Dick/Jay - Bamfam - ramblings

also its literally been a major plot point multiple times across multiple decades that he looks and moves almost exactly like dick it is such a core part of their relationship and jasons character as a whole like i literally hate it im sorry guys

It is canon that Jason was essentially erased. For identity reasons Bruce changed him out of his Robin uniformed and cleared up the crime scene. The Joker can never be prosecuted through the courts for the death of Jason Todd because as far as the world knows, he had nothing to do with it.

The other big thing is that his tenure as Robin is essentially erased as well. As far as the world is concerned, Robin went from Dick to Tim, there was no one in the middle. There was no second Robin. Everything good Jason did in the suit is attributed to Tim or Dick. The Teen Titan’s he was meant to join at 16 went to Tim, the recognition went to Tim.

Jason Todd becomes a foot note. A cautionary tale to the few that remember he existed. He is their doomed from the beginning story. That’s all he is. He isn’t remembered. Not as Jason Todd anyway, and in the few ways his tenure as Robin is remembered, they aren’t about him.

Nothing about Jason’s memory is about him.

Jason is angry at inaction. He is angry not that the world didn’t stop because he died, but because everyone acts as though he was never there before. He was buried in a public cemetery next to the woman that got him killed, while Bruce had his stuff packed away and photos hidden. The only thing in the manor that memorialises him is that stupid case, and that’s not even for him. It’s a manifestation of Bruce and Alfred’s guilt.

Jason didn’t expect them to fall apart because of his death, he never wanted that. He wanted to be remembered. He wanted to matter and everything that Bruce and Alfred did after Jason died was the opposite.

There was four people at his funeral. Bruce, Alfred, the funeral director and commissioner Gordon. Four people.

What about Eddie Bloomberg? What about Rena? What about Dick Grayson, his brother, who Bruce never called and never tried to even contact? What about Danny Chase, who he was friends with during his brief run on the titans? What about Jericho, who he was also shown as friendly with? What about any of the adult heroes who had known Jason?

Jason’s anger has never been solely because the Joker is alive. It’s because he died, knowing he was going to die and with the belief that it might serve in causing things to change for the better. But it hasn’t. It didn’t change anything. His death became a footnote in the story of Batman, a little line here and there and nothing more.

When Jason comes back to life the Joker is walking in and out of Arkham like it’s his holiday home. He quite literally still mostly has free run and the cycle of bullshit from before just keeps continuing. People keep dying. He wanted change, and that isn’t wrong.

I’m not endorsing the way he went about everything, but I think it’s pretty fucking understandable why he did. Bruce never offered another solution beyond letting the Joker walk in and out of Arkham’s revolving door as he pleases. Bruce didn’t upgrade Arkham’s security, he didn’t get him into a higher level prison, he didn’t use the phantom zone which he could’ve just asked Clark about. There is no reason that Bruce couldn’t have come up with another way to have Joker secured that wouldn’t have ended with Joker dead.

But he doesn’t give Jason any other viable option. Going back to Arkham doesn’t solve anything and Jason knows that. Jason sees Joker dying as the only viable solution to keeping victims safe. To keeping himself safe.

He wanted Bruce to allow him to kill the Joker. Bruce didn’t have to be the one to pull the trigger, Jason would’ve. What he wanted was for Bruce to prove what he’d said all that time ago, to prove that for once Jason could matter more than the mission.

(He never had. Not when he was Robin. Not when it was Gloria Stanson. Not when Bruce thought he was suicidal and he’d run away and Alfred’s freaking out Bruce still went after the Joker. He still chose the mission. He did it with Dick, he did it with Jason, he did it with Tim and he’s even now doing it with Damian. It’s a cycle, one not specific to Jason at all)

(I know Joker had a nuclear weapon, but Nruce was already talking to the Justice League about the Joker. The JL were helping and there is no reason he couldn’t have asked one of them to locate Jason, or asked that they takeover and handle Joker while he tracks down Jason. Because he never went to Lebanon to find Jason, he went to find Joker and happened to run into Jason while there. He even tells Jason this to his face)

Bruce had, not long before Jason died, talked to him about Felipe and Jose Garzonas. I’m pretty sure anyone who’s looked into Jason as a character knows about The Diplomat’s Son. It’s extremely relevant to DITF and what leads to Jason leaving the manor. In it, after Felipe falls to his death (it’s left ambiguous but I subscribe most to the idea that while Jason didn’t push him, he didn’t try to save him either, but that’s a matter of personal opinion) Jose goes mad with grief. He is hysterical (not whatever Bruce was in DITF) and goes after Batman and Robin to avenge his son’s death.

