fan of Batgirl and Huntress and Signal and and Wonder Woman, corruption comes from lack of connection to other people, greatest heroes are ones who regularly help and listen to individuals and community groups
If anyone is interested in creating a group project based on these analyses, I have editable versions. I'm interested in if people want to add characters before I get to them personally, have a different analysis, or disagree with how I divide versions of the characters. If someone wants to discuss pre-Flashpoint and post-Flashpoint versions of Cassandra Cain, or combined pre and post-Crisis versions of Bruce Wayne and Kal-El and other characters, that would interest me. They're at:
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My biggest issue with Fanon Jason is that there are several characters with his traits, but because they’re not white dudes they don’t get as much attention
This is Catwoman about a year before Jason coming back as Red Hood. If you want a character who wants to protect sex workers and kids in low income areas, it’s Catwoman
Huntress has guns and kills, and the stuff with her conflicting with various Bats is really interesting (I really liked the Huntress/Spoiler: Blunt Trauma comic, as well as her other stuff in No Man’s Land)
Orpheus (Gavin King) wasn’t around for long, but he’s really interesting. He’s very anti-racism, and the comics about him directly show topics like racial profiling and police brutality. Again, someone who specifically protects people in low income areas, working in ways Batman can’t.
Cass' first language is body language and specifically fighting. Batgirl (2000) #28, Batgirl (2000) #50, and Detective Comics #796 show that she's best at connecting with people and understanding them when fighting them or sparring with them. I also think that helping mental health groups, instead of relying on Arkham as Gotham's only place, would be something she'd consider important.
Gotham is a stressful place to live with lots of mental health problems and threats. Cass has already been shown teaching people how to defend themselves in Batgirl (2024) #2 and DCeased: Unkillables #2. Free self-defense classes run by Cass to help people defend themselves without needing corrupt police or the bats is something she'd think of and love. Seeing the people she's teaching speaking her native language would also allow her to observe their feelings in more depth than she usually manages. She's been in Gotham for years at this point and healing so she has more understanding of people than she did when she arrived in Gotham and first became Batgirl. I have a hard time believing that she wouldn't notice people who are hurting and need help with their mental health. After noticing multiple people who need help, she could easily get help from Duke and Steph, who are better with words and community than she is, so that her self-defense classes would also be a free mental health clinic. Duke and Steph would also help out with the self-defense classes when they have time.
Ultimately, there would be free self-defense classes plus emotional comfort and advice for problems in peoples' lives provided by class and, in the same building, a free mental health clinic run by Duke and Steph with patients referred by Cass noticing people who need more help than she's able to offer. This would be a way to actually help people who are hurting instead of sending them to Arkham Asylum/Arkham Tower.
The main question I have is whether Cass would teach the classes as a civilian or as Batgirl. Teaching them as Cass would require her to hide her full fighting skills and observancy of body language as Batgirl is well-known for those abilities. That would lessen her ability to fully teach people and help out, when she defines herself by how much help she can provide people, so I could see her teaching as Batgirl in order to not have to hide her skills while protecting her family's secret identities. That would annoy Duke, and especially Steph, as they'd have to be Signal and Batgirl at the clinic. It's also possible that she'd teach as Cass and try to protect her family's secrets.
It feels like most Batfam followers only know of Cass for her interest in ballet and don't have any idea how she'd help people outside of crime fighting and punching people. The newest episode of Batman: Wayne Family Adventures has Cass and Duke and Harper and Jason and Steph suggesting ways to help people using money stolen from the Penguin with Cass being the only kid not suggesting anything. When I pointed that out, the only response from WFA fans was that she'd suggest funding ballet groups and arts, like corrupt and selfish billionaires in the US, instead of anything that actually helps people.
Babs’ friends from the Arkham Center for Independence (ACI) in The Oracle Code, Yeong and Issy <3 Yeong has meningitis and Issy suffered a spinal cord injury!
Their story with Babs below the cut~
We first meet them when they show up at Babs’ door, as they live in the same wing as Barbara and want to introduce themselves and offer friendship to her, as she’d just moved in.
Of course this entire transition and new life are hard for Babs, and since she’s already hurt about her friends from before her accident ghosting her, she decides to keep them at arms length at first. She pretends she can’t attend Yeong’s basketball game, which hurts Yeong’s feelings and she snaps at Barbara, calling out her behavior.
Later, Yeong and Issy show up at Bab’s room to talk. They have a really good convo here, where they encourage Babs to let herself make friends without worrying about them leaving, and to really get involved with things at the ACI to help her adjust to her new life — and to realize how much she can still do.
Yeong’s favorite activity, wheelchair basketball, is the perfect example of this — and Yeong’s game really cheers Babs up. After this, she stops pushing them away and they really become friends <3
When Ben, Bab’s friend from the GCPD that “ghosted” her after she moved into the ACI, comes to make up with Babs and bring her info she can’t access from the Center, Yeong and Issy stand by to make sure everything’s good and that Babs is okay <3
When Babs’ other friend in the Center goes missing, she asks Yeong and Issy for help — and they agree instantly, which throws Babs off completely.
