#sortme

Hi! I figured I'd just answer some of the prompts you had listed and see what happens! I do have an idea of what I am, but I really just wanted to try and describe myself without my "mask" as much as possible.

Oooh, does this mean we're going to get a lot of models?

I can be very polite and can err on the side of being a doormat to keep the people around me happy

Invisible Badger? Or if this is your mask... Invisible Badger model?

and hide my more "intense" character traits,

"Intense" is very often a Lion word (either primary or secondary.)

and developed a habit of lying to try and hide my neurodivergent qualities, like being forgetful and not completing things on time, but I'm unsure if those things are actually me, since both of those qualities can feel like a prison in the way of actually getting to know me, one that I force on myself out of habit and a feeling of necessity.

I don't diagnose over the internet, that's impossible and unethical, but it does sound like ADHD. Lying to cover up the fact that you forgot something, very normal ADHD thing, and not getting things in on time... ADHD is certainly one of the places that can come from. I would agree that these things don't say anything about your personality, they're disabilities you eventually build coping strategies/works around for.

and I will lie to get an extension on something I forgot to do (and can be quite clever in my lies,) and I just wanted to put those two qualities out there, since you probably won't hear much about them going forward.

In terms of this system... yeah, that "habit of lying" definitely sounds like a Snake secondary model you built as a coping mechanism. You love it, and it's useful, but it's something you did have to learn.

I love being helpful

This could be coming from a few places, but on the surface the energy is either very Badger secondary - or Idealist primary.

Anyway, sorry, it's long, but this is also a form of therapy, in a weird way.

When you really get down to it, basically every personality system is.

As a child, I was always described as "bossy" and a "know-it-all" by those that didn't like me, and "intelligent" and "empathetic" by those who did. I do think they're all accurate, though, and have been working on "reclaiming" the bossy description. I identify as a woman, so that can be tough to deal with.

You sound like Hermione. I definitely think you've got Lion somewhere - could definitely be secondary, or possibly primary. Young Idealists (Lion and Bird) often come across as 'bossy' and 'know-it-all.' Intelligent could be anything, and so could empathetic... although I'm already starting to see some Badger Secondary language coming in, and "empathetic" definitely fits with that.

Lol. Some examples of each:

Love examples.

For Bossy:  I was well-known as a kid for talking "at" people rather than with. My very best friend from preschool (and through to fourth grade, when her family moved) was a girl that had moved there from Mexico and didn't speak a lick of English, at first. My two reasons for befriending her when everyone else was avoiding her was 1) I knew she needed a friend, so I would be that friend.

Very cute. Although this impulse seems to be coming from your primary, which is interesting. ("It is RIGHT for me to be her friend.) Could be a Badger primary. Could also be Idealist.

2) (remember, I was FOUR) since she didn't speak any English, I could just talk, and talk, and talk and she would just listen. Lolol! As she became fluent in English, we discovered we had EVERYTHING in common, and I learned to let other people speak. (Sorta.)

The tendency to steamroll over people... can be a Lion secondary thing. An Exploded Idealist primary thing. An Authoritarian Badger thing? Just, it can come from a lot of places, because it can also be a neurodivergent thing, especially if you're concerned about memory stuff. Then talking over people can be related to working memory - you interrupt is because the worry that if you don't, the thought will just fall out of your head completely.

For the "know-it-all" aspect: I've been a dancer since I was a kid, and I skipped a "grade" in my dance classes early. Usually, it would go predance, kinderdance, and then Ballet 1, which would be your first "real" year of ballet instruction. I did predance and was immediately put in Ballet 1 with the older kids the next year. Yes, it was partially because I was very talented, but the most likely reason was that, when all the other kids during our classes and performances were goofing around or waving at their parents, I would become extremely huffy and try to remind them we were "serious performers" and would wind up pushing the other kids around to what their next position was and generally try to direct them in what came next.

That chip that you've got to take it seriously, you've got to follow the rules... that's the authoritarian etiquette thing you do see from Badger Primaries for me. Even the sweetest Badger primaries, your Snow Whites, gets strict and bossy when there's a job to do and people are messing around. It can also be very Black-and-White Bird - I get it, I'm doing the right thing, why isn't everyone else? I could see either making sense for you. But I am thinking you're an External Primary (Bird or Badger.)

I think they figured I'd be more "stimulated" in a class where I actually was learning instead of goofing off, and I was. Lol! I also had trouble with correcting people at inappropriate times that took me a while to figure out.

Welcome to neurodivergence. Every time I hear someone do the Titantic "I'm king of the world thing!" there a part of my brain that wants to say "um, actually, he says 'I'm the king of the world." No - bad impulse.

I'd correct people's grammar or spelling or if they got something wrong, thinking I was helping them, and then become very confused when they'd get angry and defensive. But, I figured out when I should just keep my mouth shut eventually. Lol.

Okay, I'm starting to have a theory about you. Because of the grammar policing specifically. All the police behavior I know comes from young Bird primaries. And I think it's because - grammar is a system, right? You're taught that this is the system, this is correct. Birds love systems. But English grammar specifically is a... bad system. These rules we're taught are arbitrary, recent, half of them only apply some of the time, and they don't reflect common usage (which changes anyway.) But a young Bird secondary is going to take a second to get to the point where they realize that. I would expect a Badger primary to police language in more community-of-practice ways - don't swear, that word is offensive, don't use the Lord's name in vain, etc - instead of really getting into the nuts and bolts of the actual language stuff.

For Intelligent: Well, it's the fact that I knew all the stuff I said above. Lol. I was a voracious reader and just absolutely absorbed knowledge like a sponge. I was eventually banned from participating in my class' spelling bees because I won too many times, so my teacher would have me sit with the word list and check if my classmates were right. Lol.  In case you haven't picked up on it, I was a very intense, passionate child. Lol.

It's very interesting that you locked on to spelling and grammar specifically. It seems like there may have been a puzzle aspect there that you liked.

For Empathetic: I pretty much formed the entirety of my friend groups out of other kids I felt had been pushed aside by the "popular kids," like my previously mentioned friendship. I'll never forget the moment I knew I'd be on the opposite end of "popular" for my whole school life: I was invited to a cool girl's party, but she told me my friend would not be allowed to go. I'm so proud of my younger self as I remember without even thinking making a scrunched up face and telling her I didn't wanna go if my friend couldn't go. That girl never liked me again, and since I went to a small school system (as well as some of my unfortunate social skills, which definitely came from my later diagnosed ADHD and potentially diagnosable autism, which I suspect but don't know for certain)

Oh, I called it! Anyway... I'm really doubling down on Idealist (almost certainly Bird), because of the specifics of this friend group. You built it like a Cause: "these people deserve a friend group." It's like a little revolutionary group, what you have in common is being Outcasts. It's a very Badger-flavored cause, sure, but this isn't how Badger primaries make friends. A universal Badger would absolutely invite the loners into the group, but it would be about inviting loners into the main group. For a Badger to specifically only trust loners they would have to be quite burned... and I'm not getting Burned primary from you at all.

I'm also doubling down on Lion secondary. You really like just planting your feet, speaking your truth, and if other people don't like it - that's a them problem. You didn't even have to think about it, and that made you feel strong and powerful - not nervous or anxious.

If I'm playing a video game, it's a super easy answer, but not one I like admitting. I just go the easiest route, which is often, from a meta standpoint, a guide.

Easiest, most direct point to the finish line? Just smash on through? LION.

Lol. I'm the same in pretty much all of my low-stakes problem-solving: Whatever solves the problem the quickest and the easiest is the best way to go. I LOVE short cuts, but not if they're overly complicated.

LION.

I'm also the type to think that doing something myself is faster than explaining my situation to someone else and ask for help.

I really think this is a Lion secondary thing. They just GO, and only ask for help if they've tried first and failed.

For a really difficult decision, if I'm given too much time to think about it, I usually flounder for hours or days or months or years until somebody finally puts a deadline on my decision. Suddenly, I go into "problem-solving mode" and I just choose SOMETHING.

That's Lion too. And there's a lot of power to that, honestly. But Lions have a kind of on/off way of operating at either 100% ('problem-solving mode' as you call it) or 0%.

Is it always the best choice? Honestly, I'm not sure there really ARE best choices at this point. Just the choices you make and how you prune them to your liking afterwards. I'm at my best making a decision when I have zero time to make it.

You're not a Prep-Work secondary. Thinking too long about a decision makes you feel worse, not better. You're getting in your own head, and psyching yourself out.

As an example, I do theater, and I LOVE the feeling of having to problem solve backstage, you have literal SECONDS to come up with something, ANYTHING to fix a problem, and whether the solution is perfect just goes out the door and all that matters is that SOMETHING happens, and there's nothing more freeing, since I have a tendency towards perfectionism or analysis paralysis. Where others freeze up, I'm sprinting across the stage, suddenly zeroing in on EXACTLY where the missing prop is, and putting it back in place JUST as the curtain rises. It's a rush like no other, and one of the few places I feel really, truly competent.

There are a LOT of jobs where this ability is ABSOLUTELY key. So long as you're in the right place, doing the right thing, this is a superpower. This is why we love Lions.

My fantasy is always finding a place where I feel really competent, where I can feel safe, have stability, and be able to be useful for that place.

That "useful" thing - that's you're Idealist primary talking. The "competent" thing... that's a key thing for you, this idea that you want to feel competent, and that you don't as much as you would like to. Your current problem solving strategy isn't so much fiery Lion as it is doormat Badger. I think it's likely that your secondary is a little Burnt (which is why you feel incompetent) and you've started modeling Badger to compensate.

Success and being seen as such is also part of that fantasy.

Having a lot of thoughts about being publicly recognized for your success... I mean yes of course it's a human thing, but it hits harder for young idealists.

Theater can be that for me, but stability is also part of my fantasy, and we live under the crushing weight of capitalism, so I could never make enough money to live while putting in all the time and effort for it that I'd want (at least, not right now, I haven't totally given up.) I still give as much of my time as I can to theater and the arts, like writing and creating. I love the theater because of the fast pace, and how I grew up in it and understand the process from top to bottom. Those in that community see me as incredibly competent in turn, instead of as "odd" or "forgetful" or "decision-phobic."

You've heard that ADHD people make great entrepreneurs? Not many people actually enjoy that fast-paced, freelance lifestyle. I think you'd be a great event co-ordinator, great at fund-raising and advertising, great production assistant... and those are only the fields I know something about. Don't let the haters get you down. You don't have to model Badger all the time.

As a kid, I was really drawn to Beauty and the Beast because of Belle's oddness, her ostracization from her own community, and her fulfilling my fantasy of finding a magical place with other "odd" people who accept her, see her as competent, accept her quirks, and keep her far, far away from the people who shun her. :)

She's also a really REALLY loud Lion secondary.

I also really identified with any girl character who was the sort of "rich, bitchy girl who's actually misunderstood and just wants friends." I didn't grow up especially rich, but I grew up with a terrible home life, people who shunned me because of me appearing "bossy" and "mean" when it was all a misunderstanding, and I also grew up feeling incompetent and out of my depth in "normal" situations like most poor little rich girls are shown when they try to adapt to life outside of their mansion. Examples are Elle Woods and Pacifica Northwest, among hundreds of others. The final type is Katara from Avatar, who I relate to based on where she feels most competent, in the "heat of battle," and how she struggles with learning to accept her own intensity (my bossiness or my tendency to wanna cut straight to the point, while also being someone filled with empathy and a love for certain levels of traditionally feminine self-expression.)

It makes a lot of sense that you identify with Katara. She is also a very fiery Lion secondary... who feels culturally pressured to model this caretaking Badger. And clearly she's extremely empathetic, and VERY idealistic. But she's more successful when she gets comfortable with her Lion.

(Sokka had a similar journey, learning he doesn't have to be a "warrior guy" Lion secondary... and instead leans into his natural Bird secondary. It's clearly something the show was interested in exploring. Also, now I really want to write a sorting of Legally Blonde. Because I would be VERY surprised if Elle is not a Lion secondary also.)

(also I've never really thought of as "poor little rich girl" as fun fictional way of exploring neurodivergence, but it honestly hangs together really well, especially for autism. More thought is needed.)

I feel powerful whenever I'm feeling competent, which if you can't tell is a really important word to me. Lol. I've been seen as incomptent in so many ways: clumsy, forgetful, socially too intense, too bossy, too much of a doormat when I try to turn down my intensity, etc... So, being seen as and feeling competent is my ultimate fantasy, like being a "boss babe" (cringe) where I'm walking around an office or a theater making quick decisions and talking about some deadline is part of my power fantasy.