Jose Garzonas proceeds to die because Bruce knocks a stack of cars onto him, that Bruce then proceeds to turn around and blame entirely on Jason. But I think what matters most here for Jason’s future actions, is what Bruce proceeds to say before the comic ends.

Bruce says that Jose Garzonas actions in trying to kill them to avenge his son are only what could be expected of a father losing his son. That any parent who lost a kid would want revenge on the reason that child was gone. I don’t have the direct quote but that’s essentially the gist of it. Bruce set the expectation for a parent avenging their child, he tells Jason that’s what he should expect.

Except, Bruce didn’t do that.

(Yes I hear your arguments about Clark stopping him and I raise you my recent post about Clark’s involvement in DITF)

"Snow" my gift for @Jehans made for the JayDickSecretSanta2k24

Dick, who's filling in for Bruce as Batman: I'll call him

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Hal: you've gained some muscles

Jason, dressed as Nightwing: I started working out

Hal: Damn. What's the routine cause I just saw you last week and you look completely different.

Jason: steroids

Dick, as batman: *chokes on coffee*

---

Superman: We might need someone who's good with guns, hm... Hey Nightwing you're in contact with redhood, right? Could you have him come?

Jason, as Nightwing: ... I don't see why not

---

Wonder woman: this security is an issue we need someone who can hack this system long enough for us to get pass

Superman: hey hood, any chance you can give red robin a call?

Tim, with 5 inches of padding, as redhood: on it

---

Hal: isn't robin usually with you all?

Flash: yeah we could use him with this one

Superman: Red Robin, would you call in Robin for us?

Dick Grayson is genuinely one of the greatest fighters in all of DC.

I know people have trouble believing this for some reason but a man who has defeated every single one of his enemies, other people’s enemies, and has consistently come out on top should have his abilities talked about a bit more because they’re amazing.

Let's start small to big. Firstly Donna talks about Nightwing's abilities.

When I read this I was confused by what she meant. Prowess means skill or expertise and that makes sense but Dick has a lot of power behind him though...

And then I realized she meant metaphysical power.

Dick isn't a magician. He can't run at supersonic speeds, throw buildings, speak to animals, communicate with the dark, fly above the clouds, bounce bullets off his chest (Oh, wait. He can do it off his ass instead never mind), turn into animals, or other amazing abilities. But his skill is so high that he is easily able to keep up with people who can.

M'gann, the white martian with extraordinary capabilities, tells Dick, "You are just a human, with no superpowers, yet you have consistently excelled throughout your career, despite being surrounded by godlike beings."

This is incredible.

We see Dick leading teams of superheroes and metas all the time and we take it for granted but we never acknowledge the immense power and skill he must have for him to be able to do this.

Repeatedly. Time after time. He outsmarts both his human allies and outfights his meta ones.

One of Dick’s greatest OP moments is when he takes down the entire Titans team -Gar, Raven, Donna, and Jason too when he hung around with them- single handedly. And when Jason put a gun to the back of his head in supposed victory, Dick opened his hand to let the golden bullets fall, gleaming in the light with the coldest line, “with these bullets?”

We all know how amazing Bruce is, but Dick is on Bruce's level.

No?

Okay, here's the evidence.

Dick has fought Azael in a sword fight to a standstill when Azael has beaten Bruce separately and Tim and Jason combined.

He has defeated Ra's in a sword fight and Ra's is one of the greatest swordsmen.

Sometimes he doesn't even need a sword to defeat a skilled swordsman.

He's a League of Assassins member and we all know that anyone from the League of Assassins is never just good. They're excellent. The entire fight Dick is looking for Blockbuster and he's so capable and good at fighting the entire scene was like watching Thanos flick Captain America away vibes. He's not even looking at him when he smashes his foot into Shrike's face!