Yeong and Issy help Babs find the secret entrance to a lab underground where they’re testing on patients to “cure” disabilities. They all find a bunch of their friends who had allegedly “left” or “graduated” from the Center there, all kids who didn’t have families or guardians to notice their absence.
All the “patients” are stuck in beds, too weak from the experiments to move. Being stuck in a hospital bed reminds Babs of her own time in one right after her accident happened, which causes her to have a panic attack. Luckily, Yeong and Issy are there to help her out of it.
Yeong finds one of the girls she and Issy remember, Shanta, and their presence is enough to wake her up. They ask what was happening down here, and she explains the experimental therapy the doctors have been doing to them to “cure” their disabilities. However, she says that she hasn’t improved at all, and is actually in pain from the “treatment” — this is when one of the doctors introduced earlier in the book as their seemingly nice physical therapist shows up, outing himself as a nut job that is dead set on “fixing” them.
Because they’ve seen too much he pulls a gun on them and forces them out of the room. Luckily, he also deeply underestimates them, so he just locks them in a closet, thinking that’ll be good enough. But Babs is a master at “old-school hacking,” aka lock-picking.
They break out just in time to surprise attack the doctor and get back Babs’ phone so she can call her dad. Together, the three of them take down the bad guys and free the prisoners of the underground lab~!
After the lab is exposed, Gotham General takes over the ACI and lets the current patients stay — so Yeong, Issy and Babs have plenty of adventures ahead of them ~ love this trio so much 💕
It feels like that's because most Batfamily stories are actually discussing Bruce and using the Batkids to discuss how he changes and grows. Only a tiny minority of Batman fans actually care about the kids as independent characters separate from Batman. Damian's family only gets discussed through the lens of Talia's impact on Bruce.
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Absolute Catwoman #2 includes Selina mentioning that there's something familiar about Cass. That may mean that they have met but they weren't close.
The ending of the issue, showing Cass and Shiva looking at the map with the Yarn's location, and the information about the Yarn has me thinking anew about what could be coming. I'll be surprised if the next couple issues don't focus on Selina and Shiva both searching for the Yarn, helped by the Calicoes and Cass respectively. During the search, it's safe to say that there will be more fights, both the Calicoes versus the League of Shadows and Selina versus Cass. As Selina encounters Cass repeatedly, she may eventually realize what's familiar about Cass. Hopefully, as Cass observes Helena and Vic, she'll eventually start showing her dislike of seeing people hurt.
It's possible that the main conflict will be Selina and Shiva competing over what reality they want to create using the Yarn. Issue 2 ends with Selina thinking of the idea of creating a new story unlike the one she's locked into as she wants to regain her freedom though she's complaining that her friendship with the Calicoes has made her less independent. Shiva probably wants to undo the Joker's massacre of the League of Assassins. That would fit with her not being a hero who wants to help people but also not being a villain who wants to harm the world. Cass would agree with that goal and they probably both hate the Joker. Vic is obviously against anyone using the Yarn, considering any new reality to be dangerous.
The finale could be the Yarn activating and Selina and Shiva competing over what reality to create. The Calicoes, including Holly who has probably been rescued by then, could be trying to convince Selina to accept the current reality and their friendship with her. Cass' loyalty is hard to break and right now, she's loyal to her mother. In mainline, she's extremely loyal to Batman and trusts his goals even when she disagrees with him which causes headaches for her friendship with Steph. It took committing murder, causing immense emotional pain for Faizul in the process, to cause her to abandon her father. If Cass notices that Selina and the Calicoes are hurt badly by what Shiva wants and what she's been doing and if Shiva is being purposefully cruel to them, that could be enough to cause her to side with the Calicoes instead of her mother. Cass possibly would try to control the Yarn herself and try to create a reality where Selina and the Calicoes both get what they want and she never met Selina, possibly even never existing in the first place as she needs to make up for the pain she's caused them. I'm assuming that Selina would be the person who keeps Cass from erasing herself. Afterwards, she would need a mission to help her make up for her sins and handle her guilt complex, as with mainline Cass.
Asian women are the strongest characters in DC and I don't just mean Cass and Shiva I mean in general if you exist as a nonwhite female character there's a 90% chance that DC is going to pull some weird racist sexualised shit and destroy your character to prop up some white man or boy due to the writer's personal fantasy. And the fans will be like wow that character is so evil for throwing themselves at this man and seducing him because they definitely have agency and aren't written that way by a male writer who views it as a power fantasy.
And sometimes they're ocs created solely to be these racist sexual caricatures and sometimes they're established characters who get massacred to become these racist sexual caricatures but if you're an Asian woman in a DC comic it's most likely going to happen to you and it'll be wrapped up in like 5 different layers of orientalism where the writer thinks you're evil and naturally inclined to be hypersexual due to being an Asian woman and obviously the virtuous white man can't give in to your temptations but the writer totally thinks it's hot so he'll write you coming onto him anyways.
