Rocky chose a hand to match Grace's scar!

It's also ridiculous to blame her for their actions as grown adults, especially when the vast majority of the time, they don't listen to her. You can blame some things on her for sure. she was, objectively not a good mother, even if there are valid reasons for why she wasn't, especially at the beginning (the same way we should not be blaming alicent for these grown mens decisions, we can't blame everything bad alicent does on the people who harmed her when she was younger too. When she becomes an adult, and can make her own decisions, the responsibility of her actions rests with her) but she didn't raise them like cersei does joffery. She doesn't encourage their violent or sexually abusive behaviors and say they can have and do whatever they want because they're her sons. And even then, aegon and aemond are grown men, and they are choosing to behave that way, which means they are responsible for their actions. Not alicent.

The other argument is that she created this mess and sent them to war so she has no right to suddenly change her mind. which is absurd because 1) she's literally the only one on team green who is actively against a war and tries to make peace, multiple times, while still keeping aegon on the throne initially. It's aemond and daemon who actually kickstart the war. Mainly daemon when he gets jahaerys killed. 2) people are allowed to grow and if you realize you made a mistake that is hurting people, you can and should do your best to stop and fix it. That doesn't make you a hypocrite, it means you're repenting and trying to make things right.

"she's just trying to save herself" sure that might be a part of it, but she's also trying to save her daughter and granddaughter, arguably the most innocent in the entire show.

There are so many other valid things to criticize alicent for, but y'all choose this, the fact that she sold out her sexually abusive and violent sons, in an effort to save her daughter and granddaughter.

Gonna try my best to expand on why people are hella irritated with her. It's largely due to how the show is framing a lot of her actions and plot points in general. Some choices may seem fine when isolated, but when put together and looking at it as a whole, they don't line up. Especially with all the info the people behind the show give in interviews. It’s largely meta I think :P

So things like this:

"Alicent sold out her sons, she's such a bad mother" are we forgetting that aegon is a literal rapist? Are we forgetting that aemond burned his own brother? And likely was going to kill him?

Are just not taken seriously by certain viewers because they know many writing choices were made to further destabilize TG to a cartoonish degree for many dumb reasons (one reason is that the writers are going for the whole good vs bad thing, TB good, TG bad, all that).

A big thing is that the overblown inner conflict in the Greens is just highly illogical at this point. Conflict can occur yeah, but to pull off a huge thing like a coup that can possibly turn into a war, everyone who is a part of it needs to be able to work with one another to a degree (which was present in F&B). Otherwise, getting anything done would be impossible, they wouldn’t have even started to begin with or would’ve struggled to

Instead of having competent characters and moves, by the end of it all, show watchers will be wondering how the hell does TB (or specifically Nyra) loses to them when they were nerfed this hard. Both sides look incompetent and silly as hell.

It's like they had a list of things to check off on.

Introducing the adult version of the contending claimant?

"Oh, he'll be naked first thing (ass showing and everything, which I laugh at sometimes) and have an OC created for the sole reason of being raped by him. No, it's not in the book, but we needed a cheap way to directly state to the viewers that he's a horrendous person and frame it in such a blaringly obvious way that there's no room for misinterpretation, unlike the way we've done it with other characters. Oh, and ultimately, the entire scene will be centered on Alicent, mainly, to further focus her character above all"

Need to have sibling interactions that are purely nothing but combative and negative to showcase how oh-so-divided the family is?

"Why don't we make up a plotline of Aegon taking Aemond to a brothel when he was young (all while implying someone took him there when he was young, but we're not gonna get into that). Have Aegon find Aemond in a brothel, and instead of leaning towards the obvious, recent reason to go at Aemond, like maybe calling out how his actions led to the death of his son, he just goes for embarrassing him and mocking him sexually in a juvenile way"

Don't want to actually blatantly show the Greens' proficient military moves at this time?

"Hey, let's have Aemond stupidly take down a dragonrider on his side, even tho they don't have many to begin with, for the sake of... uh drama? Yeah, his own survival as well as his family's is tied to how many people can fight on dragonback since they started out outnumbered, but he's just going to go for it anyway. The whole event was more vague in the book? Who cares?"

Need to depict the Greens not being able to manage things for whatever reason?

"Let's create this entire starvation situation in Kingslanding, even though it's mostly the navy being blockaded, the roads are still open, and they would still have an ample amount of food coming in. This never occurred under TG's reign in the book? Who cares, have the commoners throw a riot and throw (funnily enough) food at the Queen and Queen Dowager. Alicent specifically will have a fish thrown at her face"

Have a goal to further water down the politics from one side to push something that doesn't even make sense?

