Hi Wisteria! I’ve been loving your thoughtful and in-depth analyses and no one else in my life is familiar with the SHC system, so it’s been hard to get some outside perspective. English is not my first language, so please forgive my grammar/awkward phrasing at times. For my sorting, I am thinking Bird primary, though I’ve considered Lion and Badger primaries. I think I am not a snake primary. I have never felt there was an intrinsic moral hierarchy when it comes to people I care about. I still care for them, but at the end of the day, I think we are all living conscious beings who deserve equal treatment, rights, and consideration.

Definitely getting Idealist primary here (Bird or Lion, and I see why you're thinking Bird. Your whole position is well-thought out and well articulated.) I will say that 'all living conscious beings deserve equal treatment' is kind of the Badger mission statement,' but when we're in generalities that big, that thought could just as easily be coming from a Bird with some Badger in their System, a Paragon Lion, or even a really expansive Snake.

I also think prioritizing your own group is often dangerous.

This bit here could describe a Snake or a Badger equally well, depending on how we're defining the "group" we're talking about here.

A Loyalist would probably say that protecting the group is the only thing you know for sure you can do well, and when things get too big and Idealistic, they become unreal, hypothetical, and unsafe. But you seem perfectly fine with that level of big-picture stuff, so I'm happy to say Idealist for you. Also, there's an undercurrent of... suspicion, directed at Loyalists.

I guess I could be a snake that only includes themselves, as I do act in self-preservation a lot of the times

That's a human thing. If someone is *struggling* with turning on the self-preservation, that's a problem, and probably a sign of Burning, or a very immature Badger.

and struggle to trust people.

That can also come from a lot of different places.

I sometimes have an attitude of turning people bad in my head as soon as they act against me, or in a way that reveals their “true character”

Honestly, this kind of sounds like it could be a *Badger* thing?

Because Badgers have opt-out morality, they will often do this thing where you're one of their people, until you break the rules (or the social contract) badly enough. And then you're out, because you're a threat to the rest of the group.

(this is often a projection) and then tend to self-isolate.

Hmmm. And now you're back to being philosophical. Distancing yourself from the emotion of cutting people off. Much more Bird.

I thought bird primary because I do change my ideas about the world and morality quite often and refine my worldview as I discover new ideas. I am also very receptive to scientific ideas and do put logic and reasoned morality above intuition.

You also seem very chill about this whole process, which makes me say Bird again. (Not Lion. The process just tends to be a lot messier and a lot more emotional with Lions.)

However, my tendency to prioritize the perceptions of the group, my need to serve a larger purpose and my desire to be useful to society do feel quite badger-y.

They do. "Prioritize the perceptions of the group," especially is a very Badger thing to say. Badgers also like being useful to the group. But 'need to serve a larger purpose' is a big enough statement that it could work for almost anyone.

What Badger and Bird have in common is that they're both External primaries. What the world thinks is important, and you care about that in a way that Lions and Snakes just kind of don't.

As for lion, I do often act based on heuristics, especially if I haven’t thought out a specific issue yet.

Yeah, this isn't lion. For one thing - you used the word "heuristics." For another, you're stressing about the way you only rely on these "well xyz worked in past" mental shortcuts when you haven't "thought a thought out a specific issue yet." Implication being that, in a perfect world, you would have time to think it out completely every time. (Birds hate having to make snap decisions.)

I can also pretend to be more rational than I am, and tend to live life in automatic mode, by relying on assumptions and facts that sound good. I think I do this less than other people, but that is still a flaw I’ve noticed.

You rely on these "automatic" shortcuts less than other people, but think that you should use them less, and feel bad that you use them at all.

I wonder if you're a Bird primary living in a very Badger community. Or the flip, a Badger living with a bunch of Birds.

As for my secondary, I am a little bit lost. I am very much in my own head and not very action-oriented, so I feel like I lack the data to identify my secondary, or I am burned and just using whatever works. I usually just use stress to motivate action and procrastinate until the last minute.

Oh, the neurodivergent special. Save the non-preferred task for the last minute, and then use the adrenaline that generates to hack your brain into getting it done really fast. Definitely not the only person here doing that.

