I saw your tags on a Barrisco gifset about how you didn’t like Iris and Cisco being pitted against each other in 4x01 and that being unresolved. I wanted to ask you about 6x08, and whether you thought it was out of character or in character for Cisco to just accept that Barry was taken over by Ramsey as Dark Flash with no coming back and prioritize safeguarding the lab and his friends. I feel like he was operating from a place of grief that Barry’s been taken over, there’s nothing left of him, but at least he’s not dead as he was supposed to die in Crisis. I thought it was an interesting character perspective, and it would explain his debilitating fear about Iris going out to repeatedly try and get through to Dark Flash because then he’ll lose her too. Also maybe there’s a small part of him that refuses to believe Barry can be saved, because if he fights for Barry’s soul, Barry will still die in Crisis. I feel like that episode could have been really good as a tragic parallel to 2x21 when Cisco and Iris get Barry from the Speedforce, but I’m not sure all of Cisco’s complicated feelings were properly explored. So, Iris ended up taking the brunt of his fear, because he didn’t shield her from his fear of losing Barry and of her potentially dying as well if she keeps trying to save Barry, which broke my heart a little because she just seemed so sad and confused when he yelled at her that there’s no point trying to save Barry when they were going to lose him anyway. They have a conversation later, but it wasn’t enough for me. So I’m curious on your thoughts on that episode.
I think 6x08 is interesting as a way to sort of invert where Iris and Cisco were in 4x01, mindset-wise.
In 4x01, Cisco was desperate to save Barry, while Iris refused to take the chance that he could be dead or worse (she doesn’t want to try and fail, because that would be worse than not trying at all), or that saving him could take Wally instead or result in some other disaster. Which, by the way? 100% valid. They’re very mf lucky Wally wasn’t taken in Barry’s place. But I digress.
Meanwhile in 6x08...Iris is the one desperate to save Barry, while Cisco is the one refusing to take the chance (he doesn’t want to try and fail, because that would be worse than not trying at all). And like you said, there's the added element of “if I save him now, he’ll did in Crisis.”
Unfortunately not only does the show not take advantage of these parallels, the fandom rarely seems to recognize them either. Cisco gets so much grace for 6x08 (as he should! Like you said, he’s acting from a place of grief and trying to keep everyone safe)...meanwhile, Iris gets so much hate for 4x01. That’s in large part the rampant Iris hate (and Caitlin favoritism…the way everyone hates on Iris for snapping at Caitlin is really smth. Caitlin’s been off trafficking metas, but okay guys), but...it’s also something else.
See, to answer your question, I don’t disagree, but I don't think it’s really fair to say it’s totally the same as 4x01. Iris and Cisco aren't pitted against each other the same way, because ultimately, the parallel to 2x21 stands as well: Iris tries to save Barry, and it fails, and then she and Cisco have their confrontation, and then they team up and make a plan. 4x01 doesn't allow Iris that, really—Cisco and Iris have their confrontation, then Iris is left out of their attempt at trying, and then she's told after the fact. And then it doesn’t end well because she's dogpiled on by Wally and Caitlin (the latter is especially audacious like...girl please, you've been helping a human trafficker for 6 months, sit down).
6x08 positions Iris and Cisco as way more of a team—Cisco yells at her out of grief and frustration, but ultimately, he says “you went in one direction, while I went in another, instead of figuring out a plan together”—so in that way, I think their conversation resolves their conflict in a way that Iris’s “thanks for believing when I couldn’t” only half-does (esp since Cisco doesn’t express any regret for how callous he was in his anger. Iris was made to admit defeat. Cisco, though? He gets to be right. That’s always been a part of 4x01 I hated—they’re both right, they’re both valid, they both also hurt each other and should apologize for that, but the episode puts the onus and burden on Iris alone to make amends).
Some important 6x08 quotes that show the solidarity that 4x01 lacked: “Barry chose you for a reason. Don't doubt yourself, Cisco.” “Iris...what if that was Barry? What if you were right and he's still alive inside Dark Flash?”). Ultimately, they defeat Ramsey together. They solve the problem together. Both of their sides are shown to be valid (in 4x01, they didn’t, and Iris was left holding the bag and apologizing (not with the words “I’m sorry”, but by recognizing that he did what was needed in the situation), while Cisco didn’t express any remorse for what he said to her). I think that gives 6x08 a major advantage and puts it way more in my good books.
That being said, the show not really letting Iris and Cisco support each other through Barry's near-death experiences. It happened in s4, and it’s happening again here in a sense. Iris and Cisco should’ve supported each other through Barry going into the Speed Force (we deserved co-leaders Irisco, neither of them were in a position to do it alone, I will die on that hill), and they should’ve supported each other through Barry’s impending Crisis death. This conversation resolves things in a way, and Iris and Cisco are framed way more as a team which is great...but they don’t really ever talk about their struggles with Barry being fated to die soon. They should’ve been supporting each other, venting to each other (especially about Barry’s self-sacrificial nature—we see how much it frustrates Iris and Cisco, so let them vent about it!). Maybe they try to brainstorm ways to get Barry out of it, because for once, they’re on the same page about that.
Just...*sigh* in short, I think 6x08 does a much better job resolving an Irisco conflict and showing both of their perspectives as valid, but there’s still room for improvement in that there’s still the problem of these two not being allowed to support each other. Made worse by the fact that 6x08 is one of the few episodes that shows them even being friends! Missed opportunities all around, alas.
