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Some time ago, I remember seeing a post where someone wrote that they saw Wicked onstage just once and couldn't stand it because of its "internalized misogyny."

I suppose they said "internalized" because the musical's writer Winnie Holzman is a woman, even though the original novel's author Gregory Maguire and musical's composer/lyricist Stephen Schwartz are men.

That's an accusation I've never seen aimed at this musical before. Especially because it's such a female-centric musical, with a predominantly female following, and I had always seen it celebrated as a "girl power" musical in the past.

So I thought I thought I would analyze the ways that Wicked can both be seen as problematic and as progressive from a gender perspective.

This is based entirely on the stage musical, since we don't know yet if Wicked: For Good will change some of these details or not.

(Spoilers below for anyone who's only seen the first movie.)

These are the ways that I suppose the musical can be accused of "internalized misogyny":

*A case can be made that Elphaba is a classic "not like other girls" heroine, while Glinda's portrayal shows bias against girly girls. Of the two leading ladies, the "ugly," plainly-dressed, semi-tomboyish, introverted outcast is of course the heroine, whom the audience is meant to identify with and see as superior to the popular crowd that rejects her. Meanwhile, the stylish, pink-wearing, sociable, ultra-feminine beauty is portrayed as a silly, vain airhead (at least when it comes to book smarts), whom the audience is meant to laugh at, as well as a self-centered, manipulative "mean girl" and later a sell-out to a fascist government, in need of a redemption arc. Even though Glinda is sympathetic too, she's framed less positively than Elphaba.

*In the original Oz books and the 1939 film, Glinda is a powerful, wise matriarchal figure, independent of the Wizard or any other man, whose magic and advice never fail, and who is blatantly more powerful than the Witch of the West. The fact that she's unabashedly feminine, and that in the film she has a cute flutey voice and wears a sparkly pink gown, does nothing to diminish her stature. Yet as mentioned above, Wicked reduces her to a silly, vain, self-centered popular girl, who later becomes a figurehead for the Wizard and is under his thumb until the end, and who isn't actually good at magic either, unlike the naturally powerful and talented Elphaba.

*Yet in some ways, despite all of the above, the show still privileges the stylish blonde girly girl at the plain outcast heroine's expense. Glinda is the sparkly, funny, show-stealing role, who has the more transformative character arc too, and the show's fandom is all too prone to fixating on Glinda and using Elphaba as basically just a prop for her. The creative team has described how hard it was to ensure that Elphaba wasn't overshadowed by Glinda in her own show, and it's debatable if they succeeded or not.

*Elphaba and Glinda are pitted against each other in a love triangle. A love triangle that doesn't exist either in Gregory Maguire's novel or, God forbid, in The Wizard of Oz. It would have been easy for their falling out to happen without Fiyero as a factor: after all, Elphaba devotes her life to rebelling against the Wizard, while Glinda devotes hers to serving him and upholding everything Elphaba is against. That would have been enough to change them (temporarily) from best friends into the enemies we see in The Wizard of Oz. But no, it couldn't be "just" that, it had to be a clichéd fight over a man.

*Said love triangle leads to a catfight. The scene could still have been effective with just an emotionally brutal verbal altercation, but no, it has to devolve into slapping and physically attacking each other.

*The ultimate reason why Elphaba decides to become truly wicked is because she (seemingly) loses her man. Granted, she has a long list of other traumas too, not the least of which are her sister's death and Glinda's betrayal, both just minutes before Fiyero is captured. But it's Fiyero whom she expresses the most anguish over and who gets the most emphasis in "No Good Deed."

*Likewise, Nessarose's chief reason for becoming the tyrannical Wicked Witch of the East is her unrequited love for a man. (And her bitterness about her disability, which she thinks is why Boq doesn't love her, but that's another issue.)

*Both of the two main supporting females, Nessarose and Madame Morrible, ultimately become villains. Despite being framed at first as allies to Elphaba, respectively her beloved sister and her older female mentor who nurtures her gift of magic, they both turn out to be antagonists instead.

*The most purely evil character is the older woman. The Wizard is granted some audience sympathy, and is semi-redeemed in the end when he willingly goes into exile in grief and guilt over Elphaba. But Madame Morrible is just a ruthless villain to be dragged off to prison in the end.

And yet...

*It's a musical centered around two female characters. Both are three-dimensional characters, both are flawed yet sympathetic, both are strong-willed, ambitious, and active, and both go through immense character development.

*The two heroines' most important relationship is with each other. Whether you view their bond as platonic, romantic, or anywhere in between, the musical revolves around it. Even though they have a mutual male love interest, and he is important, their relationship with each other is much more central than either of their respective relationships with him.

*Neither Elphaba nor Glinda's overarching motives or goals revolve around romance. For both of them, their feelings for Fiyero are just one aspect of their lives and character arcs, amid much bigger desires and ambitions, which are often socio-political in nature.