It's not cringe. It makes you special. Like me? Oh no, that's not my fantasy. That sounds so stressful.

Lol. I work in a community serving position which I do like, but I hate how much "being nice" is involved, where your tone is monitored and you could get in trouble based on the way you said something, which can be a blind spot for me (though my history and passion for acting has helped me a bit in this.)

This definitely explains where the "doormat" Invisible Hufflepuff is coming from. You work in a job where "customer service face" is really, really important. But I bet your Idealist primary likes the... idealism of it all.

I think I'd feel more "free" and less caged in if I worked somewhere where your tone didn't matter quite as much.

I agree! And even within the community service/non-profit organization sphere, there definitely are jobs that are less public-facing.

I feel most powerful solving problems and jumping last minute on set changes in theater, or learning lines or a dance to fill in for a part in only a few hours. "Prep-time" can almost be a prison to me, when the ADHD/perfectionism creeps in and messes me up.

It is weird that "perfectionism" is so often treated as a cute quickly flaw. It a curse, it it the enemy of art... all this stuff I don't need to tell you. But yeah, this all sounds like Lion.

I've had a lot of difficult times, and all of them have come down to losing my community. I have had to walk away from friends and family due to ab*se and walk alone MULTIPLE times

On the surface this looks like a community-driven Badger primary, and like... it could be. It absolutely could be. One of the interesting aspects of this submission was how little you talked about primary, and how much you talked about secondary. I'm getting that your secondary IS your focus right now. You're looking for a place where your skills are needed, where you feel competent, useful, and secure. Once you've got THAT in place... you can start dealing with the metaphysical stuff.

I've failed at trying to make myself competent in places that didn't serve me, and I've been searching for a place to land ever since. I've found my community in some aspects of my life, but in others I'm still looking, but I haven't given up. My most important relationships are my friends and chosen family. I'm much more suspicious than I was as a kid, just inviting anyone I saw who needed a friend to be mine, but the people I have let in I truly cherish. :)

So my best guess... is that you're a Bird primary with a pretty Badger looking system. It's a system you're just letting sit at the moment, it's working fine. But to me, the way you write about switching communities here that match you Bird, not Badger. The process of leaving was terrible, but you're going to find a place that suits you (and your Lion secondary) better... next time. And you absolutely well.

Thank you so much!

You are so welcome.

Thank you to rinamars for such an excellent submission. If you’d like a Sorting of your very own, commissions are open on my ko-fi. :D

Hey, I hope you’ll be willing to sort me. I was a timid kid, always did what I was told, I was nice, respectful and I believed what adults were saying. My family valued books so I took pride in reading early too.

It's a normal, human thing to want to please your parents, and to believe what you're told as a child. I suppose a very strong tendency to fit in with the family culture might point to a young Badger primary... but that's not the only explanation. Going to need more data.

I could never play alone and always wanted a friend, almost as much as I wanted peace and quiet of my room. And yet, boredom was often my companion.

Hmm. This need for community, companionship, another person around is sounding very Badgery.

I have two younger siblings and I was their nanny.

Ah. Got it. So if you aren't a Badger secondary... you definitely learned to model it.

I taught them various words and its meanings, but I also cheated in card games, would be mean to them or blame them for things I knew I would be punished harsher for. 

Hmm. Interesting. I mean being mean to your siblings is neither here nor there - I mean I'm sure you resented them a little for nanny duty for one thing, I've been there. But this tactical move of blaming your siblings because you kew that your parents would be more lenient with them... that's definitely the sign of an I-Move secondary (Snake or Bird.)

Once at my job I had (more like wanted) to figure out why the Internet was down, was it the death of a router or electricity problems. A co-worker was convinced it was the router because everything else was on, I wasn’t so sure. I searched my head for the easiest and quickest way to solve this. It was of course to see if the outlet was popped by the kettle before.

I know that English isn't your first language, and I have to admit that I'm not completely sure what "popped by the kettle" means. I think it means "someone accidentally unplugged the router in order to plug the kettle in."

Now that I think about it, there were easier ways to go about this, and without me even leaving the room, but then I figured I’d take an old job NOKIA and see if it charges from that outlet. It didn’t, and I felt really smart and gloated silently that I was right and they weren’t. With high-stakes problems I really think I just do what needs to be done.

You've definitely got this love of going a little bit solo when you problem solve. You did a little experiment, you isolated the problem. Could be Bird... but somehow I'm really getting single-player Environment Snake from you. Might be the slight agent of chaos energy.

I’m a nurse, well, I’ve a nursing degree. Going back to that system after all I’ve been through was a difficult decision. I was bored studying it, a breakup with my friends from college was awful and I still cuss thinking about them, most clinical weeks were shit while we were being ignored, shunned out or used for free labour. Like I had one proper clinical month in 4 years were I was properly taken around with the nurse’s consent, and was given space to learn things. It’s a different republic man.

Sigh. Okay, so it's sounds like your Badger secondary is on full display here with nursing, just like it was with nannying... but I'm sort of thinking it's a model. You CAN do it, but you don't enjoy doing it. This is also the second mention of you being bored. Which, yeah is a human thing... but it's also MORE of a thing for a reactive, improvisational secondary. I'm kind of liking Snake for you.

I never wanted to go back, but job market was shit, so with a heavy heart, kicking and screaming, I faced the reality of me running out of savings, and sent a job application to a hospital, not without my mother’s nudge and support from people I know, who kept saying if it will be awful, you will leave. Sure, like I would even go back if it was that easy.

A badger secondary would put a little more weight on what the community had to say. Also, you talk about always wanting friends as a kid, but as an adult you seem pretty aggressively independent. Burned Badger? Snake?

I know, I know, I could have tried less medical procedures heavy nursing positions, but one thing I knew was that starting in a hospital meant with good social relations I could always ask for help and have an experienced nurse to learn from. Those other places kind of leave you on your own in the field.

So there's definitely some Badger in you. A very PRACTICAL Badger secondary model at the very least.

Sometimes I am a bit sad for being the reasonable one, for not trying to be an artist, to be a translator of a lesser known language, or for not studying literature and living in a dream that one day it will work itself out somehow. But then I get warm in my bed, I get to buy books I want, treat my dogs or get them to a vet when something’s wrong, help my mom or buy a new bed-sheet, and I know being comfortable was more important than whatever my head imagined.

I'm kind of liking Snake primary for you. You have that pin-point practicality Snakes always seem to come back to in the end. Art, following your heart and all that stuff... it sounds nice, and I'd be nice to do. But at the end of the day, the most important thing is to stay warm, buy yourself and your dogs little treats, and help out your mom. That's a Snake primary, with a small circle.

Snake do tend to like Lions, and when things are calm and going well, Snake primaries will often model something else, for fun basically. So I hope something eventually shifts for you (since no situation is permanent) and you can do something maybe a little more Idealistic, which suits your Snake secondary a little better... since I bet it can get both bored and burnt-out by nursing.

Also I know there would’ve been a lot of boot licking, besides the need to be really smart and ingenious, which I wasn’t.

Clients are... a very difficult part of being an artist, it's a thing.

Would I be happier if I followed my sworn oath to never come back? Maybe, if I could study again, learn what I really want, which is too much to pick one subject, as I think a lot of things, could be neat to study for 4 years.

This feels like a Lion primary fantasy to me: Life is loud and chaotic, wouldn't it be nice to spend four years just figuring your self out?

Not nursing though. Maybe if I was able to work in a bookshop or a coffee shop.

This sounds a bit more like a Snake secondary fantasy: work at a nice little shop where there are a lot of low-stakes interesting problems (like figuring out why the router isn't working) and lots of people coming in for you to bounce of of and have fun with.

However, my idea of comfort was more important then. It turned out fine, it doesn’t haunt me.

Because this is, at the end of the day, the only acceptable answer for a Snake primary.

Not like my study years. I’m not sure I would ever go back for masters though, and I shouldn’t, right, as someone who found their subject so boring.

This is definitely a big challenge with you - you get bored easily. Which makes me think Lion secondary or Snake secondary (and with everything else I've read, almost certainly Snake.)

My fantastical dream is living in a nice place, a cottage full of books and comfort near some castle where I can go socialise, work or do anything else with my time that’s needed. But when I come back to my cottage, I am not alone, although I can be if I want to, but instead I am surrounded by a group of friends, who feel like home, who I can be myself with, as in I know I am stupid, and I do and say stupid things as I’m sometimes too airhead or too emotional, but I will first be met with their understanding and kindness rather than judgment and outrage. Basically I want a found family that I don’t have and a home to make my own and with my rules. So little in life is how I want it to be, and only fictional found families are understanding, supporting and kind. That’s why we like them.

I think this is a Double Snake fantasy. Live in a comfortable little cottage, surrounded by friends/found family who "feel like home." That's the dream of a Snake primary. Then you can leave and go someplace cool (a castle!) in order to meet people, work, or just go along with whatever's happening that day. At which point... you come back home and take off all your faces, go into Neutral... and don't have to worry if someone thinks you're stupid, emotional, or air-headed.

(that's a little bit of negative self-talk coming through. Often people with strong Badger secondary influences can look at their Improvisational tendencies and think they're not valid/real/logical. I hope that's not the case with you.)

I know people see reality in various ways. In my reality, everyone is selfish and doing things primarily for themselves (starting with me) so it is hard to understand when we barely can see past our noses.

Yep. You're a Snake primary. A slightly Burned Snake primary, sounds like.

(which might explain why you're sort of fascinated by the Lion way of doing things. Burned Snakes will sometimes model Lion because it seems easier/less painful, and Burned Lions will do the reverse.)

In reality, I want the family heaven, the damn Hallmark Christmas movies. I don’t think I’ll ever do the whole normative family thing, but I’m either lonely or everyday is the same now and nothing’s special.

Staying within the bounds of this system (because I'm not diagnosing anything else over the internet) it sounds like your Snake secondary needs some enrichment. You cheat at games and figure things out for fun! There's got to be something interesting for you to get into. Also - yeah you probably need People apart from your pets and your mom. Easier said than done, though.

I want a plot of land to call my own so I’d be able to put my pets to rest when the time comes, so I’d be able to visit them.

This is why I love Snake primaries. What an incredibly lovely thing to say.

I feel most powerful and confident when I improvise and it works.

SNAKE.

I went for a little trip alone last winter.

Oh yes, absolutely. I love this for you.

I checked for my ride to and back, all possible times, wrote it so that if my devices went out I had something, and I knew I could survive a day or two until my ride home. I booked a place, and I knew where I planned to go for the event. The other 2 days? Who knows, just go around, see the town, explore, and see the places I have not seen. All of this was made spontaneously a few days before because I had a fight with my brother and decided going and staying with a Buddhist group was better than celebrating New Years at home. I had a great time, everything was okay and I am really proud of myself for doing that.

Your Badger model (planning, double checking, making sure all your info is written down) and your Snake secondary (leave on a whim, do whatever once you get there) are playing very well together.

Sounds like a snake secondary right?

Sure does.

But then why do I physically hate lying? I think I am afraid of getting cough [caught?], afraid of not having the right answer in the moment. It seems that I can never evaluate a situation well and choose the right thing to say for a useful lie. I would rather anyone else create the lie and I would then try to make it as honest as possible. I doubt it would work, unless it wasn’t that important.

Your Snake secondary sounds like it's a little Burnt. Not actually that surprising, considering it looks like you've been around such heavy Badger secondary energy all your life, and been expected to use your Badger secondary, and only your Badger secondary, so much. The message you would have been getting is that the Snake secondary way of doing things is - unreliable, cheating, bad. Which just isn't the case. Snake secondaries have a perfectly useful, morally neutral way of doing things.

But all of this - 'I'm afraid, I can't, it wouldn't work,' all that is Burnt secondary language. As is "With high-stakes problems I really think I just do what needs to be done," which is what you said earlier.

I wouldn't be too concerned though. From everything else I've read, you're grounded, stubborn, and have a good sense of who you are. Chances are your Snake secondary is just rusty. Also this: "I would rather anyone else create the lie and I would then try to make it as honest as possible" - that's a good description of how a Snake secondary works. You're bouncing off whoever you're talking to, you're not creating from nothing.

It was difficult when I didn’t know what I’ll do in the future, after school, when all my plans failed. It was really difficult to go through high-school with no friends and shun out, like, if I was a badger primary originally, that would’ve messed me up so bad that I’d never know. I never had a chance to look like the two amazing healthy badgers I know who surrounded themselves with communities and are thriving.

I do think that part of this is just - that you fundamentally do not want a Badger-style community. You want a Snake-style community, which is different.

