Don’t talk to me or my adopted experiment or my adopted experiment’s adopted experiment ever again
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Don’t talk to me or my adopted experiment or my adopted experiment’s adopted experiment ever again

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People always make Zagreus into Hades’ son bc they imagine that Zeus is acting as an extension of Hades in that dynamic. But have we considered that Zeus was the operative parent in that story, and Persephone just served the role of “wife” ?
Hear me out:
Statius’ Thebaid:
Himself [Hades] I behold, all pale upon the throne, with Stygian Eumenides ministering to his fell deeds about him, and the remorseless chambers and gloomy couch of Stygian Juno.
Ovid’s Metamorphoses:
She showed him in the glade of Juno Averna a gleaming golden bough and bade him break it from the trunk. Aeneas did her bidding and saw the riches of Orcus' frightful realm…
And—
SCREW WHAT I WAS ALMOST SAYING BEFORE ABOUT HERA BEING A MOTHER OF ZAGREUS
HERA IS DAEIRA
HERA
IN ELEUSINIAN MYSTERIES
DOING STUFF TO SUPPORT HER SISTER AND HER NIECE
AND SHE WAS POSSIBLY PERSEPHONE’S NURSE
Okay okay okay hear me out
Daeira and Aax as Isha and Jinx
They got the lil braids and the hair and I sob
And also Wolf as Sevika or something idk
𓈒 🪴 Lady , Daeira 𖦹
♰ ◞ Overview
𓏏 Daeira was surely connected with the rites of the Eleusinian Mysteries. Her name means "Knowing One" or "Teacher" from the Greek verb daô which appears to connect her with the instruction of initiates in the secret knowledge of the Mysteries. The name Daeira was also an Eleusinian title of the goddess Persephone. Daeira may also have been identified with the Eleusinian Hekate who, according to some, was a consort of Hermes Khthonios (the Guide of the Dead).
︵。 Hellenic ♡ God of
༚ 𓏵 Fertility, water / wells ..
𓈒 🏛️ portrayed , art 𖦹
♰ ◞ often shown as a nymphe or goddess connected to the sacred well at Eleusis. Due to the secrecy of the Mysteries, there are no standardized artistic portrayals like those for more mainstream deities
𓏏 Worship / Devotional acts
︵。 water ♡ She received cult in some Attic *demes, apparently had a shrine at *Eleusis, but was not worshipped in the *mysteries, spirit worship, Persephone worship, pomegranates
༚ 𓏵 Sources + Notes ..
Theoi.com, myeleusis.com, oxfordre.com, researchgate.net/publication/338291443_Daeira_the_lady_of_the_waters, academia.edu/39617311/Δάειρα_the_lady_of_the_waters
A particularly intriguing testimony comes from Phanodemos of Athens (fr. 15 Jacoby = 279 Harding) according to whom the priestess of Demeter was required to be absent at sacrifices to Daira and to abstain from her rites6. Based on this animosity, Phanodemos theorizes that Daeira must be equated with Aphrodite, while Phot. δ 5 preserves another opinion according to which Daeira is supposed to be identical with Hera. Daeira appears to have had her own priests: according to Pollux 1.35, among Eleusinian priests and priestesses there was a cult functionary with the title δαειρίτης. In general, Daeira’s semi-syncretism with Persephone may be due to a variety of reasons: for instance, the location of the cult may have played a role; alternatively, one may hypothesize that her identification with the cult of Demeter and Persephone was caused by the similarity between Δάειρα and δαίς ‘torch’ (cf. Δαῖρα παρὰ τὴν δᾷδα advocated by John Tzetzes in his comment on Lyc. Alex. 710, cf. Et. Magn. 244.34; it is also possible, however, that we find here a secondary inference from the cult in which Daeira had become conflated with Demeter). Be that as it may, linguistic considerations speak strongly against seeing in Δάειρα «another feminine agent of δαίω» (so Robertson 2010: 120): -ηρ (< *-er-, fem. *-er-ia) is not a known agent noun suffix in Greek.
My Speculation/Theories about Furina
1 Origin and first Identity; 2 connection to Erinnyes; 3 her powers and memories
#1 Furina's origin and first Identity
Furina could be the first oceanid mentioned in the „Ancient Netural History Experts” found in the „Institute of Netural Philosophy”. There really isn’t much that indicates this to be true (as far as I know), apart from Aurelia from Furina’s SQ. Aurelie while doesn’t appear in the story quest itself (becaues she died before the events of the Fontaine chapter) she still serves as a parallel to Furina, and helps the player somewhat understand why she made that sacrifice for the people of Fontaine.
