I think some people in the Dream SMP fandom really need to get their heads around the fact that suffering is not inherently virtuous.
Yeah, this is about the torture thing.
Dream getting tortured in prison doesnāt make him more redeemable. It doesnāt make him a better person. It doesnāt make him āworthy of savingā, half because heās still a fucking bastard and half because if youāre only saving the worthy youāve missed the point.
Yeah, Quackity torturing him is fucked up.
No, itās not gonna turn him into an iddle widdle twauwmatized baby who just needs wuv and affection fwom technobwade.
Like, first of all thatās not how trauma works. It doesnāt universally make people quieter, more submissive, or prone to crying softly until theyāre āfixedā by your hot white protagonist of choice.
We had all this discourse about not romanticizing trauma when Tommy was in exile, is it really so hard to apply it to Dream?
Second, him being tortured doesnāt fix what heās done. Heās still the guy who systematically isolated a 16 year old so he could abuse him easier, built the skeppy cage, and organized the final control room, among other things. No amount of being tortured makes that more acceptable, because thatās not how it works.
Being punished for a crime does not make the crime go away. Dream has shown no sign of wanting to make amends with the people heās hurt or improve as a person, and heās not going to grow a moral compass from being whacked with an axe a couple times a day, thatās fucking stupid.
I dunno, maybe Iām rambling, but...
You guys know that the statements āthis is a fucked up guy who should never see the light of day again because he would immediately start pulling shitā and āwow torturing him every day is kinda fucked upā can coexist, right?
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The way that the Dream SMP treats its villains is interesting, to me, as a case study of how the writing has changed from arc to arc.
At first, the only character who could really be labeled as a villain was Dream, back in the dubiously canon days of the drug van and the walls.
And even then, he wasnāt, really. In retrospect, perhaps, with more recent revelations on the nature of his character and his role within the story, itās easy to see how his actions then could be interpreted now as cruel, selfish. As abuses of his power as server administrator.
But this is only useful when looking at his character in retrospect, in trying to determine whether his acts of moral depravity later in the story were a development or merely something that had been bubbling under the surface for a long time before it was noticed.
In reality, Dream was not truly a villain, early on. The lore wasnāt yet serious enough to truly allow it. It was still a minecraft server where friends played together, with only scant hints of the lore and serious storytelling that have come to dominate the perception of the SMP.
In contrast to Dreamās early characterization, where there was little of the seriousness and drama that came later, Schlatt was a villain from the beginning.
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A few disconnected snippets from the fic Iām currently working on
(An Undertale fusion with Ranboo taking the role of Frisk)
ā
[ranboo pov]
Sometimes waking up is quick. A sudden awareness, a dream fading into the morning light, and there you are, once more an active participant in the world.
Thatās the best kind of awakening, in most situations. Makes it easy to get to school on time.
However, the universe quite consistently has it out for you personally, and as such you do not receive the luxury of a quick awakening.
No, waking up today feels like fighting through molasses, clawing your way up from an endless sea of unconsciousness when you want nothing more than to stay drowning in it.
You feel like shit, too. Youāll probably have that gummy stuff in your eyes.
Bringing a hand up to your face to roughly rub yourself into awareness, the first thing you note when you open your eyes is that this is not a place you remember having seen before.
Now, this is normal for you, seeing as your memory is about as effective as your brain, which is not at all, but youāre pretty sure this is a new low, even for you.
Honestly, you should have guessed something was off by how the ground felt before you even opened your eyes.
Sure, youāve slept in a few fields in your time, but a bed of flowers? Youād always assumed those only existed in manga.
The room youāre in is a massive cave, with only one exit you can spot from a glance. (And a hole in the ceiling, but youāre looking for places you could feasibly have entered from, so something that high up is irrelevant.)
If thereās only the one exit to the cave, you probably wandered in here while trying to escape a rainstorm or something last night, and you must have entered through there.
So, stands to reason thatāll be the way out, right?
With this flawless logic in mind, you get to your feet and make a beeline for it.
Just as youāre about to exit, something flashes in the corner of your eye. You turn your head, but thereās nothing there.
Huh. Must have been your imagination, then.
ā
[ghostbur pov]
Something is wrong.
Excluding your missing memories, excluding your apparent ability to see Ranbooās battle screen despite not being Ranboo and not being involved in the encounter, excluding the fact that his first experience in the underground was someone trying to kill him, even excluding the star.