It was hard when my college friend started to shun me out and drifted away when she found better like I was nothing,

This friend - this one important friend left you, and that gets a shout-out on a level with your plans for the future falling apart. Very Snake primary

or when I had to lie heavily in my academic papers because no one cared to help and I was exhausted to care myself after covid and almost half a year of clinicals and paper writing.

Okay this is fascinating. First, it does sound like you had a bout of situational depression (or similar) which you pushed through, so good for you. But I'm interested in the way that - okay, you lied on your academic papers when push came to shove (which I would expect from a Snake secondary.) BUT. That decision is bound up with your Burnt primary, in feelings of abandonment and loneliness. I'd say you don't like lying, because you associate the need to lie with feeling alone. Ideally, you feel your life should be set up in such a way that you don't *need* to lie.

My relationship with a long time friend from art school is important. She was a positive and inspiring figure in my life, as well as someone who taught me a lot about communication and friendship. We fought a lot, but neither one of us wanted to let the other one go, maybe because we knew we wouldn’t find anyone else who’d match our freak, so we had to figure it out.

Sounds like an important Snake primary relationship.

I love my siblings but all they gave me was a baggage of fear that I was a horrible sibling and broke something in them.

You were a kid. Kids don't have the emotional maturity (or authority) to raise their siblings well, that's just not a job that they're able to do. It's the job of the adults in their life to make sure all those interactions are running as they should. You can be a horror of a little kid a grow up into a wonderful, well-adjusted adult, or you can be a lovely docile little kid and fall apart when you get older. All you can do (all you have to do) is be decent to your siblings now.

My relationship with my mom is really important. To this day she thinks I’d be an artist or that I was a really studious and meticulously prepared person, but without her support I would not be the person I’m today. Neither I’d be that without all the loops I’d to jump because of her haha.

Sounds like your mom might be a Lion Badger. Which could help explain where those models are coming from. It's common for Snake primaries to build models for their important People.

Thank you for your time!

You are very welcome.

Thank you to Novemberkid for such an excellent submission. If you'd like a Sorting of your very own, commissions are open on my ko-fi. :D

Hi Wisteria! I’ve been loving your thoughtful and in-depth analyses and no one else in my life is familiar with the SHC system, so it’s been hard to get some outside perspective. English is not my first language, so please forgive my grammar/awkward phrasing at times. For my sorting, I am thinking Bird primary, though I’ve considered Lion and Badger primaries. I think I am not a snake primary. I have never felt there was an intrinsic moral hierarchy when it comes to people I care about. I still care for them, but at the end of the day, I think we are all living conscious beings who deserve equal treatment, rights, and consideration.

Definitely getting Idealist primary here (Bird or Lion, and I see why you're thinking Bird. Your whole position is well-thought out and well articulated.) I will say that 'all living conscious beings deserve equal treatment' is kind of the Badger mission statement,' but when we're in generalities that big, that thought could just as easily be coming from a Bird with some Badger in their System, a Paragon Lion, or even a really expansive Snake.

I also think prioritizing your own group is often dangerous.

This bit here could describe a Snake or a Badger equally well, depending on how we're defining the "group" we're talking about here.

A Loyalist would probably say that protecting the group is the only thing you know for sure you can do well, and when things get too big and Idealistic, they become unreal, hypothetical, and unsafe. But you seem perfectly fine with that level of big-picture stuff, so I'm happy to say Idealist for you. Also, there's an undercurrent of... suspicion, directed at Loyalists.

I guess I could be a snake that only includes themselves, as I do act in self-preservation a lot of the times

That's a human thing. If someone is *struggling* with turning on the self-preservation, that's a problem, and probably a sign of Burning, or a very immature Badger.

and struggle to trust people.

That can also come from a lot of different places.

I sometimes have an attitude of turning people bad in my head as soon as they act against me, or in a way that reveals their “true character”

Honestly, this kind of sounds like it could be a *Badger* thing?

Because Badgers have opt-out morality, they will often do this thing where you're one of their people, until you break the rules (or the social contract) badly enough. And then you're out, because you're a threat to the rest of the group.

(this is often a projection) and then tend to self-isolate.

Hmmm. And now you're back to being philosophical. Distancing yourself from the emotion of cutting people off. Much more Bird.

I thought bird primary because I do change my ideas about the world and morality quite often and refine my worldview as I discover new ideas. I am also very receptive to scientific ideas and do put logic and reasoned morality above intuition.

You also seem very chill about this whole process, which makes me say Bird again. (Not Lion. The process just tends to be a lot messier and a lot more emotional with Lions.)

However, my tendency to prioritize the perceptions of the group, my need to serve a larger purpose and my desire to be useful to society do feel quite badger-y.

They do. "Prioritize the perceptions of the group," especially is a very Badger thing to say. Badgers also like being useful to the group. But 'need to serve a larger purpose' is a big enough statement that it could work for almost anyone.

What Badger and Bird have in common is that they're both External primaries. What the world thinks is important, and you care about that in a way that Lions and Snakes just kind of don't.

As for lion, I do often act based on heuristics, especially if I haven’t thought out a specific issue yet.

Yeah, this isn't lion. For one thing - you used the word "heuristics." For another, you're stressing about the way you only rely on these "well xyz worked in past" mental shortcuts when you haven't "thought a thought out a specific issue yet." Implication being that, in a perfect world, you would have time to think it out completely every time. (Birds hate having to make snap decisions.)

I can also pretend to be more rational than I am, and tend to live life in automatic mode, by relying on assumptions and facts that sound good. I think I do this less than other people, but that is still a flaw I’ve noticed.

You rely on these "automatic" shortcuts less than other people, but think that you should use them less, and feel bad that you use them at all.

I wonder if you're a Bird primary living in a very Badger community. Or the flip, a Badger living with a bunch of Birds.

As for my secondary, I am a little bit lost. I am very much in my own head and not very action-oriented, so I feel like I lack the data to identify my secondary, or I am burned and just using whatever works. I usually just use stress to motivate action and procrastinate until the last minute.

Oh, the neurodivergent special. Save the non-preferred task for the last minute, and then use the adrenaline that generates to hack your brain into getting it done really fast. Definitely not the only person here doing that.

Childhood: As a kid, I was extremely quiet, sensitive, and introverted. From early on, I remember being very artistic and curious. I would dress up and improvise plays in front of my family. I also loved to draw, write poems, walk in nature, and learn about the world (I was especially fascinated with animals). I also loved to get lost in imaginary worlds, and I remember writing fantasy stories, and believing I had magical powers or was an alien/magical creature.

When I was in school, I remember not connecting very well with my peers. I think people could feel I was different. I was soft spoken, sensitive, and I excelled at school.

I mean so far, *I*could have written this. And I'll take it all into account, but this isn't a system for describing personality, so much as it is one for describing method/motivation.

I didn’t like sports like other boys, and it wasn’t acceptable to hang out with girls, so I just kept to myself. I was already doing good in school, so I just kind of developed that aspect of my identity. I didn’t get along with many other kids and ate lunch with my teachers a lot. I still had friends, but few of them were close.

You're describing constructing your identity in a very deliberate, conscious way, which is more Bird than Badger. It's honestly Bird secondary - like this how you get Actor Bird, deliberately developing one 'version' of yourself because it's useful in certain situation. I'm hearing you enjoyed acting and costumes, and (flash forward to present day) you "pretended" to be more rational than you are. I think you might be an Actor Bird.

It was validating to be so good at academics, and to get teachers’ and parents’ approval. Even if some other kids resented it, I didn’t care because it gave me worth.

This hits every child to some degree, but it hits External primaries very hard. This could describe a young Bird or a young Badger equally well, and now I'm wondering if any of these authority figures especially Birdy or especially Badgery?

Getting good grades, being the perfect child, being “mature for my age” were a big part of my personality.

"Perfect Child" is often an Actor Bird construction. "Mature for your age" is something I usually hear said about young Badgers. Are you maybe a Bird primary, with a very Badger-flavored System? It would fit everything I've read so far.

I also knew deep down I was queer

oh thats brutal

but I eventually became really good at self-editing, and I began to embody a version of me that was acceptable. I was the successful, responsible, smart kid, and I eventually started playing football in high school so that of course meant I was straight. I fully made myself believe the mask I was putting on at that time (badger-like?). In high school, I was tired of being an outsider, so I tried fitting in. I became much more agreeable, sociable, and started becoming more popular. Honestly, it felt good to be appreciated by my peers, and I did play into the character I was projecting. I was still hyper-focused on academics, but for the first time, people actually liked me.

Okay, so I do see why you're saying Badger. Badgers (especially young badgers) can just adopt the group's identity, and lose sight of their own individuality in the process. But I don't think that's what's going on here.

To me, this sounds like it could only be Actor Bird. I know English isn't your first language, so I'm not reading too too much into the word choice... but you do refer to this "Acceptable Self" as a "character," that you "embody." Building this "mask" was a deliberate, conscious process, and it sound like you lived in this persona for a while. Also, not ignoring the fact that... it worked. Wanting to be more popular, and then building a persona that is more popular... that's not something everyone can do.

This actually makes me think of a sorting I wrote for Blackbeard of Our Flag Means Death, and the Actor Bird-specific angst of building a character, spending a little too long in that skin and then feeling that people only like you/you only have worth because of a role you play... and then becoming trapped, because your character is too simple, and it's stifling.

I eventually came to accept my sexuality and had a friendship that made me confront the lack of authenticity of the mask I was putting on. After that, I explored my authentic self while still enjoying my newfound social skills and ability to attract people.

I love that. You built a "popular" persona, and then realized that you din't have to wear it all the time.

I also started getting interested in social justice, philosophy, and politics, which made me question a lot of preconceived notions and ideas I held true about the world.

Oh that's a very Bird primary list of interests right there.

As I became more informed, ethics and morality became a big corner stone of my interactions with the world. I was always interested in finding the “right” way to be, even as a child,

This almost seems like a version of the "book fantasy," which is something I've heard from several Bird primaries at this point: "When I was younger, I wished that there was a magic book that would tell me the 'right' way to act in every situation."

but this meant I could figure out what that meant in more objective terms, and for myself instead of what adults thought. Paradigm shifts were exciting (and still are).

I absolutely love that for you. Bravo.

Family dynamics:

In terms of family dynamics, I always went along to get along. I was checked out emotionally, especially since a lot of family members would say homophobic things, and I never felt completely comfortable with them. I stuck with easy topics and didn’t go into my personal life, and I was content with the image of the golden child they had of me. Even with my parents, whom I love, I never felt I could completely be myself. This led to a lot of secrets and lies to conceal my real self. I was never that rebellious or troublesome to begin with, and I kind of acted like a little adult.

Okay. That makes sense. Sounds like you built a pretty robust Badger primary model that was useful for keeping the peace with your family. (It also sounds just, incredibly necessary.) This explains why a lot of your descriptions of your younger self read as super Badger primary to me: "little adult" "mature for your age" "farming the approval of authority figure."

I also thought a lot of their views were outdated, although I rarely argued with them. My dad had the idea he had to be strict, which was just not the best fit for me. I learned to be extremely secretive, sneaky, and find ways around the rules. I was not very wild to begin with, but I did value my freedom. I just kind of passively agreed, and then did it behind their backs.

Sounds possible you might have a little bit of a snake secondary model?

Although my dad was very sensitive and affectionate, a thing that hurt me a lot was his inability to deal with others’ emotions. I was not allowed to express negative emotions or cry, and he justified this as him being “old school”.

Ah yes. As we know, boys should only have Cool emotions, like Anger and Science. Wondering if your *Dad* might be a Badger primary, with this focus on Tradition and Rules.

This was extremely frustrating to me, as I never understood how tradition could be a valuable reason for anything, or how sticking with old values and refusing to adapt was acceptable.

A little bit of that Bird primary 'make it make sense' thing.

My mom, though more accepting of my sensitivity, was also very critical. She used the status quo to judge what I did, which was also very frustrating. If something I did was weird or impolite, she would use a kind of circular reasoning (this is bad because it’s not socially acceptable, and it’s not socially acceptable because it’s bad), which was also confusing to me.

I love that you can now identify that as classic circular reasoning.

I just wasn’t super interested in developing a strong connection with anyone in my family. I just felt that it was all too arbitrary,

Definitely don't think you're a Loyalist, because I don't think a Loyalist could do a break this clean. There'd be some sense of something... some guilt, some emotion, some residual thing.

and I was more interested in exploring my friendships with people who understood me more deeply. I felt my parents’ (especially dad’s) rules didn’t make any sense, and I wanted my freedom as soon as possible. Since I moved out, our relationship has been a lot better, though I still hide aspects of my life from them.

