okay i don't want to link back to the guy bc I'm worried about inadvertently sending hate his way when I think he means well and is just trying to share some honest thoughts (whatever I may think of them LMAO) BUT I want to share what he's said bc I feel like the cognitive dissonance is just wild and I want to unpack it.
so like he starts off the video pointing out a handful of lines where he agrees it is blatantly apparent that Jaime and Brienne are sexually attracted to one another. but then we get this:
But will they get together intimately in the books? No, I don’t think they will. See, and this is just my opinion, I could be totally wrong, but I think it’s because they don’t need to. I don’t think it would do anything for their characters, I don’t think it’s that type of story, I don’t think it’s that type of relationship. And the best way I can describe it, this may not make sense to other people but it makes sense in my mind, is that this relationship, which people have often said is the juxtaposition of the Beauty and the Beast story. You know, beauty, beast, whatever. And that story - and that type of story - is more about love rather than intimacy. And I know those things can go hand in hand, but due to the nature of the world, and due to the nature of the characters, I can’t see them having a serious - even a one-night-stand type of thing - successful intimate scenario. I think Jaime would feel too vulnerable, similar to Brienne. But what I can see is an attempt… maybe drunk, maybe they just go like ‘screw it, let’s go for it’, and it’s very awkward, and they’re like ‘no, this isn’t right’ type of thing. I know I may not have explained it right there, but that’s just my opinion.
I find this slightly fascinating because I think he's actually verbalising what I've seen many other readers do when they look at the facts, and realise yes, this is a romance, and yes, there are already strong sexual undertones - but they cannot reconcile what is objectively on the page with how they personally feel about the pairing, and try to kind of intellectualise why courtship and intimacy don't really apply to Jaime and Brienne the same way they might any other romance.
I don’t think it would do anything for their characters
...... why??? why wouldn't sex do anything for two characters who are sexually attracted to one another, and have a drawn out arc getting closer to one another?? one has only had secretive sex with one person he's now effectively divorced, the other has never had sex and has never imagined that she would get to enjoy sex?? so like..... what do you mean it would do 'nothing' for them, it would HAVE to do something
I don’t think it’s that type of story
there is sex all over the place in ASOIAF. Just a few POVs who have sex in their chapters include: Tyrion, Jon, Daenerys, Catelyn, Asha, Cersei, literally Jaime - so why would there not be room for Jaime and Brienne specifically to have sex?? it is VERY much that type of story.
I don’t think it’s that type of relationship
you said yourself they are sexually attracted to one another and seem to agree it's romantic. so... why wouldn't it become that type of relationship?
people have often said is the juxtaposition of the Beauty and the Beast story. You know, beauty, beast, whatever. And that story - and that type of story - is more about love rather than intimacy
..... i mean it's a children's fairytale so they do tend to leave the fucking out but here's a thought: George doesn't
and I know those things can go hand in hand, but due to the nature of the world, and due to the nature of the characters
due to the nature of.... their world?? where people fuck all the time??? or our world?? where people fuck all the time?? also the nature of their characters, they both have sexualities and desire each other, YOU HAVE TO EXPLAIN WHAT YOU MEAN
I can’t see them having a serious - even a one-night-stand type of thing - successful intimate scenario. I think Jaime would feel too vulnerable, similar to Brienne. But what I can see is an attempt… maybe drunk, maybe they just go like ‘screw it, let’s go for it’, and it’s very awkward, and they’re like ‘no, this isn’t right’ type of thing.
here is what I find very telling, and what I also found very telling in D&D's JB 'sex scene'. I think we are seeing awkwardness imposed upon JB from the perspective of the reader here. like yes, I agree, their first time would probably be a bit awkward - Jaime has experience with only one person, and Brienne with no one, but I'd say perhaps the majority of 'first times' are awkward. but if it's a consensual encounter between two people who are sexually and romantically attracted to one another..... you have to explain, on what basis do you think it would be 'unsuccessful'? what is going to poison this encounter? what is fundamentally 'not right' about it?
I'm going to take a guess that there is something about Brienne, an ugly woman who presents in quite a masculine way, having sex with a beautiful man, that strikes a lot of people as 'not right'. I think it struck D&D, even though they had Gwendoline Christie of all people to ease them into the idea. it just flies right in the face of what so many people consider 'sexy', and so they work to get the sex out of it. there is a reason that D&D adapted Jaime and Brienne's love scene the way they did, and it has a lot more to do with their discomfort and awkwardness around the pairing than it has anything to do with the characters themselves. and without meaning to project that onto this tiktokker..... i'm going to hazard a guess that given the prevalence of these bizarre non-arguments, some of that discomfort factors in here too.
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