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Typically, when people think about their favorite heroes of the Trojan siege, they think of the likes of Achilles, or Odysseus, or even Agamemnon (or if you’re based, Hector.) And while these are all valid to whatever extent— because let’s be real, no one is choosing favorites based on who has the purest moral standpoint— they’re not exactly remembered for the noblest of reasons.

Achilles spends half of the Iliad inside his tent as a sulky burrito, and the other half slaughtering Trojans and crying over the consequences of his own actions. Odysseus is a chronic liar, and Agamemnon is Agamemnon. But at the end of the day, they’re still remembered (for better or for worse, really.)

Though, on the topic of Homeric heroes, I feel there is one who is often overlooked despite achieving great feats over the course of the epic; Diomedes of Argos. (Note: arguably the most metal of the Achaean heroes at Troy.) So, let’s rant talk about him!

Diomedes was one of the key players in Homer’s Iliad— a recount of the last year of the Trojan siege. Being summoned to fight under oath, Diomedes headed his fleet of 80 ships to Ilium. As well as having a whole chapter dedicated to how kickass he was [read more about that whole thing here], the king of Argos was also a master strategist, and extremely noble— not just in his war efforts.

For example, there are multiple points in the Iliad where he checks the leader of the Trojan expedition, Agamemnon, calling him out on his cowardice or for otherwise being an inadequate leader, [Book 9; ‘Agamemnon, I will begin by taking issue with you over your proposal… do you really believe the Greeks are the cowards and weaklings you say they are? If you for one, have set your heart on getting away, then go.’] [‘Zeus has granted you many things… He gave you the sceptre of power and the honour that comes with it, but he did not give you courage— and courage is the secret of authority.]

And one instance where he truces with the Trojan hero, Glaucus— both of them exchanging armors (on an active battlefield, btw) to honor the fact that their grandfathers had been allies, [Book 6; ‘So let us avoid each other’s spears... And let us exchange our armor so that everyone will know our grandfather’s friendship has made friends of us.’]

He is also one of the only soldiers in the war who avoids committing hubris in the entire epic, which is probably the most telling of all his virtuous traits.

Diomedes also has a proverb named after him! ‘Diomedean Necessity/Diomedean Compulsion', which basically means when someone does something for the greater good (despite the reluctance of the person in question.)

This is taken from the myth of Odysseus and Diomedes taking the wooden statue of Athena— dubbed the Palladium— from Ilium. During this heist, Odysseus tries to stab Diomedes in the back to steal the acclaim of taking the Palladium for himself.

Rather than punishing Odysseus on account of betraying his ally for personal gain, Diomedes ties him up and drags him back to camp instead, because he knew the Greeks couldn’t win the war without Odysseus’ wisdom.

Anyway, why the rant? Sure, I could sit here and convince you that he’s the coolest Greek hero, but what would I be trying to accomplish in doing so? Well, it’s simply because while every other Homeric hero is recognized and represented in modern media, Diomedes isn’t.

He wasn’t even mentioned once in Troy (2004), the film adaptation of the Iliad! Despite him being the focus of multiple chapters in the book, as well as playing a big role in the Achaean army’s over-all victory.

I’m sick of everyone (and by that, I mean most modern media) depicting him as though he was just some dude™ in the Iliad when he was actually (from a mildly biased standpoint) one of the best of the Achaeans at Troy.

TLDR; Diomedes of Argos = Based. He solos ur favs (probably. He almost killed Ajax the greater at Patroclus’ funeral games 💀)Put him in more movies/shows/games so me and the other two Diomedes fans can be happy.

Of course!

They deserve some love! 💖 (And a small tydeus sketch)

Childhood friends to lovers. Okay. Sthenelus was seven years old when he met Diomedes, who was five years old. They stayed best friends 4life since they were literal itty bitty kiddies. Daddy issues, mommy issues, war children. That's them. Yes.

Also like in the Iliad they're super close and I LOVE IT. Sthenelus boasting about being better than their fathers to the point Diomedes needs to tell him to shut up and, in book 9, Diomedes says that everyone can leave, he and Sthenelus will stay and fight till Troy falls.

So that happens. Sure whatever. Where's the doomed bit?