"Let's add in a scene of Alicent being bewildered that the council didn't appoint her as regent. Even though it makes no political sense, seeing how Aemond is alive, he's a fighter, and she has given no actual good ideas that'd contribute to the war effort besides writing a few letters. We're gonna frame this as a "Alicent is humiliated and further stamped down by the patriarchy and getting a taste of her own medicine type of thing"”

I remember people starting to see the pattern before the Season was even done airing. The writers were writing these dumb plot points just so they could justify Alicent abandoning the cause she pushed for. (her family's survival)

A few extra points:

They completely took her out of B&C. Otherwise, people would seriously question how, after witnessing her grandson getting beheaded, her daughter and granddaughter traumatized, why the hell would she concede her family's fates to the side responsible for it. Main show runner literally said book B&C was propaganda by Alicent, the most detailed event in the book, not contradicted by any source whatsoever, was all made up apperently bc Alicent was bored I guess 💀

Dragging out and dramatizing the "rivalry" between Aegon and Aemond to an absurd degree. Making Aemond act cartoonishly evil (which is saying something), getting physical with Helaena, faux threatening her, and kissing his mother (ugh). A lot of it is for shock value, simply something for ppl to react to.

The parts regarding Aegon and Aemond exist just so the audience can point and say, "They deserve it anyway". Which many ppl, (including you, I assume) wholeheartedly fell in line with. Which is exactly what they wanted.

It's also ridiculous to blame her for their actions as grown adults, especially when the vast majority of the time, they don't listen to her.

Oh, it def is, I think what people mean about sticking by them is mainly related to the whole succession thing. If this was modern life where they’re normal ppl and they did the things they did, sure, she can freely go no contact and all that. The stakes in their universe aren’t that simple though.

Yes, she didn't create the mess, it would've existed if she had died a few years into the dance because the system at large is responsible for it.

It’s just that no matter which way you split it, repeatedly telling your young children all their lives that there's a chance they'll die violently in the near future -due to family members no less- will affect them mentally in concerning ways. Even Condal addressed this, which is saying something. It was true but would still have an impact on their brains.

Any parent raising their kids with this mindset (one of them essentially becoming an attack dog by the time he's older) for 2 decades, then abandoning the big plan at the last second, would not be looked upon positively at all. “Actually jk I’m gonna dip” is stance most ppl would balk at 😭

All of this ties into how this:

but she's also trying to save her daughter and granddaughter, arguably the most innocent in the entire show

is a completely moot point. It makes no sense. Saving her does not mean making her and her daughter hostage to the side responsible for her son's brutal death and the traumatization of her daughter (or no trauma, Jaehaera's screentime is non-existent).

Since the show was genius enough to forget Maelor's existence, Jaehaera is now Aegon's one and only heir. Both her and Helaena are in danger by default, book!Ali knew this, which is why she didn't take any chances.

All of the kids are connected; there’s no concrete eeiny meeiny miney moe clean scenario besides all of them being dead. For example Otto, Alicent or whoever else, if given a choice, would've probably put up Daeron to be King but the system couldn’t allow it since he's the youngest son.

So they have to work with Aegon, which is why they convince him (book) and drag him (show, if they still have politics that makes sense) to step up. The entire event is bigger than just him; the lives of family members, supporters, and allies are on the line. His feelings on it simply cannot be prioritized; when push comes to shove, it's life or death. Even if book!Ali for some reason didn't love her older sons, she would still have the common sense to know that the survival of everyone inlcuding herself, largely hinges on being on the same page with them.

There are two choices, lay down like a lamb to slaughter, or try to fight and survive. They chose fight.

daeron. From what I remember, he's a good kid. Why not be angry about her selling him out? even if it's not explicitly said, she has to know daeron will be included

He very much was! A lot actually lol, by ppl who had an inkling of in-universe politics since the show overlooked it a lot. The writers didn't think of the bigger implications, so as a result, Alicent didn't. Otherwise, she would've mentioned him in the original "deal". The writers forgot about him being connected (they didn't even originally intend on having him in the show). I'm sure they're going to make moves in S3 to make it seem as if they didn't.

No but seriously watch this space 😂

There's a 50/50 chance they come up with some weird writing choices to retroactively justify her giving his life up as well. Maybe the "oh she doesn't actually know him so well so it doesn't matter" (even tho in the book he was only sent away when he was 12) or pull the "let's have him do something egregiously heinous" to lay it on heavy. "Look at how terrible all her sons are!!"

I'm not a betting woman but I wouldn't be surprised 🤣

people are allowed to grow and if you realize you made a mistake that is hurting people you can and should do your best to stop and fix it

This is very true indeed. The thing here is the show framing logically fighting for survival as a "mistake".