Very true that just not needing to be around your family 24/27 makes things so much better and easier to deal with.

Problem solving: In terms of problem solving, I like to think I am strategic, and a good contingency planner. I generally understand things well, and how they work together, and am quick to find a solution. When thinking about solving a small problem, I will usually think of the “goal state” first (i.e., what is the ideal I am trying to achieve in this situation). Then I can break down what I need to do. This usually starts with evaluating resources at my disposal (i.e., time, space, material, or mental resources), and what is in the environment. Then, I can come to a solution implicitly by connecting the dots. Finally, I will mentally play out the situation and see if it works, or if there are any roadblocks. This all happens quickly though. Planning is fun, but so is throwing away the plan or finding a clever way to get out of the situation.

What a fantastic breakdown of how to solve a problem. It's also extremely Bird secondary. If it happens fast enough, and you're comfortable enough with it, it looks like it even gets into Rapid-Fire Bird territory (probably why I was getting a little Snake secondary energy up there, Rapid-fire birds can look extremely Snake.)

Am a little bit side-eyeing your decision to call yourself "not very action-oriented" up there. You seem perfectly comfortable with problem-solving to me.

Whenever the unexpected happen, the path becomes really obvious to me. Priorities become salient, and things that are useless fall to the side. It’s more in situations where I’m forced to make a controlled decision that I’m a nervous and indecisive wreck.

Bird primaries HATE making snap decisions.

I can get stressed out if there is missing information, or if the expectations aren’t clear. Travel is especially stressful because of the number of unexpected events that can affect the rest of the trip.

I mean, no one likes missing information or unclear expectations. But it really gets to Birds. (Both primary and secondary honestly. and I'm really thinking that you're a Double Bird.)

With all the information, even if it’s bad news, I can manage and find a solution. But my brain will keep spinning scenarios if I don’t know for sure. Even at school, uncertainty was always worse than bad news.

I hear this. It really goes back to that classic Bird primary fantasy: "but I want to know EVERYTHING"

Not knowing where I stand with someone, with a group, or with a supervisor also makes me nervous. I like knowing what they think of me and what people need from me so I can provide it (or not bother if they dislike me for no reason).

I do think that you have a Badger model, or a Badger flavor to your system. Honestly, you very likely have bOTH. You took in the parts of your parents worldview that made sense to you: it IS useful to know what people want from you, and to know that you aren't making any social faux pas (that way, if someone is acting weird at you, you know it doesn't have to do with you.) But you also have this much more performative Badger model: this is who my parents expect me to be, I don't agree with it, but I can put it on and let it run.

In terms of interpersonal problems, this is where I am most terrible. I am often an absolute doormat and will not vocalize problems and internalize everything. My issue is that I don’t feel confident that I am right and doubt my ability to argue my point and stand up for myself without absolutely ruining the relationship.

Unfortunately, I can't say I'm *surprised,* since you grew up in an environment where arguing was very frowned upon, and it's not like you can win an argument with someone depending on circular arguments and logical fallacies.

You also built a large part of your *identity* around this Perfect Child, Invisible Badger who just does not cause problems. In the language of this system, you built a very intense Badger primary model as a coping mechanism, and now it's run out it's usefulness... but is still hard to punch through, because old models get sticky.

If something bothers me, I will mull over it and eventually let it go because it becomes too late.

Okay, *this* is why you thought there might be some Burning going on. There's this aspect of the way you relate to people that just feels very unsafe, and so you... shut it down.

I think the problems here are uncertainty, and lack of control. When I am in a situation where I know all the elements, have resources, and plenty of time, I am good.

That is absolutely Textbook Double Bird. But (as I'm sure I don't have to tell you)... it's also a fantasy. Very often, you will be lacking in either resources, info, or time. This is why a lot of Double Birds build models, or look like Lion secondaries whenever they don't have time to prep.

If there is an unknown, I can’t do anything.

In the language of this system, that's a Bird primary that's Exploded a little bit, this idea that you can't possibly act if you don't have all the information. It's very Chidi from The Good Place.

In social situations, I can’t control the volatility of relationships or other people, so I just control my reaction.

Pretty much all you can control, so good.

Often, instead of doing something when something is bothering me, I will basically force a paradigm shift to see the situation in a better light, and then move on.

Bird primaries are known for the superpower of just being able to *decide* to like something, or *decide* to be interested in something. That is absolutely what you're doing here. It's *a* way to solve that problem, I guess. But it doesn't seem to make you feel free/powerful.

I kind of have an addiction with the process of solving, and an intolerance for doubt. When I was questioning my career choices, I would reflect on all aspects of my personality, of my goals for the future, I would take endless career quizzes, read the descriptions of jobs over and over, would ask my friends what they thought I should do, etc. I would run in circles, never deciding. I even started deconstructing the philosophy of work, to determine if it was even possible to make a good decision.

Very Bird. Very *exploded* Bird. Of course you went from "what job do I want" to "is the concept of work philosophically moral."

Other questions: My future plans is to live a relatively quiet life out of the public eye, surrounded by books, and having plenty of free time to research or practice my hobbies. I want a stable job, with money so I don’t have to think about those things, and I want to be intellectually stimulated and to be able to add value to the world in the best way I can. I want two dogs, a partner who is fine with my need for space. I also want to live in a walkable city that has an interest in art and culture, and access to nature.

That sounds lovely.

Mostly, I want to be satisfied that I am a good person and be able to do what I want with relative freedom. Now, to be honest, I am very unsatisfied about the real world. It seems so monotonous, and I have always had the secret desire to escape into a fantasy realm. Unfortunately for myself, I don’t believe in the supernatural.

It gets better. There are a lot of cool things out there, and it all gets much less linear once you leave school. I would probably say though - knowing you and your tendencies - maybe a little less focus on being a good person (because that's a can of worms) and maybe a little more on doing things that are a net positive to the world around you.

I feel most powerful when I surprise myself. I once prepared for a grad school interview by reading hundreds of questions and preparing answers for them. When I practiced with a friend, it just came out forced and clunky, and I found myself trying to repeat exactly what I had written. I had accepted I just wasn’t going to get in. When I went to the actual interview though, I just went off script and took risks. I told personal anecdotes while maintaining the image I wanted to project to them, which got me an offer.

You are absolutely a Rapid-Fire bird, which is very cool.

When I speak up in class, when I stand up for myself, when I make impulsive decisions, and especially when I do something scary, I also feel this way.

I like it. Lean into that Lion secondary energy. I know a lot of Birds, especially Double Birds, find it extremely helpful.

I also feel powerful when I feel competent. For instance, when I fix issues at work, when I get good grades, when I manage to problem solve in a clever way.

All of this is very Bird secondary. And honestly, a very effective-sounding Bird secondary.

In high school and during the pandemic, I also was obsessed with personality systems and would read and introspect for hours trying to determine my type. But there was never an answer satisfying enough because the process of introspection was the addictive part of it, and even a sliver of doubt would send me into another rabbit hole. There is a kind of poking at it until it becomes mush effect. I literally made excel sheets with my results on different quizzes, over multiple weeks, to see if there was a pattern. By focusing so much on figuring out who I am, and the intricacies of my own psyche, I just end up losing the big picture and not being able to contextualize the information I’ve gathered. Sometimes it even becomes hard to identify anything since I’m focusing on such a tiny part of myself, and the human mind is so kaleidoscopic and changing, so it stops making sense and just becomes a big blob of behaviors and thoughts. I’ve had a hard time figuring out my MBTI and enneagram because of this as well.

I have been there before, trying to navigate the difference between what is useful introspection and what is navel-gazing indulgence. I accept that people are incredibly complicated, and any categorization system is inherently imperfect. I also accept that words to describe your inner workings are extremely helpful, and honestly, necessary. One thing I like about the system is the cleanness of it. So much of it has to do with cutting through the noise and the *presentation* we are presented, and just going - okay, how do we work, why do we work?

Thank you to Lorangutan for such an excellent submission. If you'd like a Sorting of your very own, commissions are open on my ko-fi. :D

unBurning snake primary (lion model) + burnt snake secondary (badger model) (bird model)

 Hi, Wisteria! I’d love to get your perspective on my primary/secondary; it feels like I’ve been going in circles. This got so long omg, but hopefully it has everything you need. My guess would be that I’m a lion primary or snake primary (maybe burned?).

Interesting. Because Burned primaries... especially Burned internal primaries... often come across as an unhappy version of something else. Or else they think they're an *unsuccessful version* of something else. I'll keep an eye on that.

For secondary….not lion probably? I feel like I don’t really ~get~ lion secondaries, but they’re charmingly incomprehensible and have fun energy to bounce off of. This might be why I’ve dated multiple lion secondaries. An ex of mine once said that I was much more playful and sillier around them than with other people.

I'm wondering if you might be a Badger secondary. Courtier badgers can kind of unconsciously "bounce" off other people's energy like that, and the fact you didn't notice the change taking place, it had to be pointed out to you, makes me thinking that the shifting probably is unconscious.

I have a lot of Opinions about the proper/moral way to act in the world and they can be rigid (funny enough, lying isn’t on that list). I also tend to make most decisions into moral questions.

Oh that's some Bird primary energy right there. You're mentioning a list (even as a joke, even in passing) and you're talking about your Series of Opinions Which Answer Moral Questions, rather than "being passionate" or "being stubborn" or just listing me some of your positions... which would be the more Lion-flavored thing to do.

And not finding lying inherently morally objectionable - that's just a pretty standard utilitarian thing. I think that was John Stewart Mill's thing, it's only the purpose of the lie that's important.

Once I wanted to take a writing workshop that was kind of expensive. But I didn’t apply for one of the scholarships because I technically could afford the class, even though it was a stretch. Intellectually, I knew that it would’ve been fine but applying for the scholarship would’ve felt wrong.

Hm. The scholarship would have helped but it wasn't necessary... so you felt bad about taking away from someone who needed it more? That's sounding a bit like Badger primary need-basing to me. Badger? Badger-flavored Paragon Lion primary? I see what you're saying about Lion vs Bird though: intellectually knowing that something is probably fine, but not doing it because it just Feels Wrong is certainly Lion.

Things feeling “right” is so important to me. When I’m making a hard decision, I’ll make pro/con lists and talk it over with friends, but I’m always keeping an eye on my own gut feeling. It’s helpful when a friend suggests an option and my gut goes “NO”. Like, scratch that off the list! 

I mean, Birds *can* use their gut as decision-making factor. But because this anecdote is about problem solving strategies, it goes in the Secondary category. And this is pretty darn Badger secondary, using the group as such an important part of your problem solving strategy.

Normally I’d say something about wanting to try and make the world better but all I want to do right now is sit quietly and make art. That’s the burn out though.

That's a pretty idealist primary answer. But also... one you don't feel 100% great about, going by that caveat about "burn out." Starting to see why you think you might be specifically a Burnt Lion.

I’m usually fairly intense; a coworker once compared me to that army charging down the hill in the Narnia movie. 

That could honestly be any secondary, but what has me interested is that this is the second time you've used the words of someone outside of you (your ex, your coworker) to define yourself. Which is more of an external primary thing (Bird or Badger.)

(I framed it above as “making the world better” and that is something I really care about, but honestly, part of it is that I like winning.)

I mean, no one likes losing. And "making the world better"... like what person wouldn't say that? They'd all just have different ideas of what that meant.

Describing a fantasy feels overwhelming, my gut instinct is to say “feeling free” but that’s not concrete.

(correct :)

I guess my perfect day would be waking up early, getting lost in an art project for hours while bread bakes, going for a walk by the ocean, meeting up with friends for brunch, wandering around with them, getting the news that I won a prize for my art, having dinner with some other friends, and then going home to call a long-distance friend, read a book, and fall asleep cuddling my cat. 

Three separate outings with friends in one day! :D So what I'm getting from this is that community is really, REALLY important to you. Your perfect day involves meeting two groups of friends, catching up with a long distance friend (presumably someone who's harder to keep in touch with, so chatting with them is itself a bit of a fantasy in itself.) And then you win a prize, ie - you are recognized by the community for your art. Also fresh bread specifically is such a shareable baked good... and none of this is problem solving. I'm wondering if you might be a Badger primary, just going by how much community has been weighted in this ask so far.

One of my friends suggested that I might be a snake primary

And to keep count, this is the third time you are defining yourself with the words of someone in one of your communities.

because I value loyalty and friendship so highly. Most of my happiest moments, when I felt the safest, were being around close friends.

You use a lot of collective nouns, which is a trick I use to divide Snakes from Badgers (because of course, they're both Loyalists.) You've used the word "friends" five times. With Snakes I hear a lot more "my partner" "my sister" "my best friend."

