#idealist primary

I have absolutely been accused of being judgmental and holier-than-thou. I suspect most Idealists have.

And there are some categories of people I judge extremely harshly and probably always will. Teachers and parents who use their authority to bully children is a big one. I don't care what the context is, I will grind you into the fucking ground.

But here's a silly one. I used to be SUPER judgy of people who named their kids diminutives. Like if the kid was named "Kate" or "Rick" instead of "Katherine" or "Richard." But then I actually learned about names and realized that "Alison" and "Aiden" and "Nancy" and a million others were ALSO diminutives, and actually diminutives split off into their own independent names all the time, and it would be really silly for me to poo-poo some diminutives and not others, and actually the whole thing was me being elitist and gross. And now I don't judge people's names anymore.

In a lot of ways, this whole SHC project of mine is an exercise in not judging people. It's a lot harder to judge specific behavior/traits when you see the vulnerable, hurting human being on the other side. Because yeah, those platitudes like "you never know what someone else is going though" never did much for me either. Hypothetical knowledge isn't going to cut it. But it really does become much harder to judge the erratic driver, when you've had to calm down some terrified 16 year old who thought they were ready to drive on the freeway, and weren't.

I've noticed that I tend to think "Lion!" when I see a character passionately arguing or fighting for a certain idea or belief. But of course Birds can be passionate, too, right? Every primary can.

For context: Wisteria asked the community if we'd like to answer some asks to get to them more quickly, and I (among others) volunteered. And, quite frankly, she sent this one to one of the most opinionated best people regarding its content, because

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, absolutely

I have a snake primary model that works in conjunction with my lion primary, but even without it, I've got plenty of snake baked into my system.

When it's just the lion-with-snake-morals, it comes off as more of a champion to me - I keep to my word, I was given responsibility over these people when in this role, and I will take care of them. Wisteria has actually talked about that flavor of loyalty here, and I completely agree with it, but that's not the only kind.

The snake morals baked into my system, on the other hand, are much more immediate to me. It's for the people I love, the people I chose, and it doesn't activate until one of them needs help. I can't always tell if it's the snake primary model or the snake-baked-into-lion because it's such an core part of me that it'd be difficult to untangle. It reaches into some of the instinctive drives - to care for, to protect - that feel almost feral. Those people are mine and I want them to live full, happy lives doing whatever will bring them satisfaction. I want them to be free and safe; anything that truely threatens that is one of the few things that would bring me to the point of honest-to-god-fury.

I would be surprised if this was exclusive to lions and snakes, but when looking at these things within myself, they're inextricably intertwined.

I'm not about cause than community, but I don't know I could go it alone.

I don't really know how that fits with my Badger primary model cause I don't really understand it very well. What I do know though is that it would take a ten times bigger disagreement with my family before I'd consider cutting myself off from them. They are home and I don't know that'll I'd find anyone else that would love me how they do. (Not that I don't think anyone could love me, it's just that I don't know how to find them.)

It's about the order the two things come in. A Lion feels something, and the feeling *is true.* And then they have to circle back and figure out why that's the case. Some lions are good at explaining why they think things, or can come up with something good in the moment, but it's a second step. They feel first.

Birds feel, and the feeling is data, but it's not *true.* They need to work out their reasoning first, and then their reasoning is true.

An example. I have a Bird friend whose system doesn't have a problem with polyamory, but felt weird about it because of religious upbringing and all that jazz. So, they deliberately went about "getting my feelings in line" and changing the way they felt about it to match the existing system.

Hi! Thank you for creating your Tumblr! I’ve really enjoyed reading your blog, and all of the content you’ve created about the SHC system, but I’m still kind of stumped about what my sorting is. I’m wondering whether you might be able to help me? Primary-wise, I think I might be a loyalist sorting. I definitely have morals and standards and everything, but if push came to shove and someone came to me looking for help after they had gone against one of my morals, I feel like I’d have my reaction if I need to, before I try to comfort them and help fix the problem. There’s enough flexibility in me to allow for this as far as I’ve experienced. If they were unapologetic about the situation, maybe that would be different- that would be harder, and I’d question whether I really knew them.

Hmm. This is a little too abstract to help me much. "What would I do if my best friend asked me to hide a body" is an interesting hypothetical question, but it's too big for me to get clean data off it.

I don’t really have too much of a problem going cold on people if I feel there has been a serious wrong done. I don’t know if I could ever cut off someone who was really important to me, though. What feels wrong to me is if someone is not respecting other people’s boundaries, including my own.

You know this is starting to sound pretty Idealist. People-centric ideals, sure... but it's coming at the issue from the perspective of the abstract ideals, not the people affected.

Also if someone is not respecting other people’s time and genuine effort. It doesn’t feel fair.

And now I'm wondering if you're a Badger secondary. THIS sentence sounds like the specific wrath of a thwarted Badger secondary.