Childhood: As a kid, I was extremely quiet, sensitive, and introverted. From early on, I remember being very artistic and curious. I would dress up and improvise plays in front of my family. I also loved to draw, write poems, walk in nature, and learn about the world (I was especially fascinated with animals). I also loved to get lost in imaginary worlds, and I remember writing fantasy stories, and believing I had magical powers or was an alien/magical creature.

When I was in school, I remember not connecting very well with my peers. I think people could feel I was different. I was soft spoken, sensitive, and I excelled at school.

I mean so far, *I*could have written this. And I'll take it all into account, but this isn't a system for describing personality, so much as it is one for describing method/motivation.

I didn’t like sports like other boys, and it wasn’t acceptable to hang out with girls, so I just kept to myself. I was already doing good in school, so I just kind of developed that aspect of my identity. I didn’t get along with many other kids and ate lunch with my teachers a lot. I still had friends, but few of them were close.

You're describing constructing your identity in a very deliberate, conscious way, which is more Bird than Badger. It's honestly Bird secondary - like this how you get Actor Bird, deliberately developing one 'version' of yourself because it's useful in certain situation. I'm hearing you enjoyed acting and costumes, and (flash forward to present day) you "pretended" to be more rational than you are. I think you might be an Actor Bird.

It was validating to be so good at academics, and to get teachers’ and parents’ approval. Even if some other kids resented it, I didn’t care because it gave me worth.

This hits every child to some degree, but it hits External primaries very hard. This could describe a young Bird or a young Badger equally well, and now I'm wondering if any of these authority figures especially Birdy or especially Badgery?

Getting good grades, being the perfect child, being “mature for my age” were a big part of my personality.

"Perfect Child" is often an Actor Bird construction. "Mature for your age" is something I usually hear said about young Badgers. Are you maybe a Bird primary, with a very Badger-flavored System? It would fit everything I've read so far.

I also knew deep down I was queer

oh thats brutal

but I eventually became really good at self-editing, and I began to embody a version of me that was acceptable. I was the successful, responsible, smart kid, and I eventually started playing football in high school so that of course meant I was straight. I fully made myself believe the mask I was putting on at that time (badger-like?). In high school, I was tired of being an outsider, so I tried fitting in. I became much more agreeable, sociable, and started becoming more popular. Honestly, it felt good to be appreciated by my peers, and I did play into the character I was projecting. I was still hyper-focused on academics, but for the first time, people actually liked me.

Okay, so I do see why you're saying Badger. Badgers (especially young badgers) can just adopt the group's identity, and lose sight of their own individuality in the process. But I don't think that's what's going on here.

To me, this sounds like it could only be Actor Bird. I know English isn't your first language, so I'm not reading too too much into the word choice... but you do refer to this "Acceptable Self" as a "character," that you "embody." Building this "mask" was a deliberate, conscious process, and it sound like you lived in this persona for a while. Also, not ignoring the fact that... it worked. Wanting to be more popular, and then building a persona that is more popular... that's not something everyone can do.

This actually makes me think of a sorting I wrote for Blackbeard of Our Flag Means Death, and the Actor Bird-specific angst of building a character, spending a little too long in that skin and then feeling that people only like you/you only have worth because of a role you play... and then becoming trapped, because your character is too simple, and it's stifling.

I eventually came to accept my sexuality and had a friendship that made me confront the lack of authenticity of the mask I was putting on. After that, I explored my authentic self while still enjoying my newfound social skills and ability to attract people.

I love that. You built a "popular" persona, and then realized that you din't have to wear it all the time.

I also started getting interested in social justice, philosophy, and politics, which made me question a lot of preconceived notions and ideas I held true about the world.

Oh that's a very Bird primary list of interests right there.

As I became more informed, ethics and morality became a big corner stone of my interactions with the world. I was always interested in finding the “right” way to be, even as a child,

This almost seems like a version of the "book fantasy," which is something I've heard from several Bird primaries at this point: "When I was younger, I wished that there was a magic book that would tell me the 'right' way to act in every situation."

but this meant I could figure out what that meant in more objective terms, and for myself instead of what adults thought. Paradigm shifts were exciting (and still are).