So after Troy some people say that Sthenelus left with Diomedes. And after they leave, Diomedes gains immortality. Ya'll ever think how Sthenelus might think about that?? He's going to grow old and die while Diomedes stays in an immortal body and keeps living. His CHILDHOOD BEST FRIEND IS GOING TO BE WORLDS AWAY FROM HIM. Did they grieve. Did they cry.

I HAVE DELIVERED

After months of dragging my feet, I finally fished it! (in 4 hours holy shit) and I'm kinda proud of it, but this is probably also the product of my excessive overthinking, but with not further ado, let's begin!

Let’s start with the basics: Tydeus was known for being a wild, out-of-control warrior. His rage was legendary. Diomedes? On paper, he’s the golden child: loyal, calm, respectful, chosen by Athena herself.

But that image of diomedes comes crashing down the moment you dig deeper into his character

On the surface, Diomedes is framed as the “better” version of his father, Tydeus: more disciplined, more strategic, favored by Athena instead of punished by her as stated previously. The Achaeans respect him (not so much leave the poor boy alone let him have his moment instead of comparing him to his father), the gods empower him, and Homer seems to elevate him as the model warrior.

But as i said, when you dig into the text, really look at what Diomedes does, how he fights, how he speaks, you start to see something much deeper and darker: he's not all that different from Tydeus at all when you think about it.

Reading the iliad but focusing on diomedes character its as if he’s constantly on the edge, just barely containing something

he’s a machine of destruction. He slaughters Trojans left and right, wounds Aphrodite without hesitation, and goes after Ares, the literal god of war. He only stops when Apollo himself tells him to back off—and even then, he makes a move again before finally being shut down.

That kind of divine defiance? That’s Tydeus-level rage. It’s just masked under a sheen of Athena’s wisdom and a more calculated cool. Diomedes may wear the face of the perfect Homeric hero, but there’s a savage streak that echoes his father’s madness, just barely held in check.

In the iliad book 10 dio and ody sneak in trojan teritory they catch dolon a trojan spie

Odysseus promises to spare him if he gives them info about the trojans and man sure does he spill

After that? Diomedes decapitates him.

He doesn’t just kill Dolon (after promising to spare him,) he slaughters him, strips him, and then goes on a joyride of death through the enemy camp. When they find Rhesus and his Thracians, Diomedes doesn’t blink—he kills twelve men in their sleep. And then he wants to keep going, like it’s not enough. It’s only when Athena, again, steps in and essentially says, “Okay, calm down now,” that he stops. In this book with Rhesus and the Thracians, Diomedes is already done. He’s already got what he came for. But instead of retreating, he chooses to kill—because it’s not about necessity. It’s about the desire to keep going.

And what’s so chilling about this is how pointless it is, tactically. After Dolon gives them all the info, they don’t need to go murder a dozen men. Diomedes chooses to. He gets no kleos, no divine reward. he doesn’t need a prize. The violence is the prize. He just does it. Because he can.

it’s explicit in the language Homer uses. Diomedes is in full battle ecstasy mode. described as moving like a lion among sheep, grinning and glorying in the chaos. he doesn’t just kill efficiently.

He revels in it.

He likes it, he thrives on the battlefield, and he enjoys bloodshed

"And the son of Tydeus, Diomedes, was glad in his heart as he struck down the men." Iliad book 5

"Glad in his heart" That phrase ("χαῖρε δὲ θυμῷ") pops up in a moments of sheer war ecstasy. It’s not just duty or valor—it’s joy. And when you see it describing Diomedes mid-slaying spree? That’s not your clean-cut hero. That’s a man dancing on the edge of madness.

it’s not just duty. It’s pleasure.

This illustrates how Diomedes isn’t just acting out of obligation not out of practicality, not out of necessity he’s relishing in the kill. It’s not just about the heroics or strategy; there’s an almost primal enjoyment in the violence itself.

The fact that he “was glad in his heart” tells you how far this man is from just being a noble warrior. He’s got that bloodlust burning inside him, and there’s an undeniable thrill in the destruction. It's scary how much he enjoys the suffering.

It’s clear that Diomedes, despite his noble status and divine favor, has that same chaotic, destructive edge his father Tydeus had—it’s just barely held in check.

That bloodlust? That JUST SCREAMS tydeus the difference?: Diomedes knows how to leash it. He’s not the monster his father was; he’s the tamer of that monster within himself. That restraint is what elevates him from being another brutal warrior into something greater: a true hero who chooses to remain in control, even when the thrill of violence is right there.

