Dog Foster

I was accepted into a service dog program to help with some chronic medical issues (intense migraines with neurological symptoms, as well as unrelated nerve issues in my arms). I think I have an idea of what to look for in terms of confirming the program is ethical, but would love advice. They:

1. Health test

2. Have the dog do CGC and CGCA. They also say they do a public access test and have you redo it every two years.

3. Match you to a dog.

4. Use balanced training based on the dog in question.

5. Will replace the dog if it washes. They have washed dogs based on both health and temperament which I think is a good sign.

Has anyone gotten a program dog? Anything else I should look out for? Or for people who have service dogs anything that seems to be missing from above?

Balanced dog training is a massive red flag. It usually means the use of a ton of aversives, like shock and prong collars. Most service dog programs and private trainers I’ve encountered use the LIMA (least intrusive, minimal aversive) philosophy. Balanced trainers pretty much always use punishment, LIMA trainers use it as a last resort.

Is the program ADI accredited? I have plenty of issues with ADI, but they do guarantee a level of dog welfare, and that you will receive a dog with a very high standard of training. The training guarantee isn't something you can get anywhere else. 

Point by point (I used a lot of questions, but you don’t need to tell me the answers, it is just for you to think about):

What is on the health test, what are they testing for? At what thresholds do they wash a dog?

What is on the public access test? That is the important part. I don’t know of any programs that use the CGC because it is basically just throwing money at the (dubiously ethical) American Kennel Club, who owns the test. A knowledgeable trainer should be able to assess where a dog is at without the CGC.

At what point in the dog's training do they match you with the dog? I was matched just before placement, which I ended up liking because my dog’s adult personality had developed and so it was definitely the right fit. If a program matches early, they can train more specifically to the client’s lifestyle, but your dog might wash and they might end up being only an okay fit temperament and energy level wise. There is no right or wrong answer here.

Addressed above

Every program washes dogs. You make it sound like they will replace the dog if it washes post-placement (or maybe they just match you early in training)?

Personally, I would never go with a program that uses shelter dogs, even though it is a very sweet and inspiring concept in theory. A shelter dog will either be placed older than a program bred dog would be (which means a shorter working life, or it will receive less training. A shelter dog has missed out on key pieces of socialization which cannot be worked through as well later in life. My program will play scary noises for puppies when they are a few days old, because they don’t have the same fear response at that age, and are less likely to be scared of those noises later. Being in an overwhelming environment with a dog, I will sometimes remember that dogs can be dangerous, and I think that would be a much harder thought to deal with if I had a shelter dog with an unknown trauma history. Lastly, you can’t get an accurate temperament test at a shelter because being in a shelter changes dogs’ behavior so much (remember the 3-3-3 rule).

Also, make sure you have an exact list of what tasks your dog will be trained for. This is just something I wish I had been clearer on. If they are guaranteeing alerts for neurological stuff, I would be a little dubious. 

They do embark and then health test for breed specific health issues from there. So it is dependent on the breed.

They match a couple months before placement so that the dog’s personality has developed but to still allow customizing tasks. And yes if the dog washes early due to health or behavior issues post-matching or placement they will replace the dog.

I do understand the risks I’m taking with a shelter/rehomed dog! As long as the program is reputable and ethical I am willing to take the risks (though I have nothing against well bred dogs of course, and would also recommend that to a friend/stranger myself). I will say this program will usually get the dogs as puppies so the working life length is less of a concern.

And yes I have a list of tasks and they are not guaranteeing a migraine alert if that is what you are asking - I’m also personally aware it is difficult to train and not all dogs can do it.

tags by @girlhorse

I made this post a while ago, and it wasn’t really directed to shelter talk as much, but imo the way shelters operate with bully breeds is a kind of trickle down from the things I was discussing in this post. There's also the fact being that a lot of rescue/shelter community issues that we're seeing rn is due to obfuscating things like breed typical behavior, serious behavioral issues etc. And Pit Bulls are right smack in the middle of this because of their prevalence in shelters and in America in general.

And this is the reason I don't really love answering these types of questions, because people tend to get very defensive the second someone tells them they think it's a bad idea.

