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I need a lotr/silm fan to help me understanding smth rn
Why did elrond's children got to choose wheter to be man or elf but Elro's children didn't got the same choice? Or did i misunderstood some small letters of this choice they were given??
There's an interesting tidbit in Nature of Middle-earth that suggests maybe Elros's children did have the choice (or at least that Tolkien temporarily considered it):
[EĂ€rendil] was not allowed to return to Middle-earth, but he obtained the grace (from Eru via ManwĂ«) that his children, being half-elven on both sides â descendants of Idril and of LĂșthien â should (a) have a choice of which kindred they would belong to, and (b) should in each kind have âa long and fair youthâ â sc., should only slowly reach maturity â and that this should extend to the second generation: thus Elrond : Arwen and Elros : Vardamir.
With a footnote (by C. Hostetter) noting that originally the passage even extended that gift to the third generation (Eldarion through Arwen / Tar-Amandil through Vardamir) and that:
This appears to be the only suggestion in Tolkienâs writings that Vardamir was like Arwen among the Half-elven and so likewise had a âchoice of kindredâ.
As to why this idea generally does not appear in the rest of Tolkien's writings... I suppose (but this is more speculative) that maybe the reason Elrond's children were given the choice in such an exceptional fashion is because the Gift of Men is so important, so that Eru/the Valar were keen not to deny it to anyone who might be able receive it. There's a (to me) fascinating passage in HoME 9 that relates to Elrond specifically but I think sheds light on the whole topic:
And Elrond chose to remain with the Firstborn, and to him the life of the Firstborn was given, and yet a grace was added, that choice was never annulled, and while the world lasted he might return, if he would, to mortal men, and die.
Of course Tolkien did explicitly go back on that idea and made Elrond's choice irrevocable but that he even considered this is I think telling? The idea that the choice to receive the Gift of Men (really the more desirable fate) should always be available to those of mortal blood - whereas making it possible for Men to refuse it is - less advisable.
(Also tied into that IMO is the fact that LĂșthien's receiving the Gift is stated as fact, but Tuor's fate and possibly joining the Eldar is suggested much more tentatively... but again very speculative on my part.)
I think Andreth, LĂșthien and Arwen should become best friends in the afterlife of the Timeless Hall. Three "mortal women", FĂriel, whose tales are so themetically connected to love and death and memory, and Estel.
It's really hard to describe the genius and like 'decades before it's time' nature of Charles Mills' 'The Wretched of Middle-earth' essay, (and how infuriating it is to see critiques like 'um but elves CAN be evil, checkmate' as if that is either a pertinent critique or relates to his main argument at all) without just saying 'go read the essay'. since it is the most concise and revealing version of itself that could possibly exist.
But still, to try and put into perspective how precisely he nails Tolkien's influences and racial politics; Charles Mills' essay tacitely predicts aspects of the Tal-Elmar story without him even having read it, likely before it was even published.
In one section Mills compares Tolkien's use of language to the early-modern 'Aryan model' influenced Philologists and their hunt for the origins of language, implicitely connected to trying to discover 'the roots of race'.
The central claim of the Aryan Model was that Greek was a âpureâ language and that the (Japhetic) Indo-European language family generally was connected by blood to the hypothetical Sanskrit-speaking Aryan race, and thus sharply distinguished both in genesis and subsequent development from the (Hamito-Semitic) Afro-Asiatic language family.
So, simply, 'pure blood' and 'pure language' are intimately connected within the Aryan-myth-applying intellectual understanding of the time, which was extremely contemporary to Tolkien long before it came to it's natural conclusion in nazi germany. Where it followed that; Teutonic languages and peoples were superior to the (Mediterranean-contaminated) Romance languages and peoples, that German was a âpureâ language similar to Greek and thus the real descendant of Sanskrit, that Indo-European should really be called Indo-Germanisch, and that the Germans themselves were the true heirs of the Aryans.
Mills compares this very aptly to the elven development and possession of Quenya in Tolkien, a pure and superior language that is brought to middle earth and confers both divine and racial status to those who can speak it.
However, when I read these passages, I am jarringly reminded of Tal-Elmar, a story which disposes of any pretense at subtext within the connection between blood and language and makes it crudely blunt.
Tal-Elmar is an unfinished story by Tolkien about a young man (Tal-Elmar) raised amongst the indigenous 'dark men' of middle-earth, but whose grandmother was a numenorean. Her curse, fueled by her anger at being kidnapped, raped and forcibly married, conferred upon Tal-Elmar absolute racial purity. This vengeance I will have, [âŠ] in thy kin one shall arise who is mine alone. And with his arising shall come the end of thy people and the downfall of your king.
And in this narrative, when Tal-Elmar meets with men from Numenor, this is what happens;
[Tal-Elmar] said when he heard the [Numenoreans] speak to one another: 'This is strange for you speak the language of my long dreams. Yet surely now I stand in my own land and do not sleep?' Then they were astonished and said: 'Why did you not speak so to us before? You spoke like the people of the Dark who are our enemies, being servants of our Enemy.' And Tal-Elmar answered: 'Because this tongue has only returned to my mind hearing you speak it; and because how should I have known that you would understand the language of my dreams?'