Ignoring all of that, something here is very wrong.
Why is Technoblade in the Ruins? Youād assumed heād just been visiting for a picnic, or some such thing, but that noteā¦
Youād lied to Ranboo, about what it said. It wasnāt just an explanation of encounters, though that was a part of it.
No, the full contents of the note areā¦
Concerning.
āHey, new human. [censored for spoilers] probably didnāt explain the combat system down here, because heās cringe like that. So because Iām extremely cool, I decided to explain it to you for him.
But you were taking a while to get here, so I wrote this note instead. That dummy over there is named Steve, youāll be practicing on him.
Walk up to him and select the MERCY menu. Then hit āfleeā and the fight should end immediately.
Every fight down here is like that, so you should be able to apply the same principle for whatever randos attack you, though it might take a couple tries against the faster ones.
Oh, and-
Donāt FIGHT. Ever.
Unless you wanna die, of course, but Iām mostly trying to stay on Eretās good side, here.
So Iād really rather not need to kill you.
See you soon,
-Technobladeā
ā
[ghostbur pov]
āI donāt think thatās normal,ā you state.
Ranboo turns toward you, and the screen disappears as he raises his eyebrows. āBut falling a completely unreasonable distance and surviving before being attacked by a [censored for spoilers] is?ā
Fair enough. You guess he hasnāt really got any standard of normality anymore.
Heāll regain it, of course, if he stays down here long enough, but for now you know exactly how lost and confused he must feel.
āNo. This is weird in a way thatās not connected to the undergroundās standard oddities.ā
He sighs. You canāt help but commiserate.
This situation is already unusual enough, so why does the world need to throw yet more weirdness at you? Isnāt it enough to have you be a ghost when as far as you know, ghosts donāt exist? Isnāt it enough to try and help this kid find a safe place after his first experience down here was an attack?
...Isnāt it enough to leave you dead, alone, and missing memories?
ā
[ranboo pov]
With that out of the way, you walk into the next room. Itās not really any more remarkable than any of the other rooms youāve seen. (And significantly less remarkable than the room where youād found the save point, which had been absolutely spectacular looking)
Just a generic purple room with some discolored tiles that indicate a path, really. You walk through without paying it much attention.
Just as youāre entering the adjoining hallway, you hear pounding footsteps and someone screams: āDIE, HUMAN!!ā
You barely hear Ghostburās muttered āIs that Cletus?ā Before a short-
You canāt discern anything about this person other than their height, actually. Theyāre too bundled up for anything else to be visible.
Anyway, theyāre barreling towards you extremely quickly, screaming about wanting you to die, and you donāt exactly have a lot of time to figure out the best way to deal with this, ok?
So you just- react.
They get close enough for you to reach them and you just-
Hit them aside.
You- you just meant to stop them from bowling you over, all right? You were just defending yourself from someone who was pretty clearly trying to kill you, yeah? You didnāt mean anything by it.
Been trying to figure out what bothers me so much about cc!Wilburs statements about ghostbur and I think I finally have somewhat of an answer
Itās not that ghostbur is dead, itās the fact that cc!Wilbur went out his way to detail the amount of pain ghostbur is facing while being dead.
Like is he trying to make some point about the world being a cruel place and bad things happening to good people
Because for gods sake weāve already had that beaten over our heads by every other character in this story. The only difference being their that those characters still try to remain hopeful or fight back against their conditions somehow
cc!Wilburās statements about ghostbur (which Iām going to be referring to as ghostburs epilogue from here on out) Donāt line up thematically with the rest of the story
It feels like being cruel just for the sake of being cruel instead for some narrative purpose
Narratively would it not make more sense to leave it up to fans to determine whether ghostbur was indeed his own person and not connected to Wilbur other than the fact that they swap places when they die and have some shared memories or if he was still apart of Wilbur, just without a lot of his key features and therefore merged back into Wilbur after his death thus reinstilling a revived Wilbur with the new lease on live that ghostbur tried to hold on to, the same one which Wilbur lacked when he was alive (which in itself would be a really good subversion of expectations regarding ghostburs existence)
I just donāt understand why cc!Wilbur would make this epilogue except for shits and giggles at us being sad or to I guess make this story more grim dark and thus refute a bunch of the themes that have been built up in the story previously?