I think people are capable of change, and assuming otherwise does them a disservice. I have a bit of a thing about what is fair to people - it even came down to the equal proportioning of snacks my siblings and I shared when we were kids (they’d just roll their eyes). I was also definitely a follower of rules and overly concerned with doing things the right way where it mattered (I wasn’t as sorry for the couple of detentions I received for not bringing my equipment or parts of my uniform, for example, than I would have been if I’d done something that impacted someone else or involved not doing my work).

TEXTBOOK. BADGER. SECONDARY.

I’m not sure I can name any characters I relate to, but one character not giving what feels like a fair chance to another is an easy way for me not to relate to them (like some of the Gaang not giving Zuko a chance in Avatar as an example).

Gee I wish I had a more specific example. (And I wish I knew the show better.) Because Katara gives Zuko a hard time for Idealist reasons, and Aang does it for Loyalist reasons.

My family and friends are important to me. There are varying degrees of closeness I’ll extend out to workmates because we go through a similar experience on a daily basis and I can relate. Also, showing them some grace when we’re all under pressure feels more humane and professional.

This is just human stuff.

In terms of my secondary, I strongly relate to “I enjoy making the plan and then throwing the plan away.” When I travel, I tend to spend a whole heap of time reading and thinking of the things I want to do when I get to my destination, but I only really plan the essentials close to my leave date, and end up with a set route and end date. The rest I make up on the fly.

This is a wonderful example of the way Badger secondaries like to make themselves into the tool (instead of collecting tools, the way a Bird secondary would.

I used to do this a lot at school. Put in the work before hand, and then do a lot of my written stuff the night before.

... me writing out sorting posts. Making pages and pages and PAGES of notes, and then dictating the actual text into my phone during a walk.

If there’s a hard conversation that I need to have, I’ll normally have a practice conversation with someone first, so that I can omit any troublesome language that might get in the way of me expressing my point. I have certain people that I might turn to for specific conversations.

Love it. That is some beautiful Badger secondary problem solving.

I also have conversations to help me figure out what I want - it’s hit and miss, but sometimes I need to talk it out to get somewhere.

I suspect you're an internal primary, and I furthermore suspect that you're probably a Lion. This is very Lion primary problem solving... talk it though, wait for the emotional ping.

I don’t have any issues playing to a type. I don’t do an amazing job of it - it’s more like I shift certain parts of my personality I want to accentuate - but it doesn’t bother me, and I can drop it if I need to.

That sounds like Courtier Badger. Possibly a snake model depending on how you go about it, but I try not to over-complicate these write-ups.

I love baking, but I love just putting all the ingredients in the bowl and tasting as I go, and adding whatever I think will make it better on a whim. It normally brings better results and makes me feel happier.

My guess is you put in a lot of work and research beforehand though. Like with traveling?

I don’t game much, but when I do, I really enjoy games with strong characters that I can just go back to and interact with. I’m more a completionist for flavour text than I am for actual achievements. Thank you for reading this! I apologise if this is too long, I just don’t know what’s important here (hopefully something). If you could please let me know where you think I might sit sorting-wise, I’d really appreciate it.

I think that's more an idealist thing, but that's really the only trait I relate to. Prioritizing ideals over individuals still feels incompatible with my worldview. I also have a history of disregarding principles when it comes to people I care about and not feeling bad about it one bit, which is one of the things that strongly pointed me towards Snake. Is this because the example in question is too extreme? Could it be because of a model? This question has been bothering me for a while, but I'm not sure I'm explaining it right. Anyway, I'd appreciate any bit of help you might give. 🙏🏼 Have a good day!

You sound like a Loyalist to me. Probably all that's happened is you've got caught up in using extreme examples. "Would I love my Person less if I realized they were Jack the Ripper." That kind of thing. The problem of using examples like that is ... if the behavior and the beliefs are bad enough that they're affecting other people, that's going to come back around and ping some other part of the Loyalist's system. A Badger primary who realizes the beliefs of one member of the community are hurting another member of the community? Ouch. Or a Snake who realizes that the beliefs of one of their People are hurting another one of their People (or even just hurting their own reputation or social standing?) I had an interesting conversation with a Snake primary, who said that if she realized a good friend of hers was homophobic, she wouldn't *cut them off* but she wouldn't want to be tagged in the same photos as them anymore. And if that person made a long homophobic video, or started donating to homophobic organizations... then continuing to associate with them is going to be way more trouble than it's worth. Sakes are practical, remember, and good at taking care of themselves. Like this bit right here is very loyalist:

In cases where it felt like they could easily change their minds and it was just about not knowing or an idea being very new to them, it felt a bit disappointing but it didn't affect my love for them, because I felt confident it wouldn't last.

Thank you. :) Think you answered your own question here - this sure sounds like a Snake model.