*Elphaba is a validation of misfit women. The original Wicked Witch of the West is "ugly," aggressive, and unladylike, and in the 1939 film she wears stark black clothes and has an odd skin color and black hair; meanwhile, Glinda is beautiful, gentle, and elegant, with a light-colored gown, light skin, and light hair. All these qualities code the Wicked Witch as a "bad woman" and Glinda as a "good woman." But Wicked subverts those stereotypes. Elphaba is a character whom any woman or girl who's ever been made to feel "wrong" (whether because they're women of color, disabled, neurodivergent, LGBT+, gender non-conforming, or just "too" angry and assertive) can identify with. Say what you will about the "not like other girls" trope, but it is progressive and feminist to validate that type of heroine. And to portray Glinda as a likable yet deeply flawed character, whose popularity and reputation for "goodness" stem mainly from her conventional blonde beauty and ability to charm, is also progressive. It forces people to rethink their concepts of a "good woman."

*Yet the plot arguably isn't "anti girly girl" either. Glinda is sympathetic, her friendship with Elphaba is true, and she goes through enormous growth without sacrificing any of her femininity. And as her fans so eagerly point out, (a) she's much smarter than she seems at first, and (b) in many ways, she's right all along. Elphaba's rebellion fails, while Glinda is the one who saves Oz from the Wizard in the end, precisely because she gains power within the system by using her ladylike charm and social graces, and by using "soft power" rather than Elphaba's aggressive "hard power." (Although unlike some Glinda fans, I don't actually think the show's intended message is, "conform to the system and use charm, grace, and soft power.”) And while Elphaba's actions are more noble on the surface, her motives are arguably just as selfish as Glinda's: in "No Good Deed," she admits to herself that at heart, she might have cared less about doing good than getting attention, and in the end she does what’s best for Oz by giving up her dreams of glory and entrusting her cause to Glinda. Both heroines are flawed, yet in the end they both change for the better, and they rely on each other. Their bond subverts every attempt to pit "good women" and "bad women" against each other.

*In Winnie Holzman’s own words, the whole plot is about young women “standing up to power.” Not patriarchal power, specifically, but it still revolves around Elphaba seeing the injustice and inequality in her society and fighting to change it. And though she’s defeated, she inspires Glinda to take up her cause and successfully oust the oppressors from power. Even though it’s not about gender issues, this central theme is still very applicable to feminism.

*The love triangle isn't just "Elphaba and Glinda fight over a man." Despite her secret love for Fiyero, Elphaba never resents Glinda for being his girlfriend or lets it interfere with their friendship. There's no rivalry over him until he leaves Glinda for Elphaba. And when the "catfight" finally happens, it's really only Glinda whose anger is about the love triangle. For Elphaba (even though she does rub Fiyero's love for her in Glinda's face, which leads to Glinda slapping her), the fight is about the fact that Glinda has spent years upholding the Wizard's corrupt government, and now, when said government has obviously murdered Elphaba's sister, she finds Glinda blithely passing it off as an accident and giving Nessarose's shoes to a stranger.

(And as Gelphie shippers will point out, depending on how the actresses play it, Glinda is arguably more upset about Elphaba choosing Fiyero over herself – either in a platonic "breaking the bestie code" way or in a romantic way – than about losing Fiyero, and even Elphaba's gloating about Fiyero's love for her can be read not just as "He loves me and not you," but also "He loves me more than you ever did – he joined me, you abandoned me." Both of those readings are subtext far below the surface, though.)

*Fiyero's role as Elphaba's love interest mainly consists of helping and supporting her, both in actions and emotionally. Nor does he ever dominate Glinda during their ill-fated time as a couple. He never tries to be in charge of either lady, but serves as their partner, support, sometimes conscience, and confidant, like a typical female love interest to a male protagonist.

*Besides the two leads, the show also has two other prominent and powerful female characters, Nessarose and Madame Morrible. And while Madame Morrible is ultimately a straightforward villain, Nessarose is yet another complex character, with a journey from an innocent young girl to a dark and tragic tyrannical leader. Nor is her dark spiral caused just by unrequited love and her disability, but by her toxic upbringing by her father.

*The musical ends with a woman, Glinda, as the new head of state in place of the former corrupt male ruler, using life lessons she learned from another woman, Elphaba, to guide her in that role.

I drew dark fairy Briar which means I also gotta draw evil queen Apple, who is just miserable for most of Legacies Undone, my poor girl 🍎❤️‍🩹

And the fun thing is how the two songs that Stephen Schwartz added for the movie (No Place Like Home and Girl In The Bubble) are the exact opposite of this. Elphaba sings to a crowd in the middle of it, which she usually never does. And Glinda sings all alone in an empty space.