake, or snake with a lion model for when my inner circle is safe, or lion with a moral compass that resembles a snake. Unless I read myself completely wrong and you’ll see something else entirely.

It's totally possibly you present as a Lion when your people are safe, many Snakes do. But I haven't seen Lion so far in what you've written.

For my secondary, I’m pretty sure I have a model or a performance somewhere.

Most people do.

I have no problem showing a different side of myself depending on the people I am with, as long as it is still truly me. What I mean by that is that I’m not going to fake something about me just to please others. I do act differently at work than with my family or my friends, but it is always my authentic self still. And I hate lying. I’ll do it when necessary, but as a last resort.

Hmm. Focus on "authentic self" and "no lying," that's going be a You Move secondary like Lion or Badger. Leaning Badger - Lions don't talk about different "sides" of themselves so much as they talk about a raising or lowering of intensity.

However, I’m not a very confident person, so I don’t charge like most lion secondaries will. I will tell the truth and stay true to myself, but not in a confrontational way. I'm known in my friend group to be the one who will take care of my friends

Oh, Badger secondary. For sure.

but will also remind them to always stay true to themselves and not change in other to please someone else. After all, if the other person can't appreciate you for who you truly are, do they really deserve you?

That's your Snake primary talking. You love *your* people, and what is someone else doing, coming in and taking them away from you? That's some interesting emphasis on *intrinsic identity as worth* though. It's the first thing you've said that sounded even a little bit Lion Primary.

I’m also a planner. I love making lists and tables. I tend to plan my days entirely (and precisely), but I can also change my plans depending on what I feel. I will also tend to have many backup plans that I can also modify depending on my mood and what I feel.

I'm hearing that you have a Bird secondary model which you use to plan and set things up... but in the moment, on the day, your more automatic, subconscious Badger secondary takes over.

I am curious and love to read/learn about different subjects, particularly psychology and criminology. I will document what I find and read about those subjects, even if I’ll never have to use them again. When I find a new hobby, I tend to become a little intense: I want to learn everything and anything that I can about it, and it might become the only thing I'm interested in for a while.

That is person stuff, specifically neurodivergent person stuff (which we already knew was the case with you.) It sounds like you have the classic fun neurodivergent bird secondary model.

 I also resonate with the badger secondary since I like to surround myself with people I trust, and I’ll ask for their opinion when comes the time to solve a problem. But I hate the work.

Oooh, interesting. Elaborate.

Yes, I’ll show up and do the work, but not because I like it. More because I feel like I have to, like it is what is expected of me. If I can find a shortcut or an easier way, I will gladly take it. I am completely incapable of studying a little everyday or to do a little bit of an assignment everyday in order to finish it in advance. I'm a procrastinator, which means I'll more likely cram my studying the night before the exam or complete the entire assignment in one day (usually the day before it is due).

Fear is a bad motivator. It's a bad reason to do (or not do) stuff. You say that you're "terrified at the idea of disappointing or hurting the ones I love" and you do things you "feel are expected of you." It sure sounds like that, whatever you're doing, it's something you yourself don't care much about and don't want to do... so OF COURSE working on it is a chore.

And using the adrenaline of it's-due-tomorrow to hack your brain into doing a non-preferred task, that's just executive functioning and neurodivergent stuff. I did exactly that for a long long time.

But it will be done to the best of my capacities, even if it means I'll have to stay up all night.

^^^^ that right there is what makes you a Badger secondary. It feels bad, it feels almost immoral to half-ass something.

In an ideal world, if I wasn’t terrified at the idea of disappointing my loved ones (inner circle), I would follow my instincts, my feelings, and my emotions in order to make decisions.

WAIT. JUST ONE MINUTE.

You write an entire post sounding as Snake as anything... and then hit me with "In a perfect world, if I wan't so scared all the time, I would be a LION PRIMARY."

Are you a very burned Lion Primary (fear = burning) who just LOOKS very Snake, because you've latched on to your family's Loyalist morality? Are you getting your morality from a *specific* Snake in your life (maybe one of your parents?)

I guess you could be a Snake who really loves Lions... except Snakes don't tend to love Lions... and actual Snake primaries, they're not loyal to their people out of fear.

I also always tend to look at the bigger picture and make sure I have all the information available before I make a decision or choose the best way to solve a problem. And if I don't have that information, I'll search for it before I take my final decision. I hate having to take decision in the spur of the moment. I feel unprepared and insecure.

I mean, you're not an improvisational secondary, but we knew that.

I feel like my secondary is probably either bird or lion, with a badger model maybe? As you can see, I'm a little confused!

You're a Badger secondary, who thinks you should have a *better* Badger secondary, but your secondary isn't actually burnt. That fear and need to apologize seem to be coming more from your primary, I'm sorry to say.

I hope there is enough information in there to help you in your sorting. Thank you immensely for taking the time to read this, and take care of yourself!

Thank you. :) Think you answered your own question here - this sure sounds like a Snake model.