I definitely rank people in my life, and I don’t feel bad about prioritizing my favorites over others.

Badgers do prioritize the people they like slightly more. Badgers are *people,* and people have preferences. But they are also very aware of who has the most *need.* Like that writing workshop scholarship: you didn't need it the most, and so you felt bad about taking it. I bet you would have felt equally bad if one of your friends who also didn't exactly need it applied.

However, I’m really, really bad at basic self-care (we’re talking “eating regular meals” and “getting enough sleep.”)

I mean, this can be evidence of all sorts of things I am not qualified to diagnose over the internet... but having trouble with self-care is something that Badgers historically struggle with. a lot.

(and something that Snakes, even Burned Snakes, don't really have a problem with.)

Also, I recently moved away from most of my friends for an incredible opportunity. I miss them, but I never seriously considered not going. 

I'm going to take a guess that this new opportunity involves a group of some kind. I mean, clearly you have a lot of different groups of friends, which is fantastic.

A different friend, who is a snake primary, pointed out that I always need some cause or project. I do tend to get caught up in things and vanish for a couple months but always reappear eventually.

That's interesting. Because so far, when you've talked about a cause or project, the the recognition/other people involved seems kind of key. You like "winning": It's "I won a prize for my art" not "I sold a piece." And that's amazing, that's a great way to keep up energy and motivation. It just means you've probably got an External primary. (Bird or Badger.)

I know it’s not healthy to be consumed by a Purpose but I want to be.

Going from the tone of this ask, you seem a very upbeat, lively, dynamic person. Except when you're talking about these Idealist causes. Then it goes from "my happiest moments, when I felt the safest, were being around close friends" to "I know I'll burn out" and "it's not healthy." Where is all that coming from?

It feels stabilizing, invigorating—and safer than centering people. I even get stressed about how much I love my cat. People can hurt you, or they can leave, or change. Or you could leave them, or hurt them, or make a bad decision on who to trust. It just seems so precarious and vulnerable. I’ve had a hard time my entire life opening up to people -

I'm just going to point out, that I've written a bunch of these, and objectively... it sure seems like you've opened up to a LOT of people during your life. Now, maybe that's not as many people as you would ideally like, but that's also kinda a Badger primary thing. In a perfect world, a Badger primary would like to be able trust everyone. But when doing that doesn't feel safe... then the Badger primary burns a little. And, Burned Loyalists have a way of looking like stressed-out Idealists. (the same way that Burned Idealists will look like stressed-out Loyalists.)

I'm honestly not getting much Burnt Badger energy from you though. Maybe like, a light toasting. On your bad days.

- or letting myself need them.

There we go. I mean partially, yes having trouble needing other people is a human thing. But Badgers primaries are so, so much happier being needed and useful themselves than the other way around. (It's why they tend to have boundary issues.)

I’ve cut friends out before and didn’t feel bad about it because they hurt people and didn’t take responsibility for their actions—

Sounds like they hurt the group? Which is a very Badger primary way of thinking about it, and a good example of Badger primary opt-out loyalty, versus Snape primary opt-in loyalty. A Badger will say 'I will care about you until you do xyz' while a Snake will say 'I won't care about you until you do xyz.'

but none of them were in my inner circle. On the other hand, I had a hard time setting up boundaries with an ex because I loved her and she needed help.

Boundary issues. Need-basing. (Badger)

(I used to wonder if she was a good person who sometimes did selfish things or a selfish person who was capable of great kindness. Eventually I decided the question was reductive and didn’t matter.)

I think you're right about that. I suspect we are all both, at different times.

My family is….complicated. I was the kid who had to be okay.

Ooof, I hear that.

Like, I started to organize the holiday cooking/baking schedules when I was a teenager. When I was a child, I went through some trauma that I kept hidden from everyone, including my parents, because, like, why would I tell an adult? What could they do? I was a mess, but learned how to seem like I was fine. I read my parents’ child psychology books so I could tell when they were using things from them on me. 

Yeah, this is brutal. It'd be brutal for anyone, but especially brutal for a Double Badger, which I suspect you are. You're describing a situation where, very young, your community just was not safe. It couldn't help you, or protect you, it was even trying to "trick" you (with child psychology methods.) And in that situation, what do you do? Well, you're a child so you go Invisible Badger, where your identity just /is/ whatever the group needs. And apparently... your family needed an easy kid who planned holiday get togethers.

My dad’s a double bird.

Maybe *that's* where some of your Birdy language is coming from.

My mom’s either a badger secondary or has a badger secondary model (maybe actor bird?). She has a very obvious Socializing Mode and it used to frustrate her that I didn’t follow suit. She once told me before a party “you’re charming when you want to be, so please want to” (the year before, I had brought my history textbook to this party so I could look studious and get out of talking to people). 

That is both very relatable, and has a number of potential causes. (I have a very hard time at a lot of holiday parties, I find them very overstimulating, and will absolutely find ways/excuses to tuck myself away for a little bit.)

Your mom strikes me as more an Actor Bird than a Courtier Badger. She just has this 'Social Mode' setting which she can just turn on, even if (presumably) she's not feeling it that day. And she thinks that you do too... but I think you might be wired differently. And that's the Courtier Badger thing: in the moment, you have to authentically /become/ the thing, or it doesn't work.

For years, I thought I was a bird secondary. I love systems, I love knowing things, I love having something in my back pocket. I even used to have a system to determine which color of heart emoji to text (it was based on the closeness of the friend and the level of affection expressed).

That's adorable. And honestly, very useful-sounding.

I find roles comforting. I used to do costuming for theater and I still pick out my own outfits like I’m dressing a character, paying attention to what mood/vibe it communicates.

All of that sounds extremely Bird secondary. I will say though... it sounds like you had to build a model to survive your childhood, you had to "learn how to seem like I was fine." Bird is the most common model to build (especially if your dad is right there as a model.)

The issue is I like roles until they feel restricting or boring or I’m annoyed and feel like causing problems on purpose. As a kid, I was fairly mischievous. I convinced this kid in my class that I had a treehouse in my backyard where two Dalmatians lived, just for the fun of it. 

That feeling of getting "stuck" in a role is absolutely something Actor Birds struggle with. This, and the example near the beginning about getting more Liony with your Lion friends, makes me think that what you really like is having the opportunity to bounce off other people's energy. I get that. It's what I'm doing right now.

Sometimes I find my plans and elaborate systems claustrophobic. I automatically reach for them when I’m feeling anxious, but do they actually help?

Sounds like your Bird model functions as coping mechanism. I mean it's also a toy that you like to play with, yes, with your costumes and your systems. But it doesn't sound like it's necessarily something that you want to live in.

But I don’t know how else to tackle problems.

I mean, I'm hearing that you like to reach out to your friends, and then have quiet periods where you just buckle up and do your own thing.

(I think that your Bird model is just a little bit... burnt out. You've been using it so much that it feels like a chore, and that's where a lot of this burnt secondary language is coming from.)

Still, planning can absolutely trip me up. Some of my most successful moments came from just reacting.

Courtier Badger (or Snake. And I guess a very social snake /is/ possible. But Snake secondaries, and especially Badger Snakes, have a way of being either a little more deliberate (or a little more *guilty*) when it comes their face-changing.)

I can’t do it deliberately though, I overthink. It just…happens. Like I’m bad at flirting if I try but I’ve accidentally hit on people before. There’s been multiple times where I’ve had dinner with a friend and then realized it accidentally turned into a date.

Yep. Relatable. Badger secondaries (and not just me) often talk about getting into a "flow" state where you're completely in tune with the other person, reflecting them or bouncing off them. Sometimes you're not even sure how you got to a certain place, and have to come back down.

Sometimes I’ll do things instinctively and then have to backtrack to explain my reasoning to others (when explaining how to filter information in a database, “vibes” is apparently an insufficient answer).

I feel the same way about editing. I *love* editing, and I am aware that at this point I edit based on "vibes." Like yes, I'm sure I could think about it and logically explain my choices, but that's not what the process in my head looks like.

If there’s nothing I can bounce off of or if I don’t know how to read a situation, I freeze up. 

This is why Badger is a Prep-Work secondary, even though Badger secondaries are not generally comforted by very elaborate plans the way that Birds are. You get better the more you know about a situation and the people who are involved with that situation.

I don’t think that I’m a badger secondary.

Interesting. :) Let's hear the reasoning.

I do work a lot, but it’s not in a consistent, methodical way. My phone lock screen used to say “Work until they get pissed about it.” Lately though, I’ve been wondering if this burn-out inducing work ethic actually leads to success. I’ve achieved things through sheer effort but

I'm wondering how much of this "methodical" work ethic is you over-using your Bird secondary a little bit. Too many charts, too much planning. I'm wondering if maybe your dad was like that... and maybe it worked for him, but it sounds like a chore for you.

it feels like I’ve gotten where I am more by learning how to be good at things, figuring out what situations need, and people liking me. 

That is a straightforward description of a Badger secondary. ESPECIALLY the 'figuring out what a situation needs' and 'people liking me.'

I do reflexively adjust to people’s energy around me. It isn’t conscious, but sometimes I shift too much and lose myself in it.

SO. BADGER. When I shift too much, I can have almost a slight hangover feeling afterwards.

Like, I’m so focused on the moment that I’m not thinking about a longer term strategy. 

Badger. (But you are prepping. Because you're learning.)

Shifting does feels like I’m fooling people a little. Improving my way through a meeting at work instead of being prepared ahead of time feels like I’m getting away with something or cheating.

Nope. That's the Bird secondary in your head talking.

Still, it comes in handy. I once was in a meeting about something I vaguely knew how to do, but it turned out that it was actually about this very technical aspect that I didn’t have experience in. So, as I was talking around the issue, I was googling and speed reading. 

See, this where I think Badgers actually do shine. Because yeah, you didn't know the specific topic. But you knew the other people there, you knew the company, you knew what was needed, and so I bet you were value added, even just keeping the energy up.

I really want to be this super organized, steady person but I’m just not. I’m mercurial, easily bored, and so restless.

It sounds like what works best for you is friends, and play, and that's something that can kind of go missing from your life. But you like you love your job, you're good at your job. And I think you need to give yourself (and your Bird secondary model) a break.

But I think I do need a routine? My old job was intense and I was constantly on call. Now I’m in a new job that is more predictable and has very flexible hours. I can go grocery shopping any day of the week and it’s overwhelming. I don’t know how to be structured without feeling stifled. 

Going from a job where you are constantly on call to one with flexible hours is just going to be an adjustment, no matter what. You've also just recently moved, and are presumably building up your community in this new place. I think you're going to be just fine. The fact that the job is predictable will help, the fact that you're working with other people will help.

Thank you for your time! Hope you have a good day!

You are very, very welcome. <3

Thank you to R for such an excellent submission. If you'd like a Sorting of your very own, commissions are open on my ko-fi. :D

I've been writing about the Sorting Hat Chats system for a few years now, and one of the things I got pretty good at doing was Sorting people, after they write a little bit about themselves. If you were ever interested in getting into the system, or just interested in what House you'd be in, I am officially opening commissions at $25. Details in the link below.

And just to be fun I'm dropping in a couple testimonials :D

Hey, if you’re still interested in sorting people i’d like to ask what you think! i think snake/bird or bird/bird are maybe likely for me, but the there’s some difficulty with finding what i’m motivated by as, similarly like you said about Ed Teach, the answer is not much.

arguments for bird primary (i think) are:

1. my co-worker saying that i’m a ‘technical’ person, being nitpicky about how things are said

Being very technical/nitpicky about phrasing is more of a secondary thing. Probably evidence of a Prep-work secondary (Bird or Badger) or a prepwork model.

2. that one time me and and friend A were trying to peek inside friend B’s sketchbook while friend B was saying to us that she doesn’t want to show us, but then to get me on her side she said that when i didn’t want to show my sketchbook i said i shouldn’t be forced if i don’t want to, so she shouldn’t be either, and i was like yeah that tracks.

3. i do create consistent framework of ‘rules’

You are also coming in pretty strong with the numbered list. Bird primaries LOVE numbered lists. And creating consistent rule frameworks… well that’s the definition, isn’t it?

I loved doing that write-up about Ed Teach, because I think it’s rare that we see a Bird primary who is *young* the way he is, actively creating his framework of rules. But it’s absolutely a type of Bird.

arguments against bird primary:

1. one of my ‘rules’ is that motivation and feelings should be taken into     account when deciding what to do, as my motivation and energy are fickle - just ‘the truth’ isn’t enough for me?