Quite literally Tal-Elmar's pure blood is so pure that speaking the 'pure language' is innate to him, conferred by right of race alone. Like this is not even in the top ten of 'most racist things that happen in Tal-Elmar' it's a mile a minute with this one but in specific reference with Charles Mills, it's endlessly impressive to me that even work published within the Tolkien legendarium after Mills wrote the essay adds MORE credence to his already extremely compelling argument, not less. God Charles I wish I could talk to you about LOTRO's main story questline in Harad, it's dire out here.
I'm a (relatively) new Tolkien fan, and as much as I love his work, one thing that infuriates me is that of all the possible reasons he could have written, CHOSE to write that Maeglin became evil because "Idril didn't love him back and therefore was a jealous incel" (wtf).
Wait, actually not, It actually says that he was born evil:
âYet in all that he did he had no love of others, nor cared he ever for any save himself; and it seemed to many that some darkness lay upon him from his birth.â (Silmarillion, Of Maeglin).
Tolkien, are you sure you're Catholic and not Calvinist??? (With all due respect to Calvinists, whose faith I donât know well enough to presume to judge in any way, and wouldnât even if I did, because peopleâs faith is a personal matter. I just wanted to point out that this choice represents a determinist philosophical dynamic that does not belong to the Catholicism, the faith to which Tolkien believed and whose morals tried to insert into his work.)
And he didn't chose to write he betrayed Gondolin becouse of, I don't know, some legitimate reason to be mad that NARRATIVELY HE HAD, like the fact that THEY THREW HIS FATHER OFF A CLIFF IN FRONT OF HIS EYES WHILE HE WAS STILL A BOY. And then HE WAS ADOPTED BY THE SAME ELF WHO ORDERED HIM TO BE EXECUTED. And he can't even leave the city because THERE'S A DEATH PENALTY (which is what drove his father mad in the first place).
Oh no, wait, those reasons are not valid because his father was the violent DARK ELF who kidnapped and raped the WHITE LADY of the Noldor, and therefore Turgon is a hero for saving his sister and nephew by EXECUTING A MAN WITHOUT TRIAL. And then the MIXED SON became an ungrateful traitor to the city that had welcomed him because "he was very much like his father".
...
...
...
TOLKIEN WHAT THE FU- (colonial propagandistic historiography 101).
Not to mention that in The Book of Lost Tales, Part Two, it is said about Maglin (Maeglin): "Less fair was he than most of these goodly folk, swart and of none too kindly mood, so that he won little love, and whispers there were that he had Orc's blood in his veins, but I know not how this could be true." And so here too we have that the mixed son is:
uglish
dark-skinned (and therefore voluntarily or unintentionally connected to the previous point)
sullen and hostile
disliked by the other citizens
And, of course, "he's said to have Orc blood." IT IS SAID. People whisper and speculate about Maeglin's ancestry to justify his being "different." And needless to say, in real-world contexts, "rumors" quickly devolve into "things said to one's face," and thus into daily verbal microaggressions. Then in the published Silmarillion, his skin color was changed to "pale" and it was said that he "resembled the Noldor in appearance," but all the racialized subtext remained (cough cough Dark Elf ).
But precisely because they all have similar traits, all European languages play with synonyms to convey a message and/or a specific characterization through symbolism. In English it's perhaps more subtle because "pale" is still used, but note how the term "fair" is preferred. In Italian, however, heroes' skin is described as "candida" (which has a very strong moral connotation, meaning "immaculate white" and is metaphorically associated with good souls), "chiara" ("light tone"), or, if we're feeling particularly poetic, "nevina" ("like snow"), "marmorea" ("like marble") or "d'alabastro" ("like alabaster"). But not "pallida" (pale)."
"Pallida" literally means "affected by pallor," meaning with little blood, i.e., sick. And so it's also symbolically associated with a character who is slimy, evil, treacherous, weak, deceitful, and/or ambitious for the sake of power. In literature, to be pale are traditionally are the evil advisor and the uncle who wants to usurp the throne of his brother the king, and therefore the fratricidal one, because the three roles often overlap. Some examples of this type of character are Wormtongue in The Lord of the Rings and... Maeglin himself (and no surprise, becouse the two follow the same archetype).
As a woman, I appreciate that Tolkien wrote a story in which the abuser and the creep are punished and the woman isn't blamed in any way, because that's rare even in modern literature (cough cough dark romance novels). But I don't accept that to do so he filled his story with racist and colonial stereotypes that still today cause social tensions and have repercussion on people lives. I personally don't think that that was Tolkien intention, becouse he was a man born in a time, in a culture and in a social status when this type of narrative was EVERYWHERE and he maybe couldn't fully recognize the impact it could have on other people. But the modern reader can and SHOULD recognize it.