Even in her final moments Aurelie was worried about the other members of the theatrical group, placing their well-being before her own, and what lines she wrote in the Little Oceanid in her final notes tells us she saw the other members of the group as her little siblings.
While that view for the ones Aurelie cared about doesn’t match with the lore of the first oceanid, because Aurelie saw the others as her little siblings while the first oceanid is said to be the predecessor of all oceanids, Aurelie’s parallel to Furina wasn’t meant to be a 1 to 1 paralell. (It is also possible that if Furina isn’t the first oceanid, that as one of the first oceanid-humans she indeed saw the people of fontaine as her little siblings.)
If Furina is the fisrt oceanif, that might be one of the reasons why Egeria chose her as her succesor.
[When describing the birth/creation of the first oceanid this line „The lizard's bones dissolved into mud, from which swans emerged” is mentioned, which could mean that the first oceanid was born from the remains of the previous Hydro Sovereign.]
#2 Furina's connection to Erinnyes
The first connection of Furina to Erinnyes is Furina’s signature weapon „Splendor of Tranquil Waters” that is implied to be Erinnyes’ holy sword „Hauteclaire”, the main reason that in the weapon’s non-lore describtion it is said that it used to once symbolized the highest authority over the seas. For those interseted, here are all describtions given about „Hauteclaire”: It has a golden hilt inlaid with jewels; it is reffered to as „aqua-shaded sword”; and a beam of watery light shone from it. And here are both appearances of „Splendor of Tranquil Waters”:
A weaker connection (if it even could called that) that the „Opera Epiclese” is located on Erinnyes (the island named after the Holy King of Aremorica).
In the Web-Event „Fragrant Fantasy” the perfume Furina seems to like the most is called „Knight’s Farewell Gift”.
One of Furina’s ascension materials, the „Lakelight Lily’s” describtion it is said that Egeria had given one of these flowers to the last lochknight, who is speculated to be Erinnyes.
Now that the ‚Obvious’ connections has been listed, lets get into speculation.
What I’m proposing here is that is the one who gave „Hauteclaire” to Erinnyes, and that she has absorbed the lochknight, or to be more specific Erinnyes’ true name was Furina and Daeira absorbed her and taken up her name.
Lets see what we know about Daeira:
She was the one who gave „Hauteclaire” to Erinnyes, and she was also was the one who originaly wielded it. She is reffered to as both „Maiden in the Lake” and spirit, and as a spirit she was said to be by Erinnyes’ side the whole time guiding her, and because Daeira is the one who gave Erinnyes her sword the „Mother of Many Springs” mentioned by the remurians is also probably her. Using „Hauteclaire she conquered Peiregord (possibly the old name of Erinnyes island), and defeat Aisias (we don’t know exactly who they were). [Basically just like Erinnyes is kind of a cross betweer „King Arthur and Joan of Arc”, Daeira seems to be a cross between „The Lady of the Lake and Merlin”.] The „Pure Grail” was mentioned to Erinnyes by an oceanid messenger, because the history of fontaine is often coveres up by legends and stories (even in item lores), it is possible that the one who mentioned the „Pure Grail” to Erinnyes was actually Daeira.
Now lets see what we know about Erinnyes’ story after the fall of Remuria :
After Egeria told Erinnyes what she had once told Remus, Erynnies disapeared never to be seen again with the spirit that had been by her side. (I used the second describtion of Furina’s signature, because it seems to be the one considered cannon.) We are told that she trew her swod into the lake, because she felt underserved for it, and that before her self-exile she even submitted her own name to Egeria. Legends say that she went into selfinflicted exile, and train relentlesly to attone for her sins, but it wasn’t comfirmed.
Interestin info regarding Erinnyes’ name:
In the „Faded Castle” we can find the „Investigation of the Northern Barbarians”, which mentions that Erinnyes wasn’t her name but her title which is actually Errighenth (which means female hig-ruler).
So basically when Erinnyes trew away her sword she had also given up her name, then disapeared alongside Daeira never to be seen again. So after absorbing Erinnyes, Daeira could had taken up her name for herself, while making the world remember the King of Aremorica as Erinnyes.
There are already two instances in Fontain’s story where someone ate/absorbed another. The first one was when Lyris absorbed Mary-Ann Guillotin, this by itself is pretty weak support for this theory so I only mention this as 1 more exaple. The second one was Phobos devoured Boethius thus turning him into its puppet/vessel. The latest instance of one devouring the other is Rhinedottir eating Naberius’ (Shade of Life’s) heart thus merging with her, in this case the devoured lost all agency.
