"they argue and bicker, but they also care for each other, there is a reason why Gregoir spares the mages only if he sees Irving alive (also we need old peopl yaoi)"
vs. Elthina/Meredith
""Go back to the Gallows and calm down, like a good girl.""
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thoughts on Gregoire kinlock hold? I can't decide if my mage warden would have been silently afraid of him, and it feels like while it's not hate he doesn't like the warden? (And his 'finally you know you're place' after u refuse Duncan's offer and say you'll face the consequences is crazy)
greagoirās an interesting one! i think itās important to remember he is presented as āthe model templarā and can in many ways be taken as a standard. from a templar perspective including his own, he can be considered āone of the good onesā, an honour-driven man running one of the supposedly better and more lenient circles (as always, yikes!) with a considerable amount of grudging respect for his first enchanter counterpart
i donāt think greagoir hates mages, itās not that passionate, and he would certainly object to the accusation. i do think that mages, to greagoir, are largely an inconvenience in the way of him performing his duty, especially the young ones who havenāt āsettled downā into circle life, or refuse to. and that frustration can reach a little more of a boiling point with irvingās favourites, who i suspect he thinks take far too many liberties, especially with the recent history of andersā various debacles. while he isnāt sure how, during the mage origin he definitely recognises that in some way irving has outplayed him, and he would certainly have punished irvingās student to see that balance restored. (arguably, just as irving wanted to see lily punished. this is a game of lives theyāve been playing for a long time, though the stakes for irving are naturally much higher and more personal.)
Sten: "This is why we cut the tongues from mages, in Par Vollen."
Greagoir: "I will admit to agreeing with your companion. Maker knows the Qunari would not have gotten themselves into this position."
greagoir wouldnāt start cutting tongues from every mageāhe is a lawful man who acts according to the chantryās will. he also wouldnāt vindictively want to start cutting tongues from every mageāhe considers himself a reasonable man doing his duty, purposeful not cruel, and that would be monstrous. but what he does think is that it would be a practical solution to the problem he faces
i think a lot about his line, āit is the innocent folk of ferelden who matter. i would lay down my life, and the life of any mage, to protect them.ā i take that as a very genuine assertion of his principles. itās also an admission that the mages, from the children to the eldest, are fundamentally not āinnocent folkā, whether because they are by nature āguiltyā or because they are not quite people
as the arbiter of templar ājusticeā, i think it makes sense for a mage warden to fear him. i also think heās someone who a different warden might be accustomed to being around and arguing with irving all their life, almost a secondary father figure, and not have learned to truly fear him. a third warden might be grateful to him for curbing other templarsā more vindictive or sinister impulses, and a fourth might firmly believe that fear of a disciplined templar is unnecessary as long as they follow all the rules, and a fifth might be a casually rebellious kid confident in the belief that heās powerless and their first enchanter mentor will always protect them from him, and a sixth might bitterly resent him for punished or tranquil friends, etc. etc.
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Thinking about Wynne and Greagoir today. What must it have been like when he returned to Kinloch Hold from Denerim?
Greagoir is hinted at being the father of Rhys (Wynne's son) in The World of Thedas Vol. 2 (emphasis my own):
As a young templar, Greagoir was described by his superiors as a "model templar. Strong, skilled, and devoted to both the Chantry and the mages, he was thought by many to be the picture of what the templars should be at their best... Though Greagoir spent most of his career at Kinloch Hold, the knight-commander's journals show that Greagoir was sent away to Denerim for a period of about a year and a half, just before the beginning of the Dragon Age. Though his absence was attributed to the chantry in Denerim requiring templars, rumors abounded that he was ordered to leave as part of a punitive sentence for trespasses unknown. However, the knight-commander was quick to take action against any who repeated the rumors, and the gossip soon stopped. When Greagoir returned, he seemed to be the same templar he always was, as focused and dedicated to his duties as ever.
We also know that Rhys's father gave Wynne a letter, which she held on to for the rest of her life (emphasis my own):
It's a good thing we haven't spoken much since my return. Anger put my mind in disarray and civility would have been damn near impossible. But it is time, and perhaps in writing, I can put into words what I find difficult to say in person.
You told me you had no choice but to let them take him. Tell that to yourself if you must; we both know it isn't true. You had a choice from the very start. From the moment you found out. But you withheld knowledge of my own son from me because you knew I would have found a way. You knew I would have given up the Order for the both of you. So blame my love for the Chantry, the templars, my vows, if it helps you live with it. Maintain the fiction that you couldn't drag me down with you. Pretend that you are the martyred party. I always know the truth: you chose your place in the Circle over your own son. Your belief that perfect obedience could win a mage the trust of the Chantry was more precious to you than what we had. You decided to be helpless when you had a choice to fight. It wasn't your decision to make. He was mine, too. The Chantry may have taken him, but you kept him from me.
I have to assume that we're not supposed to take this 100% at face value. It's a letter written by someone who's deeply hurt at the loss of his son and he's trying to find someone to blame. Was his love for Wynne so deep that he actually would have given everything up? Or is it just easy for him to say that after the fact (once it's no longer a real, tangible thing he could do)? If I'm being ungenerous, it kind of reminds me a lot of stuff I see men say after they're angry their partner got an abortion for more "practical" reasons (e.g. economic) and have deluded themselves into thinking that they actually would've been able to provide a stable home life.
Wynne held on to the letter, though. Idk if I were so opportunistic that I'd gladly give up my child without a second thought in order to pursue my ambitions, I don't think I'd hang on to a letter accusing me of such. I'd probably throw it out and carry on with my work. We also know in DAO that Wynne thinks about her son all the time. She said that she was powerless to stop the Chantry from taking Rhys away from her. I haven't read Asunder, so I'm not sure what else we learn in there.
Perhaps they were both very deeply in love and Greagoir truly was willing to give up everything for them to be together. What would that have looked like, though? She'd be an apostate with a baby and her ex-templar partner who's kicking his lyrium habit. How does that turn out? Wynne feels like far too practical a person to consider that option seriously.
I just want to know more about their time together and their dynamic. I also love thinking about it in the context of an Amell/Surana warden in a relationship with Alistair: does she see herself and Greagoir, so many years ago? For any relationship, is this why she goes on so much about the conflict of duty and matters of the heart? Is this why she thinks it will go badly?
I really want to read a fic exploring their relationship over the decades! How this experience shaped both of them, turning them into the characters we see in DAO. I don't think it's as simple as "templar bad and wrong; mage good and right" (even though I am admittedly quite biased against templars and towards mages). I think he has his vision of what it means to be honourable and just for the sake of protecting people from the dangers of magic. I think Wynne (understandably) may have leaned more deeply into "the circles are good" as a consequence. There's safety in remaining at the circle. She can tell herself that she made the right decision by staying.
Maybe I'll just have to write it myself. Not sure if anyone else would be interested haha. I am quite possibly the only person who has this pair rattling in my brain.