And this situation could have been avoided if the character coded as the rapist and abuser and the creep/stalker had been LITERALLY ANYONE OTHER than the only named Avarin and his bastard son (because let's remember that since technically Turgon and/or Fingolfin didn't approve of Eöl and Aredhel's marriage, and therefore said marriage is invalid by the Noldor's logic). And it could have been avoided if Maeglin hadn't been coded as "the dangerous outsider" and Tuor as "the good outsider."
Just imagine what kind of story it would have been if Idril's stalker had been any of the other Lords of Gondolin. Opportunities to discuss the Noldor's internalized misogyny, their sense of self-entitlement wich made them act that everything is theirs, their presumption that they are the center of the world. But this would have ruined the image of the Noldor as "heroes" (after they literally committed a massacre before even setting out on their holy war... okay, John), as "bearers of civilization, wisdom, and knowledge of Aman," as "saviors of the defenseless peoples threatened by the evil Morgoth." So it's up to the native's son.
Or better yet, imagine what it might have been like if the Fall of Gondolin had been caused by "Maeglin gets tortured and then commits treason and attempted rape + attempted infanticide" and instead "Maeglin goes of his own volition to the tutelary deities of the local peoples and leads a charge in which THEY BURN THE COLONIAL CITY TO TAKE BACK THEIR LANDS "đ„đ„đ„
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There are many ways to horribly and violently murder someone, but Mairon really seemed to prefer punishing his enemies by having his servants devour them (Shelob isnât exactly a servant, but the result is still the same, lol).
With Beren and Finrod you could maybe argue that it was just a method of torture, that he wanted to break them mentally and force them to confess what he needed to know. But in LOTR, he sends prisoners to Shelob when he doesnât need anything from them anymore. And on top of that, he wants reports on what she does with them.
That Maia was truly unhinged. Absolutely nuts đ„Č
"Ăowyn was slender and tall, with a grace and pride that came to her out of the South from Morwen of Lossarnach, whom the Rohirrim had called Steelsheen."
(Appendix A "The House of Eorl")
Ăowyn with Shadowfax in the lush meadows of Rohan @megarywrites @sotwk :)
1. After MĂriel was embodied and became the handmaid of VairĂ«:
For now she is named FĂriel,* which to the Eldar signifies âShe that diedâ, and also âShe that sighedâ. As fair as the webs of FĂriel is praise that is given seldom even to works of the Eldar.
- Morgoth's Ring: Laws and Customs Among the Eldar
2. LĂșthien
Firiel= âmortal maidâ, later name of LĂșthien.
- The Lost Road and Other Writings: Etymologies
3. FĂriel, a maiden of Elendil's household, daughter of Orontor sang a song in the EressĂ«an tongue in the earlier version of the Fall of NĂșmenor:
The Father made the World for Elves and Mortals, and he gave it into the hands of the Lords. They are in the West. They are holy, blessed, and beloved: save the dark one. He is fallen. Melko has gone from Earth: it is good. For Elves they made the Moon, but for Men the red Sun; which are beautiful. To all they gave in measure the gifts of IlĂșvatar. The World is fair, the sky, the seas, the earth, and all that is in them. Lovely is NĂșmenor. But my heart resteth not here for ever; for here is ending, and there will be an end and the Fading, when all is counted, and all numbered at last, but yet it will not be enough, not enough. What will the Father, O Father, give me in that day beyond the end when my Sun faileth?
- The Lost Road and Other Writings: The NĂșmenĂłrean Chapters
4. The ancestress of Aragorn, daughter of Ondoher, king of Gondor, is named FĂriel. Despite being the only surviving child, she didn't became queen because the Exiled Realms of Gondor and Arnor hadn't followed the law of absolute primogeniture made by Aldarion back in NĂșmenor.
5. In The Last Ship, a poem of the lore of the Shire originating in the Fourth Age, and was probably derived from Gondor, a mortal woman, FĂriel, was offered a place by the Elves to aboard the ship sailing to the West, but then:
FĂriel looked from the river bank,
one step daring;
then deep in clay her feet sank,
and she halted, staring.
Slowly the elven-ship went by
whispering through the water:
âI cannot come!â they heard her cry.
âI was born Earthâs daughter!â
So. Your post about elves and the way colonialism works in Silmarillion got me curious. I always thought Noldor were still native to Middle Earth (even tho most of them left ME and it's their children/grandchildren who are coming back, I think some of the first generation might have come back to ME too) My problem with what Noldor did-I'm not counting Finrod (and Galadriel) here. What they did is clear in the text, as you said- is that they settled and chose to make their kingdoms in lands that had people living there instead somewhere that no one owns/lives.
So I want to know your opinion about considering the later generations of Noldor (like Feanor, Fingon, Idril, Celebrimbor) as native to ME? If not, why?
(You don't have to answer if don't want to. I just loved that post, it was so well thought, that and I like to know different opinions)
Well, yes & no.
