it didn't sing, it didn't dance

but i do question the like. like which character in da2 is easier to engage with. why. bc typically if i see a da2 character being extolled as Correct and Virtuous it's bc everything uncomfortable abt them has been flattened. femicide. racism. collaboration. the characters that popped into your head when you read those things might be the same ones i have in mind, they might not be.

the thing that consistently bothers me abt these conversations is carver, and that's at least partially due to my own brother baggage, but like. i agree w aveline.

Carver: Did you approve my application? Aveline: I can't make you a guard, Carver. Carver: We were both soldiers. Why won't they take me? Aveline: I was an officer. And I follow orders. Carver: (Laughs) No you don't. Aveline: I also think of others before myself. You seem tired of that, and that's dangerous. Carver: Just when it's not my choice. You told them not to take me, didn't you? Aveline: Yes.

there was a post going around somewhere that i can't find now that makes the extremely prescient point that most ppl assume carver is default white. quite frankly the game assumes carver is default white. and there is a much, much different vibe to this dialogue when it is a white woman in charge deliberately sabotaging a marginalized man.

but when aveline and carver are on relatively equal footing, this is like. i'm sorry, it's a fucking nonissue. me personally no i don't want carver in a position of power. he's not disciplined. he takes his ego out on others.

Anders: Nice day to be planning a trip into the Deep Roads, don't you think? Anders: The Blight, the dampness, the festering darkness filled with tainted rats... Carver: Shut up. Anders: You've got a real chip on your shoulder, you know? Carver: I've got a big blade on my shoulder, magey. Anders: Right. Wonder what you're compensating for.

jumping to threats of physical violence bc some guy was literally just trying to make conversation is not fucking good! i'm not saying anders isn't annoying: he is!!!!! i'm saying when a guy is annoying, you go 'you are so fucking annoying.' you don't microaggress them while threatening violence.

aveline does this, too, btw, w isabela. in both instances, it's someone punching down bc of a knee-jerk emotional reaction — isabela and anders are both more vulnerable than aveline and carver, respectively. anders and isabela might deliberately provoke the ppl around them to get a response, but i don't think 'i'll give you a sore spot' or 'i've got a big blade on my shoulder' are appropriate responses.

all four of them are, interestingly to me, fereldan refugees, altho i admit i'm stretching that a bit w isabela. isabela is certainly a refugee ig, if not a specifically fereldan one.

anyway, what i want to highlight here is that if aveline is a cop, then carver wants to be a cop. the 'bad apples' narrative abt policing says that cops could be good if we just kept all the violent assholes out of the force, eliding the fact that the it's the 'violent assholes' profession. either way, not the point. carver wants to be a cop. carver wants to wield institutional power over other ppl bc he feels powerless and in his sibling's shadow — carver is already doing that w the limited power he has.

if hawke doesn't take him on the expedition, he becomes a religious cop. he says he has concerns abt some of the 'extreme elements' (oh no the bad apples) within the order but he also says he's 'found [his] place'.

It's not a perfect job, though. I don't really like what we do to mages, but do we have a choice? It keeps everyone safe, and it's better than the alternative. Many mages understand that we're trying to help, even if our methods could use improvement.

this is batshit. this is a batshit thing to say to your marginalized loved one who has come home to find out that you joined the ppl hunting you down, who tried to hunt your father and sister down. bc here's the second part of my deal: if carver is alive, your hawke always exists at more intersections of marginalization than he does. that's how the game is set up. you cannot get around that.

i rly. rly need to underline. that he tells hawke, an apostate mage, 'many mages understand that we're trying to help'. can we agree that the most charitable interpretation of that is a breathtaking tactlessness?

and i will say that one thing ppl v rarely talk abt wrt carver is that there are versions of him that are fine w it if your hawke decides to help annul the circle. if he's a warden and you side w the templars, he explodes at you — that part ppl will bring up. but if he's a templar? maybe his voice actor chooses to flavor 'it's . . . good' w some reticence. but if he chooses to be a templar — if he chooses to join institutional power — he sides w institutional power, and he does so as someone who benefits from it.

aveline, meanwhile, mirrors fenris wrt helping hawke if hawke decides to side w the mages. there are conditions that, if not met, will require hawke to ask again for her to join them if aveline doesn't immediately agree to help. but tbh, beat for beat, aveline makes the same stand that fenris does with one crucial exception: if hawke doesn't have the approval to convince fenris to join them on the second try, hawke has to fight fenris to the death. aveline refuses to fight at all.

the wiki says that aveline resigns, which is the vibe but never explicitly stated in the cut scene? relying on youtube. whatever the case, she drops her sword and the guardsmen leave w her.

and like. my favorite part of da2 is that it is possible that characters will take a stand against hawke. sometimes w the approval system they'll just go along reluctantly, but to me? aveline getting to wrestle w her complicity and devotion to 'duty' is sexy. being forced to put aside all of her compartmentalized, unrealistic, unhealthy loyalty to 'order' bc she can't, at the end of the day, ignore her own personal feelings is a pressure cooker moment i rly enjoy.

