da black codex

Note that i say 'claws' and thats bc its how its portrayed in game: she was attractive at a party and snagged an older guy who wanted a younger woman and then used him to get perks and favors, which otoh her treatment WAS absolutely unusual even before becoming an advisor to the empress but also she had to have a lot of skill as a mage and as a political operative or no amount of highly ranked older men would have been much benefit to her.

These are the answers and like. You can't say this kind of stuff to Leliana or Cassandra who are other Divine candidates.

3 - General: I found out what it was. PC: I saw your notes. It’s a youth potion! Vivienne: I see. And because you found that superficial and shallow, you condemned a man you’d never even met. How enlightened, my dear. [8] 4 - General: I didn’t trust you. PC: You refused to give me any details! I had no idea what the potion would do! Vivienne: If you had moral objections, you could have simply said no. I fail to see the ethical superiority of lying and sabotage. [8] 5 - General: Because I hate you. PC: You’re manipulative and shallow, and I wanted you to fail. Vivienne: Well, congratulations, my dear. Your petulance condemned an innocent man to death. [8]

And checking the Epilogies of Cassandra vs Vivienne, who have very similar values and both bring back the circles and templar order:

Cassandra continued her reign as Divine Victoria, rebuilding fractured alliances and settling the Inquisition into its new role as her personal guard. (...) Her efforts were successful, and—for a time—southern Thedas saw peace. Leliana Divine While she often disagreed with Leliana's policies, the former Right and Left Hands of the Divine shared a mutual respect and worked well together. Vivienne Divine However, she eventually grew disgusted by Vivienne—who she felt was perverting the Chant of Light's intent—and left the council.

As the Inquisition forces returned to civilian life, its mages pushed for independence from the Circle. Divine Victoria, secure on her Sunburst Throne—and with a rebuilt Chantry Circle at her disposal—chose to be magnanimous. She grudgingly allowed them to remain as the College of Enchanters, as a mark of her regard for the Inquisition. For the next few years, the College and the Circle coexisted peacefully, if barely.

Leliana Divine, Mages recruited as allies Madam de Fer ably played on the mages' fear. Her followers united to build a new Circle—with Vivienne as its Grand Enchanter—in direct competition with the College.

vs

Seekers rebuilt Cassandra also spent time in the Hunterhorn Mountains north of Orlais, where she worked to rebuild the Seekers. For a time, the new Seekers remained reclusive, showing no interest in worldly affairs and working to a purpose few outside their order could guess.

Literally that meme of our Neutrally Good New Seekers who are just chilling and No One Is Afraid of them and fear of magic is not relevant to having Seekers around vs That Evil Enchanter playing on Mage's fears. And like they are both doing the same thing they both want the templars and the seekers and the circles back! Vivienne even approves of Cassandra Divine! It makes no sense that Cass who had been all game being cordial with Vivienne Suddenly Hates her so much as Divine sharing the same beliefs.

Vivienne led many of the old guard to form a new Circle, surprising absolutely no one when it immediately elected her as its Grand Enchanter

"surprising absolutely no one" No one says this or Cass or Leliana Divine or Varric Viscount etc etc

Fortunately, Grand Enchanter Vivienne grudgingly agreed not to destroy its terrified leaders, as a personal favor to Divine Victoria.

You check the cass vs vivienne divine trespasser epilogue and you are like. What does the epilogue writer have against Vivienne lmao.

Also All These Convers with Josephine about Vivienne:

Vivienne’s personal quest complete Josephine: You’ve already met Grand Cleric Marcelline. Lady Vivienne helped arrange the visit. The timing is most curious. PC: Why? Josephine: Word has circulated that Grand Cleric Marcelline will be instrumental in choosing our next Divine. What are Lady Vivienne’s intentions, I wonder?

Josephine: So Lady Pentaghast will take the Sunburst Throne. Cassandra will guide the Chantry back to what she considers its roots, curbing its worst excesses. She will be an unusually forthright Divine, however. (...) There have been Divines far less suited to the position, and few can deny the conviction of her faith.

vs

Josephine: Elevating the first enchanter to the throne of the Divine was a bold decision. If she can quell unrest, Lady Vivienne will hold more power than any mage in southern Thedas. May I pass on an observation? (...) I realize you and Madame Vivienne had become friendly, Inquisitor. But I wonder how she’ll reshape the Chantry. You may recall her views are somewhat… conservative, on these matters.