Most importantly, he has defeated Deathstroke

The greatest thing about Dick is he is able to defeat Slade at the peak of Slade's abilities. Slade doesn't need to be weakened for Dick to win.

Here's where people has some hesitance accepting Dick's abilities.

"Bruce has defeated Slade but Dick has never been able to!"

He literally has in Dark Crisis but I'll give you the lead up.

Dick can easily disarm Slade.

He can predict Slade's moves ahead of time and properly counteract them.

He can go toe to toe with him and in one comic, they dance down a hallway, fighting, neither able to get the upper hand. The mercenary meta, considered by the US Government to be 1 of 2 greatest assassins (the other being Katana) isn't able to pin down and defeat a 20 year old despite his enhancements.

I left out the scene where Dick twisting Deathstroke's arm and smashing his face into a bedroom mirror despite being complete weaponless and in his civilian identity. No protection and no support. But it's another example of how Dick's poweress is much greater than people expect of him.

Of course there are panels where Dick has been defeated by Slade but Dick isn't 17/18 anymore. He isn't learning to fight without Batman hovering over his side.

Also there is a panel everyone references to when talking about Nigthwing losing to Deathstroke. This one.

sure. okay. whatever. BUT WHY WON'T YOU SHOW WHAT HAPPENS NEXT COWARDS?!?

THEY DANCE-FIGHT LIKE THEY'RE ENEMIES IN A BALLROOM ON OPPOSING SIDES BUT CAN'T AFFORD TO LET ANYONE FIND OUT.

THIS IS SOME HIGH LEVEL JAMES BOND-RED NOTICE-MISSION IMPOSSIBLE- TYPE SHIT.

"Close the hold, you morons! Close the--Guuk!"

That's Slade talking by the way. To his allies. Who do you think made him "GUUK!"?

And here they were evenly matched.

But Slade had to pull out bombs he had been saving for when other people came in order to defeat dICK AND HE STILL LOST BECAUSE DICK BESTED HIM.

Yup. Dick is just that good.

Nightwing defeated Bane

Before you go into saying something like "it was a holographic construction." What the fuck difference does that make? Does a holographic construction alter the strength used by the enemy, change their fighting style, phase through when fighting, act dumber than the real deal? No, right? The fact is Dick broke Bane's back the exact same manner that Bane broke Batman's. All those scenes of Bane punching Nightwing around? Let me remind you that the guy snuck up on Dick. The second time Dick underestimated Bane's powers before getting ready to put in real effort before Batman interfered to take Bane for himself.

All those amazing scenes of him defeating enemies that we've scoffed at recently? They're just a continuation of what already is written. It's not new or unbelievable, it's expected.

Here's my final point. Dick has defeated all of the Justice League's enemies in one go.

This is Batman/Superman comic where Kara gets infected so Dick as Batman sends her to the medbay while he tears down the Watchtower to save her. As in every single defense mechanism the Watchtower has, he demolishes it with his pure skill and abilities. Furthermore, the Watchtower defenses were enhanced by cyborg Superman to be lethal. To kill on sight.

Just. Phenomenal.

He did it! He defeated all of them and made it to the electronic controls he was aiming for.

Another thing I want to point is Dick's strength is greater than what people assume it to be.

He's the world's greatest acrobrat and has a build fitting of that but the strength he packs in his body is equal to that of a meta. Maybe it's because of how he only fights with metas and has teammates that are all metas but he has raised his striking power to equal that.

He shatters cyborg superman in one blow.

He can handle blows from meta humans in a way most others can't which suggests to me that he must've done some kind of training or have maybe increased pain tolerance or have the ability to backseat the pain so it won't affect his fighting. How many can take a hit and rise up the next second?

He's not metahuman. Batman must've done several tests because he also was amazed by robin Dick's poweress lol but really Dick is just extraordinary. Give him any enemy and he will garaunteed defeat them without using cheap tricks or surprise moves which is why he is one of the greatest. The only time people have gotten an upperhand on him is when he has been emotionally weakened. Emotionally. Imagine the absolute monster he would be if he controlled his emotions like Batman.

All credits go to @/⭐️banshee⭐️ on TikTok