In fact, the only real difference is that Diomedes is simply better at pretending he’s in control. He puts on the face of the noble hero, but underneath, that same wildfire of rage, that same lust for blood, is burning—just like it was in Tydeus.

Diomedes doesn’t just embody the traits of a Homeric hero—he tests their limits. He walks a razor-thin line between earning immortal kleos and crossing into the kind of reckless savagery the gods despise. The same rage that drives his heroism threatens to tip him into hubris at any moment; and he gets away with it every time.

What makes Diomedes so compelling and so chilling is not that he lacks the ferocity of his father but that he’s better at hiding it. Tydeus is obvious in his rage; he makes no effort to conceal the monster he is. Diomedes, on the other hand, knows how to perform the role of the ideal hero: the noble warrior, the obedient champion of Athena

He’s not more virtuous—he’s just more strategic. He doesn’t kill less, or more cleanly, or even more justly. He kills with the same savage delight, but with the awareness to pull back just before he crosses a line that would cost him divine favor or mortal admiration. This ability to pretend, to wear a hero’s mask while feeding the same destructive instincts as Tydeus hiding the underlying madness behind that mask, makes Diomedes the more dangerous figure. Tydeus may have lost control; but Diomedes hides his control so well, it’s easy to forget what he’s controlling in the first place.

What makes this ironic is that Diomedes, despite all his bloodlust and near-madness, still (in some versions), gets the immortality that was denied to his father. Tydeus, who couldn’t contain his violent nature, ended up punished by the gods; he was denied the eternal glory he craved. Diomedes, on the other hand, dances on the edge of divine retribution, right there with him, and yet, he walks away with not just divine favor but immortality itself.

He’s not Tydeus 2.0.

He’s Tydeus 2.0 with better self-control

And honestly,

Truth be told when I started reading the Iliad, I can sense that there is something shimmering under the way Diomedes talks and behaves. The way he keeps charging although Apollo and then Zeus himself have already sent a warning. The way Homer describes him as the winter torrent that destroys everything on its path, contradicts a lot with his somewhat sensible way of speaking and expressing himself.

Tutorial mission would be going to Skyros to fetch Achilles, combat tutorial would be with Achilles as he goes to murder you and Odysseus

Epigoni are your default party option

The main quest is something cheesy like: surpass your father's shadow

TAKE MY MONEY!!!

But the tutorial is quite long because you are Tydeus. Three missions.

One.

During the normal tutorial spar 'click [button] to attack' your opponent insults you more every time you get to hit him. Initially you just reply to the insults (TYDEUS MUST BE FUNNY trust me it's important) Until you unlock something like 🐗'boar rage'🔥 and you pound him good.

He doesn't get up, people murmurs, and it turns out you accidentally killed him - twist of that videogame logic that you can beat the shit out of the tutorial dummy without consequences.

You are exiled from Calydon and beat up Polynices. If you win, he becomes a romanceable npc lmao (but I have a plan). Cutscene you two marry Deiphyle and Area and grow friends.

Two.

The peace mission in which you have to kill those 50 people, a tutorial for how to turn use speech options, sassing the king (again Tydeus MUST be funny), and on how the surrounding in your favor (climbing that peak) and melee fight - opposed to duel fight. Athena pops in to help (hold you back from fighting all of Thebes in 🐗boar rage🔥) you start to suspect this rage is not good because Athena, a goddess, has to put an effort to calm you down.

Soft scene with Polynices the wives and the kids.

Three.

Sieging Thebes. You are mortally wounded. 🐗Boar rage🔥 is off the charts and you attempt to devour your enemy - shown or implied depending on the rating. For drama we could have Tydeus hit Athena and her taking away her blessings.

Polynices dramatic breakdown over your corpse.

...

...

Only then you start with Diomedes, and everybody around you keeps talking about how great Tydeus us.

You ask, why the long tutorial? Because Tydeus was funny and, especially at the start, stronger and cooler than Diomedes. In most of his speech options he straight up talked over people, while Diomedes gets talked over until he just nods or grunts.

Your mother Deiphyle always tells you to make Tydeus proud and your sister protests that you should be careful to stay safe instead, but Deiphyle doesn't agree with that, or say anything.

