nothing to see here

So while playing through chapter 4 I started thinking about who might be helping the knight, because while we know the knight is at the center of everything, it's a little funny to imagine that they're all over town making these dark worlds, I mean someone would see them and probably raise an eyebrow at the getup

But in chapter 3 we know it's Kris who opens the dark world, that's also why it's Tenna who's the boss and why he's so fond of Kris and says so much to them.

In chapter 4 it's stated that the dark world reflects something of the one who opens it, and when Susie tries to open it, the world becomes twisted in a way because she doesn't have a relation to the world and what it means. Here we have Gerson, sweet and nice and in loving memory. A dearly departed.

Which leads me to believe the one opening the dark world here has been Alvin, because it's Gerson's son and it's why Gerson is trying to reach him. No one has stated the one opening the dark world has to fall into it, and we don't know if we'll actually meet them inside.

In chapter 2 the main boss is the Queen and she's a little harder to pinpoint because she's a laptop and has a pretty good grasp on most of the people in town, since we can see she has access to their browser history.

She's most concerned with Noelle, but Noelle doesn't seem to know what is happening here so I don't think she was the one. Someone had to be in the computer lap, possibly in the backroom and is probably someone close to Noelle (perhaps even someone who wanted to trigger the series of events that should have gotten Noelle into the game since Susie is looking less and less like the destined hero and Noelle probably should have been with Kris in chapter 1. A theory that's looking very valid after chapter 4.)

And all of that leads us to the question about the shelter and who knows what happened down there. Because I think there's a correlation between who's working with the knight and who knows about what happened in the shelter and possibly what happened to Dess and how she disappeared.

Kris knows. Of that we're certain.

They opened a dark world.

Is trying to keep the player in the dark.

Knows about determination.

Seems to be involved with a lot of secrets.

Is terrified of the shelter, possibly traumatized.

Carol might have prepared them for their role (since her obsession with red hearts and determination and her daughter missing)

The code panel on the shelter tells us the Holidays, the police and the church are all involved.

The holidays, especially Carol seems extremely suspicious. I personally don't think she's the knight, but I can definitely see her working with the knight, maybe even to try and save Dess. this also explains why she's favoring Kris. They work together.

The police - most people think Undyne is the one who know the code. But I don't think so. She's a rookie cop who wants something big to happen, and the only reason why she is chief, is because Asgore, former chief, had to step down after a person went missing three years ago. That is Dess.

Asgore also works for Carol, he has a shadow crystal. And he has the soul flowers just casually in his room. If you look through the backdoor to his shop, you can also see a hidden corkboard with documents and string. And we know from Undertale he's a character who will do what's necessary even if he doesn't like it and it's horrible.

Very sus.

And the last one is the church. We know Toriel is very involved in church, she has access to the school and seems to know some of what Asgore is doing. However she clearly doesn't approve and she doesn't exactly seem like the type who'd let children risk their lives. So I don't think she's the one. Also because of chapter 3. She knows something is up, but I don't think she's directly involved.

Alvin however has basically incriminated himself. So desperate for his father's approval, and the whole religion is basically built on the prophecy. Not sure exactly why he'd do it, but he doesn't seem hard to convince if you told him it was for the greater good

But who opened the portals in chap 1 & 2 is harder to figure out. I don't think Alvin did the school one, or else the picture of Gerson, would probably have made Gerson be in the world, and the world seems to favor who made it because of their memories. It could have been Kris, but then the portal would have been open all night. And in chapter 2 we basically have eyes on them the entire day.

Some people I think are sus and could be involved are also:

Catti - the one in Kris's class, if you speak to her about Noelle after chap 2 she says some really interesting things about protecting Noelle and being enemies with Kris before she refuses to say anything else to Kris.

Snowy - "it started with ice" the snowgrave route tells us that ice magic has always been dangerous, Snowy's mother (Crystal) is dead. But snowy doesn't seem to know about the bunker

Normal NPC (the guy in the library about the books upstairs) - is a gaster follower in Undertale. says he likes the books upstairs where we learn about souls, monster funerals and how to take care of a human.

Onion - idk if he knows or if he just "feels" stuff because of the ocean

Sans - he's sans

Asriel - is he REALLY at college or is that just a cover-up since December is supposedly one of his best friends and she disappeared before he went to college

The bratty and Catty rivalry also tells us something fun. Because we know from how bratty (alligator) is talking about Asriel that she grew up in town and is she home from college (I don't remember what she said?)

But Catty doesn't seem to know who she is despite them being about the same age. That means the cats must have moved to town? But they're also very much into the deltarune religion

But Catty claims to be Kris' "Aunt" ... So why don't they know each other if they both live in town??

I also think there's a chance future chapters will have a dark world at the town hall (Carol) and maybe even the hospital (Rudy?) with the final world being the shelter.

I've been stuck trying to beat the knight, apparently I'm too bad at the game to do it so while I was taking a break and being sour over it I thought about it and like...

My current theory is kind of that weird route is fighting the roaring knight after losing to him the first time.

Like getting the mantle is pretty much enacting weird route, I don't think getting the mantle will ruin a pacifist run in the long run but the Zelda like game is every "toeing the line" especially if you move your character to almost hurt Susie (for Kris to save her of course). But also with how the holder speaks to Kris right before you get the mantle

But fighting the knight is basically forcing your will on the game, (much like how you force your will on Noelle in chap 2) reloading and persisting against a foe you're not supposed to beat. Also because I think it's very unlike Toby to have such a brutal enemy in a pacifist/neutral run (yes I have been getting my ass kicked by the knight and I'm a tad bitter about it). But also because you can't spare the knight, which is super weird for a toby game if we're the good guys

You HAVE to fight to kill, not that it's working but the heroes don't know that. Defeating the knight will damage their sword, possibly leaving them vulnerable later(?) and another theory is that the knight is Dess (horns, baseball bat, missing, tied to the shelter, guitar has code to shelter, it's December guys... which is also why I think Noelle couldn't have been in this chapter without complications of fighting/recognizing her own sister (and I cannot imagine we're not supposed to try and save her at some point)) and not the main antagonist despite being portrayed that way. Especially with her bird form (amalgamation?) when she snatched undyne and the fact she has gaster hands, and in her prefight animation she looks more like a puppet/undead/thingy - not something in control

Also interesting to note - if you do the shadow mantle before you go get the egg, you will lock yourself out of getting the eggs (I did jn fact do this and had to reload to get it).

Now of course, we don't know what the eggs do yet, but since you cannot get the egg after getting the mantle, that'll help you beat the knight, that you have to force your will to do - I think the eggs represent the better route here, especially with the monologue the strange man gives us and the inbetween world that seems to be something Kris helped create when they were younger. There's a very big emphasis on forgetting or rather, not forgetting and if you don't reassure the man you won't forget he won't give the egg.

If you force Noelle through Snowgrave in chap 2, she seems confused and comments on not being able to remember what happened not even recognizing Berdly, someone she is with everyday