But “just a feeling” wouldn’t be enough for you either, I’m guessing? Yeah, this is still Bird. Some Birds like using emotion as a data point. It’s like the thing with the sketchbook. Probably it felt fine/fun/not a big deal trying to get a peek at your friend’s sketchbook, but then you were reminded it went against a previously established rule, and instead of questioning the rule in an emotional way, you were like “oh, right, of course.” No one like hypocrites, but Bird primaries HATE hypocrites. 

2. in the quiz, specifically the question that if something convinced me that my people-first moral outlook is not as logical as some other hypothetical outlook, would i be guilty about abandoning, and i would be guilty. though i honestly mostly think that that kind of outlook is right, but don’t act on it much. one time i almost went volunteering. this might point to snake-admiring-badgers phenomenon?

Or Birds admiring Badgers. Honestly, the way this is phrased is very “I would feel guilty giving up a people-first outlook, because people first is objectively right.” Which… is Bird. Heck, asking “is people-first the way to go” is a question you seem to be currently dealing with. 

i think i could be motivated by close connections, as even when i’m unmotivated by other things idea of it seems very resonant, but i’d never had ones (with deep mutual understanding and stability and whatnot. except maybe my sister), so i don’t know what i’d act like if i did.

So you think you might like the Snake way of doing things… but it’s totally a hypothetical. 

Tell me about what you were like as a kid: i read a lot, until i was 8-10 only encyclopedia-type stuff–i think i liked making sense of things, though maybe that’s true for all kids. 

Reading mostly/only encyclopedias until you’re ten is not typical kid stuff. I’m thinking Bird for you. I’m thinking Double Bird for you. 

i also remember being unmotivated and cynical in a specific way, like i remember thinking things like “sure, this superpower (like bending) seems fun, but if suddenly people were able to do it, it would very quickly become boring like everything else” a lot. i was also kinda shit at interacting with other kids, i approached them kinda earnestly, but was confused on what to do next.

Getting neurodivergent vibes off of you, which is unrelated to this system. All this really tells me is that whatever secondary you have, it’s got a social setting. 

people talk about missing experiencing happiness like they did in childhood, but for me it’s not like that, i actually became a bit better at it with time.

Personally I think it’s a red flag when people idealize or talk constantly about their childhood. 

What’s your fantasy?: i’d like to have people who really care about me and understand me and the other way around, have things i want to do and would be able to dedicate myself to, possibly something intellectually stimulating.

Pretty general so far. A kind of general Badger primary fantasy (which you did lead with, so there’s that.) And a pretty general Idealist fantasy. 

and that’d make me feel competent, be able to figure out how to express myself in art.

I think your secondary might be a little burnt. I’m keeping an eye on ‘I did a cool thing but idk it’s probably pretty normal’ ‘I don’t know what to do in social situations’ ‘I don’t feel competent/able’ type asides. 

also not exactly a fantasy, but i’ve considered that if there was a button to press that traded my life for a huge amount’s of people’s lives or happiness i’d do it, because it makes sense to, 

That’s a general hypothetical, because honestly a LOT of people would do that, for a lot of different reasons. 

but i wouldn’t be that willing to put work in the greater good. except if the problem was fun i guess.

Your secondary is a  bit burnt, and if I were you I’d probably do a deep dive on executive functioning / adhd, but disclaimer - I do not diagnose with these, that is super unethical and also not possible. 

Is there a character who you *really* identify with? (Why?): honestly not really? there’s mostly instances. for example in sortinghatchats’ sorting of Sokka they talked about how when he understood that for example he shouldn’t be sexist, it was important for him to not to be, and that it wasn’t a gut reaction. other than moments similar to this. 

I mean, SHC did sort Sokka as a pretty loud Double Bird.  

i might relate to  characters who are disconnected from themselves and are basically learning how to be a person. 

Yeah… that sounds pretty Bird to me. That sounds like a lot of Bird primaries I know. 

What makes you feel powerful?: when there’s a need to define/make sense of things, and i get to do that

Bird. 

What was an especially difficult time in your life? What made it difficult?: there was a period in uni where i stopped doing assignments and got really behind and isolated myself. it was difficult because i felt incompetent, bored, and like there was nothing worth doing, and because even though i was really down, it didn’t seem like my friends cared that much to help me or even to listen to me.

Have you considered that you might have been depressed? 

Tell me about your parents/family situation/current living situation: i live with my parents and two siblings.

my dad is gets stuff done, is analytical and seemingly never thinks that he could be wrong. i like asking him questions and listen him to him explaining stuff, and he likes doing the explaining but i kinda gave up on having non-one-sided discussions with friendly disagreements - he gets way too intense about ‘convincing’ me he’s right, and i’d like him to just talk like there’s a possibility that there’s truth to what i’m saying too. he obviously cares about me and my siblings but does have emotional-stuntedness of a dad. can often be cold to my mom.

It sounds like your dad is an extremely loud Bird primary - and I’m thinking that being told again and again that your own Bird is wrong and doesn’t measure up… has probably contributed the burning, and the way you seem to see yourself as not especially capable. 

my mom is very emotional, spiritual and absentminded, has a bit of a thing about not expressing her boundaries at all, until pushed to the edge, and trampling a bit over others’. we regularly go get coffee or travel a bit, but in our dynamic she tends to share about her life and feelings a lot, and i mostly not at all, because if i did i’d just feel misunderstood and frustrated or patronized, or she’d just ignore what i say about my perspective and continue talking about how she sees it. our sense of humor is sometimes nothing alike, and sometimes exactly the same.

Your mom sounds like a pretty loud Badger primary. 

me and my older brother used to bicker a lot, and he would tease me, a bit meanly - basically typical sibling relationship, but later we mostly stopped interacting, then he had some serious mental health issues, he got somewhat better and now we’re awkwardly polite. also in a weird turn now i seem to have more power in our dynamic, because he sees me as a confident and assertive person, which i’m not?

I wouldn’t say that. You’ve got a burned secondary, but you definitely seem to be out there doing stuff. And you somehow beat that period of depression, so cheers. 

my little sister is about a decade younger than me, she’s in early teens now, but i think we understand each other best in our family. we sometimes watch shows together. when she was very small i didn’t like her much and thought my mom spoiled her, but at some point realised that when i was younger and being a bastard my family pointing out that i was being a bastard and judging me just made me feel and act worse, so i tried be someone who she’d feel likes her as a person even when i don’t like how she acts, and we got along since then. she has a bit of fiery temperament and has a tumultuous relationship with our mom. 

Hi! I’ve passively loved this system for a couple of years now but it’s only now that I’ve discovered that you actually do real people sorts! Anyway, I am pretty sure of being a Snake primary, but I’ll have you be the judge of that.

My Dad is a double Snake, however, my Mum I think is a Badger/Lion and this obviously creates a lot of conflict between them. I really care about both of them and though me & dad understand each other better on a fundamental level, he can also be quite a harsh and manipulative person (he has the typical Snake secondary thing where he tells you whatever you want to hear until you get close to him or he’s exhausted enough  to let the masks drop, and at that point he becomes quite harsh, which my Badger/Lion mum does NOT like, and she especially doesn’t like how “fake” he is), and my Mum always reacted very negatively to my behaving like him. 

A Double Snake and and Badger Lion could easily have periods of looking very similar, and very in sync, and then just… circumstances change and they couldn’t be more different. That’s a tricky one to navigate. So you’ve got a bit of cultural negativity surrounding Snake secondary, noted. 

So I kind of spent most of my life feeling torn because the two people I cared about the most had very opposing expectations of my personality

Definitely getting inklings of a Loyalist primary (Badger or Snake.) 

my Mum’s love in particular felt very conditional even though she was always very supportive of all my intellectual endeavors.

I spent the first 18-ish years of my life with “saying whatever I need to get what I want” as my primary strategy in life 

Definitely sounds quite Snake secondary (sounds a lot like your Dad’s Snake.) 

 and constructing a “cool, popular girl” personality that would give me enough social capital to get whatever I want.

Oooh, have we got some Bird secondary going on? Because this sounds like it could be Actor Bird. The very conscious way you went about building “Cool, Popular Girl” (even using words like “constructing”) and fact that this persona has a name, probably had a costume, and is purpose-built for a specific environment, not a specific person... sounds very Bird.

What I wanted, though, wasn’t anything particularly ambitious: I’m very conflict averse so I made shit up to avoid conflict. 

I associate this with Snake and Bird, the two “I move” secondaries. They’re water, flowing around obstacles. Lions and oddly Badgers are far more likely to pick fights. 

I wanted to be have strong “ride or die” friendships with people I could protect and who could protect me in turn (I first wrote “group of friends” but I now realize that I kind of struggle with groups of people - I just never have the feeling of being part of a group, just having ties with individual people, so I guess I want to be part of a group in the sense of having ties of affection and loyalty with several people who also have them with each other).

This is such heavily Snake primary-coded language, that I’m kinda wondering if that’s on purpose, and you’re looking for a specific answer from me… :) 

However, because what I got from my mum and, quite honestly, the media I liked was basically “my personality=villain.” I tended to seek out other people perceived as “villains” as some way because I felt that they would accept me more easily. 

I wish it weren’t the case, but you’re right, that’s a common thing. Especially if you’re a Double Snake or a Snake Bird, which I think are your two most likely sortings right now. 

I also really hated people who treated their friends badly or arrogantly and tended to bully them 

I mean that’s the human thing, but it’s definitely something that would bother a Loyalist (Snake or Badger primary) a LOT. 

there was this one swotty girl who was constantly looking down at her friends and treating them badly, and I just decided to make her life living hell because I was so morally affronted by it. 

I’d love to know exactly what your strategies were, because that would tell me a lot about your secondary. But there does seem to be a suggestion that there was a Mean-Girls-stye *plan* here, which kind of makes me think Bird. 

Another friend also abandoned us and found another friend group where everyone was basically in love with him and he was using them for attention seeking purposes and I also reacted to this quite harshly.

“Abandon” is a very dramatic word to describe a friend [entering a slight fuckboy phase?] and switching friend groups. 

The thing is, I also tended to abandon some people, which doesn’t clash well a Snake primary, I guess? One of my HS friend groups were really quite asshole-ish, and I ended up ditching them, but that was because I felt like they were treating other close people (of theirs, not mine) badly? 

Okay. So here’s what I think is going on. You’re a Badger. Hear me out. 

Yes, I think that your Badger looked like a Snake for a good long while. But you’re close to your Dad, and your Dad’s a Snake, and young Badgers will do that, look like authority figures or beloved people in their community. It really hurts you that your parents are not a united unit, not a community. A Snake would have an easier time just having separate relationships with each of them, even if they didn’t get along. Same thing with your friend that switched friend groups. That’s a very Badger way of looking at the situation. The Snake thing would be, well - he’s your friend, and it doesn’t really matter what group he’s him. But a Badger would want him to stay in the better group, the group that was better for him. 

You hate it when people mistreat their group. You hate bullies (Captain America style.) That’s all Badger. You also talk about multiple, conflicting groups of friends, and that whole “Cool Popular Girl” - I mean, it’s not exclusive to Badger primaries, bit it is definitely a very common way for High School Badger primaries to present. 

I had also decided to start taking school and stuff more seriously and I just kind of felt like their affection would be conditional on my bad bitch persona, got scared and ran? It was a long time ago, I don’t really remember.

This is Bird secondary thing. Getting “suck” in a persona, and worrying that people only like you / you only have value because of it. 

The turnpoint came when I met my first serious boyfriend, who is definitely a Snake secondary but I’m honestly not sure if he’s a Snake or a Bird primary.

The so far elaborately constructed web of lies and reputation building that was my life led to the downfall of our relationship, because it combined with some external circumstances made trust difficult

You have a complicated relationship with Snake secondaries, but you yourself are a Bird. “Construction,” “reputation building,” the web metaphor… it sounds like a Bird. That’s just not how Snake secondaries think. 

what I somehow got out of it was a deep fear of betrayal and abandonment 

and possibly Burned your primary a little bit (probably another reason you’re picking Snake for yourself, Burnt Badgers look like Snakes. 

and the impression that if I wanted people to love me and stay by my side, I should be very open about who I am (so that I’m sure that it’s me that they’re loyal to and not their personal image of me), and just try to be the kind of kind, morally upstanding person that people couldn’t fault for anything.

These are two mutually exclusive goals. If you’re totally honest and open about who you are (the Lion secondary thing) - then you will absolutely ruffle some feathers and rub people the wrong way. It’s a totally different approach than being the “kind [person] that people couldn’t fault for anything.” (Which is more of a badger thing.)

Forcing myself to act like this led to a plethora of mental health issues because being very open about who I am is just… not who I am? 