I absolutely love that for you. Bravo.

Family dynamics:

In terms of family dynamics, I always went along to get along. I was checked out emotionally, especially since a lot of family members would say homophobic things, and I never felt completely comfortable with them. I stuck with easy topics and didn’t go into my personal life, and I was content with the image of the golden child they had of me. Even with my parents, whom I love, I never felt I could completely be myself. This led to a lot of secrets and lies to conceal my real self. I was never that rebellious or troublesome to begin with, and I kind of acted like a little adult.

Okay. That makes sense. Sounds like you built a pretty robust Badger primary model that was useful for keeping the peace with your family. (It also sounds just, incredibly necessary.) This explains why a lot of your descriptions of your younger self read as super Badger primary to me: "little adult" "mature for your age" "farming the approval of authority figure."

I also thought a lot of their views were outdated, although I rarely argued with them. My dad had the idea he had to be strict, which was just not the best fit for me. I learned to be extremely secretive, sneaky, and find ways around the rules. I was not very wild to begin with, but I did value my freedom. I just kind of passively agreed, and then did it behind their backs.

Sounds possible you might have a little bit of a snake secondary model?

Although my dad was very sensitive and affectionate, a thing that hurt me a lot was his inability to deal with others’ emotions. I was not allowed to express negative emotions or cry, and he justified this as him being “old school”.

Ah yes. As we know, boys should only have Cool emotions, like Anger and Science. Wondering if your *Dad* might be a Badger primary, with this focus on Tradition and Rules.

This was extremely frustrating to me, as I never understood how tradition could be a valuable reason for anything, or how sticking with old values and refusing to adapt was acceptable.

A little bit of that Bird primary 'make it make sense' thing.

My mom, though more accepting of my sensitivity, was also very critical. She used the status quo to judge what I did, which was also very frustrating. If something I did was weird or impolite, she would use a kind of circular reasoning (this is bad because it’s not socially acceptable, and it’s not socially acceptable because it’s bad), which was also confusing to me.

I love that you can now identify that as classic circular reasoning.

I just wasn’t super interested in developing a strong connection with anyone in my family. I just felt that it was all too arbitrary,

Definitely don't think you're a Loyalist, because I don't think a Loyalist could do a break this clean. There'd be some sense of something... some guilt, some emotion, some residual thing.

and I was more interested in exploring my friendships with people who understood me more deeply. I felt my parents’ (especially dad’s) rules didn’t make any sense, and I wanted my freedom as soon as possible. Since I moved out, our relationship has been a lot better, though I still hide aspects of my life from them.

Very true that just not needing to be around your family 24/27 makes things so much better and easier to deal with.

Problem solving: In terms of problem solving, I like to think I am strategic, and a good contingency planner. I generally understand things well, and how they work together, and am quick to find a solution. When thinking about solving a small problem, I will usually think of the “goal state” first (i.e., what is the ideal I am trying to achieve in this situation). Then I can break down what I need to do. This usually starts with evaluating resources at my disposal (i.e., time, space, material, or mental resources), and what is in the environment. Then, I can come to a solution implicitly by connecting the dots. Finally, I will mentally play out the situation and see if it works, or if there are any roadblocks. This all happens quickly though. Planning is fun, but so is throwing away the plan or finding a clever way to get out of the situation.

What a fantastic breakdown of how to solve a problem. It's also extremely Bird secondary. If it happens fast enough, and you're comfortable enough with it, it looks like it even gets into Rapid-Fire Bird territory (probably why I was getting a little Snake secondary energy up there, Rapid-fire birds can look extremely Snake.)

Am a little bit side-eyeing your decision to call yourself "not very action-oriented" up there. You seem perfectly comfortable with problem-solving to me.

Whenever the unexpected happen, the path becomes really obvious to me. Priorities become salient, and things that are useless fall to the side. It’s more in situations where I’m forced to make a controlled decision that I’m a nervous and indecisive wreck.

Bird primaries HATE making snap decisions.