The majority of the knowledge (and language, both written and spoken in my opinion) in Elvhenan seems to have been tied intrinsically to the Fade, as evidenced by the Vir Dirthara, and much of that was shattered during the creation of the Veil. So now you have a people who have suffered a major cataclysmic event, and now have to figure out how to live without it.

There are fragments that Rook can find in Arlathan Forest, but the first of these is a fragment of a verse preserved in textiles (likely embroidery, but possibly dyed or woven). The others seem to be from a book destroyed in the sack of Arlathan, and that, to me seems to be likely of a later date, after the surviving elvhen had tried to preserve their remaining knowledge in physical books.

My guess is that the written word in Ancient Elvhenan was used primarily in decorative applications, wall hangings, inscriptions, etc, and was likely a significant art form on its own. (And the script seems to have changed over time, because what was written on the walls at the Temple of Mythal can't be read without drinking from it. I would posit that this change was an attempt at standardization, simplification, or both, or perhaps the script used at Mythal was so ornate that it couldn't be read except by a trained calligrapher.)

The veilfire glyphs, such as the ones that can be found in the Temple of Dirthamen seem to have been a more common? practical? form of preserving knowledge than writing it in the elvhen script. Why wouldn't it be, to a people who were intrinsically tied to the Fade and could never have conceived of a world where this wouldn't have been the case?

And most of the elves that had been able to survive the creation of the Veil likely weren't one of Solas' rebels. Solas had to leave notes in his hideouts to inform freed slaves he wasn't a god. The propaganda on that was clearly widespread, because the Evanuris needed him to be a god. Gods shouldn't be getting their eyes blackened by just some guy, after all. If he'd been winning, or had greater numbers, he probably wouldn't have needed to do something so desperate as raise the Veil in the first place. And Elgar'nan says that he was an irritation (which could be a jab, but also seems likely to me.)

And then, after all that, Arlathan was sacked by Tevinter, and what little the elves had been able to preserve was lost again except what could be preserved through oral tradition, probably passed down in whispers and coded in stories by slaves . (And why were they sacked? Because the Evanuris were whispering in the ears of the Tevinter Dreamers, probably because Elgar'nan is a sore loser, and wanted to punish the surviving elves for failing him, or because he thought Solas had won, and he wouldn't be able to gain a foothold. (Or both.) He had time, and the humans seemed like a better option.)

Anyway, my point is, the Dalish did very well under the circumstances,

Becuase Fenris has really spent the whole game justifying why mages need to get gone at all costs and here we are at the end of the game getting them gone and all those justifications of his? They're nowhere to be found.

I said already that the mages are massively winning any attempt at debate here on the final parts of the templar route. To reitterate: How can they not, when they're being slaughtered for a crime they didn't commit? There is no longer any pretense of there being a reasonable justification for what is happening.

And I think Fenris knows this. So he himself has dropped that pretense of justification. His concerns during this quest? Moving as quickly as possible and getting this done:

He does not want to prolong this - is interested neither in revelling in it, not leaving the results up to chance. They need to get in, take out the mages before they organise, and erradicate them all before we have time to think too long or develop sympathies in the wrong places or get second thoughts about what we're doing and why.

What else does Fenris say during this quest:

Fenris: Desperation will drive these mages to terrible acts. I have seen it before. It will not be pretty.

Fenris: The Imperium has its own templars, and they too must act when mages cross the line.

Fenris: The line is in a different place, but the end result is the same.

Fenris: We will see abominations born of terror and wrath, men you never believed capable of depravity embracing it gladly.

Oh, hey, it's a bunch of stuff about the practical dangers they're going to face walking into the Gallows and- what do you know? -every bit of it is true! Yes, desperation will drive these people to terrible things! They're about to pull out the worst weapons at their disposal! But Fenris is being so, so very careful to keep the conversation on how we need to respond to this, and entirely away from what's causing it.