I just donāt know but it doesnāt sit right with me
Iām choosing to hope thereās a narrative reason for it, since it does seem... kinda just blatantly off?
I dunno if Iām making incorrect assumptions here, but I donāt think hurt/no comfort is really what Wilbur usually write when he does stories? Like, I guess my only other experiences with his writing would be the ARG and when he went really hard with the RP in skyblock (and his music, I guess, but Iām sure that counts), so thatās not a massive data set, but with the ARG at least, it definitely felt like he was having fun making his character suffer, but as, like, a means to an end within the narrative that eventually forced the character to grow as a person.
And the way heās been doing the writing in the DSMP (taking only season one and Ghostbur into account because I donāt know how which parts of the current arc heās controlling or what he has planned for them), he does seem to be making his character go through a lot, but heās also been very careful to keep him sympathetic and redeemable throughout that.
And that might just be me projecting, since I do tend to be nicer to characters than their authors intend me to be, but just- the way he wrote Vilburās self destructive spiral, the way he wrote Ghostbur as such an obvious foil to him...
Hearing about how much Ghostbur is suffering in the afterlife versus how much Resurrectbur is enjoying being back in the mortal plane, it feels like heās setting up opportunities to finally have a proper confrontation between them, to finally have them speak to each other for real and give us a deeper perspective on both of them.
I just feel like heād be the type to disguise plot set-up as poor writing so that no one expects it when he pulls out the twist.
Though I guess Iāve misread genuine bad/unsatisfying writing as set-up before, so I might just be being too optimistic...
Ah, so Pandora was Dream and hope was Ghostbur. What an amazing way to deliver on the Pandoraās Box analogues weāve all been hoping for with the prison and to hint towards a redemption arc for Alivebur down the line and-
Wait, no. Canāt analyze it properly. Iām crying too much.
@purpleflamed says: āIād love to hear your thoughts, with the updated lore...is a Tommy about to pull a Pandora? While I wouldnāt say his motives are curiosity, there is a constant tension having the prison RIGHT there.ā
(This was in response to this post I made a while ago about the prison arc and its parallels to greek mythology)
Thatās a good question, honestly. Iām definitely Living In Fear (tm), but as far as whether I think itāll actually happen...
Tommy losing his last life to Dream is probably (hopefully) the end of his tragedies. Itās a painful relapse into his trauma after heād finally escaped it, but if the analyses are correct and it being a relapse metaphor is intentional, itāll probably just end up being a quick last big bad thing before Tommyās healing arc finally starts in earnest. Honestly, Iām expecting heāll start dropping off from the main plot a bit in order to let his character recover properly before any more big stuff happens with him.
I could be wrong, of course, but thatās my current projection.
However, Tommy is not the only character currently in a position to pull a Pandora, and in fact there are several characters it would make much more sense for.
In order of how much Iām manifesting, my guesses are:
1. Technoblade
2. Badboyhalo
3. Philza
The reason why Iām guessing these characters specifically is because theyāre all currently in a position where, A: Sam would likely be willing to hold them in prison, and, B: theyāre clearly set up for some kind of big narrative punishment for their actions.
Iād say Techno is the most likely because c!Techno has faced almost no narrative consequences as of yet for the various things heās done, as well as having motive to free Dream. (The favor)
Hereās how that sequence goes in my head: Tommy rocks up to the prison to kill Dream, and manages to get to his cell due to Sam being distracted by the simultaneous break-in from Techno. Dream is successfully broken out, and Tommy chases him, but Techno ends up trapped somehow, and someone (probably Quackity, letās be honest) convinces Sam to keep him locked up.
Iād also consider Bad a likely possibility, as his current arc has been Skeppy whump after Skeppy whump, and now that their relationship has finally deteriorated visibly, as well as Bad being in the midst of a moral crisis due to killing Foolish, heās in the perfect position to do one more really bad thing before starting his redemption arc.
Hereās how Iād write that: Bad, at the end of his rope, alone, hunted, and uncertain, decides to free Dream in order to simultaneously get back the one friend he knows wonāt give a fuck about him doing murders, as well as to get one of the most powerful people on the server to owe him a massive favor. So he and Tommy break in at the same time, chaos reigns, and Dream escapes while Sam manages to lock up Bad. Thus isolated from the egg, itās influence over him slowly fades and he realizes more and more how far heās fallen, finally culminating in the eggheads breaking him out only for him to turn around and betray them almost immediately.
