IntusMortuus

And also like, zarlie as a ship is so unpopular like, nobody even knows what legends of tomorrow is. Its not smth i can just talk abt cause no irls have watched it and explaining their whole relationship and the implications of the whole zamaya/zarlie/zarlie2.0 relationship is something that you either get it or you dont. Its such an isolating experience dude but at the same time i feel so lucky to have known legends and to have seen zarlie from that perspective. Like, its been 10 years since legends came out (like it literally came out in 2016 lmao) and ive known thousands of different stories since then, thru books, tv shows, films, comics etc., and i still find myself thinking abt this tiny little uncanon ship of a forgotten superhero show.

I keep seeing vids and posts of people saying she was childish for becoming evil over an argument and that it made no sense for her to suddenly trust Max when she repeatedly dismissed him. But the thing is, neither of those complaints are true!

We literally all watched Max make a device that would turn Chloe evil, him give her said device, and then she became evil! Nowhere in the song or dialogue or movements is it conveyed that he told her it would make her evil. Plus if she was just gonna turn evil over an argument she would’ve turned evil right after, no device or Max needed.

Now, why did she even trust Max to put it on? Simple, she didn’t. She didn’t suddenly trust max after not trusting him the entire movie- she was manipulated. She told Red she felt like she was drowning, was insulted by her friend, was in a new universe where her life and family is different, and was alone. Max saw that and immediately started using her emotions to manipulate her into putting it on. At that point she felt like she lost everything, she literally says to him “A part of me is scared but I’ve got nothing else to lose”

Also he literally only told her that he wanted to be her friend and that this device is pretty and he made it to cheer her up, nothing in that gives “this is gonna make you evil so you fight Red” she didn’t even know the he knew about the pocket watch at this time.

The movie deff has stuff to complain about, I complained about it in other posts. But plz I feel like so many of the complaints are either comparing it to D1-3 when we’re in a completely different trilogy AND timeline, or saying stuff that’s either never done in the movie, complaining about stuff that was already explained, or are completely misunderstanding basic scenes and dynamics.

@its-not-princess-just-red

Neverland is cool. I do want to see some drama.

Like, we know why all of the main cast matters to Red, but the movie doesn’t provide enough evidence to show what Red means to these characters.

(not gonna spend time explaining all of them, bc my main point is Chloe lol)

For Chloe, I think it’s a little odd that they make it feel like Red matters to her for the same reasons she matters to Red, when I feel like that shouldn’t be entirely true.

In other words, did Chloe have any other friends before Red? (genuinely asking😭)

Whether she did or didn’t, the movie did not explore that at all. We have no idea where Chloe’s coming from when she starts to feel casted aside by Red, and then eventually choose evil. Chloe’s past friendships (or lack there of) could have really helped add depth to her character.

If she did have friends before Red, then could have used that to explained why she was so upset with Red in Wonderland. It also would’ve opened up a lot more opportunities for Red and Chloe to have stronger contrast in their characters. With Chloe knowing how to be a friend and Red not given her upbringing.

Personally though, I think a way more interesting route would’ve been to have it where Chloe didn’t have any friends before, but for a different reason than Red. Red was isolated from the world, but maybe Chloe’s strict rule-follower attitude made people not want to be around her.

The scene where Chloe basically asks Red if they’re friends at the beginning would’ve been the PERFECT opportunity to confirm this too

LIKE,

Red: “Aw, Chlo, are you… asking to be friends? You’re such an HK.”

Chloe(a little embarrassed): “Well I… I never had any real friends before… I’ve had tea parties and balls with others princess, sure, but, most of them think I’m “no fun” or “too strict with rules.” I can tell most of them only talk to me to be polite…”

Red: “Weird. I usually think everyone else is no fun. But, you helped me get a mom who loves me, Chloe. That makes you pretty cool in my book.”

Chloe: “…Thanks, Red.”

THATS ALL IT IT WOULD’VE TOOK

Would’ve made Chloe’s betrayal, and song, hit way harder. Like imagine Chloe’s this nice girl who does what she’s told and is kind to others, who’s been TRYING to find friends. But all she’s gotten are people who are fake, toxic, or don’t stick around. And then, when she finally feels like she has a “true best friend,” she’s betrayed in ways she both feared (being pushed asides) and didn’t realize could happen (being used as live bait)

Red: *wants love*

Red: *gets love*

first, we see pink & chloe's conversation about red- ("it's so hard to be her sister sometimes." "it's hard to be her friend." "do you think red knows that?" "i don't know, pink.")

and then, exactly 17 minutes later into the movie, we see chessie taunting red with voices replaying her failures and insecurities- specifically. the voice emphasizing that she's "hard to love".

so. "do you think red knows that-" Yes. yes actually i think she is absolutely tormenting herself with the ever-present thought of it actually-

red, who's been raised believing that she's hard to love. red, who opened an entire song in "rise of red" with lyrics about how she's desperately searching for a flicker of love for her in her mother's eyes, about how all she was is a girl reaching out for her mother's love and being denied over and over.

and now there are people who love her, but- she doesn't know what to do with that. she never learned how to handle that.

and she can see what she's doing- well. she can technically see that she's hurting chloe and pink by constantly brushing them aside, but. she's not really seeing it. because she still hasn't fully processed that they love her, they care about her, the things she says and does matter to them-

she's not used to that. so- she's not paying much attention, because she doesn't think anyone else is paying much attention either.

and- she's getting along pretty well with everyone around her now. everyone's looking to her as they go through wonderland- but without the shadow of a looming blade that always used to hang over attention like that. she's something she never was before. she's someone who didn't go through her own childhood- and she wants to keep it that way.

so chloe gets brushed aside. (chloe knows, she knows, she knows what red's like, what she's actually like, knows that this life wasn't actually hers. chloe's the one link to what everything was like before- and that idea is partially a comfort, but partially a threat. because- chloe knows who she really is, and- that's slightly terrifying, if she thinks about it for too long.)

so pink gets brushed aside. (pink doesn't know, she doesn't know- she's the clearest distinction between timelines, she's someone this version of red is supposed to know and love- and red doesn't know her. and the dread of letting something drop there, of letting something slip- pink is the one person she won't always be able to bluff her way through interacting with. because- pink knows who she's supposed to be, and- that's slightly terrifying, if she thinks about it for too long.)

and it's hurting pink and chloe, but- red doesn't fully process that for a while. because she's not looking for that, she's not expecting that- how much could they possibly care about the attention she's paying to them?

she just met pink- (but she's known you and looked up to you her whole life, she loves you, you're hurting her-)

and she's only known chloe a few days- (but she's lonely and you're the only somewhat steady thing in her life right now, she loves you, you're hurting her-)

well. she's hard to love, she knows that. always has been. always will be. (so. might as well just let it happen-) (…right?)

so. that's my concept about red's mindset during the movie. <3