Do not ask him what is driving these people to such desperate measures. Do not point out we're litterally the ones coralling them into a tower where we intend to kill them. Do not ask him if they deserve it. Do not ask him how he would react in their shoes. Do not point out all the things he is working very hard not to think about. It is not the time for that. All of that will only get in the way of what he's determined needs to be done.

Do not.

According to the Dalish, the first varterral was created in the days before Arlathan. A high dragon attacked a mountain city beloved by Dirthamen, and the elven god fashioned the fallen trees of the forest into a deadly guardian that drove back the serpent. Elves tell that the varterral has kept its vigil ever since, even over the ruins.

Varterrals thrive in secluded places and hunt elk and bears. They have a rocky carapace, attack with fast strikes and spit caustic poison. At least some of them have no eyes and thus are completely blind, which is offset by the ability to feel movements through the ground like a snake and, according to Felassan, to taste the guilt of intruders. Only dragons represent a challenge to the beasts, and even they seldom win.

Deep Roads concept art

Disclaimer: This post consists of solely my opinions, and please feel free to voice your disagreements should you feel my interpretations are inaccurate.

Social hierarchy-Division of Labour

My first impression of the Qun when I first played the game is that I immediately recognise the "Confucianism" due to my own background. And we learn that compared to the Andrastians, the qunaris have a more well-thought-out view on social hierarchy.

In ancient Chinese society, the four categories of people — 士农工商(shi, nong, gong, shang) or warrior/scholar, farmer, artisan, merchant — was used by Confucian scholars to demarcate the economic usefulness of each class to the society. It was an idealisation rather than a legally binding hierarchy. Social harmony is achieved when everyone adheres to their functions as an individual, as a member of family, and as a member of society. Not dissimilar to how the qunari's emphasis on the well-being of society as a whole that hinges on each individual's responsibility.

The leader of the Antaam occupation in Treviso. "Butcher" Daathrata is a cruel commander, but is far from orthodox Antaam. He's become enamored by Treviso, and even through he's an occupier, he's beginning to treat it like "his city" and take steps to protect it. He has a sense of honor and is impressed by the Crows, and sees himself as having a kinship with them. In a weird way, he becomes a patriot of Treviso, even though he is never an ally and is always a threat. Respect for his enemies means he shows them no quarter. He is legitimately cruel, but honest about it. There are traitors who sold out Treviso and allowed the occupation to happen, and even though the Butcher was the benefactor of that exchange, he is disgusted by it. As he says, he conquered Treviso, he didn't betray it. He's the Nazi who fell in love with Paris, and has developed a love for Treviso and a respect for the Crows. But he will NEVER be an ally. He is physically imposing, like all Antaam, but also has an uncharacteristic sophistication and cultured tone. He's not a brute like the Dragon King. He's disciplined. An officer who knows how to manipulate as well as dominate.

And then there are the Profane. What the hell is up with the Profane?

At the most basic level, of course, they are a textbook example of why eating red lyrium is a bad idea (you wouldn’t think you would need to explain this to people, but somehow …).

They might just be spirits, of course. Another case like the various undead monsters you’ll end up fighting pretty much anywhere in Thedas. Spirits who so completely failed to grasp the difference between a living thing and a not living thing that they ended up possessing a rock.

But then, of course, there is this:

We who are forgotten, remember, We clawed at rock until our fingers bled, We cried out for justice, but were unheard. Our children wept in hunger, And so we feasted upon the gods. Here we wait, in aeons of silence. We few, we profane. – The Profane

That puts things in rather a different light. These were people who were abandoned or imprisoned – left to starve in the Deep Roads, just as Hawke and her friends have been left. Eating red lyrium was either a last ditch effort to survive, or a deliberate choice to become monsters in order to avenge themselves. Or both. Why not both.

To their credit, they do seem aware that eating lyrium is not really a great thing to do, although maybe not for practical reasons. In doing it, they are ‘feasting upon the gods’ and ‘profane’. Lyrium represents the gods, or perhaps literally is a god (modern dwarves venerate ‘the Stone’, after all). The question is, was it eating the gods that made them profane, or were they profane before that, and so figured they had nothing to lose?