You also just set yourself for failure. There is literally no way you could have achieved what you set out to achieve. And how is “forcing” yourself to act a certain way more open and genuine? It sounds like you built a Badger secondary model out of fear, and just sat in it for a while.

And it was very anxiety-inducing for me. Even now, when my mental health is much better and I’ve settled into who I am, I like showing off my playfulness and wit and keeping the rest of my personality behind a neutrally charming mask.

And that’s… good? Normal? That’s also very Bird. Just have a charming, Badger-flavored ‘customer service’ face that you wear as you go through the world. Go into Neutral when you feel comfortable. (Birds go into Neutral very much like Snakes do, but the change usually isn’t as dramatic.) 

Also, my success until that point was based on a lot of improvisation and quick thinking, and while I kept that to a point, it also always led to a bunch of moral panic because in my head, being this kind of person is what gets you abandoned.

Rapid-Fire Bird. There’s a little bit of your Bird coming through here, in that you want a foundation, you don’t want to just do the Snake thing. 

Anyway, I was a psychology major (I always liked understanding how people tick and how to get them to see or do what  you want them to without having to explicitly argue with them or convince them)

Very Bird. 

but I felt alienated with the “bleeding heart helping profession!!” people around me.

I am not at all surprised that the profession skews Badger secondary, and that it did not feel at all good being around all those Badger secondaries... when you’ve got such a messy relationship with your Badger model. 

I eventually settled for doing research on children growing up in harsh circumstances who develop externalizing symptoms, but it was just because throughout my life I met a lot of people like that and a lot of my close people are “misunderstood” because they sometimes behave harshly due to their harsh upbringings, so I wanted to vindicate them in a way, as well as vindicate myself because I cared about explaining why people sometimes act less than morally and yet can still be loyal and worthy of love and not automatically “bad people”.

I love this for you. It seems like this would just fit into your primary so nicely. You’ve got a category of people, who are your people and you’re going to vindicate them, and protect them - especially from other people seeking to dehumanize them. It’s so Badger, but in that lovely universal way. 

In the meanwhile, I kind of developed a Badger primary model, I guess, in that I do dedicate a lot of my time to helping people

… or you were a Badger all along…

 and being kind and open and inviting

yeah, that has absolutely nothing to do with being a Badger primary. I’m serious. That’s just your neutrally-charming mask. 

but whenever this is put to the test my Snake loyalties always always come first. 

I honestly haven’t seen this so far. The only individuals you’ve talked about are your parents (who bothered you by not being a group, your fuckboy friend (who left the group) and your first boyfriend, who you broke up with. 

And I also still always get morally outraged when people are disloyal to their close ones or treat them badly, 

This your primary talking. (your why, what gets you out of bed in the morning)

whereas the general kindness and the work I put in towards making sure the world is a kinder, fairer place is just something that I do, no emotional attachment to it, and I don’t expect other people to do it at all.

This is your badger secondary model talking. (how you go about doing things, how you present to the world.) Both Badger, yes. EXTREMELY different. 

I honestly don’t think a lot about morality, aside from the generic “be kind and try not to fuck people over unless you really have to”

I mean, you did just say. “I also still always get morally outraged when people are disloyal to their close ones or treat them badly.” I think you just must not consider that sort of thing… really morality, in some way. But Badgers get their morality from their group. Their highest moral good is to make sure the group is doing okay. It doesn’t have to be more complicated than that. 

rationally constructing a system of morality or trying to arrive at some kind of internal hunch both feel kind of empty to me? 

Because you’re not a Bird or Lion primary? Of course it does. 

Now, as for the secondary, my knee jerk reaction is to say Bird because I’m in research, and ever since childhood I’ve always been a very logical person. I’ve eventually learned to be quite systemic in my problem solving process because I need it for research, but what I like about this career is the problem solving aspect of it, like you have a goal (for example, an effective psychosocial information or the acquisition of a certain kind of information) and you have to figure out how to get to that information. Basically the most efficient way of getting from A to B.

 I make sure to be systemic and thorough and analytical because it’s the most surefire way to get things right in my line of work, but I also take pleasure in kind of categorizing and putting information in order, and connecting it along different lines. I also really care about proper methodology and not half-assing things to get the results that you want, because I think that the results that you want are the results that are accurate and useful in the real world, not the ones that make you look better.

Wait, am I a double Snake?

Okay, now you’ve got ME worried - I must have really screwed up explaining something, because how can you write something THAT bird secondary, love systems as much as you do… and arrive at the conclusion that you’re a Snake? 

What I know for sure is that I absolutely do not identify with “knowledge for knowledge’s sake”, but I do have a really broad criteria for what “useful knowledge” is because I’m capable of thinking quite abstractly, so I can see the utility of almost anything.

That is very, very, very Bird. I’m starting to see the problem though. “Knowledge for knowledge’s sake” is an older phrase that owes more to the parent system than I would like, but it does essentially mean “no knowledge is wasted, the most useful way to solve problems is to preemptively hoard knowledge.” 

What I am really also passionate about is presenting things in the right way. I love writing, and I love public speaking, because I get to put myself in the other person’s shoes, imagine how they will “receive” what I’m saying and then tailor my presentation or short story or whatever to lead them to the conclusion that I want them to reach. But I dislike manipulating people with this: the conclusions that I want them to reach are the ones that I personally consider accurate, not the ones that benefit me.

First thing, you sound like an absolutely incredible person, and by pretty much any metric you want to use, a *good* person. (And no, that’s not because the way you’ve written this is manipulating me. This is my little game, I’m good at it.) 

What I can tell you that tailoring a presentation to an audience - that’s just a Rapid-Fire Bird who knows their stuff doing trick-shots, and I bet it’s beautiful to see. You are delivering information in a way that the audience can properly take in, because you know both your audience and your information well enough to do that, and that is incredible. 

My knee-jerk reaction is always to improvise, but I feel like this makes me come off as a “fake” person if I change my mind on what I said later (I change my mind A LOT), so I try not to say what sounds good in the moment because it will bite me in the ass later and lead to a reputation of a flaky, fake person, I guess?

Not 100% sure what you mean here. Changing your mind… is just a personality trait, it doesn’t really have to do with why you do things or how you do them. I think you would call tailoring your presentations improvisation, and I really wouldn’t. It’s not improvisation, it’s just looks like improvisation because you’ve come up with a hundred different ways to say this thing, and then on the day you can pick the one that works the best. If you had to do the same thing, but not in your preferred subject matter/environment, it would be basically impossible.

But I also really pride myself on my logical and thorough assessments of situations, and I tend to like thinking things through when I get the chance for it, often postponing decisions until I’ve thought about all the eventual longterm consequences of all the courses of action I might take. 

Bird. 

What trips me up is my trauma-induced fixation with being “honest” and avoiding “lies”, which are more about their eventual inefficacy and worthlessness and less about their moral rightness or wrongness (and also because manipulative=bad, as my Mum spent all of my life saying). My line of thinking is, “Things built on lies or self-delusion always crash down and burn, and it is right that they do so that more stable and honest things can take place”

What are you building on lies? If anyone’s work has a solid foundation, it’s yours. And as we’ve previously discussed, even IF you were doing your mom’s brash Lion secondary thing, wouldn’t that be in a lie in itself, because it’s not your natural presentation, it’s something you need to force yourself to do? 

but I also kind of use it to do shady shit - like I don’t feel morally wrong in hitting up a man in a relationship, because if he really cares about his woman the only person who’ll get burned is me and if he doesn’t I saved her the trouble of wasting more of her time on him?

This is actually a really interesting aside, because it’s you telling me how you handle a moral issue (that makes it a Primary thing.) 

Is it wrong to hit on a married man? Your answer is No: either you get turned down because he’s staying faithful, and that’s your own personal risk, or he cheats, in which case he’s kind of … dehumanizing himself? And therefore you are doing his partner a favor because she can now get rid of this unhealthy member of her community. There’s a logic there, and it’s a kind of ruthless Badger primary logic. 

So not sure if Snake or Badger secondary?

Bird. 

P.S. After some self-reflection, I realized that I’m probably not a Bird secondary

I’m listening. 

because I really hate following plans and situations where I have to rely on concrete skills and not abstract problem solving terrify me. OTOH I am very proud of my general ability to assess a situation and act appropriately.

Not sure how you’re distinguishing between “concrete skills” and “abstract problem solving.” From what you’ve been telling me, it sounds like you need the concrete skills before you can do the abstract problem solving, as in they work together. 

I’m also known as the person who changes PowerPoint slides in the middle of a conference based on whoever’s speaking before her and adapting her speech accordingly, which freaks the shit out of my coworkers, so I guess any “planning” type is probably out for old me 

That’s the most Rapid Fire Bird thing I ever heard. You made a plan. The PowerPoint and the speech exist. You’re just adapting them on the fly, based on previously-existing knowledge. I’m starting to think that you’re one of those Bird secondaries who is SUCH a loud Bird secondary, that it can be hard to get your head the idea that your skills are skills, and not sort of neutral abilities that everyone has. 

my latent distaste towards being a Snake secondary is my burny oppressive bullshit against anything that’s not “stalwart honesty and consistency” that I’ve been imposing on myself for years.

which I really wish you didn’t feel like you had to. 

Because I do love winging it and just saying whatever’s the most situationally appropriate thing regardless of how much it reflects me and I’ve just been treating any kind of play acting like a recovering alcoholic treats drink so I no longer even remember how it feels anymore lol.

Wisteria, really appreciate all the insight and time you’ve put into everything!  I’ve always had a hard time placing myself in the SHC system, so I’d really love to be sorted. I’ll go through the prompts since I think they’re really thought provoking and insightful, and there are so many moving parts and nuances to any given person I wouldn’t even know where to start talking about myself otherwise.

I'm glad people are liking the prompts! I *am* picky about prompts in general, so I really did try to make these ones as interesting and as useful as possible.

Tell me about what you were like as a kid ~ As a child, I was told I was very happy, social, and caring - that if I saw someone picking up garbage on the street I’d run to help, that one time I gave my friend the gloves off my own hands when we were building a snowman because I saw she was cold

You sound like an adorable child. And there's definitely some Badger energy in here. There's this idea that you want to join in with what the community is doing (helping pick up garbage) and need-basing (your friend needed the gloves more than you did. Of course, this could also be Paragon Lion, or maybe a model based on someone in your life. Need more data :)

I baked cookies and knocked on doors to sell them and donate the money to save the ocean

Okay, now this "save the ocean" bit is sounding more Idealist... especially if you were doing it solo. Door-to-door bake sale as a problem-solving method is also tipping me towards Prep-Work secondary - Badger or Bird.

but I also distinctly remember being hyper-independent in some ways as well. When other kids asked to play with me, I would only engage if I was actually interested, and had no issue playing on my own or running off to the library to read.

Classically, it's the Lions who are most comfortable being loners, and who really value their independence (as in, will choose independence over like... peace, or comfort.)

Part of it was that my parents were somewhat absent so I had to figure a lot out on my own. I would disagree with what my parents did teach me as well

You're making me think of Roald Dahl's Matilda.

For example, I remember my dad sitting me down as a child and trying to tell me that it’s good to always be competitive to come out on top (he’s a very success driven, ambitious person who told me his goal as a kid was to end up in a history book)

Your dad sounds like a Glory Hound Lion.

and me telling him I disagreed and felt that sometimes, yes, it’s good to compete and aim to improve in that way, but other times call for collaboration too.

... but I'm leaning more Paragon Lion for you.

I had a very strong sense of what I felt and believed was right and wrong, even at a young age. I remember arguing with teachers, friends, family, and strangers alike whenever someone’s views didn’t align with mine, just because I believed in myself and letting my ideas/ideals be known.

This is all very Idealist primary stuff, and I'm really doubling down on Lion. That moment where you hear an authority figure say something and think... oh no, that is wrong, the way you are seeing things is wrong... is both a very Lion primary response, and a common Lion core memory. I also think young Lions are by far the most likely to go full rules lawyer or devil's advocate with authority figures.

At times I would find I was wrong (no one is right all the time, no matter how strong-willed they are about it) and this would make me feel embarrassed/ashamed, but I stood by my own thoughts/feelings in future instances nonetheless.

Yup. That's a Lion thing. We can get stubborn about our emotions, and realizing you were wrong can get... messy.

I think that sense of shame when I was wrong ended up carrying over into more minor things as well. At the end of the day, no matter how independent and strong willed I could be, I did ultimately still care about other people and what they thought.

Of course Lions do care what people think sometimes - everyone does. The difference is that a Lion feels most badass, strong, and powerful whenever they really, truly don't.