When Furina uses her elemental skill in her pneuma mode, she summons the „Singer of Many Waters”, an oceanid shaped hydro construct wearing a crown. If Daeira/Furina did really absorb Erinnyes, that Furina’s pneuma summon is what remains of her, and even what remains of her is now has traces of Furina herself. Erinnyes was once a songtress/singer before she became a knight and later a king, and she said to had an obsession with Egeria, and one of Egeria’s titles is „Mistress of Many Waters”. (Furthermore I think it would be a nice touch if the one slew countless people atones for her sins by healing other.)
Furthermore the one absorbing the other also might face changes. In the describtion of the Romaritime Flower it is mentioned that there have been a Hydro Spirit (possibly an oceanid) who was in love with Egeria, and so that could be Daeira affected by Erinnyes’ being.
The aspect of Furina merging together with others could be further supported with one of her ascension materials, but before that lets adress what the other ones mean.
First the „Varunada Lazurite Gemstone” is basically descibes Furina’s/Focalor’s ideals and thoughts. Second, „Lakelight Lilies” are basically made out of water and Furina used to be a creature of water, furthermore it is said to be the flower that Egeria had gifted to Erinnyes as a farewell gift. Third, „Whopperflower Nectar” itself doesn’t hold a meaning here, raether its source the whopperflower itself, whopperflowers are known to pretend to be flowers to lure their victims and Furina pretended to be the archon of Fontaine (even tho unbeknowns to her, she was the body and soul of the archon).
The last item „Water That Failed To Transcend” is wierdly an outlier in this situation with not carrying any meaning, but if Furina did indeed absorb Erinnyes than this item could represent that, furthermore it could mean that Furina had absorbed other people as well. [In the descibtion of „Pure Water” says that its creator disapeared with no records mentioning what actually happened to him, but there’s a tale that says that the creator had drowned in his own creation. This potioneer could had also been absorbed by Furina.]
If Furina is Daeira, then her kinda being a cross between Merlin and „The Lady of the Lake”, and this would reenforce Focalor’s claim of being a genius, and her being a genius is ‚said’ to be one of the reasons why Egeria chose her. And if the part about Daeira absorbing Erinnyes is also true, then this could add yet another reason why Egeria chose Furina as her succesor, because Egeria is said to had some feelings for Erinnyes herself.
#3 Furina's powers and memories
It is possible that pre-split Focalors (as a person, not power-vise) is still present. Afterall Focalors’ disembodied divinity literally said that Focalors had seperated her divnity from her BODY and SPIRIT.
First the memories. In Furina’s memory about her „awakening” she states that she does already have memories but most of them are fuzzy, and somehow conveniently remembers everything Focalors wants her to know crystal clearly. I don’t know how others interpret it, but for me it looks like that most of her memories had been sealed away, and judging by the circumstances it was most likely selfinflicted, and the fact that her memories were sealed rather ereased could indicate that she would want her memories to return at one point.
After the events of Furina’s story quest she turns from an actress to a director, which could symbolize her now working in the shadows, out of the sight of outsiders. During ourconversation with her in the 5.6 event, Whirling Waltz, when she says that she would support us from behind the scene, and during this scene interestingly enough with the camera angle it looks like she is holding Celestia.
While it is possible that Focalors had sealed away her own (non-divine) powers as well, because noone had actually sensed it, it is more likely that she placed it into the Oratrice alongside with her divinity, and after the death sentence was carried out those powers returned but were sealed away (or maybe Furina is just unaware of them). When Neuvillette regained his authority, it was shown with bubbles flying torwards him, and those same bubbles had also flew torwards Furina as well. And while in the cutscene we’re shown Focalors thanking Furina for all she had done, Furina herself didn’t seemed to actually get that finaly massage. (Furthermore it would be a bit wierd that the bubbles that are representing power being regained for Neuvillette, would just be a unsuccesfully sent massage for Furina.)
An additional source of power for Furina is her vision, which itself seems to be a special case currently unique only to her: It is a vision granted by the Dragon Sovereign, and there are some implications that it makes the vision stronger that regular visions; and another thing about this vision is how Furina got it, it was already stated that Neuvillette granted it to her, but in Furina’s vision-lore it is said that the vision itself doesn’t seem to had been given out with the same purpose as other visions, these two things together could imply that Firuna’s vision falls outside of the system. [Venti himself stated that vision-holders are alogines that could accend to godhood, but even at the end of the Natlan patch we were never given an example, so Furina could serve as that very example.]
Furina’s hydro powers have the color palete of primordial sea water, and in her gameplay she has acces to both Arkhe alignents (this being cannon lorwise is unknown, but likely). It coud be because her vision was given by Neuvillette, or it could be her own powers manifesting in a way (and while the latter is less likely, her powers could still somewhat manifest through the power of her vision).