I can get stressed out if there is missing information, or if the expectations aren’t clear. Travel is especially stressful because of the number of unexpected events that can affect the rest of the trip.

I mean, no one likes missing information or unclear expectations. But it really gets to Birds. (Both primary and secondary honestly. and I'm really thinking that you're a Double Bird.)

With all the information, even if it’s bad news, I can manage and find a solution. But my brain will keep spinning scenarios if I don’t know for sure. Even at school, uncertainty was always worse than bad news.

I hear this. It really goes back to that classic Bird primary fantasy: "but I want to know EVERYTHING"

Not knowing where I stand with someone, with a group, or with a supervisor also makes me nervous. I like knowing what they think of me and what people need from me so I can provide it (or not bother if they dislike me for no reason).

I do think that you have a Badger model, or a Badger flavor to your system. Honestly, you very likely have bOTH. You took in the parts of your parents worldview that made sense to you: it IS useful to know what people want from you, and to know that you aren't making any social faux pas (that way, if someone is acting weird at you, you know it doesn't have to do with you.) But you also have this much more performative Badger model: this is who my parents expect me to be, I don't agree with it, but I can put it on and let it run.

In terms of interpersonal problems, this is where I am most terrible. I am often an absolute doormat and will not vocalize problems and internalize everything. My issue is that I don’t feel confident that I am right and doubt my ability to argue my point and stand up for myself without absolutely ruining the relationship.

Unfortunately, I can't say I'm *surprised,* since you grew up in an environment where arguing was very frowned upon, and it's not like you can win an argument with someone depending on circular arguments and logical fallacies.

You also built a large part of your *identity* around this Perfect Child, Invisible Badger who just does not cause problems. In the language of this system, you built a very intense Badger primary model as a coping mechanism, and now it's run out it's usefulness... but is still hard to punch through, because old models get sticky.

If something bothers me, I will mull over it and eventually let it go because it becomes too late.

Okay, *this* is why you thought there might be some Burning going on. There's this aspect of the way you relate to people that just feels very unsafe, and so you... shut it down.

I think the problems here are uncertainty, and lack of control. When I am in a situation where I know all the elements, have resources, and plenty of time, I am good.

That is absolutely Textbook Double Bird. But (as I'm sure I don't have to tell you)... it's also a fantasy. Very often, you will be lacking in either resources, info, or time. This is why a lot of Double Birds build models, or look like Lion secondaries whenever they don't have time to prep.

If there is an unknown, I can’t do anything.

In the language of this system, that's a Bird primary that's Exploded a little bit, this idea that you can't possibly act if you don't have all the information. It's very Chidi from The Good Place.

In social situations, I can’t control the volatility of relationships or other people, so I just control my reaction.

Pretty much all you can control, so good.

Often, instead of doing something when something is bothering me, I will basically force a paradigm shift to see the situation in a better light, and then move on.

Bird primaries are known for the superpower of just being able to *decide* to like something, or *decide* to be interested in something. That is absolutely what you're doing here. It's *a* way to solve that problem, I guess. But it doesn't seem to make you feel free/powerful.

I kind of have an addiction with the process of solving, and an intolerance for doubt. When I was questioning my career choices, I would reflect on all aspects of my personality, of my goals for the future, I would take endless career quizzes, read the descriptions of jobs over and over, would ask my friends what they thought I should do, etc. I would run in circles, never deciding. I even started deconstructing the philosophy of work, to determine if it was even possible to make a good decision.

Very Bird. Very *exploded* Bird. Of course you went from "what job do I want" to "is the concept of work philosophically moral."

Other questions: My future plans is to live a relatively quiet life out of the public eye, surrounded by books, and having plenty of free time to research or practice my hobbies. I want a stable job, with money so I don’t have to think about those things, and I want to be intellectually stimulated and to be able to add value to the world in the best way I can. I want two dogs, a partner who is fine with my need for space. I also want to live in a walkable city that has an interest in art and culture, and access to nature.

That sounds lovely.

Mostly, I want to be satisfied that I am a good person and be able to do what I want with relative freedom. Now, to be honest, I am very unsatisfied about the real world. It seems so monotonous, and I have always had the secret desire to escape into a fantasy realm. Unfortunately for myself, I don’t believe in the supernatural.