If you google "colonialism" you'll get what seems like a straightforward answer about colonialism as an act of domination & economic extraction by one foreign power over another. This is only partially correct. There are many places in the world where we would describe indigenous people as having colonial relationships with their countries - even though to all extents & purposes, to an outsider's eye, it looks like one native population dominating the other (e.g. internal relations in India between mainland India and Kashmir, the North East and indigenous peoples across the country). Colonialism is probably better and more expansively understood as a power relationship of economic exploitation & extraction between of one ethno-racial group by another in the modern day - and that is probably a more effective definition to work with in relation to the Elves rather than a simplistic inside/outside binary.
There are lots of ways we can problematise this, but for the sake of Elf politics, I think we can simplify this to the fact that a) the Elves loosely regard themselves as different "nations" as in ethnically affiliated groups (Vanyar, Noldor, Teleri, Avari and then at least amongst the Teleri & Avari, further subdivisions) and b) that there are dynamics of racialisation and superiority linked to that framing of themselves as "nations" e.g. "Amanyar" v. "Umanyar", "Celbin" v. "Morben", "Eldar" v. "Avari", and then the shadowy inbetween categories of "Sindar" and "Eglath" and "Nandor". All of this suggests that while they are all "Elves" and they all ostensibly came from the same place, they don't actually see themselves as the same nations or peoples and therefore, it makes sense to look more closely at how linked they are to territories & place and what their relationship with a land is in the canon.
So yes, the Noldor came from Middle Earth, but the relationship they have with Middle Earth's lands now is very different from the Sindar, the Avari and the Nandor. For one, they've spent 3488 sun years / 364 valinorian years in Valinor. For another, the Sindar have actually been working the lands of Beleriand - Thingol straight up says so in his message granting lands to the Noldor:
In Hithlum the Noldor have leave to dwell, and in the highlands of Dorthonion, and in the lands east of Doriath that are empty and wild; but elsewhere there are many of my people, and I would not have them restrained of their freedom, still less ousted from their homes.
This is the context in which Maedhros replies this:
âA king is he that can hold his own, or else his title is vain. Thingol does but grant us lands where his power does not run. Indeed Doriath alone would be his realm this day, but for the coming of the Noldor. Therefore in Doriath let him reign, and be glad that he has the sons of FinwĂ« for his neighbours, not the Orcs of Morgoth that we found. Elsewhere it shall go as seems good to us.â
Later on, when Eol goes to Gondolin, he makes some very strident accusations against the Noldor, that again suggests some very strident intra-racial tensions -
âI acknowledge not your law,â he said. âNo right have you or any of your kin in this land to seize realms or to set bounds, either here or there. This is the land of the Teleri, to which you bring war and all unquiet, dealing ever proudly and unjustly. I care nothing for your secrets and I came not to spy upon you, but to claim my own: my wife and my son. - Of Maeglin
To which Turgon responds:
I will not debate with you, Dark Elf. By the swords of the Noldor alone are your sunless woods defended. Your freedom to wander there wild you owe to my kin; and but for them long since you would have laboured in thraldom in the pits of Angband. And here I am King; and whether you will it or will it not, my doom is law.
All of which denotes an uncomfortable relationship of power between these two groups - one that is suggestive at the very least of an imperial conquest & imperialist relationship between the Noldor and Sindar outside of Doriath. In other words, the Noldor have come into territory which was already possessed by the Mithrim Sindar, which by means of narrative device has been rendered "terra nullius" at the time of the Noldor's arrival, and this land has been reconfigured, remapped and divided amongst the Noldor - regardless of the will or interest of the local Mithrim Sindar population.
So it is immaterial to the narrative about whether or not these Elves are "native" to Middle Earth. The Sindar are "native" to Middle Earth and still remained within Middle Earth, yet have a colonial relationship with the Nandor & Silvan Elves in the Second Age! In The Unfinished Tales, in the section on The History of Celeborn & Galadriel, we have this, in the tale of Amroth (a Sindarin prince) & Nimrodel -
She loved him indeed, for he [Amroth] was beautiful even for one of the Eldar, and valiant and wise; but she was of the Silvan Elves, and regretted the incoming of the Elves from the West, who (as she said) brought wars and destroyed the peace of old. She would speak only the Silvan tongue, even after it had fallen into disuse among the folk of LĂłrien
So, the question of "native" is like, a pretty fraught one as well, considering that the Elves themselves are defining their racial categories in relation to their proximity to Valinor! The closer you are to the Valar, the more superior & therefore, possessed of a "divine right to rule" - a baked in and textually rationalised colonial hierarchy. Avari & Nandor recognise the "Eldar" as "kin" but also "foreign" (and this includes the Sindar!). On the other hand, the Noldor think of Middle Earth as their "birthright" and Cuivienen as their "home" - while some of the Avari, who call themselves "the Seniors" (per NoME) might reject that claim, since the Noldor rejected Middle Earth in accepting the Valar's offer to go to Valinor, while still acknowledging the kinship between the two peoples. In fact, in the essay Quendi and Eldar in The War of the Jewels, we get this -
The first Avari that the Eldar met again in Beleriand seem to have claimed to be Tatyar, who acknowledged their kinship with the Exiles, though there is no record of their using the name Ăoldo in any recognizable Avarin form. They were actually unfriendly to the Ăoldor, and jealous of their more exalted kin, whom they accused of arrogance.