Best case scenario you have a solid fanbase and clearly defined previously established character that you end up like Cass where you're heavily derailed as a character by the racist sexist bullshit but fight your way back to being treated with respect again. Worst case scenario is either being one of the ocs that only exists in the context of this terrible writing so anything interesting that exists within your character will barely ever be addressed by anyone OR you get character assassinated so badly they're still trying to put the pieces back together. If any white male DC character went through what happened to Talia Al Ghul the uproar would define DC for years. It's happening over at marvel with spiderman on like a 10th of the scale. Batman and his fanbase would not last five seconds if he was in their shoes like the fact that some of the best characters from that racist comics company are Asian women is a fucking miracle given all the odds that are stacked against them since day one of character conception.
How would you describe Batman and Huntress’ relationship and how it’s changed over the years?
Their relationship is one of the best ones I’ve seen in comics. It’s very nicely written and it starts with them not trusting each other that much and pretty much always getting in the way of each other. They both want to help, but they have different ways of going about this. Helena is more “plan while you act” while Bruce is more “make a foolproof plan before you act.”
They’re also very similar in a lot of ways. Here’s a list of some of the similarities between Helena and Bruce:
I think Helena saw that they’re similar to some extent, but she also thought Bruce wasn’t doing enough or wasn’t effective enough so she thought herself to be very different from him. And the same thing goes for Bruce.
Despite popular belief, Bruce did see Helena’s potential and skills and he was also impressed with her development. He is the one who proposes that Helena should become a member of the Justice League.
DC One Million #4
He entrusts her with Gotham while he’s gone:
Batman: Shadow of the Bat #53
This next one is another important step in their relationship. It comes during NML after he fires Helena from being Batgirl.
Detective Comics #741
One of my favourite moments of them is from Batman/Huntress: Cry for Blood:
Batman/Huntress: Cry for Blood #5
Then we have Batman in during the Hush arc talking to himself about how good Helena is and how much she reminds him of himself:
Batman #609
And then again during Hush, he even admits to Catwoman that Helena is great.
Batman #618
We also have Batman praising Helena’s work during her run with the Birds of Prey. I think after this is when Batman and Huntress stopped being hostile to one another for good. Before this they would have moments where they would be good and work together and then they’d go right back to being wary of each other.
Birds of Prey #90
And just for a bonus panel:
Batman: The Brave and the Bold #14
Their relationship was frustrating at first and it was very bumpy as in it had a lot of ups and down, but in the end they ended up seeing each other as really close friends. However, throughout their relationship they both cared about each other a lot and it was often that we saw them fighting for each other even against dangerous enemies (like in Batman vs Predator). Batman always saw Helena as a very competent person and he was impressed with her skills and sometimes would even choose her intel over Oracle’s.
Batman #591
I really enjoy reading about them and I think their relationship had been developed extremely well. It’s probably one of the most complex relationships in DC comics.
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I was a temperamental child and I'm still trying to learn how to control my temper. It's hard to learn how to not have temper tantrums when, instead of helping children improve, society demonizes the child and their parents. I regularly run into people who claim that the only reason a child has temper issues is because their parents and the child are failures. The US still is influenced by the claim that began spreading in the 1980s that all children having tantrums are being controlled by demons and/or poltergeists (eg: Hollywood's Poltergeist movies). I came of age in the 1990s when the demon/poltergeist belief was everywhere.
I connect with Cass partly because she also has behavior and temper problems, with issue 3 of the current series coming close to being a full tantrum with loss of control from the stress she's under. She's considered to be a good person even with her rage fits which is finally allowing me to not consider myself, and other people who behave like me, unforgivable. It's a new idea to me that Steph could consider someone who hurts her as much as Cass does to be a good friend.
Cass communicating through body language is always so interesting to read. Like in those three panels, she's doing the obvious in order to explain that David is her dad and, in the next two panels, that she speaks through fighting.
She goes on to explain the same two concepts by copying her father's movesets, trying to show that him and her are one and the same.
This conversation with Azrael too where she's fighting the air to get her point across lol
And of course, whether her question is something simple like why Jean-Paul doesn't have his mask, or something more complicated like about B being guilty or sad, she regularly gets misunderstood. So incredibly frustrating and lonely.
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Thinking thoughts about Clark “just be normal” Kent and Lois “be extraordinary” Lane in that lois is in a competitive, misogynistic, eat or be eaten world and needs to yell to even let her voice be heard to survive it while clark is an illegal immigrant who might be white-passing but Knows that the moment someone finds out he’s different, not only will he be treated differently, he’ll actively be feared
+ the fact that both of them (in most universes) choose not to ignore the hate and corruption that fills the world but instead call attention to it using their respective positions in order to change it for the better and spread messages of love and peace when it would be so easy for both of them to keep their heads down
‘She wasn’t a good mother’ great are we evaluating this character trait as one of her many facets or are we just damning her for not being the most maternal womanliest woman who ever womaned
the thrilling sequel ‘he’s a bad father but we’re using it as grounds to see him as beloved and a deeply complex and intellectual character that needs to be studied’