It is important not just to pay close attention to what Focalors says but also to take it with a grain of salt. She was willing to lie, twist and/or hide the truth that she doesn’t want others to know about. Examples:
-She never told Furina the whole plan, just what she wanted Furina to hear, like that the awaited trial was Furina’s, furthermore she never confirmed that Furina would dissolve in the primordial seawater (as far as we know her body does react to it, but it could as well just turn her back into an oceanid).
-Focalors was the one operating the Oratrice, and she declaired Childe guilty despite already being proven innocent. It was most likely done to start the chain of events leading upt to Furina’s trial, and so he would preoccupy the Narwhal until Neuvillette was ready.
-While she told Furina that she would start a „Never-ending performance”, she never specified to Furina how she would be able to live that long; and while she did told Neuvillette that she cursed Furina to never age, that is something she could have made up to mislead him (for reasons unknown), afterall she was in the Oratrice the whole time, so when the possibility of Furina being cursed, she definetaly heard that. The way she explained the curse itself, it seems more like that it wasn’t really a curse raether her connection to Focalors inside the Oratrice. Furthermore the only person that we know for sure to be able to inflict the Curse of Immortality is Ronova, the literal Shade of Death, and I doubt that if Focalors wanted to deceive the heavens she would ask help from the HEAVENS to achieve her plan.
Wheather her immortality stems from divinity or something else is up for debate, because while she was Egeria’s familliar that doesn’t automaticly make her divine, and becoming an archon means that you inherit the elemental authority, not neccesarly divinity. There is a video made by „My Name For Now” that talks about the Demon-God-Names being the gods’ source of divinity, and thanks to Mavuika we know that these names can be passed down to a succesor (and Egeria was implied to be the the God of Justice before Focalors/Furina), so the name Focalors might be her source of divinity but it might not be the only one.
It is possible that Furina has the favor of the Primordial sea. Her passive decreases the cooldown of the Xenochromatic Creature Skills, and in the 4.2 livestream it is said that this is because Furina’s deep knowledge of Fontemer Aberrants but there could be other reasons as well, one such reason is something stated about Xenochromatic Creatures: they’re spirits that bestow bestow blessings upon those accepted by the Fontemer and those who can control said blessings’ power.
I might also post a theory/speculation about the 'Primordial Sea & Arkhium'.

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Δάειρα· τινὲς Στυγὸς ἀδελφήν. ἔνιοι τροφὸν Περσεφόνης. ἄλλοι τὴν αὐτὴν Δήμητρι. τινὲς τὴν αὐτὴν τῇ Ἥρα. καὶ πιθανὸν τὴν Ἥραν δάειραν τοῦ Πλούτωνος λέγεσθαι· δαήρ γάρ ἐστιν ὁ τοῦ ἀνδρὸς ἀδελφός. ᾿Αριστοφάνης δὲ (fr. novum) Σεμέλης φησὶ μητέρα εἶναι. Daeira: Some [say that she is] a sister of Styx. Some [say that she is] a nurse of Persephone. Others [say that she is] the same as Demeter. Some [say that she is] the same as Hera. And it is plausible that Hera is called Pluto's 'daeiran' (sister-in-law). For 'daer' (brother-in-law) is the brother of a husband. Aristophanes says she is Semele's mother. (Photios, Lexicon, δ 5. tr. Photios On Line)
The promised companion to this poll...
Which female Phantom Idol's Persona has your favorite design?
Styx (Yuki)
Terpsichore (Mont)
Prosymna (Moko)
Cleodora (Okyann)
Meng Po (Rin)
Apseudes (BUI)
Nemertes (Puppet)
Daeira (Riddle)
Thalia (Marian)
Ampelos (Vino)
Urania (Phoebe)
Calliope (Chord)
👀 I'm so ashamed I kind of forgot their names.. Dar sth sth and Empi? Emphusa/Emposa..argh I can't remember, so sorry T_T! (the nanny and spy married couple)
Bonus both of them and Makaria, please?
You're looking for Daeira and Empusa, anon. :)
When they first met, Daeira felt pretty sorry for Empusa. It wasn't pity as such, just empathy for a bad situation. She seemed pretty... sensitive, too, so they distinctly remember having the thought that they should be careful with her.
Empusa was like... basically instantly starry-eyed haha. As much as her predicament let her be, and then their kindness to her only made it 'worse.'
Daeira was very surprised to see their employer with a child. At first, they saw Makaria as something of a logistical dilemma, because part of their job is making sure things like new and unconventional residents are accommodated in the Underworld.
Empusa pretty much immediately wanted to help look after Makaria heh. She likes kids a lot, and Makaria's predicament resonated with her really deeply.
Makaria was quite young upon meeting both of them, but took a liking to them basically right off the bat!