And simultaneously this -
The Ăoldor indeed asserted that most of the âTeleriâ were at heart Avari, and that only the Eglain really regretted being left in Beleriand. ...
Indeed the Teleri on their side asserted that most of the Ăoldor in Aman itself were in heart Avari, and returned to Middle-earth when they discovered their mistake; they needed room to quarrel in.
So there's a lot of competing claims and assertions that are highly politicised and racialised, that I don't think it makes sense to impose our categories of "native" or "foreign" on the Elves. Its ultimately about the very slippery and constantly changing nature of their relationship with each other, governed largely through the question of actual racial superiority denoted through proximity to the Valar. Could Celebrimbor or Idril theoretically assimilate and become one with the Nandor in a way that isn't colonial? Possibly! But that would mean first deconstructing the hierarchies already embedded in Elvish "nations", especially when those hierarchies assert special power or special authority to rule because of greater "wisdom" or "knowledge" in-universe.
Your meta prompted me to start thinking more critically about them (and the Silm in general) so âïž about Imin, Ingwe, and the Vanyar please?
ooooooh GOOD QUESTION and rly my response is going to be a bit of an extension of this particular post + some of a draft of a very long essay I have been tinkering with off and on, explaining the genealogy of kingship, the divine right of kings & monarchism amongst the Elves across the Ages. I'm drawing heavily on the Nature of Middle Earth version of the telling because that's the one with the most detail filled in.
One of the most fascinating things to me in Nature of Middle Earth is the role that Imin plays in establishing some of the politics of the Elves in general, wielding the figure of Eru Iluvatar & therefore the language of the divine right, as authority in doing so. He also, right at the very outset, establishes a hierarchy amongst the Elves by positioning himself as more divinely chosen for having been woken first -
Then Imin claimed to be the eldest and to have the right of first choice; and he said, âI choose these twelve to be my companionsâ.
(versions of this quote appear both in the NoME and HoME versions of the Tale of Awakening)
Already the language of right and entitlement, linked to primogeniture! Imin's right and entitlement here is framed in terms of being able to choose Elves who will be part of his people - i.e. nation formation. Its interesting that in this process of nation formation, Imin is also the one who is simultaneously the most picky and the most interested in having the largest following & influence -
Reading it against that other meta, I do think while the Valar legitimate the hierarchy that the Elves develop in Valinor, the origins of that hierarchy are clearly established long before the Valar appear. In each case, Imin is the one who is offered the first choice and turns it down. Imin is the one who seeks power/influence for himself by looking to build a nation that is both highly bordered (his refusal to choose any group) and yet one that is very peopled (an ambition which fails). He is the one who attempts to set an agenda for their people ("we should go on and seek more companions"). Already amongst the Elves there is a tiering of peoples, with Imin's people being positioned amongst the "first", because of Imin's own firstness - something which is also reinforced in the naming and which Tolkien explicitly draws our attention to in a footnote:
The Three had no names until they had developed language, and were given (or took) names after they had devised numerals (or at least the first 12).
Later on, during the decision that will split the Elves, Imin reinforces this hierarchy even further and specifically ties his primogeniture to fatherhood and the authority of a leader, derived from Eru -
Imin makes a speech, claiming that the âThree Fathersâ have authority (from Eru, since He woke them first), and should decide. Tata says that each of the Fathers should have authority but only over his own Company. Enel agrees to this, but makes it clear that he is against the move. Imin claims to be âFather of All Quendiâ, but urges that they should at least in the end all do the same, and not break up the Kindred. ....
Imin claims to be the âFather of All Quendiâ (Ilquendatar) and to have right of decision. ... Imin says that will inevitably divide the Folk. Tata says that is inevitable anyway without force. - XIII Key Dates, Part I, NoME
In staking a claim to being the "Father of All Quendi", Imin is staking a claim to defining all of Elvish nationhood, not just of the Vanyar, and therefore, who they are and what they might or might not do. As the first, as the oldest, he has special authority from Eru, and therefore he has special power to make decisions, including on behalf of the Elvish body as a whole, as a father might for his whole family. Its also interesting that he uses the language of fatherhood here, and not kingship. Authority is still defined in terms of fathers and leaderships - Elves as family, as kinship group forming a nation, rather than the language of a state. This lineage of authority over family -> authority over kinship group -> authority over nation is reinforced by Imin, Tata & Enel also insisting that Eru appointed men over women because men woke first and therefore "began" the families.
The other interesting to me here is that while Imin would like his authority to be absolute, his authority is in fact deeply contested, both by the Elves at large but also by Tata & Enel. Both Tata & Enel's comments at least imply that Elves are aware of and perhaps have used other modes of governance and they aren't only governed in absolutist fashion - or else that there has been enough debate amongst the Elves that absolutist rule isn't a given or settled matter.