One problem is that dwarven society is really good at forgetting things when it wants to. I mean, every civilisation covers up the nasty stuff, but the dwarves have made an art form out of it.

But things of interest, regardless.

In dwarven mythology, Rock Wraiths – Profane – are dwarves so corrupt and awful that the Stone has rejected them. So, the casteless, then. Now, setting aside the fact that that’s a bloody odd thing to say about beings who seem to be literally made of rock, the idea of casteless becoming Rock Wraiths upon death is a bit silly. There are a lot of casteless, and Rock Wraiths are incredibly rare. My poor Hawke might have trouble believing this, given that they just mobbed her, but so the Codex says. But still, the idea is there.

There isn’t really an origin story for the casteless. Shaper Czibor will tell you a little story about dwarven brothers and how they formed the caste system. It’s almost certainly not in any way a true story, but it exists. The casteless, however, are aggressively forgotten. The Shaper looked my Brosca Warden right in the eye and told her that before she became a Grey Warden, she did not exist. Common dwarves, who can’t avoid noticing the casteless, will tell you a little bit more. They’ll say casteless are descended from criminals and outcasts who weren’t supposed to breed – but did anyway.

Whatever happened to the Profane, it was deliberate. You don’t ‘cry out for justice’ if you’ve been trapped in a cave in. You might cry out for help, or in despair, but natural disasters aren’t deliberately oppressing you. Someone trapped the Profane in this place. And they didn’t just trap the adults, who might just possibly have done something awful enough that the rest of the population had to lock them up and run, they trapped the children too. Whoever they were, the Profane weren’t meant to survive. There wasn’t supposed to be a next generation.

So I wonder if maybe some of them ate lyrium and became Rock Wraiths … and some very few found a way out, and tried to go back to their people.

The other thing of note is that apparently the tabletop RPG claims that Rock Wraiths have a connection to the Fade and are prone to possession. I don’t own that, so I’m just going by what is in the Wiki, and I don’t know what words it actually uses. But certainly the Rock Wraith I got a screenshot of here is possessed, and the Profane use a fair bit of magic: they’ve a tendency to summon shades and throw lightning around and generally make your life unpleasant.

In one sense, that’s unremarkable. They eat lyrium. Meredith held onto that lyrium idol for a few years and she was bringing statues to life. Lyrium is living magic. It gives you super powers.

But at the same time – however mutated, lost and strange they may be, these are almost certainly dwarves. Dwarves dreaming in the Fade. Dwarves doing magic. Dwarves getting possessed by demons. And they claim to have been trapped aeons ago. So long ago that their people might not have had Paragons or castes. That’s just bizarre.

So then I wonder – which came first?

Of all the societies in Thedas, I would say the dwarves most resemble the Qunari. They live by a religion that doesn’t care very much about gods or the Fade – although of course it has its own kind of mysticism. They have a rigid social structure in which everybody is expected to play a particular role – and woe betide anyone who has dreams of their own. They are intensely isolationist, and they are scientifically advanced. The details differ, of course. But the framework is the same.

The Qunari are utterly terrified of their mages – maybe even more so than the Chantry. Dwarves just don’t have any. Maybe they were more efficient at getting rid of them.

Then I think thematically. Dragon Age 2 is largely about the desperate things people do when they feel trapped, from the small-scale stories of Hawke’s friends to the large-scale fate of the world. It’s unfortunate that it’s a little light on the plight of the elves, but given how unfocused Inquisition was, perhaps it’s a good thing they decided to hone in on the plight of the mages.

In Kirkwall, some mages – like Orsino – choose to become monsters because they can see no other way to keep fighting. Some, like Evelina, become monsters because they are too frightened to think rationally. It’s not a question of blame. If you push people to breaking point, sometimes they break in ways that are … let’s say unpleasant for the people who are hurting them.

But I do rather wonder if we just found more imprisoned mages. They are profane. Cursed. Saarebas. The idea gets around.