If she had just walked away and left them, some ppl could accept that. But she is not simply changing her mind; she is giving up all of their lives on a platter. People, in turn, state that she has no right to do this, and I'd have to agree with them.

So people can't buy the entire thing as a result. A lot of shit just falls apart when looking at it closely, on top of hearing bits of interviews. They keep framing Alicent’s recent actions as her redemption or moving towards the “right direction”. They’re basing the standard of morality on whether or not it aligns with TB. It’s…well more than just lazy imo. Some viewers in turn are frustrated with her as a result 😬

For me ik my girl is a victim to poor writing, so all I can do is sit while she takes these lashes 🥲

The Furious (Trailer / 2026)

Xie Miao, Joe Taslim, Yayan Ruhian, Brian Le, Joey Iwanaga

Make it make sense, bc I genuinely can't, if the episode was about Criston, Gwayne hell even Helaena I would understand being a bit upset or confused as to why those characters are getting an episode just about them but this is the protagonist that we are talking about here, I don't give a fuck that Ryan wants to claim that there's 3 protagonists (Rhaenyra, Alicent and Daemon) there isn't, there's one, two at best and it's not one of those people, but Rhaenyra is still THE protagonist, this whole story is about her, so why tf would you even be upset or consider the episode being about anyone else especially when this is at a time where Rhaenyra is about to take over king's landing, it's a huge thing, so focusing on anyone else wouldn't make sense. And the whole "there's more interesting characters" no there really isn't, let me guess you find Aemond and Daemon soooo interesting and think they would make a great focus of an episode....we would get more of the same thing from them, bc the story is not focused on them the plot is not moving primarily with them, not only is it bullshit to say that there's more interesting characters but to then want anyone else as the focus of the episode during a time like this, please bffr.

And to choose Daeron of all of them, a character we don't really know yet...this is why I can't take this fandom seriously and I'm always annoyed with the complaining bc which one is actually reasonable and which one is from people being dumb and nitpicking.

Let’s start with, if the episode will be more or less the same as previous court scenes (“what would you have me do” type things or dumbly slapping political allies) then what’s the point? How would it even be a conceptual episode, Aegon having a hearing in S2 and his other council scenes certainly aren’t conceptual at all. If they switch it up someway I wonder even how, it sounds like a bottle episode more than a conceptual one.

Also you brought up Daeron but him not having been shown at all would be the exact reason for the ep to be centered on him. The genius showrunners didn’t even intend on including him in the series to begin with (There’s a reason why GRRM mentioned Daeron in one of his blog posts). This would be a way to rectify their mistake (and probably fail at it but it’d be an attempt) and give a pov of a character that was highly relevant on the battle field.

Centering an episode like this on a character that already has a high amount of screen time, when there’s several other characters who barely have any (especially if not used effectively), is the definition of uninspiring.

People have pointed out before that the show not leaning more towards being treated as an ensemble cast hurts the series overall. The Dance of the Dragons is about a familial civil war, the flaws of their regency, family relationships, and the toll it took on the realm as a whole (otherwise F&B wouldn’t have details on people other than the royals). It was never solely about one person, the show might’ve ignored some in world politics and warped the story in general to make it seem so to some people, but that’s where they got it wrong.

It doesn’t matter if you have 1 or 2 good characters in a large cast if the rest are poorly developed, underwritten, or just plain boring. It drags down the quality of the show with it (also doesn’t help that a lot happens in the book when his proclaimed protagonists aren’t involved. Which leads to bullshit being written for them that doesn’t make sense). As different as the story is, I cannot imagine GOT pulling this (because really, they could’ve to a degree), it was high quality in the beginning for the main fact that the ensemble as a whole shined together.

Ryan’s genius self even baited people with this, before season two aired he kept talking about how it would be “all about the kids”.. There is a reason why people were anticipating that, it would mean expansion on characters with little writing from S1. But it turned out to be a complete lie 😭

No but seriously, look up stats on screen time each of the characters get in HOTD. The gaps are egregious, and it maybe wouldn’t be so bad if the writing quality was top notch or if they used screen time effectively, but they didn’t. It’s not solely about who’s interesting, but what they can add to the world of the show in general. Something new or fresh would be less repetitive, even the addition of more check ins on minor characters could help a lot if done correctly. A more balanced narrative would be nothing else but a plus in this scenario.

It also doesn’t help that they have 16 episodes to wrap this entire story up, breaking the mould at least would be something that will stand out in the long run

But yeah that’s all I got, Quality over quantity yadda yadda :P

I'm about to look like this guy