Also evident is that unlike IRL monarchies (and states), authority amongst the Elves atp doesn't seem to be maintained through the imminent threat of violence. Seemingly, the insistence of divine appointment is enough to hold the Elves in line, or else presumably the threat of exile, which would be as good as a death sentence until Morgoth was defeated by the Valar (which tbh is a kind of threat of violence in itself, if couched in palatable terms). Imin's focus on unity and cohesion until Tata makes explicit the cost also kind of implies that Imin might have been willing to go that far until its made clear to him that it would be squarely seen as a bad thing. You do kind of wonder if he really would have Gone There.
The âAmbassadorsâ return. Great Debate of the Quendi. A few refuse even to attend. Imin, Tata, and Enel are ill-pleased, and regard the affair as a revolt on the part of the youngest Quendi, to escape their authority. â Key Dates, NoME
IngwĂ« speaks with great deference of the Three Fathers, and especially of Imin. He says it was a mistake that Imin, Tata, and Enel did not go themselves, for they could have exerted authority with judgement. But since they sent him and his companions as their representatives, they should now (in spite of their youth) pay great heed to their reports and opinions. He thinks they have no conception of the riches of beauty in Valinor. He asks OromĂ« if it is still possible for Imin, Tata, and Enel to go to Valinor? OromĂ« says âyes, if they will go at onceâ. The Three Fathers are not willing. - Key Dates, NoME
These two passages are also really the Imin & Ingwe relationship to me in a nutshell. While Ingwe in Valinor is High King over the Elves, its a tendency he comes by honestly from his forefather. However, there is a time at which Ingwe is seen to be rebelling against the authority of Imin, Tata and Enel. Read in the light of familial rebellion, Imin's response tending towards control makes sense - if the Elves depart, Imin's authority is diminished. His hold over his "family" is reduced and his fellow Elves now understand his authority can not only be contested, but that this contestation might be successful. His authority is revealed to not be divine; the Valar have the potential to supersede him. In fact, the Valar might choose to bestow their blessing on someone else who contests Imin's authority, if they're following in the Valar's paths. Eru Iluvatar and his divine revelation as rhetoric and disciplinary strategy is undermined in one go.
Yet also, Ingwe is a rebel! Ingwe's rebellion ofc is couched in religious terms - a desire to be proximate to the Unsullied Light, for the beauty of Valinor (both beauty and light frequently (and problematically) standing in symbolically for holiness in Tolkien's legendarium). This betrayal is not even from outside the family, but from within, from Imin's own descendant and heir. Yet Ingwe frames his rebellion in the gentlest terms from all the three - Tolkien explicitly describes Finwe's comments as taking an insulting turn in one version of the telling. Ingwe draws on and depends heavily on the authority of the Valar to push back against Imin. He knows he needs a source of divine authority in order to back any claims to leaving Cuivienen - yet still tries to couch it all in conciliatory terms, if Imin et al are willing to defer to the Valar.
What I wonder about, leaving aside the narrow reading of canon, is what conditions exist in Cuivienen that makes the younger Elves want to leave - that frames this entire act as "rebellion", outside of the undermining of authority and its sources? I don't have any good answers, but my hypothesis is that Cuivienen was actually an extremely stifling society; that based on the implications, Imin was quite a stifling leader; that the younger Elves had very little hope of ruling or living without Imin et al interfering and constantly undermining their authority; that the Valar appeared in the light of saviours who had actual wisdom, power and authority to refute declarative statements being made by Imin, Tata and Enel re. the ordering of society; that the Valar's appearance made rebellion possible without the threat of deadly exile or excommunication from the following of Eru (since the Valar personally know Eru).
Is this a mistake by the Valar? I don't think there's any good answers & that maybe the real answer is that the Elves would have been discontented no matter what, because conditions of inequality and hierarchy had been imposed on them from the beginning of the world by the Three Fathers, but especially under the guidance of Imin, using the framework of divine right and appointed authority to do so. Under those conditions, I think rebellion of some sort would always have been inevitable. The difference is that the Valar seem to have provided, funnily enough, a safe off-ramp: a counterbalance to the authority that was being exerted by the Elvish forefathers and clearly not being surrendered.
Anyway, re. the Vanyar specifically - other people have talked about the racial dimensions and their selective nature having also reified some kind of ethnic supremacy, so I won't touch on that. What I will say is that I think all of this put together means that the Vanyar especially cling to the Valar as having legitimated that initial departure from Cuivienen. Its interesting that they're the only group that cleave completely to the Valar - the Teleri trust the Valar but hold them at arm's length; the Noldor ofc outright rebel. The Vanyar, on the other hand, seem to be completely faithful. Lots of questions and possibilities! Ofc, they are more "favoured" by the Valar. But on the other hand, there's equally the possibility that those Vanyar who are in Valinor now remember what Cuivienen was like and don't want to return back there.