And as for Philza? Honestly, I just think itād be awesome if, in an attempt to get his son back, he ended up fucking everything up real bad. I just think that would be an extremely pog amount of angst and would also give Phil more opportunities to develop his character.
In conclusion: haha bet you didnāt expect a fuckin essay lmao
Ayup just thinking about how despite multiple characters saying violence is the only universal language, violent conflict on the smp consistently solves absolutely nothing and in fact almost always makes things worse for everyone involved
Also thinking about Tommy breaking into prison to kill dream soon and the likelihood of him succeeding
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Please I desperately need people to accept that heās not a moral paragon
With the syndicate stuff and all that everyone keeps expecting him to make the most heroic choice in any given situation and I just- please, guys
He can be a good character and a sympathetic one, and that doesnāt require him to be a paragon! Heās flawed, his worldview is extremely black and white, he makes excuses to allow himself to be friends with people who have killed his other friends, and heās actively helped Dream in his enderwalk, which is canonically not a different personality!
Heās not perfect! Heās not right! Heās not a hero!
And he shouldnāt have to be, he shouldnāt get stuck in this box of either being a hero or a villain, he should get to be just a teenager who makes flawed decisions for flawed reasons without that making him a monster!
This is on the edge of being incoherent but basically I just desperately want people to let him be morally grey sometimes because he deserves to go apeshit
In any other story, heād be written as the hero.
Instead, heās an amazing character study for what paragons look like in practice, in the real world surrounded by terrible ideas and incomplete information, as opposed to a vacuum where the right choice is obvious to all parties
Heās preachy and egotistical and self centered and entitled without that taking away from him being caring and loyal and intelligent and devoted
He believes the ends justify the means but is too caught up in his own hype to see that his means make him far worse than the things he works against, and in the end paint him as antagonist to other people who place a high value on personal freedom (like Tommy)
Canāt believe thereās a fake Phil pretending to be a real Phil who uses their ārealā status as a way to rebuff accusations of kinning like actual Philza ābleach skinā Minecraft isnāt the biggest kinnie of all
Anyway @real-ph1lza this is entirely directed at you. You are either kinning a kinnie or you are kinning the people kinning a kinnie so hard that no one can tell the difference
C!Techno is just... really hard for me to talk about coherently. Heās a really complicated character with a lot of conflicting traits, so I canāt just put him in an easy box in my head like I can with most characters.
He has so many juxtapositions baked into him, yāknow?
A loyal traitor, a brave coward, an anarchist in the 1%...
And itās done really well, too. All of his little idiosyncrasies make perfect sense in context, despite how odd they sound without it.
Basically, I love him and I want the narrative to force him into character growth because I think forcing him to face the lies he tells himself would be extremely cathartic
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Eret sits alone on the day Lāmanburg is reclaimed.
Not that they didnāt help with taking it back- of course they did, right? They have a lot to atone for, and theyād been waiting, waiting, waiting for an opportunity to take back a few of their sins.
So they did help take it back, stood atop a tower firing down at Dream and his allies, watched Schlattās infamously poor health come back to bite him in the most final wayā¦
But they donāt stick around long, after that. They donāt stay for the presidential game of hot potato, the founders of the nation passing its ownership back and forth.Ā
They would have, normally, but.
Eret has worked with Dream, in the past. Everyone loves to remind them of it, and they often do so themselves, but something oft forgotten is that Eret knows Dream, knows the obsession he has with ending Lāmanburg, knows the methods heās most fond of, that game of pawns and traitors he excels at so notoriously.
And Eret knows Dream gave Wilbur 11 stacks of TNT.
Now, supposedly itās all gone. Various people have looked around and none have been able to find a trace of it, but Eret knows Wilbur, knows the message he wants to send, and before the battle, they checked somewhere no one else did.
Not many people know the podium is hollow, so not many people noticed when it stopped echoing if you hit it and started making a dull thud sound instead.
Eret notices a lot of things.
While Wilbur is taking his place on stage, Eret goes around the hill, digging toward the podium theyāve guessed to be filled full with TNT.
It takes them a while, but when they find itā¦
Thereās so much.