It gets better. There are a lot of cool things out there, and it all gets much less linear once you leave school. I would probably say though - knowing you and your tendencies - maybe a little less focus on being a good person (because that's a can of worms) and maybe a little more on doing things that are a net positive to the world around you.

I feel most powerful when I surprise myself. I once prepared for a grad school interview by reading hundreds of questions and preparing answers for them. When I practiced with a friend, it just came out forced and clunky, and I found myself trying to repeat exactly what I had written. I had accepted I just wasn’t going to get in. When I went to the actual interview though, I just went off script and took risks. I told personal anecdotes while maintaining the image I wanted to project to them, which got me an offer.

You are absolutely a Rapid-Fire bird, which is very cool.

When I speak up in class, when I stand up for myself, when I make impulsive decisions, and especially when I do something scary, I also feel this way.

I like it. Lean into that Lion secondary energy. I know a lot of Birds, especially Double Birds, find it extremely helpful.

I also feel powerful when I feel competent. For instance, when I fix issues at work, when I get good grades, when I manage to problem solve in a clever way.

All of this is very Bird secondary. And honestly, a very effective-sounding Bird secondary.

In high school and during the pandemic, I also was obsessed with personality systems and would read and introspect for hours trying to determine my type. But there was never an answer satisfying enough because the process of introspection was the addictive part of it, and even a sliver of doubt would send me into another rabbit hole. There is a kind of poking at it until it becomes mush effect. I literally made excel sheets with my results on different quizzes, over multiple weeks, to see if there was a pattern. By focusing so much on figuring out who I am, and the intricacies of my own psyche, I just end up losing the big picture and not being able to contextualize the information I’ve gathered. Sometimes it even becomes hard to identify anything since I’m focusing on such a tiny part of myself, and the human mind is so kaleidoscopic and changing, so it stops making sense and just becomes a big blob of behaviors and thoughts. I’ve had a hard time figuring out my MBTI and enneagram because of this as well.

I have been there before, trying to navigate the difference between what is useful introspection and what is navel-gazing indulgence. I accept that people are incredibly complicated, and any categorization system is inherently imperfect. I also accept that words to describe your inner workings are extremely helpful, and honestly, necessary. One thing I like about the system is the cleanness of it. So much of it has to do with cutting through the noise and the *presentation* we are presented, and just going - okay, how do we work, why do we work?

Thank you to Lorangutan for such an excellent submission. If you'd like a Sorting of your very own, commissions are open on my ko-fi. :D

I still remember the first time I saw this movie-- I went in with super low expectations and LOVED it. It's regularly quoted in my household. "Oh, you have allergies, Spencer? I'm missing the top two feet of my body!" So, without further ado...

Spencer is a Badger primary. He was devastated when his childhood best friend, Fridge, backed away from him in search of a cooler crowd. But he doesn't let that stop him from doing Fridge's homework in hopes that he'll win a place in his life again. He's an affable, sweet young man, who notices people who typically fly under the radar-- like Martha. In Jumanji, his primary concern is keeping the group together and alive. He's non-confrontational (until he has to be) and tries to find ways to break bad news gently ("that's not how I would have put it..." he says after Fridge drops the bomb on Alex). He builds people up by talking about their strengths. He has a very clear Bird secondary-- he's the guy who plays video games. "That's literally the main thing that I do." He strategizes rather than charges and sees his physical strength as Dr. Bravestone as a skill, narrating the steps to himself ("uppercut!").

Fridge starts off as a self-centered Snake primary. He traded Spencer in for a cooler crowd to boost his own social status and is primarily concerned with his own football career-- not the impact that cheating will have on his or Spencer's lives. It's not until he gets to Jumanji that he starts to look outside himself. He seems to take special care of Bethany-- urging her to get up when she's fallen down, trusting her when she tells him the cake is bread (oops...), etc. It takes him and Spencer some time to work out their grievances, but once he's in, he's in, and Fridge helps to build up his courage in a moment when he needs in the most. Fridge is definitely a Lion secondary, he's the guy who's always shouting and making his displeasure known, who picks fights with Spencer, but who also charges in to save the day ("Zoology, bit***!")