I observed this flippantly elsewhere, but in a world where Eru is the only authority and Eru is distant and only has interlocutors who claim to speak on his behalf, anyone who stands on a rung lower in the hierarchy has basically no recourse if the main figure of authority declares that Eru told them to do xyz. The worst thing that can be said about Manwe is that he's too credulous and kind. The worst thing that can be said about Imin in this is that he comes across as a bit of a tyrant and asshole. Its possible that the Vanyar, at least, (along, ironically, with many of the Feanorian wives) seem to think the Valar are the much better deal in terms of authority as far as authorities go.
TL;DR: Tolkien created an irresolvable contradiction in his text when he decided monarchy is good, then created imperfect beings. Imin is basically a case in point.
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âDarkness and blood! When we could move again we came to the house. There we found the king slain at the door. His head was crushed as with a great mace of iron. We found no others: all had fled, and he had stood alone, defiant. That is plain; for his sword lay beside him, twisted and untempered as if by lightning-stroke. All the house was broken and ravaged. Naught is left. The treasuries are empty. The chamber of iron is torn apart. The Silmarils are taken!â
- Morgoth's Ring: Of the Silmarils and the Darkening of Valinor
At last the attackers broke into Eregion with ruin and devastation, and captured the chief object of Sauronâs assault, the House of the MĂrdain, where were their smithies and their treasures. Celebrimbor, desperate, himself withstood Sauron on the steps of the great door of the MĂrdain; but he was grappled and taken captive, and the House was ransacked.
- Unfinished Tales: The History of Galadriel and Celeborn
Then Galadriel spoke to Melian of the Silmarils, and of the slaying of King FinwĂ« at Formenos: but still she said no word of the Oath, nor of the Kinslaying, nor of the burning of the ships at Losgar. But Melian said: âNow much you tell me, and yet more I perceive. A darkness you would cast over the long road from Tirion, but I see evil there, which Thingol should learn for his guidance.â
I swear thatâs in the text, they go from BFF to this (but I love Galadrielâs attitude: âWhy donât we forget all that shit? Like 'that woe is pastâ , you know?  I wasnât even part of most of it! You want to know what happened? Ask someone else!â)
[Now TĂșrin was made ready for the journey, and he bade farewell to his mother, and departed in secret with his two companions. But when they bade TĂșrin turn and look back upon the house of his father, then the anguish of parting smote him like a sword, and he cried: âMorwen, Morwen, when shall I see you again?â But Morwen standing on her threshold heard the echo of that cry in the wooded hills, and she clutched the post of the door so that her fingers were torn. This was the first of the sorrows of TĂșrin.]
[But Morwen would not depart from her house, for her heart was yet unchanged and her pride still high; moreover NiĂ«nor was a babe in arms. Therefore she dismissed the Elves of Doriath with her thanks, and gave them in gift the last small things of gold that remained to her, concealing her poverty; and she bade them take back to Thingol the Helm of Hador. But TĂșrin watched ever for the return of Thingolâs messengers; and when they came back alone he fled into the woods and wept, for he knew of Melianâs bidding and he had hoped that Morwen would come. This was the second sorrow of TĂșrin.]
At first their company had less than fifty men, but the woodcraft of Beleg and the valour of Turin made them seem to their enemies as a host. The scouts of the Orcs were hunted, their camps were espied, and if they gathered to march in force in some narrow place, out of the rocks or from the shadow of the trees there leaped the Dragon-helm and his men, tall and fierce. Soon at the very sound of his horn in the hills their captains would quail and the Orcs would turn to flight before any arrow whined or sword was drawn.
(âŠ)
In that year far and wide in Beleriand the whisper went, under wood and over stream and through the passes of the hills, saying that the Bow and Helm that had fallen in Dimbar (as was thought) had arisen again beyond hope. Then many, both Elves and Men, who went leaderless, dispossessed but undaunted, remnants of battle and defeat and lands laid waste, took heart again, and came to seek the Two Captains, though where they had their stronghold none yet knew. Turin received gladly all who came to him, but by the counsel of Beleg he admitted no newcomer to his refuge upon Amon Rudh (and that was now named Echad i Sedryn, Camp of the Faithful); the way thither only those of the Old Company knew and no others were admitted. But other guarded camps and forts were established round about: in the forest eastward, or in the highlands, or in the southward fens, from Methed-en-glad (âthe End of the Woodâ) south of the Crossings of Teiglin to Bar-erib some leagues south of Amon Rudh in the once fertile land between Narog and the Meres of Sirion. From all these places men could see the summit of Amon Rudh, and by signals receive tidings and commands.Â
In this way, before the summer had passed, the following of Turin had swelled to a great force, and the power of Angband was thrown back. Word of this came even to Nargothrond, and many there grew restless, saying that if an outlaw could do such hurt to the Enemy, what might not the Lord of Narog do.
1. TĂșrin is so fucking competent :â) Holy fuck!!! People focus so much on curse curse bla bla bla that they forget this is a man who knew how to fight and how to get results.