The smell of sulfur is overwhelming, and they take a moment to pull their shirt over their nose before they begin to dig it out.
They donāt get it all, they donāt have time, but they find the blackstone room and the redstone that runs from it and they make dead sure all the explosives near it are broken.
Then, they dig into the room, because why not? Sue them, theyāre curious.
What they find is⦠exactly what they expected and nothing they could have imagined, at the same time.
Itās unassuming, at a glance. Dingy, poorly lit, small.
Itās also a terrifying representation of Wilburās mental state, with the anthem scribbled on the wall in the messiest handwriting theyāve ever seen from the former president, whoās usually so neat and tidy.
Thereās no button, which is odd. Perhaps he means to place it himself?
(Eret has no illusions heās changed his mind. As they said, theyāve worked with Dream before. If he hasnāt extracted some promise from Wilbur to blow it all sky high no matter what, theyāll steal their crown from George and eat it.)
They stand for a moment, just taking in the place, before they hear blocks breaking from the passageway out and realize just how close theyāve cut it.
Hurriedly, they block up the hole theyād used to enter, hoping Wilbur wonāt realize theyāve destroyed the TNT.
(Hoping heās too distracted by his own thoughts to hear them close it)
Only moments after the hole is shut, he comes into view, breaking the dirt blocks that hide this chamber from sight.Ā
The day outside is far brighter than the hidden room, and the contrast makes it so all Eret can see of Wilbur is a dark silhouette haloed by the clear blue sky.
He doesnāt seem to see them at first, coming almost halfway down the passage before he stops, noticing their presence.
āEret.ā His voice is as calm as it always is, when he says it, but they can tell heās surprised.
āWilbur.ā They greet in response.
āI didnāt expect to find you here. Come to blow it up yourself?ā Eret sighs. The hostility in his voice is... not undeserved.
āNot quite.ā
āStill trying for your redemption arc, then?ā Thereās venom in his tone.
ā...as much as I can, yes.ā
Wilbur deflates, and it seems like the anger in him has fled as quickly as it entered.
āWhy are you doing this, Eret?ā
The answer to that is⦠complicated. There are a lot of reasons. They donāt want Lāmanburg blown up, for one. Itās suffered rather enough, especially with some of Schlattās alterations. They also donāt see a better way to try and make up for what theyāve done than stopping someone else from doing the same, but neither of those are really why. The real reason, the truth of why theyāve spent days knocking on hollow objects and digging random holes in the ground until they finally found the bombs?
āI know better than anyone how much doing this will destroy you.ā They say.
And thatās the truth of it, isnāt it? The unvarnished fact of the matter is thereās no moral motivation here, as much as theyād like to pretend. They just donāt want anyone else to feel the guilt theyāve felt, and maybe thereās a selfishness in that, but maybe itās important, to acknowledge your mistakes and do what you can to stop others from making them.
Wilbur laughs, and thereās no humor in it.
āOf course that would be your reasoning,ā and the anger in his voice is back, and Eret is preparing to respond, and Wilbur gives them no chance to before he continues.Ā
āMaybe Iām already destroyed, huh? Maybe Iāve already seen too much of what the world can offer to recover from it!ā He swings a hand out wide, indicating the writing on the wall in an aggressive motion that makes Eret shrink back.
āI wrote a whole fucking song for this place, Eret! You were there, you know I did, you were in both versions of the damn thing, and what the fuck is left?ā Wilbur inhales, before continuing in a softer tone, āWhat the fuck is left of it, Eret? I built Lāmanburg to be special, to be free from tyranny, and look whatās itās become.ā
āSchlattās dead, though. He canāt stop you from building it back up.ā They counter, but Wilbur doesnāt falter.
āYeah, and? We violently deposed him, Eret. He had a heart attack sure, but this was a coup through and through. We killed the rightful president of Lāmanburg. Weāve made ourselves just as bad as him!āĀ
...no?
No, theyāre pretty sure thatās not how that works.
āIsnāt it the right of the people to rebel against rulers who treat them poorly? Schlatt had terrible policies, exiled his political opponents, taxed his citizens into starvation, and destroyed historic monuments,ā they adjust their glasses slightly. āDidnāt he kind of have it coming?ā
Wilbur stops. Blinks.
Eret suspects heās never thought of it that way, before.
