#chatty things

Silver lining, right? And the best part - Cas helped! Angel of the Lord Castiel has no time for your exclusive soulmate enclosures. Wanna enrichment? Come and play with everyone.

But seriously, Cas restoring Heaven and reuniting with Dean would be such a beautiful closure to his story arc. We were robbed on so many levels, I can’t even

Um, why do I feel this is a bait for me to bash destiel and possibly also Tony (or Steve)? But, in case if you are asking in a good faith and not trying to bring antis’ rhetoric on my pro shipping blog, here’s my take on it.

I prefer not to use terms like “healthy” or “unhealthy, abusive” relationship when talking about ships that exist thanks to fandom’s transformative efforts, non canon ships like destiel, MCU stony and all others. These pairings are not written as (potential) couples in canon, and all their interactions mainly serve the plot. We could talk about how healthy are relationships between main pairs in Hannibal or Killng Eve, since that is the focus of those shows. But to apply the same standards to destiel or stony seems very unfair. Dean and Cas are not in a relationship, the show works hard to remind us about it all the time. Just because now and then there’s some destiel subtext, doesn’t mean that the show intentionally writes them as a couple with all necessary emotional continuity. I mean, half of the time when Cas is gone, Dean doesn’t even remember that Cas exists. Most of the time when Cas leaves, it happens because Misha has a contract for 12+ episodes per season and TPTB refuses to give Cas more screen time. 

I believe it was not your intent but the “unhealthy ship“ label is usually used by antis to bash the ship they hate while patting themselves on the back for shipping only “morally pure” ships. For me, destiel is as healthy and good as I make them to be, that’s what shipping is. Also, knowing that the show is working so hard to keep Dean and Cas apart in hopes to minimize queer baiting accusations, I ship destiel out of spite now. 

About Tony drawing blood in CW. Listen, have you actually seen Dean and Cas beating the crap out of each other on numerous occasions? If you think that that Tony and Steve’ fight, as painful as it was, was something that could taint the ship for me. I have seen Not Team Cap friendly and Not Team Iron Man friendly tags on ao3, and I get CW movie hurt a lot of shippers, but, after 8 years of watching SPN live I’m just, well, so it goes. Sometimes I feel that after shipping destiel, nothing can surprise me anymore. I also know that despite all the pain and hurt that SPN writers put Dean and Cas through, the destiel fic writers worked hard on bringing them together, again and again. Every time when TPTB tried to erase, diminish destiel, fandom answered with “Not today, Satan!”

Not the Anon but love the discussion re: fanfic. I think some of it stems from how inconsistent the show is? like, the divide in fanfic between stories written by Cas fans vs Dean fans: the show is very much about Dean and his POV and unless you're very interested in Cas's perspective, you don't think about it. Plus the episodes themselves vary wildly depending on who is writing: you can have an episode from someone who thinks Cas is OK one week and the next is written by someone who thinks Cas should've died seasons ago and stayed dead. It's kind of fascinating

2/5 and still derive pleasure and satisfaction from it, it does mean that the overall message we send sometimes feels like “Whatever shit you pull, we’re just going to dress it up as nice as possible and power through.” Which, a necessary part of fandom is every individual getting to enjoy the show the way they want, but that does kind of remove the creators’ incentive to try. For me, I feel like they’ve recently crossed more and more lines and at some point, if they’re not making this show for

3/5 people like me, then people like me don’t need to watch it. These are wonderful, beloved characters for me, but I’m struggling to even identify them anymore, and the surrounding plot has never been a huge draw for me (it rarely feels like it comes together, to me). Anyway, sorry for the rant, but yeah, your tag commentary articulates a lot of my same frustrations and weirdly, it makes me feel less terrible about having to quit and knowing I’m never going to feel like I got an ending? It’s 

4/5 hard to explain. I have a lot of feelings tied up in this show, I guess, and your comments are a great comfort to the turmoil.(As for the fic – I would send you the link, but there isn’t one yet since I’m new to posting fic and I’m still working up to longer fics, which brings me to my next point: I’d be happy to drop it in your submit box, but it’s 130k and if you’re not really feeling Dean/Cas fic right now, I think that’s a lot of effort to go through for a few Gordon scenes you might not

5/5 even like. But that was a very kind offer

Heeeey, thank you for coming back and sorry about my lateness! You have a lot of good points and mostly I feel the same, you know? I do understand the need of current fans to follow only positive blogs even if I call them positivity police. I went through the same stage of my fandom engagement around s9/10 when the show was getting dark and hopeless, and some of my friends said that nothing makes sense story wise. And they were right. But getting a “divorce” from a TV show while you still want to participate in fandom is hard. There are many steps and we all take them at our own pace. My steps so far have included ranting in tags and slowly detaching myself from the story. SPN fandom is one of a kind if only because of its longevity and constant new canon. I don’t think I’ll ever be in another fandom with such high intensity feels spanning for so many years. Tbh, it is exhausting. So, no wonder if we are a bit lost and not sure about closure. Maybe, our closure is to get safely out before we get disappointed completely? If there’s one lesson I’ve learned from SPN, it is to trust my own gut. Be it my interpretation of the show or be it general feeling about the need to let it go. The only reason I didn’t left after 9x03 is that I was heavily involved with destielfanfic and it’d be hard to read and rec fics without following the show. Since then, I’ve watched many destiel fans to leave fandom one by one at different times of the show. Sometimes it was because of real life stuff, most often - because the story, and beloved characters became unrecognizable, and they felt the need to hold on to good memories. 