2. My joy that despite it being âThe Two Captainsâ, this little line
Turin received gladly all who came to him, but by the counsel of Beleg he admitted no newcomer to his refuge
makes it clear TĂșrin was the one running the operation :â) I assume Tuor had a position of command over the elves of the house he was charged with when he became a lord in Gondolin, but there is something simply very cool at how organic TĂșrinâs command over (what I assume to be) straggler elves comes aboutâŠ
One of the things that consistently perplexes me in fandom conversations around LaCE is the assertion that LaCE states or implies that Elf-sex always results in a child. This is just...not true of the text?
I talked a bit about the "you have sex, you get Elf-married" assumption here, and much like that example, I think a lot of this one also comes from reading the text with the fandom depiction in mind - and inadvertently reading into it what is already understood to be the case.
LaCE begins its discussion of Elven marriage by describing the ceremony of betrothal and marriage and how these are both achieved. In the oft-referenced wedding sex passage, we are told that
It was the act of bodily union that achieved marriage, and after which the indissoluble bond was complete.
I talked in more detail about this passage in the post already linked above, but the main thing we need to take away from it for the sake of this conversation is that an Elf was not married until the act of bodily union completed the indissoluble bond.
With that in mind, we follow the text to its description of Elven reproduction and childbirth. The important passage to note within this is regarding the timeline between conception and birth:
As for the begetting and bearing of children: a year passes between the begetting and the birth of an elf-child, so that the days of both are the same or nearly so, and it is the day of begetting that is remembered year by year.Â
Whether LaCE is utilizing Years of the Trees or Years of the Sun throughout the text is debatable, but it's not really necessary to elucidate that for the current discussion. The important thing here is that this, paired with the subsequent description of the timing between marriage, first, and additional children, is where we can see clearly that LaCE assumes that sex does not always result in procreation:
[...]at whatever age they married, their children were born within a short space of years after their wedding.*
* Short as the Eldar reckoned time. In mortal count there was often a long interval between the wedding and the first child-birth, and even longer between child and child.
So what we know now is:
Elf-marriage is completed by (not caused solely by) bodily union
A year takes place between the conception and birth of an Elven child
Elven children are said to be born "within a short space of years" after the parents' marriage
There is often (not always, which is important!) a long interval of multiple years between the wedding and first childbirth
Which is a fairly straightforward contradiction of the 1:1 assumption. If every act of Elven sex resulted in a child, then a child would be born exactly one year after each marriage, since a marriage could not be completed without the act of bodily union. By telling us that there was "often a long interval between the wedding and the first child," LaCE establishes that there were occasions in which that interval was shorter. Which cannot be the case if all sex results in procreation because in that case the interval would need to be the same across the board. Additionally, it references "years" rather than "a year" when it discusses this intervening timespan, which reiterates that same fact.
This premise is confirmed by the Annals of Aman found in Morgoth's Ring where we are told that Finarfin weds EĂ€rwen in Y.T. 1280 and their first child, Finrod, was not born until Y.T. 1300: a full 20 years after their marriage.
(Why yes I did find a way to shoehorn a mention of my guy into this, yet again confirming that I cannot in fact make it five minutes without mentioning him.)
Anyway, all that to say, if you're wanting to be LaCE-compliant, get those Elves doing it for fun.
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one of my theories is that after the nirnaeth, if you asked someone who the high king of the noldor was the answers would vary WILDLY depending on where they were from and who they were allied with. the people of gondolin of course consider turgon to be the high king. they had a coronation ceremony and everything, which is why most historical texts recognize him as inheriting from fingon despite the lack of recognition from other noldor. some people from other factions are vaguely aware that he is alive to take the crown, but whether or not they actually consider him king is doubtful, since it doesn't do much good to have a king that you can't get ahold of ever. there's probably a decent-sized portion of nargothrond that considers orodreth as high king by default, as well as some sindar (though they don't have much skin in the game). there are probably even more of both who don't necessarily think of him as the high king, but do consider him to be the only king of the noldor who is accessible and still holds territory, and therefore the only king of the noldor that actually matters. I would guess that that group includes maedhros and thingol, among others. they may or may not recognize a high king of the noldor at all, assuming that the office is virtually obsolete. and then of course you have the Feanorians, and as far as they're concerned, the only leadership that matters right now is military leadership, and therefore maedhros is in charge and everyone else is irrelevant, regardless of fancy titles.
- had Angrod, Aegnor, and Orodreth as vassals (chapter 14)
- Recognized both Fingolfin as High King of the Noldor and Thingol as King of the Sindar (ch. 13)
- Befriended and allied with CĂrdan (ch. 14)
- Was friends with Turgon (ch. 13)
- Worked with the Dwarves (ch. 13)
- Befriended the Laiquendi (ch. 14)
- Was on positive terms with Maedhros and Maglor (ch. 17)
- Befriended the Beörians (ch. 17)
- Negotiated with Thingol on behalf of the Haladin (ch. 17)
⊠which combined represent just about every major group of people in Beleriand in the First Age. Finrod was a diplomatic lynchpin for basically the entire continent.