You play as Diomedes, but since he doesn't talk at the start, you don't really get his pov. You, the player, are meant to mourn Tydeus like all the other npc. In fact when people go on about Tydeus you are with them, not with Diomedes that tries and fails to stir the conversation away. Maybe even a bit of a pushover at the very start, always obeying. When later in the game Diomedes will open up about how he always felt a stranger in his own life you should feel guilty because at the start you also preferred Tydeus to him.

Only Aegialeus listens to you so it's sadden when he dies lmao

The first moment we have Diomedes open up a bit it's when, before the Epigoni, he packs up and tries to run away. Thersander finds you and tells you how he feels like a shadow of his father doomed to walk into his footsteps with no life of his own. You still have no dialogue options, but Diomedes is looking up at Thersander with big eyes, and when Thersander tells you that you two can inherit the love, not only the burdens, you can stop him from kissing you... or not. Yes this is your cousins but this is ancient Greece.

This of course only if you romanced Polynices as Tydeus. If not, Thersander finds you trying to run away and takes your sword, telling you that if you run away you are a prince of Argos no more and you should get used to wielding the shovel instead, and obligatory mention of how Tydeus didn't run away from 50 people. When you join him the day after, he gives you your sword back.

The war missions are with one or more Epigoni each, so you get to know your squad leaving the stage to them and once again Diomedes behind it. They have each their own powers/skill that you can combine. They must be super fun and you are meant to love your pack of fatherless lovable disasters. Aegialus is the tired parent and Sthenelos is grumpy. Thersander is solemn and duty bound and Euryalus is a joker - that slays like the batman's joker.

The sons of Amphiaraus should be in their own dlc or they are going to hog the spotlight.

Then the triumph of the Epigoni, you think you overshadowed your father but the final cutscene is you and Thersander in a ceremony for Polynices and Tydeus again, because now they can rest easy. Perhaps you get to kiss again, but if that fades to black, the camera remains on a Tydeus and Polynices stone relief.

You kinda run away to Sparta to try and win Helen so you can live far away from Tydeus-land. You don't and when you come back you are forcibly married to a princess of Argos you leave the morning after the wedding to put grandpa Oineus back on the Calydonian throne, and once again people are always talking about Tydeus, who grew up here - maybe you get to play Tydeus in a few flashback scenes, still pressing on that nostalgia.

You are offered the throne but you skedaddle out of there, letting your aunt have it. Bonus points if I'm the throne offer they accidentally use the wrong name. "Tyd- ides, Diomedes, the throne is yours if you want it."

Then when the Troy expedition starts you join enthusiastically, happy to get away, all the way until Thersander dies in Mysia. You are crying over his grave and, both that you romanced him or not, when Sthenelos tries to comfort you, you burst into maniacal laughter and tell him that now the legacy of Tydeus is really dead. You unlock 🐺wolf rage🔥 because you finally believe you can be your own person (wolf because it's a pack animal and you grew up with the Epigoni, opposed to Tydeus the individualist).

Then you go back to crying over your fellow and possibly beloved. Behind Sthenelos, appears Athena.

End of the Tydeus storyline.

I also imagine Tydeus's combat mechanics (especially while 🐗boar rage🔥 is active) punish you for hesitation. so no patiently waiting for an energy bar to fill. to play him correctly your goal isn’t to conserve, you HAVE to deplete the meter. you must be feral when playing him. be relentless. gotta button-smash THAT BLADE. if you’re not constantly on the verge of overheating, you’re playing him wrong. that man is hyper.

And oh, when you get to play Diomedes, you wish Tydeus's son isn't the same man as his father because your hand is dying after all that button-mashing

And! Throughout the game Athena judges you, mostly it wouldn't be openly, that would be too gouche, instead you get bg3 style pop-ups 'Athena approves' and 'Athena dissaproves', and she has A LOT of opinions.

And to skip ahead, of course if you prove your worth by following her very particular wishes (by being an obedient god striking prodigy) you unlock one of the endings, the i-didn’t-give-ambrosia-to-your-father-because-it-belongs-to-you godhood ascension ending 

Odydio wips (I call them the curly-ass-duo, that's what their ship should be called)

Apostilos Totikas

Hes a greek actor from Athens

Thats Diomedes. To me.

With amber/grey eyes and longer & curlier hair that is

Do I know how Jorge intends Diomedes to sound? No.

Do I know the songs that Diomedes will sing? No.

Do I know anything about Ilium aside from it's based on The Iliad? No.