carver will also refuse to fight hawke on meredith's orders....................................the same way cullen will refuse. at the v last second.

what i'm saying is that carver is often used as a sort of neutral bullet point in a list of aveline's deficiencies, but in fact, he shares a lot of those deficiencies — he can be a p potent example of what choosing institutions over ppl means. players, at least in my corner of tumblr, don't seem to frequently pick the options that make those deficiencies undeniable (tbf neither do i! i'm hanging out w bethany p much every playthru), but then, every playthru i've done, aveline has agreed to side w the mages without hesitation. it's not nearly as tricky to net her required approval as it can be w fenris if you're playing pro-mage.

i also. idk. i think there are absolutely real world resonances and also i think the game wants those resonances to be there even tho the game does not see policing the way i do. aveline's friendship-exclusive ability is called 'serve and protect.' i am in no way denying that the guards aren't invoking cops, aveline in particular. for that matter, i'm not denying aveline's culpability in the act 2 crisis: as in real life, her adherence to institutionalized racism and misogyny has nightmarish consequences for the ppl she is claiming to serve and protect.

but at the same time, i would still like to talk abt aveline, and to some extent, even tho i am a bethany enjoyer, carver.

and i think what's frustrating is that while i don't mind aveline and donnic getting together or even having hawke help aveline and donnic get together.........................i do mind that that is her act 2 'questioning beliefs' quest. the game does, when aveline is forced to acknowledge that her personal moral code does not line up w what she feels is her objective obligation to order, make aveline question her beliefs. the quest that's supposed to be abt that rly doesn't.

her act 3 questioning beliefs start w cullen sending a letter that says, in part, that her job is in danger bc:

She is accused of coddling her men and weakening law enforcement in this crucial time.

and the conclusion is either she's forced to quit bc the institution rejects her in favor of a corrupt man, or the guardsmen choose to be loyal to her. and a lot of this is contingent on whether she and donnic are married.

idk man idk. poor execution in a lot of ways but do we think aveline using her power as guard captain to do things like this:

Aveline: Thank you for that tip, Fenris. Fenris: You caught them, then? Aveline: Yes—a whole nest of slave runners working out of the Undercity. Fenris: I imagine you imprisoned them? Aveline: Sadly, they never made it to prison. Fenris: You always know how to make me smile, Aveline.

might have smth to do w cullen saying she's accused of undermining the guard's authority?

yes, these ppl are slavers. i'm still gonna be annoying and say that aveline using her position as guard captain to extrajudicially murder ppl on behalf of a friend isn't not corrupt, even when i agree w the end result.

here is where it is most egregious and fascinating to me:

in ISABELA'S act 3 questioning beliefs quest, isabela finds documents that prove castillon is expanding his slaving/human trafficking, so again we're dealing w a p cut and dry moral question. if you convince bela not to use them as leverage and just kill castillon, it results is +5 disapproval from aveline. if you let isabela use the documents as leverage, which leads to a slaver going free, aveline gives you +10 approval points, the most out of everyone. however you feel abt the writing choice, isabela's preferred route is to blackmail castillon. she and aveline are aligned. they're intended to be aligned.

varric reacts similarly to aveline, tho his approval/disapproval stays at +5 either way. this to me reads as his accustomed preference for stability. +5 anything in da2 feels kind of like a throwaway tbh.

but aveline's reaction is abt more than keeping the peace, which is reflected in the slightly increased level of investment indicated by that +10. if you as hawke choose to kill castillon, when isabela complains that now she can't use the documents, aveline jumps in to say that yes, actually, she can.

and so my interpretation is that this is abt aveline prioritizing her relationship w bela over her principles. she's not killing slavers for fenris bc she believes it's the right thing to do, or at least not primarily: she's killing them bc aveline's conflict is abt when her personal connections clash w her duty — and a lot of the time (i would argue most of the time!!!!!), even and esp when she clings to a mask of impartial duty, her relationships win out.

maybe that's the layer of her relationship w donnic that compels me even as some of the writing leaves me cold. she takes the risk of rly publicly choosing a relationship she wants over protocol — and donnic chooses to see her as not her role, but a person. and so it is maybe easier for the rest of the guardsmen to choose aveline as a person when it's between her and jeven. which is, i think, what aveline actually wants.

Fenris: You do not like your name? Aveline: My name is a wish my father made. And I did want to be a knight, but... Fenris: I see. Still, it's a good name. A strong name. Aveline: What were you named after? Fenris: I don't know my real name. My master called me Fenris, his "little wolf." Aveline: Could you not call yourself something different now? Fenris: Couldn't you? Aveline: A fine point.

yes, she wanted to be a knight but not at the cost of only being a knight. i don't think fenris is teaching her a lesson abt identity here, bc he doesn't change his name either — he's commiserating, and it comforts aveline to have someone who understands what it's like to have a role subsume your whole life, even if their circumstances are wildly, wildly disparate. if aveline were to 'call herself something different', who would respect that?