āBut we still killed him. Thatās still wrong.ā He says, but he sounds... uncertain, now. Off balance.
āWell, we would have. He died before we could.ā
āThat doesnāt change the intent.ā
āFair enough.ā
Eret pauses to collect their thoughts in an orderly manner.
āI still donāt really think it would have been wrong, though. Not any more than it would have been wrong if youād killed me.ā
Wilbur snorts, and says, āJust because youāre drowning in self loathing doesnāt mean you get to snap me out of my self destructive spiral. Iāve been doing just fine with it on my own, thanks.ā
Sure he has.
They know terrible coping mechanisms when they see them, is all Eret is saying here.
He must see something of their thoughts in their face, because he continues almost immediately.
āYou havenāt got any right to talk, anyway, mr. āit was never meant to beā.ā
Ah. Hm. Heās got a point there.
Though, their own experience with this is what prompted them to confront him in the first place, so.
āI was wrong, when I said that. I was wrong, and you proved me wrong.ā
They mean it, too. Theyād been blind when theyād said those words, trying to justify what they were doing to themself by saying the revolution would never have succeeded anyway, and theyād been so fucking stupid.
Wilbur just laughs, though. He laughs for a while.
āYou really donāt get it, do you, Eret? You were right, then! You were fucking right! None of this was ever going to work, not with Dream against us! He was always going to find a way to throw a wrench in the gears, and maybe Schlatt got to it first, but thereās no happy ending for this place!ā He steps forward, and they realize how close he is to them. āThereās no way out, here! Iām going to press the button, Technoblade is going to summon withers because heās the goddamn traitor, and Dreamās just going to sit back and watch and be just as untouchable as he always is.ā
Wilbur takes another step closer to them, laying a hand on their shoulder, and though heās only barely taller than them, those two inches feel like two miles, with the way he looms.
āIāve been to this room, over and over again! Seven or eight times, Iāve been here, staring at this fucking wall and the fucking button, and I-!ā He runs his free hand roughly over his face, and Eret sees something suspiciously like tears in his eyes.
āI canāt do this, Eret. Iāve given so much for this country, everyone has, and thereās just nothing left. Iām so tired, Eret. Iāve lost so much of myself to this.ā
Eret raises their hand slowly, telegraphing the motions so Wilbur can pull back if he wants, and puts it over the one heās placed on their shoulder.
They take a step and theyāre basically touching him, and carefully, carefully, they reach their other arm around him until theyāre embracing.
Itās not quite a hug, really. The position is a bit too awkward, especially with both of them barely fitting in the tiny room, but itās close.
Wilbur stays tense, but he doesnāt push them away, doesnāt tell them to let go.
They hope it helps him, hope theyāre right and he needs as much as it seems, and the evidence doesnāt seem to contradict that hypothesis.
Itās good, that this has worked. Good that they were able to convince him, to make him realize this isnāt the answer.
Click.
A moment of silence.
Wilbur laughs, a real laugh, not a pale imitation fed by anger and self loathing, and keeps laughing for nearly a full minute before he regains his composure.
āOh, Eret,Ā you bastard.ā He says, and they can hear the smile in his voice. āYou broke the redstone, you glorious motherfucker.ā
Itās then that Eret realizes what just happened.
Wilbur had used the hug as a cover to place a button on the wall and press it, not realizing all the TNT near the room was safely in their inventory.
That fucking prick.
Eret laughs then, too, fueled half by the sheer fear of realizing Wilbur actually did it, actually pressed the button, and it was only their having broken it that stopped Lāmanburg being blown up again, but the laugh is also coming from the desperate, desperate relief they feel because even if they didnāt succeed in convincing him, even if they didnāt change his mind, they still stopped him from making their mistake.
āWhy even try to talk me out of it, if you already made it so I couldnāt?ā He asks, bemused.
āI canāt exactly stop you from getting more TNT and trying again, can I?ā
Wilbur tenses against them, before they continue.
āPlease donāt, Wilbur. I donāt know what youāre trying to accomplish with it, but⦠give yourself a chance to heal, please. Schlatt is dead, and even if youāre right, and Technoblade is the traitor, no one is going to let him destroy this. Even if he breaks every block of this nation, weāll put it back, because this place has never been the builds, or the podium, or the walls,ā
āLāmanburg is the people, and weāre not going anywhere,ā