Lol, exactly! That’s what stories, movies, tv shows are about - to give us whole range of human relationships and emotions to live through without doing it in real life. 

Yep, she did it again. I’m scrolling through The Magicians’s fans tumblrs now, trying to piece together what happened and it is not pretty. I haven’t watched the show at all, so this is just what I got from tumblr  

Jason Ralph, lead character Quentin (mentally ill, depressed, suicidal bisexual character), was talking about leaving the show with the writers and they designed this season. They knew from the start that Quentin is gonna die, yet they also wrote the episode teasing the ship,4x05, Quentin/Eliot and engaging with shippers on SM for a whole year. J.Ralph was forbidden to tell the cast that he’s leaving, the script had dummy scene and all cast thought that Quentin will survive. The funeral /goodbye fire was shot with all actors thinking he will be back. They learned about his departure only this week meaning they never had a chance to tell goodbye to their cast member of 4 years.

Quentin dies in sacrificial suicide to free Eliot from magic whammy; they are not even given reunion scene after whole season being apart or barely interacting. Because, according to the writers, they wanted realism and IRL you sometimes don’t get reunions you deserve. They wanted REALISM, on the show about magic, and dragons, and mirror worlds. 

gay Eliot was magically straight in s4 (ETA - I’m told he wasn’t magically straight but I did see posts that his queerness was ??? not there? tell me!) , bisexual Quentin, while fighting for the love of his life, Eliot, was paired up with a woman. Sera Gamble and Co patted themselves on the back for LGBTQ representation on the show

I have no words to say how f*ucked up this is. I mean, even Joss Whedon recently admitted that he was wrong to kill his rare lesbian character. I thought TV writers are aware of disparity between hetero and same sex relationships? Also, a lot of fans are devastated because with Quentin they lost relatable character. This is not even about the ship so much, as telling that people with suicidal indentations just should do sacrificial suicide and be happy about it. 

Off topic, but this reminds me so much of all post 12x23 discourse - Cas will come back from being dead and his depression will be cured! And when Cas fans balked at such idea, we were painted as uneducated peasants who don’t understand how the story works. I mean, Sera’s legacy lives on in this fandom. Just kill off characters who are sad! I just saw similar comment about grieving Dean in s14 - he should die, and then he will come back with better mental space, just like Cas did. As if Cas came back healed of his depression. *clenches fist*. 

have some sources, obviously spoilers for s4 finale of The Magicians

Interview with Sera Gamble, posted just before The Magicians finale, talks also about her other show YOU, and her years with Supernatural

Interview with Jason Ralph, good overview of how messed up the whole situation was. He’s very diplomatic tho.

fan reaction on twitter - One, Two, Three

Just couple of weeks ago I talked to my friend and we both agreed that we are still so salty about what Sera did with Castiel in 7x01, that we are not gonna watch her shows again. Funny how right we were. 

2/5 he is one of the more interesting/ memorable characters in SPN so I can see why he might be the first villain some people think of, and there’s a sort of caricature-method of writing villains I see in fic which means they become kind of two-dimensional plot devices for convenience. By the same token, though I don’t post fic, I do write it and I have also used him to populate bully groups on a couple of occasions, and given that I have been uncomfortable/ragey, both with this and with 

3/5 SPN’s bullshit vis-a-vis POC/women/queer people/etc in general, maybe I should not have done that. Something for me to think about. So. Yeah. Sorry if I offend at all, or if you just wanted to let out spleen in peace, but thank you for making the post. I saw your tag “(and I’m such a chicken shit)” and I appreciate that you posted anyway. Your tag commentary is also always very gratifying to read and I was relieved in the spring when you made that post clearly identifying the fandom policing

4/5 happening to diminuel as exactly what it was, since I didn’t understand how it could be happening in the first place (A+ on your tags then as well). Which isn’t to say you should post things if you’re uncomfortable, because this place is terrifying, but. I appreciated it now as well as then, so thanks for doing it! Sorry for rambling, I don’t expect you to respond, and again, sorry if I should not have commented. And have a very nice day!

5/5 (P.S. thanks for mentioning Bartholomew! I don’t understand why I don’t see him the most. I know it’s just how they wrote/styled him but whenever I see him in gifs or episodes I suddenly feel like I should watch my drink, even though I’m at home in my pajamas)

First of all, thanks for your message! My inbox is open, so it means I welcome asks and any kind of venting, anons included. When it will get too much I will close the box, that’s all. 

under cut this goes since it is so long