Now, it’s worth backing up a minute. Lyrium is, after all, supposed to be very bad for mages – even worse than it is for an ordinary person,  and it’s pretty awful for an ordinary person. But that assumes the Profane initially consumed raw lyrium. They may have done no such thing. Lyrium had religious significance for these dwarves, they may well have known how to prepare it. It is suggested that these dwarves are unique. By this point they are no longer flesh and blood, so the old rules don’t apply.

It’s also hard to timeline such creatures, but past a certain point I’m not willing to try. They are from very long ago, when the world was different.

Mind blown.

What more, this theory makes every bit of sense. That dwarves systematically went around imprisoning and condemning their mages within abandoned areas of the Deep Roads for what ever reason that came about. Not because mage oppression reasons (aka: “oh no it’s everywhere”…even though it is), rather because of all the evidence given to us in that Thaig.

Not to mention Sandal who was left alone in an isolated, abandoned Thaig (mind you one filled with glorious mosaics that further the idea of elves and dwarves sharing magic, from WoT2) as well, most likely addled from lyrium that he no doubt was forced to live off too and showing every bit of the signs to being a mage himself.

There are several references to darkspawn using blood and/or the taint to power their magic. Avernus (from The Warden’s Keep DLC) reveals that through his research he’s found a way of using the taint in Grey Wardens to cast powerful magic without the use of Lyrium or spirits–thus without connection to the Fade. First Enchanter Remille–who worked with The Architect–states that darkspawn do indeed possess a different type of magic that is fueled by the taint. During the Fourth Blight, Isseya saw the Archedemon Andoral release a vortex that was described as being of magic but having no connection to the Fade. 

It’s clear that the darkspawn and genlocks use a kind of magic powered by the taint alone and that a connection to the Fade is not needed. The taint is powerful enough that it appears to bestow a species–the dwarves– that is both magic resistant and has no connection to the Fade the ability to use a form of magic. Yet, what we have yet to see is a creature or species that’s never performed magic perform magic after being tainted. In other words, we’ve never seen a wolf, mabari, bear or any other creature use magic once it’s contracted the blight. 

What I believe is happening is that due to the dwarves having once had and subsequently lost the ability to use magic, the taint is able to awaken a lost ability in the genlocks.  

The dwarves as we know them have no connection to the Fade and thus cannot cast spells in the usual manner. However, once they are genlocks, they can access the power of the taint in their blood to cast magic completely independent from the Fade. The dwarves have always had the ability to use magic, they just can’t use magic that depends upon the Fade; for one reason or another (and there are several theories that attempt to explain this). 

Personal Note: I think the dwarves are painfully overlooked in the grand scheme of things. There is a lot going on with them that is mysterious and/or strange. From Kal-Sharok and how a human merchant perceived an interaction with a citizen; “I lived through a time of Blight. I’ve felt the gaze of a Grey Warden and seen the corruption of his prey. Why I remembered both in that moment, I still can’t explain.” [X] To their connection to Lyrium and The Stone. 

the fen’harel/shartan/solas, mythal/andraste/flemeth theory 1, 2, 3, 4

the qunari were created from (tevinter) experiments involving elves and dragon blood 1, 2, 3

the blights were originally caused by the dwarves not magisters, dwarves used to have a connection to the fade like other races, connection between dwarves and red lyrium and the blight (we know that lyrium is alive!!! and red lyrium is lyrium that has contracted the blight, yet red lyrium predates the darkspawn) 1, 2, 3 (the first half of this post)

the veil didn’t always exist 1

the veil was originally created by solas, and the elven artifacts you activate to “strengthen the veil” actually weaken it 1 (click show to read the theory)

corypheus wasn’t actually trying to enter the fade 1, 2

the forgotten ones = the old gods 1

sandal’s prophecy in da2 is about solas (rather than corypheus/the elder one, a theory from before inquisition came out) 1

the “golden” city was corrupted/tainted/contracted the blight and became the black city before the magisters entered it (or tried to) (i can’t find any posts/videos about this one but i definitely remember reading about it somewhere) (also this could tie into the blights being caused by the dwarves theory)