Bethany begins the film as a myopic Badger primary, whose definition of "people" is pretty limited. She has the best growth arc of the movie, IMO. She cares a lot about what other people think of her, works hard to look perfect and appeal to her boyfriend, and tries to charm her teacher to get out of detention. She shares parts of her life with Martha and is offended when Martha acts "judgy," but accepts her influence and grows. In a conversation with Alex, she says something to the effect of, "sometimes, you get so caught up in your own stuff that you forget other people have stuff too..." She also gives up one of her lives for Alex, so he can get home too! She tells him, "you're our missing piece--" bringing him into the group. In the second movie, she's been off on a humanitarian trip, is so excited to get the group back together, and starts a cheerleader-style chant before wading into battle. The flirting lessons for Martha?? Badger, badger, badger. Her strength is in connecting with and encouraging others-- a Badger secondary.

Martha is kind of hard to read, but I see her as a Bird primary. She's a little black-and-white in how she views the world-- "gym class is not going to get me into Princeton!"-- and has ambitious goals that are largely focused on external things. She sees Bethany as fitting into the "hot, popular girl" mold and it takes her some time to see past that to the real person. She, like Spencer, is a Bird secondary. She's very systematic in how she approaches things, takes the skills that her character (Ruby Roundhouse) has very literally, and applies what she's learned to other people and situations ("Alex, if I can fight those guys, you can fly that helicopter!").

Bonus! Alex is a Snake primary, Bird secondary. He thinks a lot about his parents and says that he's a drummer, "just like my dad." Though he likes the rest of the group, he has a special bond with Bethany. He offers his life for hers, and when that doesn't work, he charges at the big bad guy to rescue her. When he sees them all again after getting out of Jumanji, Bethany is the first one he recognizes (he still calls Martha "Ruby Roundhouse"-- did he forget her name, or was he teasing? IDK). He names a daughter after Bethany, the girl who saved his life. His Bird secondary has burned after being trapped in the game for so long, he doesn't trust himself and his skills anymore and has been living in limbo.

TL;DR:

Spencer: Badger Primary, Bird Secondary

Fridge: Snake Primary, Lion Secondary

Bethany: Badger Primary, Badger Secondary

Martha: Bird Primary, Bird Secondary

Don't know what he did to piss her off, but he got the double bird from her. When you gonna learn to be a gentleman to her Jax -u-

Hello, Anon:

Instagram: dannyminnick

Yes, indeed.

Right on time. 🖕⏰🖕

Note that Wisteria didn’t magically turn into a double bird overnight, she just sent this my way.

To whoever you are anon,

I tend to notice that people that rely heavily on plans, but especially birds (usually double birds are the worst offenders but not always) feel the need to check off anything that’s possible. If plan A doesn’t work, then it’s onto plan B, and so on. But surprises ruin plans, don’t they? You can’t plan to be scared, or plan to be startled by something. I’d argue birds are also way more in their head than other sortings, so physical things can already cause some accidental shock.

I do relate in some context as a bird primary myself, albeit not to the same extent. But birds are planners, but there is no plan for human shit like pranks or just noises. So yes, it is a bird thing, and you’re not alone.

Do any other birds, especially double birds and/or bird secondaries relate to this? I’m curious now!

Using the @sortinghatchats system best explained by @wisteria-lodge. Check them out for more info.

As per usual, trying to get a show out of my head involves a sorting post. When heroes fly is a 9-episodes long Israeli tv show about four former army friends coming together after a fallout to save a common disappeared friend. 

Double lion, double bird and double badger. If the snake lion was a double snake, the show would have all sortings represented as pairs.

Aviv, the designed MC, gives me a strong lion primary vibe. He is the guy who is unstoppable on a mission, but who is completely lost without one. He burns hard after the death of his commander he had to leave behind to save the rest of his squad and never stopped hating himself for it. It’s like he failed to live up to his ideals in his own eyes and the resulting trauma made him even more angry with himself as a failure and he chased everyone, including his big love Yeali, away from his own suffering.