The implication that I have not dealt with harassment, access challenges, and targetted breed discrimination as a result of my breed choice is laughable. Creed had kids run up and grab him by the nub and around the neck. I was literally laid out on a bench in the middle of a fainting episode with him tied to me and a woman came up and grabbed him and kissed all over his face. I had people swat at and kick him. I had to fix a fear of shopping carts because people kept ramming him on purpose. I had people run away screaming and jump over tables and counters as we walked into the room. I can't tell you how many times I had to tell people to stop reaching for him and calling him. I can't tell you how many times people got angry and invasive just seeing me with him. I can't tell you how many people told me to my face that they'd shoot him or that they were calling Animal Control to have him taken from me.

If you don't want to hear it, don't ask. I told you my opinion. Clearly it's not what you wanted to hear.

First: I really don't think Jaz was trying to be a dick about this. I think he was trying to be straight forward, and matter-of-fact, which I think many of us in the community (service dog, sport dog, working dog, queer, and otherwise) develop in order to best communicate with those around us. [Sidebar] In my personal experience, those that are out there that might be misguided or just a little spoiled can sometimes be redirected or corrected if you are a little point blank about your stance. Whatever that is, be it about cropped ears, a working dog, your sexuality or pronouns or what is or isn't up for discussion. There are times you get a better response, or a more respectful response, if you are clear on where you stand.

I would love to tell you "scary dog privilege" exists. I would. And in a small way, it very well might. If people are scared of dogs, or of a certain breed, they might avoid you. But guess what? The majority? You're not gonna be that, err, fortunate? with. There are dozens, hundreds, thousands of assholes that are going to mess with you regardless of whether you have a service dog or not, regardless of what your service dog *is*, in terms of breed or size, etc etc. Scary dog privilege is not nearly as common as the inverse, which might just be 'entitled public' privilege.

People feel entitled, to your personage or your time or your dog's attention. I might get some flack for this but I liken this to the issues pregnant women have with their bellies. Do I understand why complete strangers feel they have the right to touch a pregnant woman's stomach? No. No I do fucking not. Do I see it? Way too goddamn often. Same with a Service Dog. You can have 'Do Not Pet' till the cows come home. If that person's got no boundaries, they're gonna try it. So that means many of us need to develop the ability and the willingness to advocate for our dog. "No, you can't touch him, he's working. No, you can't call him. No, don't approach us." We have to be PROACTIVE about this. You have to keep one eye on your dog, and one eye on the public. If there's someone that's constantly lingering in your space, or repeatedly returning, they might be considering an approach. You'll need to invest more attention, make sure they don't approach. Put yourself between your dog and them, put your dog in a down or a sit in a corner so they can't be reached, etc. To be honest, it can be an outright pain in the ass. It can be stressful, it can be dangerous. These are things to think about.

In addition to being a competitor and an SD handler I am a trainer. I have physically been training my working SD, and another of our working breed dogs, in public. I have had people approach the dogs in a sit, tucked out of the way, and push their hands into a dog's face in an attempt to get the dog to bite. Why? Then they can sue. It's apparently one of those new bullshit schemes floating around. So rarely do I want people to approach my dogs. The dogs in question? A Doberman. A Malinois. No SDP here, friends.

You get people that follow you around the store going on and on about how scared they are of the breed. But they're following you. They want a chance to pull something. You as the handler have to keep an eye on them to make sure they don't, they can't. Sometimes this means you abandon the shopping trip, sometimes this means that even with a Service Dog you need a Service Human. It sucks.

Did less people touch him than with a former friend with a service poodle? Yes, absolutely, the curse of the cute fluffy dog of a Known Friendly Breed is alive and well. But, on the flip side, I have walked into businesses with said friend and poodle and my doberman and been told that the poodle is fine but I can't bring my dobe. I've had people demand to see ceritifications and paperwork because my dog is not reeeeeeallyyyyy a service dog due to his breed.

As always, I think it is less "privilege" and more "it sucks in a different way".

Something else that informs my opinion is that I actually have friends who have tried it with guardian breeds. With dobes, corsos, gsds, mals. You know what they all said to me? Their next dogs would not be guardian breeds because it actually made their paranoia *worse* because of these exact problems. They felt like they'd painted a target on their backs and it made confrontations that much more detrimental to their mental health. They felt like they'd taken several steps backwards in their progress, and it all hooked into having to be so mindful and having to constantly advocate for themselves and their dogs to any potential danger.

So when I say I think it's not a good idea, it's not even my own preferences talking. I'm talking from the perspective of someone who has had a doberman service dog for other disabilities, and from the perspective of someone with friends who tried and said no it was a bad idea and then got themselves a different breed. Even if their current dogs are successful, the negatives often outweighed the positives.