It bled into things like if someone said a song I liked sucked or something, I’d start wondering if my music taste is any good. This would only really apply if I cared about the person and/or their opinion though - people I admired or thought had good taste of their own, for example.

Interesting. In the terms of this system, what you are describing here is Burning - not being able to trust your emotional instinctive response to things, which can happen when they steer you wrong too many times.

I've actually come to the point where I think it's healthy for Lions to burn, every once in a while. It sucks, of course it sucks, no Lion likes being Burnt... but I've found that Burning has a way of clearing out the gunk in a way that's ultimately useful, when it comes to re-calibrating yourself. When Lions are Burnt they do exactly what you're describing - lock on to the worldview/morals/opinions of someone who seems like they know what they're doing, and let themselves be pulled along.

I am really into the arts and being creative, and I think I ended up pretty private about it because I was scared of people putting down the most vulnerable sides of me. Except for theater, I proudly performed on stage when it came to theater, I think in part because I felt I was putting on a literal performance so it wouldn’t bother me as much if people didn’t like the character or my portrayal.

Your Lion primary absolutely went through a period where it was *sort of* Burned, and you didn't quite trust yourself. Not completely burned though - that hidden place where your art came from, that's you - and that stayed alive the whole time. Makes sense that you didn't want to show it around though, when it was too delicate to hold up to harsh weather.

I think there was also this deep sense of loneliness feeling like the people around me didn’t really understand me. Not 100% sure how this factors into sorting, but it was and is a persistent feeling/theme in my life. Another consistent theme is a motto of sorts: the only constant is change.

Those I would say are both big, relatable human things. Those are both core themes of the human experience that great thinkers and philosophers have been trying to make sense of for a long time now.

Tell me a low-stakes story about you solving a problem (like in a video game.) ~ I’m not a huge gamer, but I do like things like logic puzzles and escape rooms. I find it really fun to exercise that part of my brain. In an escape room, I’ll often approach things in a very logical manner. I also don’t necessarily stay on one puzzle for long if I get stuck though - there might be something else in the room to solve for me to get the clue needed to solve whatever I’m stuck on. I’ll make a note of anything I see in the room that could be used later.

That's just a good problem-solving method in general. But the fact you like the logic-puzzle, find-the-key element of escape rooms is definitely making me think Bird secondary.

I tend to be pretty efficient in these rooms and kind of take a leadership role in the group sometimes? Not necessarily intentionally, I just feel I start making sense of what needs to done before most of my peers do so I start delegating tasks - eg. there’s a 3 number combination lock here can you go look for numbers, there’s a series of levers here do we see anything directional in the room to know how to pull them, I’ll work on this puzzle here can someone look for this other thing, etc. As long as we don’t have some sort of disadvantage (one time we were separated into 2 rooms and my friend with bad vision happened to be in the dimly lit room) I tend to clear rooms with time to spare.

I know that Lion secondaries have the reputation for being "leaders," but I actually think that all the secondaries have a leadership-mode, and this style of "organize and delegate tasks" is very much a Bird secondary thing. The historical Napoleon strikes me as a Bird secondary, and so much of his success came from things like his ability to organize supply lines, and not so much being a revolutionary firebrand.

There are also times I do something based on intuition/instinct though, and results are mixed. If I’m really stuck and no amount of pivoting to another part of a room yields results, I’ll start trying things just to try them. One time, this was opening a locker based purely on the fact that the person’s surname was “King” and I decided to try to hit the numbers in a way that would write a “K” (147359 on a 3x3 number pad, if that makes any sense) which worked. Another time, this was posing in front of a random poster, which got some laughs and did not work. It was fun though!

I've written before (I think it came up in my Princess Ariel sorting) about how when Bird secondaries don't have any relevant skills prepared, whenever they're out of their depth... they look exactly like Lion secondaries. The difference is that they're feeling frazzled and stressed, while a Lion secondary in the same situation would just be vibing.

Tell me a high-stakes story about you solving a problem ~ Hmm… with high stakes, I feel I get a lot more “let me approach this from all angles” about it, not just logical.

(which is still 100% the Bird secondary move.)

The specific instances I’m thinking of are highly personal so I’d rather not go too in depth about the situations themselves, but I’ll mention that I’ll approach it from an emotional standpoint, from a logical standpoint, from how I feel is right, etc. and keep pivoting until I find the best way to resolve it. I really do think, as wonderful as being logical and using reasoning can be, and as fun as it can be, it can’t be the approach to every problem. Especially when the problem involves people. We’re highly emotional creatures and that must be considered, to cut that out of resolving something is to expect a person not to be a person.

What you're describing sounds to me like a Lion primary and a Bird secondary working together beautifully. The emotional component is first - it's listed first, and you come back to it again at the end. You can't compartmentalize the emotion, you would never even want to try, because that would feel like losing something. Your logic and your reasoning is fun, and it's useful... but it's not at the core, which is why you're a Lion and not a Bird primary.

On top of that, I really do care about people, so I want to ensure whatever resolution is reached works best for everyone involved

You're definitely a Badger-flavored Paragon Lion. Fits right in with the picking-up-trash and saving-the-ocean stuff you did as a child.

(I wouldn't be surprised if the test gave you Badger at some point, but I'm absolutely seeing Lion.)

otherwise it’s not a real resolution as it’s not emotionally resolved and the problem may come up again in a different form later down the line.

You are able to intellectualize and explain your primary in a way that not every Lion is, so I wouldn't be surprised if you considered Bird for yourself at some point. But what I'm seeing is a strong, beloved Bird secondary taking a look at your Lion primary, and trying to assist. Your primary, your 'why,' is much rooted in emotion, independence, and your own personal internal experience... which is what makes you a Lion.

Tell me about the process you go though when you’re making a really difficult decision ~ It depends. If I have a strong gut reaction, I’ll usually trust it.

Lion.

Sometimes after the fact, I’ll realize the reasons as to why I felt that way and have a more logical explanation for things. And even if I don’t, that’s okay, I’m doing what I feel is right.

The realest 'real' is your gut response: that is the Lion primary experience. It's generally good and responsible to try to follow up and figure out where that strong emotional ping is coming from... but if you can't figure it out, or can't figure it out yet... you kind of shrug, and move on. Doing that would really bother a Bird primary.

If I don’t have a strong gut reaction, I’ll try my best to consider if from all angles - how would everyone involved feel? What do I feel might be future results/consequences? Are there any nuances to consider I may be missing? If there are things to compare to each other, I’ll also do things like make a spreadsheet or a list so I can see everything in direct comparison.

Fictional Lion primaries tend to have a really strong response to everything, but real Lions... don't. Your response to something might absolutely just be 'eh. shrug.' At which point your secondary takes over. I'm a Badger secondary, so I'm more likely to outsource the question to the community, but you're a loud Bird secondary, so of course you would do research, pro/con lists, and spreadsheets.

If I have a lot of feelings about it, I might journal or talk to a friend so I can try to understand those feelings and how they factor in.

The journal thing in particular is a HUGE Lion primary thing. Lions get so much out of just unpacking their feelings, and especially unpacking their feelings solo. I think Lion primaries are the most likely to be big journalers, and this is why.

If I’m feeling stuck in general, actually, I’ll likely talk it out with a friend. Sometimes verbalizing things helps me sort through my thoughts, and additional insight will bring new things to light to consider.

I love that you have a trusted friend, but I have literally had Lion primaries who are just into rubber-ducking, or Lion primaries who write me and answer their own questions by the end of the submission. I can absolutely attest to how useful just saying a thing aloud can be - sometimes you've got to pull something out of pathos and into logos, and that is how you do it.

If, after all this, I’m still stuck, then I’ll just have to make a decision and see where it goes. Sometimes decisions have to be made when not everything lines up.

I think everyone can benefit a little from the "just do it" mentality. The conditions are never going to be perfect. You're never going to have all the information. To me any decision is better than no decision at all. But that's also the Lion primary talking, and I know that Bird primaries are much more likely to freeze if they get really, really stuck.

What’s your fantasy? ~ There are a few. When I was a kid and I was asked what I wanted to be when I grew up, I always said I wanted to be happy and around people I loved who loved me. I don’t think that one’s changed.

I mean, that's kind of perfect, isn't it?

I also have, at certain points in my childhood, wanted to be a film director or even the president because, in my own words at the time, “everyone listens to them.” I don’t really want that level of responsibility anymore, I think I was just a bossy child who hadn’t considered the nuances.

A little bit of Glory Hound Lion is normal when you're a kid. Young Lion primaries tend to be very interested in the idea of power in the abstract (and can often have pretty generic fantasies like 'rich' or 'famous.') The freedom to follow their own instincts is so important to Lions, and it's generally something you don't have as a child... so young Lions will become very interested in whatever they think might get them that freedom.

I also wanted to be in a band or an actress for a while - I loved to create and express, and I wanted to show that to people. I still think that’d be cool, but don’t consider myself much of a performer - I like writing music and having that outlet, but I get nervous on a stage. Of the more lofty fantasies, I’ve always been really into reading and generally consuming media like TV shows and movies, and I sometimes motivate myself through hard times by thinking about the hardships my favorite characters went through and how I want to be strong, or heroic, or fiercely kind, or whatever else like them. Sometimes when I’m really into a character, I might take inspiration from them in terms of fashion choices or some of their attitude toward life as well.

Birds love a costume. This specific tendency - modeling your look and attitude off a favorite fictional character - is absolutely a bird secondary thing, and one I find *really* charming.

Is there a character who you really identify with? Why? - There are a few. Akira from Devilman Crybaby. Wei Wuxian from MDZS. Nezha from Chinese mythology in general. Keith from Voltron. Zuko from ATLA.

I wish I knew more of these guys! I do know that Wei Wuxian has been sorted as a Lion Badger with a Snake secondary model, and Keith has been sorted as a Double Lion, (it's almost like you really like Lion primaries) and Zuko as a Badger Lion... but with all sorts of interesting Burning and unBurning going on.

I think characters that are both soft and emotional as well as protective and angry, and in some way misunderstood by their peers. Characters who deeply want to do good, but have their actions misinterpreted and have to overcome a sense of loneliness I really identify with. On a less deep note, these characters have either a black or red (or both) color scheme, as well as either demon or fire (or both) motifs. I really vibe with the aesthetic.

Hey, don't overthink it. I am not surprised at all that you are drawn to emotional, protective characters who struggle with some degree of Burning and loneliness.

What makes you feel powerful? Feeling heard. Feeling competent.

That's coming from your secondary.

Being able to make a change. Support from people I care about. I think those are the main things.

... and that's coming from your primary. You're very balanced.

What was an especially difficult time in your life? What made it difficult? ~ For most of my life, I’ve really struggled with a deep loneliness. I think it’s trauma based as my parents were not the most present, and many of my interactions with them (my dad in particular) were not the most positive, so from a young age I didn’t really have the familial connection children need.

That would be hard on anyone. But I do think that having a dad who sounds like a pretty intense Glory Hound Lion... would be a lot on a young Lion learning to trust yourself. You're hearing over and over again that the way you see the world, what you want out of life... is incorrect. What were you supposed to think?

That loneliness really escalated at one point in high school when I felt like I had no one and nothing.

A Burnt Lion without even a person to lean on.

I wasn’t that good at my hobbies and began to lose interest. I didn’t have many friends and the ones I did have had other, better friends they preferred. My grades weren’t the best. There were other events that genuinely made me feel helpless and hopeless, it was a really dark time.

It honestly sounds like your secondary Burnt for a little bit there to. Yeah, I BET it was a dark time.

I’m in therapy and have gotten a lot better, in recent years the only thing that even came close to how I felt then is one particularly bad breakup I had back in 2020 where I really thought that person was my person and I’d put a lot into the relationship.

You honestly seem to have pulled yourself out of it extremely well. You come across as intelligent, thoughtful, balanced, and emotionally healthy. I have zero doubt you will find your people.

What are the important relationships in your life? ~ My friends and my partner. My inner circle or found family, if you will. I do also care about a sense of community, but will prioritize my found family. That being said, I am not afraid to disagree or speak up about issues with my inner circle, and I’m not afraid to cut people off if our morals are too far unaligned. If they show me growth/change, that’s when they’ll get another chance. For the most part, I also deal with people leaving my life decently well. If it was an amicable parting, they’re welcome back anytime. If not, we have different paths in life to take.

Spoken like a true Lion, and I honestly love hearing all of that. You sound like you're in a good place. I know it hasn't been easy, but I'm glad you sound so grounded and happy now.

Thank you to K for such an excellent submission. If you’d like a Sorting of your very own, commissions are open on my ko-fi. :D